« Kiper: No shutdown corners in this draft | Main | Sunday column: Pats, Dolphins still racing »

Tale of tape: Goodman vs. Green

The addition of veteran cornerback Eric Green gives the Dolphins a fallback position -- a player with starting NFL experience -- if their plans with a rookie draftee or Nate Jones or Jason Allen or someone else somehow falls through.

But we know that mostly Green was necessary because the Dolphins lost their starting cornerback of the past few years -- Andre' Goodman -- in free agency. Goodman signed with Denver.

So the natural question is have the Dolphins upgraded, downgraded or broken even in basically exchanging Green for Goodman? It is impossible to know for sure until we actually see Green play and compare that to what Goodman did for Miami last season and continues doing in Denver.

But let's compare the players and their histories to, as Nick Saban would say, get a predictor of their future performance:

MEASURABLES: Green is 26 years old. He is 5-11 and 196 pounds. Goodman is 30 years old. He is 5-10 and 190 pounds. ADVANTAGE: Green. He's bigger and younger.

PRODUCTION: The past three years Goodman has played 44 games. He had seven interceptions, 26 passes defensed, 101 total tackles and two forced fumbles. Green has played 39 games. He had one interception, 26 passes defensed, 127 total tackles, and one forced fumble. ADVANTAGE: Goodman. Although Green has been a bigger producer in run support, Goodman's early 2008 slump didn't erase the fact he was productive against the passing game and later in the year became a turnover threat when attacked too often.

PROJECTION: According to one pro scout, who always takes my call God bless him, Green is probably the better athlete in that he has better speed and won't get overmatched as often as Goodman can against big receivers. But the same scout says Goodman is a better technician, has greater instincts, and has shown better overall balance than Green. The scout said Goodman has a reputation for playing even when he's not 100 percent healthy while Green has not played very well when playing hurt. ADVANTAGE: Goodman. The scout said he would grade Goodman a 65 player while grading Green a 63.

Obviously this is only one man's opinion. Beyond that, the statistics speak to what has happened rather than what is about to happen. One area that must also be taken into account is the contract Green got.

That is not available yet. If Green signed for bargain money, that works in Green's favor because Goodman didn't come cheap. Goodman signed for five years and $25 million with $10 million in guarantees. If Green signed for less than that, he pulls ahead in this comparison.

If Green's contract is comparable,however, then the fact Goodman is slightly better in pass defense and has more experience in Miami's system gives him a small edge over Green's youth, superior overall athleticism and potential.

  

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d83451b26169e201127964e2f128a4

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Tale of tape: Goodman vs. Green:

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

The move slowes the leak but I'm not doing back flips. Something is better than nothing.

Okay break even pretty much. I do not see how Green isn't currently the starter. A rookie is unlikely to start on a Parcells team (can and does happen, but at corner? Much less likely). Jason Allen and Nate Jones are nickelbacks - that's it. J. Allen has shown flashes of brilliance and I still think could become a solid corner (really he is somewhere between a corner and a safety though and that has been the issue) if he got enough reps - but that inconsistency could really hurt the team while we wait for him to get it.

In short, Green is the starter opposite W. Allen unless they sign someone else (Lucas is unlikely). That said I don't think Green is all that good. The fact that he was benched by the worst Pass defense in the NFL doesn't say much. Coach him up, teach him how to catch and maybe he's solid enough. Gotta love the hair though.

Youth and potential is always better IMO.

ive never been sold 100% on goody, hes a decent player but the stats aren't much different. greene is younger and doesn't have to be coached in winning philosophies, only in technique. so i'll wait to see what they do in the draft because with an improved pass rush we now can be dangerous with the safeties we have.

STOP REFERENCING NICKI SABAN!!!

Cool article Mando... Now do the same comparison with Satele and our new center. I STILL don't know anything about him..

If you're bored, do the same thing with Wilson and Hill as well..

Our apologies to your wife is she gets Mando withdrawals, but we need the info!!

A few weeks earlier I had gotten excited for what I called an Epic Battle in Dolphins history. The Joe Berger Andy Alleman battle. And just when I thought life couldn't get any better, Armando you break this news to me? Ladies and gentleman, lets mentally prepare ourselves for whats about to go down in minicamp over in Davie. Eric Green vs. Scorpio Babers! Armando keep the good news coming brother, I love this stuff!

If we look at comparing Green and Goodman based on their first 4 seasons which is all Green has under his belt, it's a different perspective.

Green - 51 games, 168 tackles, 31 PD, 2 FF and 2 INT. He also blocked 4 kicks.

Goodman - 43 games, 132 tackles, 28 PD, 1 FF and 5 INT. Not sure if he ever blocked any kicks.

Green could still get better just like Goodman improved him game and is probably playing his best ball right now. However he'll be 31 this year and Green just turns 27 this month. Green might have some upside. Goodman has probably maxed out.

Parcells and Ireland are not going to build this team with the 30 something club. All the free agents they signed including Carey and Crowder are all under 30. Bell was the exception.

Green would still be on the Cards if it wasn't for the emergence of Rodgers-Cromartie who over took his spot.
Hopefully we signed Green for no more than 3-4yr/$10-13mil $4-6mil guaranteed.

Green will turn 27 next week, he is a 5'11' / 194 Va Tech product that may regain starter status, even become solid starter with Bowles coaching him up, and with our now stellar safeties helping out.

Remember that a great Front 7 & Safety core will make the corners job a lot easier.

Folks this draft is SOoo wide open now for the trifecta to continue to build this team at any position it chooses with young play makers and solid future NFL football players.
We can now draft without reaching for anybody, maybe even trade back in a certain spot to pick up an extra pick.
Or package up a player and/or some late picks to gain an extra Day 1 pick.

You gotta love what the trifecta has done to make their upcoming Draft wide open and in their favor!

GetterDone Phins

A rookie starting at CB is no way shape or form out of the question. Although I think the 1st pick will be used on some where on the defensive front seven, Miami has shown that if a player displays some kind of play making ability they will be given a chance to prove themselves in a real game situation as shown with Donald Thomas, Davone Bess and Brandon London. The defense Miami plays is also set up towards the front seven putting pressure on the QB than the CBs making plays.

How can you grade potential? Green is 26 and has a chance to be much better then goody. I like Goody but we have seen what he can and can't do in our system. Lets see what green can do.

Kudos’ to the ice in the veins Tribunal, for pulling off the CB Green signing.
Not a word to be found on the web about this player acquisition coming down the pike. Good article Armando it was the first thing that came to mind when I read of the signing Goodman vs. Green.
I’m assuming it was a home town discount value orientated deal; I’ll be surprised if otherwise. Harvey Fialkov had given the Dolphins had a B grade for the Free Agent off season when comparing the AFC East teams. I assume the Dolphin grade is now raised to a B+ at least. Of course it remains to be seen what the real deal in the won and lost column tallies up to. I don’t remember how long it’s been since the upcoming draft has seemed this wide open to drafting the best player on the board for the Miami Dolphins. In the last 5 years it seemed like the Draft Demon had his hands around the Dolphins throat, choking the franchise for picks for QB’s, Running Backs, Offensive Line help etc etc. Then when you go back and count the undrafted ghost players that were swapped for FA’s Dante Cullpeper, Joey Galloway, and A.J. Feely. The upcoming draft has a sense of freedom from the past mistakes. Good Job Miami!

If the scouts grade out Goodman at 65 and Green at 63 then the upside to this is who has better value. Based on what Goodman got in Denver and the Dolphins unwilling to pay him the 5years/25mil with 10million signing bonus you have to believe that the Dolphins have signed green for less and thus the value goes to Green and also the winner.

Green has so far been average to bad, if you talk to Cardinal fans. Maybe good coaching will turn his career around, But, I am betting Jason Allen has the potential to be better than Green, and am hoping he will step it up. Nobody knows at this point, but I am highly skeptical Green will be the answer.

oh god!hopely not overpaid again please!

Mando, I agree with Robbie -please do this comparrison with Satele vs. Grove. I just don't see much of a difference except that Satele is healthier. I'd say advantage Satele. BUT oyu have the contacts and can do the comparison.

Steve - it usually takes 2 -3 years for a good rookie CB to actually learn the nuances of the NFL game, your note of the style of defense notwithstanding - do you agree?

Green is not the answer and the Trifecta knows this they are just opening up more options on draft day.

We did what we had to do in free agency. The draft is where this team will improve.

I agree with earlier poster who referred to Green's big value as in his potential (i.e. his upside). I think coupled with his age and compared to Goody's upside, Green wins by a mile especially given the magic that Bowles worked with the DBs last year. According to 'mando, all Bowles needs to do is coach up Green's discipline and decision making on the field and he improves big time.

As to what this signing does for the draft? Last week I would've said "it opens it up BIG TIME for 'phins to take Pettigrew at no. 25" but I think I'm gonna settle down and accept the reality that even though we're the AFC East champs, we still need to think in terms of going through New England (namely Brady) in order to get there again. Besides, defense wins championships,right? So, at no. 25, with Green in hand, I say go for the best pass rusher available- Cushing, Clay Matthews and Maybin are all hovering around that no. 25 spot at Scout.com.

Go with Sean Smith (if he slips), D. Butler or J. Byrd at no. 44 and I say at no. 56 take either DT Fili Moala USC or DT R Brace.

to continue my last post, I'd just like to add that with field position provided by the 'phins defense (improved by first 3 picks of '09 draft) and the offense improved by linemen and a new WR in 4th round of '09 draft, 'phins should be well equipped to give themselves the best chance to win more games.

I said earlier that I think the Dolphins still might fish for a CB in the draft. I'd be hard pressed to think that the Dolphins are actually considering one for their first pick now, though, but who knows. I'd still like to see Darius Butler in aqua and orange, but we'll see on draft day. Maybe this opens up the opportunity for a WR, or an offensive playmaker.

Quote from larry: "greene is younger and doesn't have to be coached in winning philosophies, only in technique"

What the heck does that mean? Coached in winning philosophies? What kind of green cool-aid have you been drinking. Besides, Green lost his job later in the season and didn't sniff the playoffs, first because of injury and second because Rodgers-Cromartie just played better once he was there. (This is when Arizona did most of its Winning and probably coincidentally coincided with when the coaching staff starting teaching players the "winning philosophy" techniques.)

Why does sports discussion for so many mean logic has to go out of the window? Please anyone, Dan Le Batard, help me out.

New rule.

Thinking the Dolphins still might go CB in the draft, and especially early, is not insight. Its repeating the obvious.

Brace and Moala will be gone by 56, instead trade Ginn for a 1st or 2nd rounder and grab Brace. Then get cb Sean Smith, take Hakeem Nicks or Kenny Brit with our Ginn traded pick. Last pick day one go after Gerald Mcgrath 6-3 runs 4.6/40 and they say is a tackling machine.

I LOVE THE MOVE. IT'S NOT THE TOP ANSWER BUT IT IS A PRETTY GOOD ANSWER. IN OUR DEFENSE SYSTEM (ARMANDO CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG HERE) WE DON'T NEED SHUTDOWN CORNERS WE ARE A BLITZ HAPPY TEAM SO WE NEED AGGRESSIVE CORNERS TO "STAB" AND "JAM" THE RECIEVERS AT THE LINE AND KEEP WITHIN THAT 5 YARDS REGION FOR A WHILE. GREEN IS 5'11 BUT PLAYS TALLER AND TOUGHER THAN MOST DB'S. I DON'T THINK HE'S THE TYPE TO PICK QB'S OFF THOUGH BUT HE CAN KEEP THE BALL AWAY FROM THE RECIEVER.

No matter what, please do not quote Saban again!!!

Jason Ferguson will be turning 34 years old and maybe looking at his last season with the Dolphins which tells me that Ron Brace would make all the sense in the world.

JimmyJam, Just because a player is a rookie you don't discount them based on their inexperience. There has been rookie corners that have stepped in and held their own before. Just because a system is complex dose not mean a player can not pick it up with a great amount of effort. If a guy shows he wants the job its the coach's job to give him that opportunity.

losing goodman was a major mistake and will haunt this franchise next year.

Excellent report Armando! I can't say that I'm really excited about this but I do feel a bit better about our CB situation especially considering the TO signing.

Green is no upgrade, he is an insurance policy in case we don't land a play making cb in the draft. Lets put it this way. The Cardinals had Green going in to last year and they felt the need to draft a cb in the 1st round. Green could not stay on the field all the time and he clearly was not in the Cardinal's future despite being young and athletic. Goodman may not have been as young or as athletic but he is a better cb than Green has ever been. Goodman gave up some big plays early on last year but he also made a lot of big plays last year. Green has never been a play maker. Goodman is better and we still need to draft a cb high in the draft.

Great job Armando. That was a great read with lots of info. Thank you for doing the footwork on the stats and comparisons.

Be selfish , how's the magic of bowles worked for Jason Allen so far ? Also green wins by a MILE based on potential ? Green has been in the league 4 or 5 years already. How much better is going to get and how much longer can you grade this player on potential ?

I've been called "crazy" for saying this, but Goodman sukkkked... Green will be much better than him in 2009. don't criticize me now, let's bring this topic some time amid the regular season...

YOUNGER AND FASTER BABY!
keep em coming Parcells.

I still say satele and grove to guard and get one of the top rated centers with the first 2nd round pick. 1st round best talent available any position. Roboskie/big reciever or a corner with last 2nd rounder. I would go with robo and give Allen a season to break out or bust.

Goodman was four years more experienced than Green during Mondo's comparison period and Goodman only really peaked when the current coaching staff worked with him.

Let's see what that coaching staff can do for a better athlete in Green.

give mccalister a nice 3 yr contract with the second being teams option (if he plays good we pick it up)3rd being player option( if he feels he is worth more he can leave). he has earned it and i feel he has enough left there is NO kid in college that can do we he can RIGHT NOW. buys dolphins a year or 2. we need his skills to ATLEAST counter T.O. and Randy then have pitbull bell smack any who dare go up the middle. he is as old as champ bailey and we would all love if he can get champ.

Tuna needs to look at Victor (Macho) Harris from Virginia Tech with our late second round pick or third round pick. I saw this kid play alot in the ACC and he can flat out cover people. I don't remember ever seeing him get burned deep and he's a ball hawk. As far as receiver goes, everyone is high on Nicks from UNC. However, he was only the second best receiver on his own team. The "Tate" kid was by far the better playmaker and a more dangerous receiver until he got hurt. He was also one of the fastest players in college last year.

well adam w, to answer your question about technique and winning philosophy training, its alot easier to teach technique to someone who comes from a winning program than to teach people who are in losing programs technique and a philosophy on winning. the philosophy is there, just the skills that need to be coached up. its simple, players will pay more attention to learning from coaches who are successful than those who are losers.

We could say the same things bout Green as another teams fans would post about Allen on their site. This is a competition guy. Allen and Green are both fighting for the same spot. Best man wins. Does that mean we win?

ok guys everybody that is saying green sucks is way wrong he is just in the wrong deffensive system out in arizona! green never was a shutdown corner and that was what he was suppost to be out in arizona! because the cards were a zone deffense team forcing him to be a shutdown corner man up on the guy all night which is very hard to do and u need alot of skills to do that and there are only a very few shutdown corners in this league that can do that! if u don't get what i'nm saying i will tell u an example! ok u remeber when joey porter was in a 3-4 deffense with pittsburg playing weak outside lineback! and performed very well and just had amazing stats every year! then he came to the dolphins signed a big contract and started out in the 4-3 deffense as outside linebacker! and did not do a damn thing and everybody said he sucked and was old and done and we needed to cut him! then they changed the deffense and we went to a 3-4 deffense when saparno and parcells came in last year and we put him back at his hybrid postion at weak outside lineback in the 3-4 deffensive scheme! which is what he does and he just blown up the league with sacks all day and night! he just tore it up! now do u know why it is because when u play in a 3-4 deffense at weak outside linebacker u stand up on the outside and u rush the passer u blitz u move up and cover the runningback from running in the lanes when he get's the ball. u also sometimes put your hands in the dirt and play DE u move around alot! now when u play in the 4-3 deffense u never put your hand in the dirt as a DE u also never really blitz the QB except maybe 5 percent of the time! when they usually do a linebacker blitz it's usually the middle linebacker in the 4-3 deffense! also the weak outside linebacker drops back into coverage alot like 90 percent of the time in the 4-3 deffense that is why u did not produce what so ever because he never played in the deffensive scheme and a OLB does not put up big numbers in a 4-3 deffense! a OLB in a 4-3 is basically used for tackling and going into coverage and breaking up passes or trying to intercept passes and stoping the run when they are in the nickle formation on a run blitz! so it's basically the same for eric green from the cards he is a cornerback that plays bump and run he plays man up alot he is good at that he likes to bump them and make them not get off the line of scrimmage he likes to hit them and put them on there butt! also he is not a zone coverage CB like arizona wanted him to be! so the miami dolphins is the right team for him to be on! this is why the dolphins signed him they know what they are doing they know what kind of corner he is! now don't get me wrong i'm not saying that eric green is going to come to the dolphins and become the next patrick surtain or sam madison! u know back in there prime when they played for the dolphins back in 2002! but green is going to come in and become a dang good corner! he is going to have the best year of his career next year when he plays for the dolphins because he will be in a system that best fits him and that he loves to play in! so look for him to have like over 5 int's next year and to have a great year! also he will ne a damn good #2 corner next year for the dolphins! he might not be a #1 corner in the NFL but he sure is a damn good #2 starting CB in the NFL! i think he is in the top 3 #2 corners in the NFL! as for a starting #1 corner in the NFL he probly ain't in the top 10! but he for sure is in the top 3 for being the top #2 cornerback in the NFL! so what does everybody think?

Tuna helper,
I happen to think that Brooks Foster will be the UNC steal over both his teammates. He has mad skills, tho is a tad raw, but bigger and faster than both. He can be had early in early half of Day2 IMO.

As for Macho Harris, he is solid all the way around. I'm a lil concerned where I see scouts calling him best suited for a Cover 2 system. If so, is he then worth a 2-3rd pick?

For Day 2 CB's 4th rd. on> I like, Mark Parson, Glover Quin, Kevin Barnes, DeAngelo Smith or Joe Burnett, pretty much in that order, give or take a big Pro Day showing...lol

Armando.....Experience is everything. Once Green has the experience when he gets to the age of 30 he may well be much better than Goodman so he has a big upside especially with the brain trust the Phins have.....get ready for an LB or DT in the draft..............

Uh hey Rob, Paragraphs my man, paragraphs!!!

Hey rob , i don't know what's longer ? War and peace or your post. LOL .

Getterdone . macho harris is a cover 2 corner all the way. His lack of speed is the big reason. He'd be perfect in tampa , but not miami

nj phin fan,
I wouldn't go so far as to say Harris is a cover 2 guy "all the way".
He is slow on the clock but from the Va Tech games I watched he plays quick to the ball and has excellent instincts that made him such a good playmaker, plus he can flat out tackle unlike a lot of CB's.
He is very physical against the run and on the line too.

Is he worth a late 2nd or 3rd Rd pick? Could he end up a safety?

But I wouldn't count him out as a Miami pick just yet depending on where he falls and who is on the board at the time.
He can definitely jam receivers at the line, is a ball hawk, and is a punishing hitter that Tuna or anyone would like.

But hopefully we already have that in the other young Va Tech product with Green once he learns our system.

Measure Of the type huh, well he you go, the tuna size 63, tony s, size 54 the menace 34....

Are we younger with potential upside? Yes we are therefor a smart decision by the Trifecta. I don't see a lot of difference except in the INT/s. I do like a guy that can tackle. Goodman was a little suspect on that. We are one pass rusher away from making Green look real good.

Green is a vet. Now Mando should be happy we signed some one. Here in Miami he will fulfill his potential you can count on it.
Cuban menace judging by your size it look like BIG tuna could crush you too. Your funny dude keep it going...just so you know Alex 56.

Nice article Armando. Very well put together and informative. Excellent non bias comparison.teach Hyde how to write like this

CardiacFins, your HUGE paragrgh says about 20 things that are completely inacurate.

Armando,
have you found out any details of this deal.

nj phin fan ,

you think Bowles is nothing special because he hasn't made Jason Allen a star? Talk about holding a guy to high standards, 4 different coaching regimes couldn't make Allen into a pro DB, you're gonna bust Bowles balls?

As to how much better can Green get, 'mando himself reported Green has the skills and the frame just needs help with consistency and decision making on field. That can be improved and therefore shows promise for large upside potential.

I'm only going by what I read. You evidently don't.................read!

"I'm just sayin', in a streetfight, my boy Jimmy Cagney would annihilate your boy Sylvester Stallone."

larry,

umm. Yeah. Okay, I'm just going to leave you alone in your bubble after this post, where logic doesn't seem to permeate.

And btw, I think Green is a good signing, but he has spent his whole career in the one of the most 'losing' franchises in NFL history, second only to the Lions. In 2005 they were 5-11, 2006 they were 5-11, 2007 they were 8-8. They were 9-7 this year, and he didn't play one snap in the playoffs, and barely played any of the last 8 games.

So not only is your 'winning philosophy' teaching flawed, (Though it doesn't hurt to come from a successful team, it doesn't mean than player x is still better than player y.), but even if your crazy idea was true, Eric Green never actually played for a truly successful/winning team (but for an organization known as perennial losers), and wasn't even on the active roster for the playoffs this year.

You've got a double double. A flawed idea to start, and a terrible application of it.

I'm glad you're a Dolphin fan, and enjoy following the sport. But I think you'd have more enjoyment and understanding of it if you'd lay off the cliches.

even though robs post was long he is 100% correct. when the right guy gets in the right system it works. as for tate toooooo injury prone. nicks is a healthy beast and will solidify the wr position for years. also i agree goody sucked, he got beat every time buy bigger wr and te. look at the houston game he got burned more then the califoria wild fires same thing in the az game. good bye to goody and hello green.

rob, your post is very long shows that you have no idea about the real football that i know .try to learn from my writing then you will understand football. fins going to suck this year no doubt .

Turd Ferguson, stick to football man ,it's not funny

1 2 3 4 5 »

The comments to this entry are closed.