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Kindle: A look beyond stats and 40 times

So now you know that Mike Mayock believes the Dolphins will draft outside linebacker candidate Sergio Kindle because he is rated No. 7 among the draft analyst's best players, and Miami needs a defensive playmaker, and all those great football reasons.

And that is dandy for an analyst looking purely at a player's skill set and matching them to a team's needs. But drafting for an NFL team is more than purely projecting whether a player can play a position or adjust to a scheme or has the physical prowess to perform.

NFL drafting is also about knowing the person, his habits, his character. And Mayock doesn't measure any of that which the Dolphins must absolutely measure before taking a gamble on anyone such as Kindle.

You see, Kindle, by all accounts a fine athlete, has had some off-field issues during his 22 years on the planet. And the Dolphins must and will collect data on those issues and include them in their evaluation of Kindle.

This isn't new. Every team does this. But for some reason, unless the issues are obvious, guys such as Mayock and Mel Kiper rarely account for them. They loved Rey Maualuga last year, but didn't say anything about the drinking problem that most teams were aware of. Not surprisingly, Maualuga, supremely talented, had a drunk driving incident in January and then reportedly checked himself into a alcohol rebabilitation center.

Now you understand why he didn't go higher in the 2009 draft?

Kindle's current state of mind and character is for NFL teams to judge now. But I can tell you he's had trouble before that Mayock didnt mention in speaking about him Tuesday on a national conference call.

In July of 2007, when Kindle was a sophomore, he was arrested for DWI. He was suspended for the first three games of the season and had to perform community service.

In June of 2009, just prior to Kindle's final season at Texas, he was involved in a car accident in which he drove his car into an apartment building at 2:50 in the morning on a Wednesday. Kindle then got the help of some friends, pulled the car out of the wrecked apartment, and put it on the street.

Then Kindle fled the scene. Having suffered a concussion, his story is he was very tired and simply went home to sleep. Kindle claims there was no alcohol involved in this accident and that he was simply texting a coach when it happened.

(Um, show of hands in the comments section for anyone who totally buys this story.)

Kindle's car, by the way, was registered to his father: Johnny Walker.

I kid you not.

Anyway, even if you are a believer, you must wonder how Kindle would handle playing in a town like mine because we got a couple of places to party down here. Fact is, even people close to Kindle wonder if he should be playing in a town like Miami.

Kindle's high school coach Bobby Estes told the New York Times in January that he and his wife "cringe" at the idea of Kindle ending up in a city like Miami and are hopeful, instead, he ends up "in a cold-weather city so he would stay inside more."

“Is he Colt McCoy and Tim Tebow citing Scripture? No,” Estes said. “But I do know that he knows right from wrong. I hope he’s making mature choices."

Kindle told the newspaper stories about his reputation as a drinker and a partier don't worry him. He told the newspaper he's "not the Sergio of '06-'07," and is now "walking a straight line."

Well, it's up to NFL teams to find out if that "straight line" is one drawn by a cop during a field sobriety test.

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Posted by: FLPD | February 24, 2010 at 10:26 AM


Do you honestly think we think Miami will draft a player because Armando said so or it was one of his favorites?? Seriously? Aren't 2 or more humans allowed to like the same player for Miami's #12 pick.

Cmedeoro, put an ILB in the middle like Dansby and you have the kind of LB crew I like!!!

I for one don't want this guy. Too many red flags. I don't care if he's an elite player and pash rusher, he doesn't sound like a character guy. And Mayock is WAY off. There's not a chance that Parcells drafts this guy. He comes here and he ends up partying it up with Crowder.

I'm still convinced the guy to build the defence around is McClain. And all you guys who criticize him because he doesn't have the 'WOW' factor....that's just BS!! Thomas didn't have the WOW factor. Offerdahl didn't have the WOW factor. These were guys that showed up EVERY Sunday and strapped on the pads and gave it there all. They weren't distractions for the team and you coould rely on them. I don't get that feeling about Kindle.

The last time Miami took a Linebacker with a first round pick and coincidentally it was the 12th pick of the draft was in 1992 when they took 6'3" Georgia Tech standout Marco Coleman. Just after they took Troy Vincent at #7. In his first year with Miami Coleman won Rookie of the year with 6 sacks (3rd in the NFL) and 84 tackles. He was a great the entire time he played with Miami....A Total of 4 years... when he AND Troy Vincent were sent packing by Jimmy Johnson, Coleman endede his career in Denver in 2005. Vincent had a spectacular run in Philly ending his career in 2006 in Washington. You may be thinking "Who cares or so what" Point I am making is this. The #12 pick may be huge... but the guys who are likely going to have the longest term effect on this team will be taken in the 2nd through 7th rounds. Dwight Hollier was taken in the 4th round... a linebacker out of North Carolina, he as with Miami until 1999. We are all pounding salt about who the #12 pick is going to be... when time and history tell us that the players who will have the biggest effect over the longest period of time come from Rounds #3 Through Round #7 or later in past drafts... Here are some names from THOSE rounds....
1974 3rd round...Nat Moore...WR
1976 3rd round...Durial Harris...WR
1978 6th round...Doug Betters...DE
1978 3rd round...Jimmy Cefalo...WR
1979 9th round...Glenn Blackwood...DB
1979 7th round...Uwe Von Shaman...K
1980 7th round...Joe Rose...TE
1980 8th round...David Woodley...QB
1981 11th round...Jim (crash) Jenson...WR
1983 8th round...MARK CLAYTON...WR
1983 6th round... Reggie Roby...P
1988 9th round...Jeff Cross...DE
1988 3rd round...Ferrell Edmunds...TE
1989 8th round...Pete Stoyanovich...K
1989 5th round...Jeff Uhlenhake...C
1991 5th round...Brian Cox...LB
1992 4th round...Dwight Hollier...LB
1992 3rd round...Larry Webster...DE
1996 5th round...ZACK THOMAS...LB
1996 5th round...Shane Burton...DE
1997 3rd round...JASON TAYLOR...DE
1997 3rd round...Derrick Rogers...LB
2002 4th round...Randy McMichael...TE
2002 3rd round...Seth McKinney...C
2003 6th round...JEREMIAH BELL...DB
2005 3rd round...Channing Crowder...LB
2007 4th round...Paul Soliai...DT
2008 6th round...Lex Hilliard...RB
2008 6th round...Donald Thomas...G
2009 6th round...Andrew Gardner...T
2009 5th round...Chris Clemons...S
2009 4th round...Brian Hartline...WR

I left out many names... but my point is clear... the #12 over all pick is all great and wonderful. But, if you want to know who will likely be playing in Miami 5 years from now... start at around the 3rd round back. 80% of those taken before will take the Free Agent track right out of here in 4 years. I believe 7 years hence many will ask.. who the hell was it we drafted in 2010 in the first round? While his contemporaries taken in later rounds are still making plays and signing new contracts with Miami.

i think the short arm thing about Graham is largely over rated... i'd take him any day of the week over Kindle, and MAINLY on Sunday! i felt that way before i read about his drinking issues.. and even more so now!

Derek your post gave me a headache. And I don't care about 4 years from now. I care about going to the ship in 2010.

IMO Kindle is not someone I really want. I have put a ton of time looking into potential players, especially the hybrid rush type, and he does not overly impress me. He has regressed stat wise the last 2 years. Orakpo had a good year and I feel maybe people look into that. B Graham got better each year. I really like Jerry Hughes, and hope that he is around in the 2nd round. I would support Kindle if he is the pick, but am not hoping for that. And this is strictly on-field stuff.

some people say thats too high(12th) to take Graham. maybe so??? maybe not??? i dont know, but who am i... i'm just a fan, and i trust the Trifecta and the football people w/my favorite team!

graham or dan williams; not mclain or kindle!

Bobbyd, much easier to trade up to 12 than it would be to even 8 or 9. Also, I am for trading down, but not much past 20. I just think there are about 18 really good prospects, and then from about 20 to 50 it is a clump of guys who realistically be the 25th pick, or the 39th pick. We need an impact player IMO, and that will be found at 12 not much farther. I know Davis was 25 and smith 61, but while the depth is greater this year, I feel the better talent is at the top.

Mando,

I love when you get on here to talk smack. I dont like Kindle based off production. If he was so good, then wheres the stats? I dont care about off the field because W. Allen will still be in a Phins uniform and so was Starks after his issue.

Im still on the McClain bandwagon but Ill love whoever the trifecta pick. My only problem with Williams as the #12 is...he will be a work in progress and wont play much this year whereas McClain would start at least halfway through the season.

Bootang,

I like Jerry Hughes as well and think he would be a great pick in the second round. I'm still a little concerned of hwere our NT is going to come from. For a key position in the 3-4, there really aren't that many options out there for us. Rumour has it the kid from SF (NT) could be had for a first round pick. I don't know an awful lot about him but it's something I might consider if we were looking at next year's number one. Thoughts?

Funny I was checking out the ESPN AFC east blog and seeing who all the mock drafts had us taking - I saw they had Universal Draft up there(they do stuff for the other newspaper and I don't mean the one in Palm Beach) so I went and checked out their mock. They have us taking Derrick Morgan - which I would be OK with if he shows he can play LB - but as the other options they mentioned Jerry Hughes, Ricky Sapp, and 6-5 300lb Defensive Tackle Jared Odrick as an Outside Linebacker prospect! Really? Cmon....

Well looks like the only impact players available at need positions that are realistically available (ie won't cost draft picks) are Dansby and Rolle. It's probably unrealistic to sign both. I love Dansby, but now that I think about it Rolle would probably be a better choice, because he'll fit a bigger need. Their 2 biggest needs, IMO, are OLB and NT in that order. I hope they pick a solid OLB with the first pick. Kindle? Graham? Pierre-Paul? Personally I don't enough about them to pick between them. I can only trust the trifecta will pick the best one on the board.

Hopefully there'll be a good NT available at #2. If so, then they can pick up a WR or TE with the third pick, or trade that pick to get

What do you guys/gals think?

Datajack,

I think Rolle is no better than Wilson. Dansby is much better than Ayodele. Just my opinion.

Derek in WPB,

I dont like your list at all. Why do you put new draftees when you are talking about impact over a career? Heres a small list of our biggest impact 1st rounders that lasted a while here. There are more that are lesser known that stayed here:


Dan Marino, Bokamper, Vern Carrey, OJ McDuffie, Richmond Webb, Tim Bowens, Louis Oliver, Larry Csonka, and Bob Griese. First rounders DO make a huge impact.

Doesn't matter if Grahams arms are a little short. He so quick he makes up for whatever he lacks in stature

Dwight Freeney had the same knocks against him as Graham coming out of college. I remember when Syracuse played UM and McKinnie shut down Freeney for 0 tackles and it looked like the scoutng report on Freeney's lack of height were accurate. However, Freeny has gone on to win a Super Bowl and been a franchise defender. I have no doubt Graham will do the same. I continue to hold Graham as my #2 OLB prospect behind Derrick Morgan. But Morgan can grow out of that position.

Mark in Toronto,

Freeney plays in a 4-3 as should Graham

Craig, I honestly have narrowed down my top 2 guys at 12 to Earl Thomas and Dan Williams. I think ILB is more along the lines of a need, as a guy like E Thomas covers TEs and hides some of our ILB weaknesses. Also, we still had 47 sacks last year, so OLB isn't as big a need IMO, factor in added pressure from Mike Nolan and I think we may have less sacks, but more turnovers forced. And it is a deep class at the hybrid pass rusher, so a guy like Cameron Sheffield may be available later than normal. To me, S and NT are our true must haves. Once big Ferg went down, we couldn't stop the run. And we got KILLED on big pass plays. If not Williams at 12, I like Cam Thomas at 44. Question is will he be there. If you gave me both Earl and Cam Thomas with the first 2 picks, I personally would do backflips (maybe not 13 like Pierre Paul, but a good number)

you guys as usual down in miami are going to be disappointed again with parcells draft. parcells picks who he likes solid football players. faceless to boot so if you think he's going to sign guys like dansby or rolle you delusional dolphin fans are in for a big disappointment!!!! i would'nt at all be surprised if he took a ot with his 1.st.rd pick. you people should just let parcells take his 5 year plan to build this team and stay quiet. you damn people don't half support this team anyways. everytime you wacth a game from miami it's always 50,000 fans of the visiting team there anyway. so just lay low dolfans what you delusional people do best and let parcells build his faceless football team his way.

Craig, a guy I am real interested in is Micah Johnson from Kentucky. Yes he is a big dropoff from the upper tier ILBs, but he got hidden on a bad Kentucky team. His injury in the bowl game probably hurt him a few rounds. He wasn't going to be a first anyway. From everything I gather, he will only be doing the medical and interview process at the combine, but he has been working out like crazy to try and do the drills. Will be interesting to see what happens between now and Monday.

bootang,

I see you have come to terms with your Earl Thomas issues ;)

Carlito, I can't imagine how awesome our secondary would be with Davis and Smith at CB, W Allen at the nickel, Thomas and Bell at S.

bootang,

I have also been on the Micah Johsnon bandwagon for a couple months, I'm glad you said that. I seen him train in person and he is very impressive and a huge dude! I really want to see the dolphins take him in the 3rd round range, I think this guy is a sleeper that could be great value

Bootang,

Micah Johnson, among others (including Dan Williams, Eric Berry, and Ricky Sapp), was training for the combine at the gym I go to with a company called xpe sports. Micah Johnson stood out above and beyond anyone else in the group while training and did not look injured. This guy is a true physical specimen, jut the type Bill Parcells loves to find in the mid-rounds.

Craig, here are names you won't hear a lot of that I think you should keep an eye on: Alex Carrington, Micah Johnson, Clay Harbor, Jared Veldheer, Torrell Troup, and Chad Jones. All guys who fit very well in what we do, and are football first, versatile guys.

Carlito, I remember you saying that. I think he is one of those guys, who had everything been the same, and he played at USC, would be a low first round pick. If you're playing Kentucky, which guy on their defense are you gameplanning around? And he lost most of his D Line after his junior year, which doesn't help matters. I really like this kid a lot.

I like Micah as well and Troup. There are a few NTs prospects beyond Williams lol. Thats what I love about Parcells. The guy finds gems that are hidden in bad or lower tier teams.

Carlito, actually Freeney's success should even be amplified by the success he's had in a 4-3 defence. The shorter arms become much more of a detriment when you are on the line of scrimmage against a LT. If you are in more space like an WOLB is, you have more opportunity to overcome the short arms by using spin techniques, leverage, etc.

BTW, Freeney would make an awesome OLB. So would Robert Mathis.

Mando,
You fear the possibility that we don't draft Graham, NE does draft him, and then we have to face him twice per year?
Well if we do draft him and NE drafts Kindle then don't we have to face Kindle twice/year?

In any case CJ Spillar is the correct draft choice. There are multiple, quality OLB's in every draft.
Every few years teams get one chance to draft a guy like CJ Spillar and those that pass it up regret it for a loooong time.

Isn't this kind of what everyone was saying about Vontae Davis coming out, that he had character issues? Just saying he seems OK so far.

Price,

If you want us on the Spiller bandwagon, should you spell his name right first? J/K

Mark in Toronto,

Just pointing out that you shouldn't discount the difficulty of switch positions.

Good read. Thanks. So is graham a saint?

Carlito, your gym is in the Miami area? Reason I ask is because Micah has said on his Twitter a few times about south beach, so I figured put 2 and 2 together, he's working out in Miami.

AK, most of the questions regarding Vontae were todo with his being coachable, a me first type guy. He didn't have any DUIs on his record.

Bootang,

Yep the gym I go to is in Delray Beach

I say if he is still available at #12 Miami should take Eric Berry from Tennessee. Wilson and Bell suck really bad. Bell didnt deserve to be in the pro bowl. He didnt make many big plays last season and got burned a lot. I think that would be their best bet and take a nose takle, DL, or LB from free agency and the later rounds in the draft.

J

Mostly old people, or high school kids at my gym lol. definately no football players. Would love if Parcells sent a nobody to go and talk to Micah and get an inside scoop.

I do remember Y Bell chasing down a few sure TDs after someone else messed up. Sure they were big plays on the offense, but at least once we got a turn over so the Bell play ended up saving a TD. (I think the other time the team got a FG - but am a bit fuzzy)

JJ - Bell sucks? Are you kidding me? That is a idiotic statement

Very good interview D McCluster had on First Take. A guy I'm definately intrigued by if he's around come the 3rd round.

Y Bell is underrated in my mind. If partnered with a good coverage S, Bell is very good against the run, and a good blitzer.

IMO Bell has been a solid player, especially in the last 2 years. If he is paired with a FS that can actually cover, this secondary could become dangerous

LipsinToronto - Example 1 --> DeAngelo Williams run down in the Carolina game in which a play or 2 later Delhomme (spelling?) threw an INT...

JJ - How many more big plays you want me to tell you Bell made? Was his 114 combined tackles, 3 INT's, 8 PDef, 1 1 1/2 sack not enough?

How critical was the media of Vontae Davis last year? They had similar character concerns about him and his work ethic. Then the Dolphins drafted him and everyone was so surprised because of that.

Apparently Kindle has made some mistakes, but the Dolphins brass will get to know him well enough to decide if he's someone they want on their team or not. And I'm sure his candor in those discussions will have a big impact on their decision.

I have a hard time believing they will draft anything but an OLB. When Bill was with the Cowboys, Merriman was the highly touted prospect, but they went with Ware. Now here we are picking around the same slot. Kindle seems to be the guy everyone's high on (I liked what I saw in the film from yesterday), but I could easily see them take Graham.

Hey Joe Momma,Go back to the 4Th grade.

Carlito, fact is all great 3-4 OLBs were DEs in college. Ware and Merriman made the switch quite comfortably early on in recent years. The switch from DE to OLB shouldn't be a concern. A high number of players do it seamlessly.

Hey sarasota cane how does it feel that my buckeyes are great and your canes STINK LIKE POOP.


Pat White needs Throwing Gloves. Please Draft CJ Spiller.

Matt in Toronto,

As you say "all great 3-4 OLBs were DEs in college" is mostly true, you have to look at it from both sides. All great college DE's do not become 3-4 OLB's. I know its not a concern to you, thats why Derrick Morgan and Brandon Graham are at the top of your wish-list, there's nothing wrong with that... they are both good players. But it is a concern to me, thats why they are not at the top of my list. The fact is all DE's can't become great quality OLBs in the 3-4, but it is the trifectas job (and specialty) to decide who can. I will trust whoever they take at LB.

OSU-Buckeye

What do marijuana and Ohio State have in common?


They both get smoked in bowls.

lol at Carlito, Buckeyes suck!!!!!! WOLVERINES!!!!!!!!!!!!

A few musings,

The Webster's Dictionary defines "Expert" as: Having, involving, or displaying special skill or knowledge derived from training or experience. Armando has posted that he was no "expert" but by definition he may be as much as the next guy. The "experience" anyone of us has gathered from watching and rewatching games / players over a long period of time may qualify. The definition does NOT say anything about getting paid for analysis.

bobbyd12 @ Soiled Bottom had some funny comments, thanks for the chuckles re: Kindle.

I wonder if the Fins could do the SAME thing they did last year to find WR Hartline. The very smart thing they did was take Henne, whom they knew was going to get his shot at QB, around to different college campuses to have him throw to various receivers. Henne liked Hartline out of the guys he threw to. Thus Hartline got drafted (and probably higher than was rated by most)

Applying this logic how freakin AWESOME would it be to drag old Mr. Fantastic arms himself (OT Jake Long) around and have many of these OLB/DE's try rush drills on him? That would be outstanding knowledge and a HUGE boost of Top Secret info. Actually seeing firsthand how guys did and who Long feels was most difficult to block vs the "Real Deal" would be invaluable.

Cheers,

Carlito good one. I remember this year Oregon SMOKED them.
Anyway - Jason Fox 3rd round for sure. Thats 3 more canes in the NFL! Is this the first time a team took 3 players from the same college in consecutive pics?
1 Jimmy Graham
2 Sharpton
3. Jason Fox

"You never know how much this helps da U"

Go 'canes!

Rob, we missed ya on the McClain blog!

Rob goood idea............ wonder how that would work out....

At the very least the Michigan connection between Ross, Jake Long and Brandon Graham would allow for this lil science lab experiment!

Cheers,

lmao

Rob we could also send ricky around and see who can smoke the most greens and make sure we dont draft them HAHA....

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