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On Incognito Dolphins must weigh risk, reward

Since the topic of this blog is Richie Incognito, I must explain the idea of risk versus reward.

Incognito, whom the Miami Herald reported Saturday will visit the Dolphins this week, is undoubtedly a risky proposition for the team.

He is only 26 years old and already looking for his third team. Icognito joined the Rams in 2005 and after two years as a starter in 2007 and 2008 started being viewed as one of the dirtiest players in the league by a poll of his peers. During a terrible season for his team in 2008, Incognito taunted Rams fans after a home loss. Last year he got into a sideline argument with head coach Steve Spagnuolo after head-butting two opponents in a Rams game versus the Tennessee Titans.

The guy has been referred to as "immature" and a "tool" by St. Louis media.

And yet the Dolphins like Icognito.

They like the guy enough to bring him in for the visit and while that doesn't necessarily mean he's going to sign, it goes a step beyond last season when the team claimed Incognito on waivers. The Bills also claimed him -- getting him because they stunk more than Miami -- but promptely threw him back to the talent pool this offseason where the Dolphins have on the hook again.

So one supposes you see the risk in chasing Incognito. He could still be the same immature player he's proven himself to be. Perhaps he's not that good a player which is obviously Buffalo's opinion.

But ...

Assuming the Dolphins don't do anything crazy like offering major guaranteed money -- or any guaranteed money for that matter -- this risk could pay a dividend if Incognito signs and becomes a good player.

The risk could bring a big reward if Incognito solves Miami's festering right guard problem. The position has been a turnstile for five different starters the past two years. Donald Thomas and Nate Garner shared the job and starts last year.

So what if at 6-3 and 320 pounds, with strength that is unquestionable, Incognito becomes a staple on Miami's line?

Who will complain then?

I know there are questions out there why the Dolphins would flirt with Incognito but not show any interest in other troubled players such as Brandon Marshall?

There is a difference. A big difference. Marshall presents a much greater risk. I detailed what a high risk proposition Marshall is over the weekend.

Marshall would require a big contract, draft picks and a long-term commitment atop his troubled history. The Dolphins don't need to give Incognito a big contract, give up picks and show a lifetime commitment to the offensive lineman.

So if Incognito becomes a player, great. The gamble worked.

If Incognito signs and then disrespects coach Tony Sparano as he did Spagnuolo, if he costs the Dolphins yardage with personal foul penalties, if he's the same immature player he's been to this point, then the gamble failed.

It wouldn't be the first time the Dolphins blew it on a free agent.

Except this one hopefully comes with the appropriate amount of measuring risk versus reward.

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Waterbaby,

Step 1. Slap Yourself
Step 2. Stop crying
Step 3. Grow a pair

Why don't we ask Darrent Williams how he feels about B. Marshall character? Oh ya we can't! Just sad what happen.

Thanks Waterboy. I agree with Jamillion as well.
@WestVaFins-- I did read the post, did you? Its about risk vs. reward. You may think Marshall is a greater risk. That is debatable. But, the reward is exponentially greater than it is with Incognito. If Marshall was in Ginns place the difference would have been noticable. If Incognito was playin RG for us last year would the season have been any different? I doubt it. You bet big, you win big.

waterboy your pro marshall fans left you out to dry where did they all go????

uh oh all alone time to switch back waterboy

pound- you still dont get it... ill try it this time slower for you to get it... The point was not about production on the field. It is the fact that one will cost little money and no draft picks.... Please continue to stay with me so you get this all... The other cost almost 10 mil a year and our first round pick.

Lets take a vote

So far 3-2 in favor of marshall
Pro : Pound, Jamillion and Waterboy
Con: WestVa, Carlito

WestVa still hording those draft picks??? Pat White and Pat Turner werent enough firepower for you?

you will always have more idiots that one high profile problem makers because you all play to many freaking video games and dont ever think outside of the madden world. I wish they would make it possible for brandon marshall to screw up your little dynasty on that game and then maybe you would get it.

“Too bad Marshall was playing offense when Denver was 6-0 and then he was playing defense when they collapsed... It seems you value draft picks much more than the Trifucta ei: Pat White , Pat Turner” - the Waterboy

Yes Pat White was disappointing but we need more time to fully evaluate him. If we counted players as a bust that did not perform their first year then almost every player would be a bust.

We never saw Turner play and now you think you know what type of player he is. Give me a break. Did you just start watching football?

second and third rounder dumbAZZ we are talking round one. VONTAE. LONG. come get some

I know that Pat Turner could not sniff the field where the rotation was: Ginn, Cam, Bess and Hartline.

If he could not sniff it with those 4 maybe he can start in the CFL

I hope Pat White makes it... and we didnt use a 2nd on a QB draw specialist....

Dolphin Disciple,

I have no idea who you are but with a name as Disciple I better be sacred :(

I've earned earned my BA, love my job, love my family, own real estate and I'm only 25. All of that is besides the point Mr. Lets judge a person by their GPA.

What's your EI (Emotional Intelligence), that my friend will take you more places than a GPA. Keep that in mind grasshoper.

By the way, I have never put myself in a situation to be in trouble with the law, the worse I've done is a speeding ticket, if thats good enough to label me a "trouble maker" then go ahead do you really believe that your thoughts matter to those determined to make positive changes?

We all know they are grown men and like I said I'm not deffending them those who deserve to be in jail for a long time, should stay in for a long time but in some of these cases you have to dig deep, not everything is as it seems. You see being a leader is being a threat, most see things that are but a true leader looks outside the box to find solutions to problems.

We are all dolphin fans here right, fools??
What I want is solutions, talent and a championship for my organization! Some "troubled players" are not worth it yes, but you may need to dig a little deeper for many before you give on them and your team!

Thank you.

Fins up, haters down!

WATERBOY- you named a second and third rounder because you know what kind of talent we pull in the first round and that is why you cant give up your first rounder for him and you know it.

Again Armando Salguero can I ask you something are you dolphins fan or Jets Fan?

i like the idea jamilion that we need solutions and talent and all that good stuff. But the progress we are making to get closer to those championships could be severely hurt. Look what TO did in Dallas. Dallas IMO got set back 3-4 when he came in. They were a team moving in the right direction and then BOOM drama. Still no playoff wins.

For the record, I never said we should get Marshall. The article is about risk vs reward. Marshall may be the greater risk but reward is 1000 greater than it is for Incognito. Thats all I'm saying.
@WestVaFins---you dont get it. Look at the title of the article....Risk vs. Reward. Being from West Virgina you probably shouldnt be accusing others of being slow. Im sure we all have some jokes about that. If you need to understand the concept of risk vs. reward, google it.

Thats funny you bring up WV because if im supposed to be slow then why is it that you dont understand the simple principle we are talking about and keep talking around the subject to sound right when you arent. So the slow West Virginian just schooled you again.

Lets put this in real context:

"I know there are questions out there why the Dolphins would flirt with Incognito but not show any interest in other troubled players such as Brandon Marshall?

There is a difference. A big difference. Marshall presents a much greater risk. Marshall is a black guy and Incognito may be the worst thug in the league, but he is white."

For the record the Cowboys beat the eagles in the playoffs last year. :)

Jamillion,

So you think your smart…

Graduated College - you are in tens of thousands of dollars of debt
Bought a house - now your hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt

We are about to have an even worse housing crisis

Hmmm…. Your degree wasn’t in econ was it?

It was unclear... do you support women beaters?

Standley you are more than wrong. Until this past season Dallas had not won a playoff game in correct me if im wrong 10 years or better.

my apologies standley read you wrong.

Armando,

I did not know that Cognito was going to Cincinnati first. Did you?

yes until this year when they got rid of him they were able to move forward with their progress which was not helped but severely hurt by his presence there.

Just like 30 other teams, we have no interest in Brandon Marshall...

lunch back in 30...

WestVaPhin, are you saying an article titled "On Incognito Dolphins must weigh risk, reward" is not about weighing risk vs. reward?

Pound what do you not get about my argument. The risk with incognito is smaller because there is no big contract and no loss of draft picks. if marshall comes in and makes close to 10 mil a year and we lose our number one draft pick and completely disrupts our team then or he comes in and has a huge impact the risk and reward is still better on incognito because we didnt give up anything for him.

Dont lie jamillion, you were on here talking about your foodstamps just the other day

Since we are talking about troubled WRs and their bad past. Here are some of my all time favs who could flat out play.
T.O.
Michael Irvin
Andre Rison
Randy Moss
Plaxico Burres
Chris Henry
Donte Stallworth
Rae Carruth
B. Marshall

Stav, I don't think race has anything to do with the Marshall situation pertaining to the Dolphins, at all. The NFL is 75% black. If that was the case, there wouldn't be enough players. I think the domestic abuse issue has more to do with it. For the record, I am abslutely in favor of acquiring Marshall, but I know it won't happen because tuna hates drama above all else.

WVAF, your post about people clamouring for Brandon Marshall must spend too much time playing video games. In this era or any other, that position is the most overrated in this sport.

People will say Brandon Marshall will bring the Dolphins to the playoffs. Yet, he's never been there. In 2009, he was such a disaster to his team that he wasn't even allowed to play. In 2008, during the last 3 games of the year when the Broncos had one of the most dramatic collapses in the history of the NFL - his stats were similar in the last 3 games to one of the most blasted players on this blog - Ted Ginn. Check it out - Marshall only accumulated 50 more yards and the same # of TDS as Ginn did during that stretch.

People who support Marshall blame the defense for them not making the playoffs but yet he did nothing in either year when the pressure was on. By the way, if he was such a difference maker and you support spending your #1 pick on him rather than fixing a defense that is missing a starter in 3 positions, wouldn't he make up for those shortcomings????? The answer is no but the drones to ESPN sportcenter and Madden claim Marshall will fix all that ails the Dolphins??? By the way, the Bronco defense last year is a lot better than the Dolphin defense is right now so I don't know how Marshall will get them into the playoffs.

Bottom line, WRs sell jerseys and tickets but not team success.

Randy Moss
Terrell Owens
Chad Johnson
Andre Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Anquan Boldin
Brandon Marshall
Braylon Edwards
and many others that people here will salivate over = 0 Super Bowls

Jamillion,

Dolphin Disciple = Dolphin Follower

I did use disciple because of the religious connotation, as in I religiously follow the Dolphins.

Thought you graduated college, wasn’t in Eng. Comp. either

We should just sign Willie Gault and call it a day. It's sad when a 50 year old receiver is better than what we have.

I would say the only 2 diva wide receivers ever that would be worth the trouble were Michael Irvin and Jerry Rice. Rice was always a consumate professional and put the team first. Irvin worked like a madman and understood the team concept. His stories of working endless hours in the smeltering Texas heat with a young Troy Aikman are the stuff of legend. Sure he likes hookers and coke but I don't remember him ever causing that sort of trouble during the season. Completely different kettle of fish to Marshall. The 2 guys above were exceptions - like there are to every rule - Marshall isn't.

Mando Dude...

Brandon Marshall is worth EVERY bit of risk. He is a game changer, I would only rank Andre Johnson above him, the man is a beast ! Im sure Tuna would get him under control. And If the freakin' Jets sign one more good player Im gonna explode! sign Brandon now BEFORE the Jets somehow pull the trigger on Marshall. if the Jets get him, its over for the next five years, the Freakin' NY Jets will win the division, and who knows what else for the next 5-7 years. Looking back... we shouldve hired Rex Ryan when he visited here, instead we hired Cam the Sham !

My all troubled past team is
Qb- M. Vick
Rb- Lawrence Phillips & OJ Simpson
FB- Jamal Lewis
WR- Burress & Marshall
C- Barrett Robbins
G- Nate Newton
TE- Randy Mcmichael
DL- Darrel Russel-Reggie White
LB- Joey Porter- Ray Lewis
CB- Pacman Jones
K- janikowski. Vanderjagt

One more thing...

TRADE DOWN and dradt either safety, Earl thomas or Mays. Its a DEFINATE need nobody will ague with. You pick up an additional 2nd, and maybe draft Hughes ?

Stav,

You are sad. I really feel for you. How do you wake up every morning in such an awful country?

Truthfully you are the only racist on this blog. You are accusing the Dolphins Management of Racism. Do you have any evidence to back up your allegation?

No, you made a comment based on the managements skin tone (white) proclaiming that they think a black player is a greater risk than a white player. You judged them based on their skin tone not personal or public knowledge. That is racist. You are racist. Stop hating Caucasians.

Yeah i dont believe this is a race issue at all. I think its the fact that we just want guys that we can mold into our team with very little controversy. Plain and simple that it is. That is why Marshall will not be a dolphin. He is not that kind of guy.

welcome Mark in Toronto. a couple quick posts and you cut through all the BS that's been flying on this blog. All these people salivating over Marshall probably moved from Detroit (can't get enough of those WRs). Our Defense lost the games last year, not the offense!! Blown leads against Indy and NO... terrible first halves against Houston, Tenn, and Pittsburgh (three solid teams) that our offense almost came back on. NO WAY giving up first round for Marshall.

exactly JWE

The thing about being an o-lineman, is that it's not a diva position. 3/4 of the peopl watching have no idea who these guys are. Offensive line by nature is a spot that is more team orientated, they must play as a group to be efficient.You hardly hear of a lineman that disrupts the chemistry of a team.Sporano is an old line coach. I'm sure in the interview process he will figure out if this guy will be able to fit in, and I'm sure if a contract is offered it will be loaded with behavior, and performance clauses that would make this a low risk signing.

The Jets just took out $100,000 worth of ads trying to smooth over the fans because of letting Thomas Jones go and signing LT...All u IDIOTS and there is no other word for u, go become Jets fans since ur so in love with Rex Ryan and his tremendous moves...get off the blog because ur certainly NOT Dolphin fans

Lets take a vote

So far 3-2 in favor of marshall
Pro : Pound, Jamillion and Waterboy
Con: WestVa, Carlito

Posted by: Waterboy | March 15, 2010 at 11:49 AM

My vote is no, because the price tag is to high for him. He currently is not worth giving up a 1st round pick! If it was a 2nd, maybe. If it was a 3rd, yes!

I hate to tell you but you do not understand what risk vs reward means. I'm not saying that to be insulting, its a fact... let me break it down for you....

Clearly, there is more to lose if Marshall doesn't work out. A first round pick is huge though many of the best players in the league were not drafted in the first round. Off the field issues could keep him off the field. If your speculation is not true and Marshall does not have the issues while with the Phins that you assume he will have, the reward is a #1 receiver, arguably the best in the league. That's something Mia hasn't had in over 10 years. That can directly translate into wins. The upgrade from Ginn to Marshall is huge.

With Incognito, nothing significant is given up to get him. Off the field issues could keep him off the field. At this point it would seem the greatest risk would be penalties while he on the field. Not a terrible amount of risk.

Upside would be a solid RG for years to come. Would his addition directly translate into wins? Probably not but it would definitely help. The upgrade from Thomas or Garner to Incognito probably wont be huge. he is not proven.

Marshall is the greater risk but if it works out he is by far the greater reward. Incognito is less of a risk but if he works out, its less of a reward.

Earlier, if I went off topic at all it was only to say that I think people shouldn't judge other peoples character if you don't know them. A solider can go to war and risk his life and come home with a purple heart. Then that same guy may come home and abuse his wife. Is he a person of high character? It's not so simple to answer. I don't know Marshall or Incognito so judging character is not important. If they were trying to date my sister then I would care about it. What's important to me is if they can stay on the field and be productive for the betterment of the team. I just dont think its fair to use "character" as leverage in an argument when you really dont know thier character.

I haven't been around here for several days, so if you've been waiting for my two-cents:

I very much like Incognito & think we should sign him. I wanted us to get him when Rams cut him, & was upset Buffalo beat us via waivers.

SIGN INCOGNITO!!!

I want the dirtiest, nastiest dude on our line. Remember how we felt facing Mawae, etc?

Let THEM fear US, for a change!!!

Here's something to chew on. Just read this in the Seattle paper while scanning the rumor mill. Sources say that the jets are putting together a package for Brandon Marshall. Check it out. I don't know the accuracy of the article, but it might make for some good convo untill Mando hangs something new.

NO to Marshall. Loss of #12 will set defense back.

Taken from Pound's post:


"What's important to me is if they can stay on the field and be productive for the betterment of the team."

As impressive as Brandon Marshall's stats have been, it would be an even greater task to find a direct correlation between Marshall's production and team success. You can make a good case for Denver having more overall talent during the last 2 years but Miami has a better record and one playoff game.

And don't point to that weak 2008 record as the difference. Denver got to play KC and Oakland 2 times each year. No excuse for that being an easy 4 wins each year for the Broncos but yet it was not.


Dolphin Disciple,

I'm not smart just an ordinary person. But if you knew as much as an ordinary person, you would understand that right now is great time to buy in the housing market. Prices have hit rock bottom and they can only go up from there. Thats a no brain talking about risk - reward.

Carlito from golfito, no comment... you will always just be a follower. May-be you can let your disciple know how food stamps work otherwise I would be glad to help both of you.

If you're reffering to the people who beat your a#$ then yes, Dolphins disciple I am a supporter of women beaters. You first class Putang!!

You both should convert to Jets fans, you're degrading our fin culture!

Fins up Haters down!

Bobby d ... Bc we criticize the empire doesn't make us any less of fans. They got a bunch of calls on players wrong in the last 2 yrs and if YOU accept everything they do then ur a sheep who is happy nvr taking risks and looking back at the glory year when we won the division and lost in the first round of the playoffs. Why don't u say something substantive about our situation, or how about u get off the blog, punk.

POUND-
Marshall- 1st round pick, big contract, possible headaches,
For what???
Incognito - Little money possible headaches.
You have to subtract from Marshalls worth because the player that would be picked in the first round has to count as a loss.
Marshall busts---- we lose our future player in the first and we have 10 mil invested a year on a huge contract. Possible dysfunctional team syndrome.
Incognito busts- we are out very little money that could be easily cut off if his play on the field isnt sufficient.
So i understand that if Marshall can break out and thats great but we lose alot even in that. In regards to Incognito bust or brilliant either way not that big of a deal.

Im sure that doesnt make much sense i just dont have time at work to really type up books and cover everything i wanna say but i think it gives a good idea of what i meant.

Stanley23... Hall og Famer Reggie White troubled? Wasnt he a preacher too? Did i miss something?

Darryl Dunphy - That report of the Jets getting Marshall is a rumor and a source in New York confirmed it was. They are not targeting Marshall!

Heard about the Jets & Marshall this a.m. from either Florio or Joe Rose on radio-----they are on the prowl, fer sher.

You have to judge each player differently. Our offensive line is not fully complete, we could certainly use the depth. Remember Nate Garner literally played 3 spots in the Carolina game, that speaks to our lack of depth at the position. Incognito has the size and the mindset we want out of our line, he won't cost a huge contract. What is the negative? It is not just about adding starters, it's improving the roster from top to bottom.

Bootang more or less exactly what i have been saying since i started on this subject this morning.

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