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On Incognito Dolphins must weigh risk, reward

Since the topic of this blog is Richie Incognito, I must explain the idea of risk versus reward.

Incognito, whom the Miami Herald reported Saturday will visit the Dolphins this week, is undoubtedly a risky proposition for the team.

He is only 26 years old and already looking for his third team. Icognito joined the Rams in 2005 and after two years as a starter in 2007 and 2008 started being viewed as one of the dirtiest players in the league by a poll of his peers. During a terrible season for his team in 2008, Incognito taunted Rams fans after a home loss. Last year he got into a sideline argument with head coach Steve Spagnuolo after head-butting two opponents in a Rams game versus the Tennessee Titans.

The guy has been referred to as "immature" and a "tool" by St. Louis media.

And yet the Dolphins like Icognito.

They like the guy enough to bring him in for the visit and while that doesn't necessarily mean he's going to sign, it goes a step beyond last season when the team claimed Incognito on waivers. The Bills also claimed him -- getting him because they stunk more than Miami -- but promptely threw him back to the talent pool this offseason where the Dolphins have on the hook again.

So one supposes you see the risk in chasing Incognito. He could still be the same immature player he's proven himself to be. Perhaps he's not that good a player which is obviously Buffalo's opinion.

But ...

Assuming the Dolphins don't do anything crazy like offering major guaranteed money -- or any guaranteed money for that matter -- this risk could pay a dividend if Incognito signs and becomes a good player.

The risk could bring a big reward if Incognito solves Miami's festering right guard problem. The position has been a turnstile for five different starters the past two years. Donald Thomas and Nate Garner shared the job and starts last year.

So what if at 6-3 and 320 pounds, with strength that is unquestionable, Incognito becomes a staple on Miami's line?

Who will complain then?

I know there are questions out there why the Dolphins would flirt with Incognito but not show any interest in other troubled players such as Brandon Marshall?

There is a difference. A big difference. Marshall presents a much greater risk. I detailed what a high risk proposition Marshall is over the weekend.

Marshall would require a big contract, draft picks and a long-term commitment atop his troubled history. The Dolphins don't need to give Incognito a big contract, give up picks and show a lifetime commitment to the offensive lineman.

So if Incognito becomes a player, great. The gamble worked.

If Incognito signs and then disrespects coach Tony Sparano as he did Spagnuolo, if he costs the Dolphins yardage with personal foul penalties, if he's the same immature player he's been to this point, then the gamble failed.

It wouldn't be the first time the Dolphins blew it on a free agent.

Except this one hopefully comes with the appropriate amount of measuring risk versus reward.

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Sadly I agree Bobby I don't really see Parcells pulling the trigger on Marshall but 1 can hope once in awhile. I'm just thinking how are we going to solve the WR dilema because getting a WR in the 3rd or 2nd isen't going to do much for a couple years and we'll end up drafting a couple more wr's next year as well hopfully better than Turner..

if they do go ahead and pickup Incognito it means they are ok with D Thomas and Garner and think it enough not to address the OL any further. I think it is a mistake because they need a big upgrade rather than benching D Thomas and Garner for someone w a ? personality...

Just shows how much they are still thinking Guard. Mike Iupati would be a sure staple in this line for many years to come w JL. I say pick the biggest man in 1st rd look for steals later

I always say stay away from trouble players, don't upset the locker room. However, if this guy comes, in Tony Sparano and company will not tolerate any BS. He'll fine himself benched and unemployed quicker then Joey Porter did, so where is the risk? The ball will be in his court, so to speak. He will either do a good job and display the proper discipline or he will fine another team. I think with his reputation he just might get his act together.

I always say stay away from trouble players, don't upset the locker room. However, if this guy comes in, Tony Sparano and company will not tolerate any BS. He'll fine himself benched and unemployed quicker then Joey Porter did, so where is the risk? The ball will be in his court, so to speak. He will either do a good job and display the proper discipline or he will fine another team. I think with his reputation he just might get his act together.

Please someone trade for Marshall ASAP

I hope we do.

so we can all put this talk to bed about him may or may not be playing for the Fins next season.

I don't want to talk about it either. Thanks to Teddy Ginn, I do have the occasional Brandon Marshall dream.

I agree with b12...lets talk about what might happen and not about something that probably will never happen

The fact that nobody jumped indicates that the asking price could be dropping.
At the right price who knows what might happen.

It's getting to viscious up in here... lotta in fighting for people all rooting for the same things (cept closet Jet fans) on our blog...

Levity Break:


Hmmmm, what should Rex Ryan's theme song be??

I vote "Rubberband Man" by the Spinners! =)

Other applicable Honorable mentions:

"Tears of a Clown" by Smokie Robinson

Re: He n Crowder "Beat on the Brat" by the Ramones

"The Wasted Years" by the Cruzados

"New york, New York" I'm sure he would pick old blue eyes as he thinks he's the Don of the NFL calling everyone out.

A year or two from now his beach theme might be "Itsy bitsy teenie weenie yellow polka dot bikini" by Brian Hyland

"Loser" by Beck

Re: Facing the Phins next year 2 x Please"Mr. Custer" I don't wanna go. by Larry Verne


Any other suggestions?

Cheers,

NJ phin fan

Berry length reminds me of sharper---he is a lot longer then earl thomas, but i like earl---berry to me is just the perfect body for a safety with his jumping abilty and length---i think matched up with big wrs he will compete for jump balls better then earl---but earl thomas is a player i like but at 12---i wouldnt take him----We need our pass rusher and we might have both of the top 2 Defenseive ends to pick from who fit the size of a 3-4 SOLB in a parcells scheme---kindle is too small---and graham doesnt have the talent and has never shown he could stand up---for a 12 pick---

I know robinoc we kill me for my graham anaylsis---

but bottom line we have a better chance of getting marshall in a trade then taking graham at 12----

Parcells and Nolan will never take a guy with those measurables at 12--as the futute starting passs rusher of this team----u can take production all you want about this short 4-3 end----

interesting how his measureble in arm length differ so much at combine to senior bowl--at senior bowl he measured 30.5---which is a joke

Thk u Mark, Blazzin Ace, it's just that anything Armando writes always turns into the Marshall saga...Parcells doesn't spend draft picks on or take guys like Marshall... It's that simple, not gonna happen so let's talk about Incognito...I think this will complete the O-Line except for TE...hopefully this guy gets his head together and doesn't cost us any games but considering his size and nastiness I would like to see him here

odinseye,

Good reply to my post bud LOL

odinseye,

Good reply to my post bud LOL

bobbyd12,

My friend is a Rams fan and he said although Incognito is a good player,just expect this guy to be a pain in the backside due to his awful behaviour all the time.

bobbyd12---

I hope ur wrong---cuz that jts GM knows how to get after it and look where they are at...

Top 10 reasons why Miami will not get Marshall

Bill Parcells
Bill Parcells
Bill Parcells
Bill Parcells
Bill Parcells
Bill Parcells
Bill Parcells
Bill Parcells
Bill Parcells
Bill Parcells

Hmmmm, what should Rex Ryan's theme song be??

I vote "Rubberband Man" by the Spinners! =)

Oh yeah, I can't wait to see the remix/video. Rex could collaborate with Bart, LT and Sancheeto.

I wonder if they make spinner costumes big enough for the lard ass?


Nah allen,

I'm not a hater... you have your own opinion and are allowed.

Sometimes we agree and sometimes we disagree but we both want to cheer for a winner no doubt. You and I and many others on here wouldn't bother to spend the time if we didn't.

You don't like BG and are entitled to have that opinion. I think he will be one of the best players in the entire 1st round...just my opinion. If he gets to Pitt they might take him. They LOVE Michigan products Lamarr Woodley and Larry Foote (signed back with them) and have had great luck with that school.

I would trust the combine measurables above ALL others as every team is there and spends great $$ to have it correct and uniform. (Well 'cept for the goofy 40 timer from K-Mart LOL)

Arm lengths at the combine:

BG 32 1/4
Hughes 33
McClain 33
Weatherspoon 31 1/4
Kindle 33 1/4
Morgan 34 1/2

Weatherspoon has the shortest arms but plays ILB and they are only asked to rush sometimes.

If you want to hang your hat on a 1 inch arm length difference between him and taller Kindle or ONLY 3/4 of an inch difference between him and Hughes as the reason he can't pass rush even though he has tons of tape and stats to back up that he can...be my guest bud.

May he put himself one "the rack" to stretch out from the Senior Bowl to the Combine. ;)

Cheers,

We agree on other players which tells me we are both thinking independatly. Jamar Chaney ILB being one.

And by they way, if the Dolphins continue to play it conservative, as you are prodding them to continue, then they will fall further and further behind the hated Jets, which are putting together a very powerful team..AND IF THEY GET MARSHALL, as reports suggest they are considering, SAY GOODBYE TO THE AFC EAST TITLE.

Posted by: jed | March 15, 2010 at 02:41 AM


OK guys Jed has the lead for a "PLUNGIE" only 2 hours left till we give out the covated award......
Read more: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2010/03/on-incognito-dolphins-must-weigh-risk-reward/comments/page/2/#comments#ixzz0iHk8vu6h

My friend is a Rams fan and he said although Incognito is a good player,just expect this guy to be a pain in the backside due to his awful behaviour all the time.

Posted by: Mark | March 15, 2010 at 05:53 PM

Mark, I was hoping he's just a pain in the side. Backside pain sounds a little dangerous;)

odinseye,

LOL, maybe if Good Year makes spinner costume?

Omar the tent maker possibly could as well?

Cheers,

Arm lengths at the combine:

BG 32 1/4
Hughes 33
McClain 33
Weatherspoon 31 1/4
Kindle 33 1/4
Morgan 34 1/2

Weatherspoon has the shortest arms but plays ILB and they are only asked to rush sometimes.

Unless you're trying to become the best arm tackler in the NFL, these numbers are overated.

I just read that three men were found stabbed dead in Miami Beach. Has anyone checked to see if Ray Lewis has been in town recently?

odinseye,

I agree it's an overated category

Since the DE/OLB types have to do a lot of hand fighting then some view it as UBER important. I say it should be taken into consideration but not ding a guy if he has a lot of great tape and numbers to back up his ability.

If someone wanted to attack ANY DE conversion to 3-4 OLB the best place to start is to attack his lack of playing backwards, civerage question marks.

See, I am fair enough to hand out plausable reasons to dispute my own fav pick. :)

I know a couple of "Golden" universal truths:

#1 You will NOT please everyone all the time!
#2 Most don't weigh the "in"exact science part heavily enough.
#3 The cream will rise to the top.
#4 Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder
#5 Perception is reality

Cheers,

I know a couple of "Golden" universal truths:

#1 You will NOT please everyone all the time!

I wish my favorite green blonde could understand this.

#2 Most don't weigh the "in"exact science part heavily enough.

I've tried to convince her of this too.

#3 The cream will rise to the top.

On the good nights.

#4 Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder

Yeah she has beautiful eyes, but her ass is absolutely banging.

#5 Perception is reality

My motto is, "If it looks good, it is good"!


LOL, Well played odinseye... well played indeed.

Wisdom on the set from odinseye

TheSMF! Sup man.

You always bring a difference of opinion and fresh spin on some things...whatcha got for us today?

Rob,

You got any scouting reports on Imcognito?
Any opinion-LOL?

I think it's a longshot, but I'm hoping he's the final piece to the OL puzzle.

The one single issue that has me most concerned is Free Safety...obviously the Trifecta doesn't have the confidence in Clemons and have struck out twice in FA...they say they don't have the confidence in any of the UFAs left..This is something I would live to see solved in FA and not drag into a "must have" starter in the draft

Phans,
Couldn't understand why we couldn't pull trigger on wr then it dawned on me: COUNT THE SPOTS ON THE DEPTH CHART.

With the addition of Penny we are 1 player over on offense, that means someone has to go: Patrick Cobbs

On defense we lost Starters: Roth, Porter, Ayodele, Wilson, Ferguson and maybe Taylor. We added Dansby so WE HAVE TO DRAFT 5 DEFENDERS just to fill the depth chart.

Not all gambles are successes...he is what i want in an offensive lineman, a mean dirty SOB who is strong....if i was the coach i might just play him 4 games, 2 against the pats and 2 against the Jets lol.....this is a low level risk and worth taking, especially if the guy has talent, so what he will has a couple of 15 yd personal fouls...as long as he's not getting arrested and creating a distraction that way I say bring him in and compete.....

My prediction:
Pat Cobbs is out.
Pat White is moved into the offense.

Before you dismiss Pat White remember he outrushed CJ Spiller by 1000 yards and outpassed Tony Pike by 1000 yards.

odinseye,

I would say he is not a long shot. They should be able to get creative and write a "safe" contract and don't have to give up much.

3rd team in a short career thus far says he has issues maybe bigger than you and I know.

I would really dig it if he could come in and be an agressive inside banger at G as long as he not gonna go off the deep end and "Gurode" someone like AH did.

Could be a tough guy, mauler that we have been looking for at the spot.

If they like him I think they may pull the trigger.

For what it's worth I see this as a seperate case from Marshall (draft pick/plus big money -= much tougher decision) I think it's better to go case by case instead of applying "blanket approach".

My 2 cents.

Agree w/ Bobbyd @ 6:49

I hope they get something else to suppliment the draft as they reached out 2 x. That should speak volumes.

SMF,

With 9 draft choices and some FA/UFA time left...should be no problem filling the holes.

Will be interesting to see the layers get peeled back on this enigma wrapped in a riddle that is roster roulette.

SMF,

To be fair to Spiller he didn't start with the ball in his hands every play and a QB gets to move and decide to run when they feel its open (sometimes out of sheer necessity).

Pat White has some giddyup for sure.

I actually hope he makes some hay in year two. He is slapped with a buster label too quickly in my opinion. He didn't come out guns a blazin so let's see how he reacts to adversity.

I would slap a WR number and designation on him so they can use him similarly without worrying about the goofy rotating QB rules.

Cheers,

Rob,
If they loved someone so much more than we have now, and the player felt the same about us, they'd have signed already.
More than likely we have to find 4 defensive starters in this draft.
The skill players on offense that we already have are where 100% of our offense is coming from next season.
Patrick Turner also needs a depth chart spot to move into so I expect Camarillo to be traded for a defender. Az needs a receiver to replace Boldin, NE needs one to replace Welker, Buffalo needs on to replace TO.

Being an armchair GM seems more frustrating this year.
To be fair, I think it's because were a lot closer than in years past.
The last two off seasons were just building depth/foundation and hoping for a gem here and there.
Now it's time to start adding true bonafide PLAYMAKERS.

SMF,

I think NE WR Edleman that was the Welker fill in last year will be the Welker fill for them this year as well.

You are thinking there will be no help added to the OFF in this draft when you said:

"The skill players on offense that we already have are where 100% of our offense is coming from next season.
Patrick Turner also needs a depth chart spot to move into so I expect Camarillo to be traded for a defender"

Camarillo would some value to some teams but, I am not sure what a team would give up for him... I couldn't see more than a 5th?

Maybe that would be a n angle to get a 5th round pick back.

Just seems odd that they had enough faith to keep trying Pat White with mostly negative results and couldn't come up with forced reps for Turner? I know he doesn't play ST so maybe it was more undoable than I think but where there is a will there is a way. Maybe Turner is a game time player??

Cheersm

i love it when PEOPLE DREM ON , IT'S GOOD FOR YOU.

odinseye,

Agreed, I hope we yank at least one rockstar out of this draft!

It's sometimes harder to be further away from the prize than within somewhat of a striking distance.

Cheers,

The risks of Marshall are great, butso is having a team which right now is clearly 3rd best in the division and with no shot of making the playoffs. Look, opposing receivers, TE's and QB's presently have games v. Miami circled as games they play to hit roster bonuses - barring a major upgrade at Safety and a consistent pass rusher, is this team really any better against the big play?
Getting Marshall, perhaps for a second rounder and getting a guy like Berry at 12 would go a long way in making this team relevant.
Our present offensive weapons are a wounded Ronnie, an aging Ricky and bunch of possession receivers - Got mit Uns

ALoco! Sup mang!

"Dream on" about what?

*Side note...Good song.

Cheers,

Ok so free agency is pretty much over. Obviously we are not interested in Marshall. Bottom line, is this team good enough at receiver to take us to the SB? I don't think so. Even if we draft Bryant he'll be a few years away. Safety is a big concern, all in all I feel we are still 2-3 years away if we go the way of the draft.

lasarte,

Good thing is we don't have to finalize that assessment yet.

Let things play out ansd see if you feel the same about the opening day roster.

Cheers,

Free agency is not pretty much over, Yea the big names have been snapped up, and we got ours in Dansby, but free agents and deals will continue on for quite some time

Hennegivensunda, (great screen name lol)

Well Hartline came in as a 1st year guy and did pretty well. Nothing earth shattering but a true much needed breath of fresh air at WR.

WR's Dez Bryant, D. Thomas, LaFell, Tate, Benn are all suppose to be superior talents... could a draft bring help in the form of one of these guys earlier than 2-3 years? If they are really that talented...

I will not close the book on the whole Marshall saga until some other team has him. I think at the right asking price he could get many teams to vie for his services.

Cheers,

Agreed Bobby,

I think there may be even a few UFA's that trade hands sometime.

I also believe that Dansby was and will be our flagship signing unless denver totally caves on it's Marshall demands.

At a low enough price would you take a look at him? I know you have said never gonna happen but would you hold steady to a "No" vote for a 2nd or even 3rd round compensation?

Cheers,

Please help me with this question. What would it cost us to trade up to 5 with KC and get Berry. This guy is the real deal!!!And we desperately need a safety. More so than a nose(we`ve still got a starter named Solai and maybe Merling has put on a few pounds this offseason) and at least as much as a OLB(there is a guy named Wake who tore through O-Linemen last year when he got a chance).
I`m sick of teams going over the top on us. We`ve got corners who can play, Now with Dansby and Crowder there is run support and the possibility of a linebacker running with a tight end. But still no Free Safety.
You have to pay for talent and this guy calls for it. There are players that we could trade like Camarillo or Thigpen and a bunch of late round picks who are generally practice roster guys anyway.
Please help me understand why not go out and get talent !!.

Rob In OC, a third and a player/or conditional??? Talk to me then, Rumour has it, and they said RUMOUR Jets might offer package of a pick and Braylon Edwards...again that is the easy part, he wants big contract that will push the limits that I still don't think Parcells does...

Jeremy, you would probaly have to swap ur first rounds and give up another pick...the problem with ur arguement is 1. Solai is NOT good enough 2. NT is the most IMPORTANT position in the 3-4, that comes from the mouths of Nolan and Sprano 4. There is too many good NT in this draft to ignore/ put off not taking one

My prediction:
Pat Cobbs is out.
Pat White is moved into the offense.

Before you dismiss Pat White remember he outrushed CJ Spiller by 1000 yards and outpassed Tony Pike by 1000 yards.

Posted by: TheSMF | March 15, 2010 at 06:54 PM

WINNER!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good take Bobbyd

Bobbyd,

Part of the reason you hash it out now for a 2nd, 2nd + conditional or 3rd and a conditional/players etc is so we know where we all stand and so they could be very ready to make a decsion if it came up fast the price was dropping.

That said I don't think there is much chance at all that it falls that far as some teams will pony up offers at a 2nd + compensation or a 2nd.

I wonder if Denver would take that cheese. I wouldn't want Braylon Edwards too inconsistant. I spose it depends on Denver's desire to rid themselves of Marshall as to what they take.

Okay but what if you just made the deal and gave up our decond as comeensation. What would it cost to get a new second.
My big point is we need talent at Free Safety... Ed Reed talent. Bob Sanders talent. Defensive player of the year talent!!!
There are talented Nose Tackles avalable in the second and third rounds eg Cam Thomas or Torrell Troupe.Heck even the fat man could be there in the third. There is only one bonafied Free Safety with size. Earl Thomas is smallish.
The trifecta love size and talent so go get it

Jeremy,

To add some more notes to what Bobbyd was saying about trading up and giving up picks/position to get Berry.

If we had only a couple of holes that strategy would be more applicable imho.

1.) He does look like a stellar stud type of player but there have been zillions of the so called can't miss prospects that have not panned out. For the record I think Berry is the goods and will be baller.

2.) The $$ at the 12th spot is somewhat chicken feed compared to #5.

3.) This is ALWAYS one of my most valued reasons why giving up multiple picks/players for one is due to injury alone. If you have multiple players the risk of losing game time due to injury is mitigated much more when spread over multiple players.

That is why I could never see doing a deal like signing Albert Haynesworth... $100 million for a guy that can get injured just as fast as our G Donald Thomas or DT Solai but their salaries are much more manageable. It the all the eggs in one basket not working out theory.

Cheers,

Jeremy,

I think a guy like Morgan Burnett, Chad Jones or Cam Chancellor would have so much more value later in the draft. Morgan is a good safety vs run or pass and may last till the 3rd round. He is taller than Berry and 2 less pounds. He has 4 less passes broken up career wise and the same amount of career INTs 14 as well!!

That would free us up to take take 2 very solid players in the 1st and 2nd rounds as well as still have the option of going after an established FA like Otogwe or Sharper.

Cheers,

Berry may fall past KC. They are in real need of someone to protect Cassel.

Brandon Marshall people! Let's make the move at whatever the cost. I understand the baggage but it's no more of a risk than taking any reciever in the draft. He's an established reciever and requires a double coverage. It will make Bess, Ginn and Camarillo the true recievers that they can be. Well maybe not Ginn. Henne will finally get the confidence he needs and with Pennington pulling the strings during the week and on the sideline we will be Super Bowl bound. We need Marshall more than anything else!

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