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A speculative but interesting trade scenario

The following is not based on sourcing or reporting and is not likely to happen, alright? The following is merely fanciful speculation so let's get that out of the way before anyone spits up breakfast or the folks at rotoworld report this as fact. (By the way, rotoworld guys, I'm not the Dolphins beat writer. I'm a columnist at The Miami Herald so please get that correct from now on.)

This much is certain and true: Oklahoma State wide receiver Dez Bryant was in New England visiting the Patriots Thursday, according to the Boston Globe, Boston Herald, National Football Post, NESN.com, and probably even the dudes at rotoworld.

The Patriots have a situation at wide receiver because they lack a legitimate No. 3 even as their No. 2, Wes Welker, is recovering from a shredded knee and torn rotator cuff. The knee injury happened the final game of the 2009 regular season so the chances Welker will be his usual 100-catch self by the start of the 2010 season seems unlikely.

So the Pats have receiver issues.

And that's big because Tom Brady requires weapons and right now Randy Moss is the only healthy receiver on the roster that gives opposing defenses pause. Now, it says right here that perhaps the Patriots were working the Bryant visit as one of their evil empire devices. But maybe, just maybe, they have a serious interest in Bryant.

If that interest is serious, is it so far-fetched that New England might be willing to trade up to pick Dez Bryant? And what better place to trade up to than perhaps the No. 12 spot in the draft which is currently owned by ... the Miami Dolphins.

It is possible the Dolphins fancy Bryant because he is the best receiver in the draft and they need an upgrade at wide receiver. But it is also possible the Dolphins have no intention of picking Bryant because, regardless of his talent on the field, his stock has been in free-fall mode because he was late to something or other a couple of times.

Seriously, Bryant is the draft's best receiver. Anyone that doesn't see that is blind. And yet, despite never being arrested, he is reportedly falling because of maturity issues and a nightmarish background.

So perhaps the receiver-hungry Dolphins get a chance to pick Bryant. But perhaps the ever-conservative Dolphins don't really want to exercise that opportunity.

Trade!

If the Patriots want Bryant, well then, come and get him!

Back up a second ... even if the Dolphins like Bryant and would pick him, they should still consider trading the pick if Bryant is there at No. 12 because, let's face it, Bryant isn't going to resolve all their problems. But perhaps the Dolphins can use a chance to pick Bryant as a chip to dangle before the Patriots for one of their three second-round picks.

The Dolphins could give New England the No. 12 overall selection in exchange for moving to New England's No. 22 overall selection and picking up a second rounder -- the Pats own Nos. 44 overall, 47 overall, and 53 overall.

That would give the Dolphins three picks in the first two rounds, which means three possible starters on a team that needs starters at wide receiver, free safety, nose tackle and outside linebacker.

Works for me.

This trade value chart, which assigns a point value for every slot in the draft, says an even trade of this magnitude would require the Patriots to give up their 47th overall selection or the second-highest of their three second-rounders.

That would give the Dolphins Nos. 22, 43 and 47 overall.

Is that a superior or inferior standing than having No. 12 and No. 43 overall?

Granted, this scenario would give the Patriots the best wide receiver in the draft. But it would give the Dolphins the ability to pick up three starters.

Yes haters, I recognize the two clubs are in the same division.

The Washington Redskins and Philadelphia Eagles are also in the same division and they just completed a trade. The Pats and Fins were in the same division in 2007 and completed a trade for Welker.

The question here, in this speculative scenario, is would you give up the opportunity to draft Dez Bryant in exchange for New England's pick toward the bottom of the first round and an additional second rounder?

I believe after mulling it a good 10 or 15 seconds, yes, I'd do it. 

 

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Jamillion, I doubt Berry will be there at 12. If he was, I'd say definitely don't trade that pick. But they wouldn't do the trade until they're on the clock, so they'll be able to see who was taken already. Also, on the FS front, they could still get Otagwe (so might not need to draft a FS). As for McClain, he'll probably be gone, but Dan Williams is a good player (at a position of need) and should be there at 22. As long as the Tuna doesn't have a brain fart and drafts a Pat White type pick with one of those 2nd-round picks, I think it would be a very good decision in the end.

Trying to make your case for the trade doesn't completely work, when you add "Look how it bit us in the butt last time we did it."

Never ever bring up the Welker trade to a Dolphin fan you are trying to convince that trading with the Patsies is a good idea. I know, I know, there was no way of telling that Welker would become what he did, or that he even could in Miami. That said, even if he didn't, isn't it better to keep a receiver that would be in no way worse than those we did hold on to, or acquire later, to keep the Patsies from having the most important part of their offensive machine around?

I know Brady is good. I know Moss is scary good. Brady isn't nearly as good without Welker, and neither is Moss. Moss will get over the top help on him. Welker will get help over the top, and underneath. The underneath help will usually come from someone who would normally be rushing the passer. Less pressure on Brady. He also helps Kevin Faulk remain effective at 94 years old. He gives the D something to worry about on all four downs, opening up the running game, and passing game.

Had we traded him to say, an NFC North team, we would see him maybe once in his career. Trading him to the Patsies guaranteed that he would come in, ready to show off, twice a year. That, if nothing else would make me shy away.

Also, don't tell me it was a good idea to trade him for a Hawaiian Center, not tough enough to stand up to a true NT, facing a 3-4 scheme. DON'T TRADE IN THE DIVISION.

This trade would essentially mean we trade a receive (dez bryant) to the Pats for a second round pick. Last time we traded a receiver (welker) to the pats for a second round pick it was a disaster. We drafted Samson Satele with that pick who played 2 average seasons before being traded for a 6th round pick while the receiver we traded has led the league in receptions multiple times. DO NOT TRADE THE RIGHTS TO BRYANT TO THE PATS!

I think we need to take Bryant, we need that one big playmaker that we don't have now.I would like to see DE or Safety next.I f we don't take Dez i would go after Demaryius Thomas.If the Pats want to move up to get Dez,that should tell you somthing,they know how to pick talent.

1st DRAFT BRYANT
2nd TRADE UP TO DRAFT GOLDEN TATE
THEN GET RID OF TURNER,GINN,MAYBE GREG
3rd MORGAN BURNETT or RESHAD JONES
4th BRANDON LANG(TROY)
5th LINVAL JOSEPH (E.CAROLINA)
6TH JUNIOR GALETTE (STILLMAN)
7TH BRANDON CARTER (TEXAS TECH)

Would be nice if this happens... but knowing both organizations, no way in hell it will happen...

Go Phins........................

I guess every fins fan enjoys watching skill less wr's who can't get seperation from even average cb's and have zero change to make a play once they have the ball in hand.

Our wr's suck and scare no one in this league. Any one who doesn't believe this is moronic. We have one of the worst offenses in the league and a top 17 D in NFL. Hummmm which needs to be upgraded?? Passing game is poor and we are last in the league in plays over 20 yds. Wait....but we need more defense.
While the PAts and Jets will continue to add offensive playmakers...we will settle for 4th tier skill position guys who are marginal at best.

I know it's speculation, Mando, but it was very entertaining and also informative about where teams are and might be thinking.

You are the best COLUMNIST at the Miami Herald. That's why I read your stuff every single day.

You got me thinking Mando and you know that's dangerous.

What if the Dolphins try to do this and then turn around and use one of the two No. 2s to trade with Denver for Brandon Marshall! That would be awesome. That way we got the extra pick and the bigtime WR while NE only got a prospect that might or might not be a good WR in the NFL.

Great stuff, by the way.

Waterboy,

Exactly - Either Berry or Thomas will fill a huge void on defense with a lot of up-side - giving us the best young secondary in the league for years to come.

and yes, T.O. is the answer @ WR

On offense, only minor repairs have to be done;

Receiving TE or #1 option @ WR
Trade a QB for a draft pick but keep Pennington

That’s it, take care of those 2 things and we’re competitive on offense for this year.

Defense has a lot, which all can be taken care of with a great draft:

Re-sign Taylor (feelings aside, the fact is he's affordable and still produces)
FS
NT
OLB

All four MUST be taken care of and they’re screwing up with the 1st one!!

A lot of fans don’t realize that our offense got the job done last year even with our receiving corps, if our defense was even half way consistent we would have been in the playoffs instead of the Jets.


Ayodele out, Dansby in – fix #1 (Huge fix)
Wilson out, Thomas, Berry, Sharper or OJ – fix #2 (huge fix)
No one out, rookie NT in – fix #3 (can only be better)
Porter out, Wake in – fix #4 (Wake was here last year so in order for this to be an upgraded fix we have to find a valuable rookie to back up)

TAYLOR IN!!! – Don’t screw it up #1

Don't sweat rotoworld and rototimes Mando. Just a bunch of geeks that never go outside during the daytime.

Interesting scenario. Helped me survive the first hour at work on a Friday.

THIS is the reason I come to this blog daily. Some days you break news, some days you have strong opinions, some days you share about your life (which I relate to because I'm about your age and also Cuban), some days you write funny stuff, and some days you make me think about Dolphins stuff.

Thank you Armandito. You are a resource to our Dolphins.

ARMANDO

I'll TRADE YOU 08 ACCORD 09 SIDEKICK and a 08 MALIBU FOR YOUR VETTE

This would blow so let's not get the best WR in the draft but then pick one of the left over WR's? On top of letting the Pats get the best WR for a few picks? Absolutely not this is a nightmare scenario for me I do not want to see Dez on the patriots or jets for that matter we will be paying twice a year for a long time.

I just got a sick thought: What if the Pats use one of their second-round picks on Brandon Marshall.

That would be terrible.

In the case the scenario that Armando is complete (picks 22, 43 and 47 overall), what about trade up 22 & 43 to get McCoy? (just saying)

I think the Cowboys would be a much more logical trade partner as far as a team looking to trade up for Dez Bryant

Never happen balloon head...Mando are you a jounalist or a fan blogger...I swear i can write more insightful column than you. You just pose absurd scenarios or ask your readers questions...which is us really writing the article

Is this what happens when were just sitting around for 2 weeks waiting for the draft to start????

I think Mando's example is more an example than a prediction and the general point is a good one to consider.

Given the depth of this draft and our needs, I think we would be best off trading down if the chance comes up with the 1st and the 2nd, and maybe even the 3rd, so long as we get the standard value.

A 4th this year ain't what a 4th was last year, it's more like a 2009 3rd.

Reading the comments I agree with Finheaveblows, this blog gets me through the day at work. Even my boss reads it at work.

Doubt that trade will happen but if it does take Golden Tata or Demaryius Thomas at 22 then trade Ginn for a 4th and hopefully they can unload Smiley for another 4th rd pick.

Getting an extra 2nd and possibly 2 additional 4th's or a 4 and a 5 would allow Miami a chance to fill some more holes.

Then with the 2 2nd rd picks take the best available player at OLB, NT or Safety.. I think even if they use a higk pick on a NT they should still take a another big body as a developmental project with one of their 6th rd picks.

While I don't dismiss NE's interest in Bryant, I don't think they are interested in trading up to get him. They are doing their due diligence in case he falls that far. I don't think NE is as desperate at WR as you may think either. Yes, Welker is not 100% but don't forget NE invested a pretty high pick in WR two years ago in UNC's Brandon Tate, who sat out all of last year recovering from a torn ACL. Yes he's young but Tate would have been a first round pick if it weren't for that injury. Just want to remind everyone that NE will be seeing what this kid has got this season.

I said two years for Tate but I meant last year's draft.

Posted by: Shelly | April 09, 2010 at 08:00 AM


"All of you people that are against drafting a play maker are dumb and dummer."

Just precious!!! It's posts like this that keep me thoroughly entertained and coming back!!

What about this draft and trade scenario

1st Round - RB - CJ Spiller
2nd Round - draft best defense player available
3rd Round - trade pick with another later pick to Denver for Brandon Marshall.

The Dolphin offense will then be like the Saints. You don't need a great defense to win. The last Super Bowl proved that.

Posted by: Mike in Boston | April 09, 2010 at 08:14 AM

Your name should be MIKE ON DRUGS

screw the pats! at 12 take the best player on the board if its dez than good for us. if its someone else good for us.

If it was anyone other than a division rival it would be a good idea. We could focus on defense with our diet 2 picks and pick up a WR later

But we be involves in making new england better. It will come back to haunt us.

Besides judging by the pats history they are unlikely to trade up, even though they have the ammo

Knowing this bunch, they would do it in a heartbeat. But if I were them, I'd think twice about any dealings with NE.

All for picking up additional draft picks. Like everyone has implied, we have so many holes to fill and a good draft to select from---especially defensive big bodies.

Funny how FPLD and Willi Chirino post in the morning and both the same person, your sick dude.

i dont think new england would do it cuz they would be losing 10. I see a better senario if we trade our 12 and 212 picks for there 22, 53, and 119, we would only be losing .4 of points but we lose a 7th round but pick up a 4th round pick, what do ya think?

All this trade down, trade up for more picks is all a game in itself.

I think we need to trade up and MAKE SURE WE GET DEZ. If Dez is gone, and I DO believe that he will before the 12 pick, let's HOPE that Speller is still there for the taking.

Like one poster said.. Look at the Pat White project and where that's got us. We have bigger kids that play in Pop Warner.

Look at Ted Ginn. I knew Ginn was a bust and overrated but they wasted that pick (the other regime did).

Let's stop with the BS and taking players for value. Yes, value picks are good but the Fins NEED playmakers. Will Dez be a bust or a Pro bowler? Just like with all players time will tell. But for the short run Dez mechanically and physically has what we need.

Tuna will foster the kid and mentor him to keep him straight and on the right path to success.

Look at Moss. Everyone said he's washed up trouble kid and take a look at how he STILL today BURNS us twice a year and how he BURNS all the other teams.

I really feel that NE wants Dez because of Welker's condition. Walker opened up Moss and Moss opened up Walker. They NEED another fast play maker and how will the Fins double coverage Two NE playmakers??????

Take that to the bank.

Agree with trading down.

Try to move down less than 10 spots, then you could aim to trade right out of the 1st round with a second trade.

The value is in rounds 2 and 3.

Your posting in the morning also zman. I come to this blog three-four times a day. What is your point son?

the sob's already took welker from us i wouldn't piss on the pats if they were on fire.

Also, it is F L P D as in Fort Lauderdale Police Dept. It is not FLPD. Get it right please.

PU-LEASE...Spiller is the last thing this team needs and there are plenty of receivers who will be available in rounds 4 and on..DEFENSE

Great point, PCola - and Tate was better than Hakeem Nicks at UNC before he got hurt.

This one is ridiculously far-fetched for a couple of reasons:

1) You don't trade with division rivals. Philly traded McNabb to Washington because they were offered a lot and because Washington is no threat to them. Similar story in our division - I'd happily trade with Buffalo but not with NE or NY.

2) Belichick moves down, not up. Unless he's completely infatuated with Dez, he'd take two of the other top receivers (G.Tate, Benn, D.Thomas, etc.) later on before he surrendered an extra pick for Bryant. WRs bust a LOT- and I'd rather have two of the top five than the consensus top guy (who has the potential for issues to boot).

If you want a more realistic scenario, I think we'd be WAY more likely to trade down with Dallas.

The PO PO is here

NO !!
NEVER !!
TAKE DEZ BEFORE The Patsies do !

A very interesting column Armando, but I don't believe that it's necessary for Miami to trade their 12th overall pick to our division rivals. Just my opinion.

Waterboy, just act normal

okay okay. I dont put any stuff in the water... just do my job and go home

I'd consider it. It would make up for the Pat White mistake. But then again, we need a playmaker wide reciever worst of all.

IMO, this is a best case scenario, no matter who is still there at #12. If we're on the clock and ANY team comes calling to trade 1st rnd picks in exchange for a 2nd, we'd be idiots not to jump at that opportunity in a draft this deep! The first half of the 2nd rnd this year is like the late 1st rnd of most other years. That puts the most value in round 2.

I'm really hoping a scenario like this happens, though I'd certainly prefer it to be a team other than the Pats or Jets.

I would do it and try to pick up an additional 5th or 6th round in next years draft.

I wouldn't make that trade. Your helping New England by giving them the best receiver in the draft and only picking up one extra pick that could be a bust. Meaning the Patriots could gain everything and the Dolphins nothing. Too risky. Also I find it very interesting that not one writer at the Herald printed what Ireland said about draft prospects and where they stand with their draft board. Why do I have to go to the Sentinel to get this news? Ireland constantly takes crap from this paper for not speaking to the media and then when he does no one covers what he says?! WTF is that? LOL.

The trade down idea is good. The trade partner is bad. Cincy or Dallas are better partners. Cincy need another wide out and pick infront of New England. Earl Thomas very well might be still avalable then,and we`d receive their second rounder and either a fourth this year or a third next...Dallas too is more likely. We`d simply swap draft positions with them and receive Miles Austin as compensation. That itself is a starter and 3 picks still in the first 3 rounds.

However I still think that there is a deal with KC in the works. KC pick Berry and wait to see if a quality O-Lineman is avalable @12. If so they swap picks with us for Smiley,and next years fourth.Either way KC should be happy as Berry is a hell of a player and they have many needs.

Armando you have to stop drinking...LOL This is crazy...first why would the Dolphins trade with N.E. in the first place, then why would N.E. trade with the Dolphins when they can surely find a team like the Jags who would love to trade back and acquire a second round pick for Tebow. Why would the Dolphins trade back to let N.E. grab the best receiver that would play against them twice a season...when the Dolphins need a receiver like Bryant? If you replace N.E. with the Cowboys...I could see that trade...but to help the enemy and hurt yourself...well thats stupid.

Don't want Dez, don't want to trade with the Cheatriots! Spiller if it a pick for the offense.

Gotta agree I have been mulling this issue over some time myself. Really only the Pats have the amunition to move up in the draft that we could use. In fact it could be in the works if you read behind the lines on Irlands interview yesterday. He mentioned that it would take a lot to move up in a trade in your same division. Ireland "could" have been saying I want your 1st pick in round 1 and your 1st pick in round #2 to the Pats. Now if this in the works you know that the Pats have called the Bronco's who might take less. Once you get int he top 10 picks per the value chart the Pats would have to give that up plus more. It is really going to come down who is left on the board when we pick to make this happen of course. The reason not just for the extra picks I could see this happening is I project OLB as out first pick for the phins but most of the OLB except for Maorgan are projected in most mock drafts to go in the middle or later in round 1. For the phins to pick one at #12 is a bit early. Good blog Armando.

This would be perfect for us if we were able to trade out of the First round with Tampa Bay for their 2nd,third and fourth round picks. This would allow us toshore our Defensive interior and select the right pieces for our offense. There are too many great 2nd round picks still available when tampa selects.
I would jump all over this and even perhaps trade TG four another 2nd in 2011 and fourth this year with Washington or whoever wants him badly.

Tough one. I would probably do it but, when was the last time you have ever seen Bellicheat trade up (especially) in the first round?

Mike, who is Sweeney??? I would like to know who this guy is we could trade for a 4th.

You might mean Justin Smiley, just the facts man.

PREDICTION:

Round 1: with the #12 pick of the draft, the Miami Dolphins pick... Earl Thomas, Safety from Texas. Wears #22, srarts at FS - 5 Ints, 2 for Tds.

Sean Smith - 6 Ints
Vontae Davis - shuts it down & 4Ints
Will Allen - Nickel situations, plays up to par
Jason Allen - Dime package - finally makes plays - ints and sacks
Don't forget Y. Bell - Tackle machine his way to another Pro Bowl year, this time not as a replacement.


Our Pass Def. was bot. 5 in the league last year, and led the NFL in passes over 25 yards! That's a huge coverage hole when you have a SS trying to cover as a FS (Wilson)
With one year under the belts of Davis and Smith, the return of W. Allen and Placing a real Free Safety with superior coverage gives us a 180 degree pass def. change from last year.

That's how important it is to draft a FS with the first pick. It changes all the dynamics of the D's game changing play ability!

Hey NJPHINFAN, How about those Marlins winning the series up in New York?? LMFAO! So much for the Mets, they will battle it out with the Nats for the NL East basement.

We can agree on the Dolphins though.

I don't see a trade like this happening. It makes sense in a lot of ways but I just think it's pure fantasy. It's not New England's way to move up and make a move like this and it's certainly not how they do things with a divsion rival (Welker being the exception). Not sure why they would want to help us by giving us an extra pick and not sure why we would want to give them the top wide receiver in the draft, unless we are convinced he's going to be a car wreck.

I think it would be more likely that the Pats would trade up with a team like Jacksonville or Denver to get this player and not have to give that extra pick to us.

Caution: Long Post with question for participation and alternative view points... only read if ya care...

"Philm" I would like to reply and ask a question concerning your statement in post mad at 3:26 am.
You said...
"We need to start getting top notch talent in the draft not the 5th best player at a position who never amount to anything other than an average players"
Now I realize this comment was made several hours ago, but I have read several posts at other times in different Armando blogs that are similar to this comment that I would really appreciate some input from others on. I am being serious. Because I see this issue as a point of contention among many fans.

I have a view point which says... This Management staff has only had two years to do what they have done... "Philm" said in his post that "we need good Players from the draft not guy who are average".... Now, I agree with that statement 100%, But... you only get so many top round picks. In Their First two Years Miami took what was without a doubt the best LOT in the draft with Jake Long... A home run draft pick by any standard. In that same year they picked Henne with a Second round choice... we may have a franchise QB in Henne... time, as always will tell. But there is NO doubt he can play and move the ball and score in the NFL level. I see that as a GOOD pick. I also believe a year later they took "the best CB" and one of the top three CB's in that draft w/ V. Davis and S. Smith. These two picks IMHO are good ones and will develop into long term answers at the corners. The Brian Hartline pick at #4 last years was no wasted pick either. He is sneaky fast and has great hands and is smarter them most guys on the field.
To temper my statement, it is clear Miami and its management have made errors... more in FA then the draft but they have made errors in both. I hear much said about the Pat White pick... I would only ask this "Based on his College Career, and what he accomplished there, along with the "Wild Cat" direction Miami seemed to be taking before Chap P. was injured and Henne came up to bat... Who would have saw Pat White having such a tough time translating his game to the next level? I did not see that coming? Even as a 40 year fan I didn't see it. I never figured him for a drop back NFL passer... but thought he had the Arm, Legs and brains to make something happen... I thought it would be a great fit for him in Miami I thought he would be a "poor mans Mike Vick" for lack of a better argument or terminology.
I feel we have seen Miami rebuild an O-line to a Level that not only local pundits... but many other national level prognosticators believe will be one of the better O-lines in the league. With the addition of a decent NT our D-line is young and promising. With the addition or stepping up of Culver or Clemons... our secondary is young and coming up. We are solid at QB. We have improved at LB w/ Dansby but are looking to this draft to fix the deficiencies there and at WR we are looking to the draft and I still think FA may hold a guy for us.
So... My question is this...
"At only two years in, with only two drafts to have worked with and one decent FA class (Last Year) and one Horrible Class (This year) speaking of available talent... not Miami's performance in the FA choices.... I am having a difficult time condemning this staff for their progress and cannot see where we have chosen any more "Pedestrian level Players" then any other team has based on their number of high level draft choices, so long as you don't count teams who are selling their drafts out for FA guys now (Jests)... So... I would love to hear some input... aside from selling the future for guys like Marshall who no one in the league aside from Seattle has shown interest... where should Miami have made a different turn? By the way guys... I am not being argumentative... I am searching for good football conversation and to get another perspective to consider... Thanks for your input in advance... Sorry for the long ass post. I'll check to see if anyone has an opinion after a couple hours....

No matter what... We cannot let New England or the Jets grab Bryant, even if it means drafting him ourselves. Even if we didnt want him, Im sure if we drafted him, we could ship him elsewhere during the draft and pick up extra picks ?

I don't care

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