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Ireland on Pat White, Henne-Marshall relationship

Dolphins related tweets and blogs lately have been discussing what really happened in the Pat White situation in the spring of 2009, with the suggestion that all the blame fell on one party or another party for making what is a lingering and painful miss for the Dolphins on the player personnel side.

Some folks are blaming Bill Parcells exclusively. Some people blame general manager Jeff Ireland. Some people absolve both men and blame ... someone else.

In light of the recent rumors and tweets, I asked Ireland during his appearance on the Armando and the Amigo show Friday, what exactly happened with Pat White.

"There's a lot of things that go into why a player that you drafted doesn't work," Ireland said. "Some of those things you can talk about, some of those things you can't talk about. But when we drafted Pat White, like I said in my press conference, Pat White had a unique set of skills. And we wanted to utilize those skills to the best of our ability to help our football team. That did not work out.

"And so we got to move on. We can't come in the office every single day and look at something that's not going to work out. We probably could have kept him and tried to keep working on it but at the time we felt like we had to move on. There's a lot of things you can blame. If you want to blame someone, blame me. I'll take the heat on that.

"But we're moving on and we're going to move on with the players we have on our football team and try to get better in the future."

I know fans want to know exactly whom to blame or credit on certain personnel moves. It is fair because it's about accountability. But I'm getting the feeling Ireland is accepting the blame because he was the one being interviewed.

Yes, he had a major role in taking Pat White. But so did Bill Parcells, who obviously signed off on the selection. So did then quarterback coach David Lee, who pitched White as a player who would bring a new set of skills to the Wildcat package and its evolution into a spread attack similar to the one run by many colleges. Coach Tony Sparano also liked White's promise.

The truth is watching White work his magic for West Virginia got Dolphins folks aflutter. A feverish optimism that it would translate in the pros took hold at the team's training facility.

I have been told it was indeed an organizational decision. Obviously Ireland is taking, as he says, the heat. But it goes further than that.

Why is the White issue even important a full two years after he was drafted?

Well, the Dolphins this offseason find themselves in a position of needing to add a quarterback so they can have insurance for the uncertain abilities and future of Chad Henne.

And so they have to cover old ground because they addressed that insurance need, they thought, by picking White in the second round of the 2009 draft. But White was the most un-Dolphins-like pick in the Parcells-Ireland-Sparano era. He was smallish. He was not exceptionally strong. He was overmatched physically on the field.

Now Miami must use another draft pick to address that need.

In the 640-Sports interview, which you can listen to in its entirety if you click here and go to the Armando and the Amigo podcast, Ireland was also asked about Henne and his relationship with Brandon Marshall.

You remember the two men had uncomfortable exchanges in several games, particularly late in the season. You'll remember toward the end of the season, Marshall made the point that Tyler Thigpen "gets it," about getting him the football while suggesting Henne didn't.

Ireland was asked if a sitdown with Henne and Marshall is in order so they can hash things out, making it possible for them to continue working together.

"Well, I think our coaching staff can help that process move forward in the right direction," Ireland said. "I think those guys, here again, you get emotional and things don't go well and things happen on the football field that can always be mended by production on the football field.

"Those two guys are very important to our offensive production moving forward. And they're going to get on the same page. They're young together. They're growing together and this whole football team needs to mature. That's not just Chad and Brandon. That's our defense, that's our special teams unit, that's our offensive unit, coaching staff, the general manager.

"We all need to mature in this whole thing. So they're just a small piece of that and they'll certainly grow together and provide some production. There's no doubt about that in my mind."


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Would be nice if Brandon cut down on his drops to about less than 1,000,000 or so per season. WOuld be nice if he went all out for once too instead of just talking about it.

No, I am not the biggest brandon marshall fan.

Another year of Henne-to-sometimes-but-rarely-Marshall will result in another losing record. What Ireland says scares me, because it's so evident to even a blind man that Henne is not the future. If both Sparano and Ireland decide to stay the course, I can tell you where that coure will eventually lead them: out.

And deservedly so.

Agreed mark....a lot of drops by marshall....he needs to put up and shut up!

They'll waste a pick on Pat but won't move up to get a better player. thats why when I wake up in the morning. I contemplate being a fan of Indy. Us fans don't have much hope left Mr. Ireland. Get a real QB please!!!!!

look fellas we all know its gonna be a long wasted year. but least we will finally rid ourselves of this awful staff.

Henning and our running game were the biggest issue with the dolphins last year. When you can't run the ball you don't win with a young QB period!!

Lets hope the running game gets fixed next year or Cowher will be here.

if yu ask me i actually liked pat white...i'd take him ove henne lol...besides no one can actually say pat white was a bust bkuz we never gave him a shot..i think he would have did better than henne :/

mando has a radio show? why has he never mentioned this before?

pat white was one of the worst nfl players ive ever seen. henne is awful. ireladn is awful. sparano is retarded

They're not going to make it to the super bowl with Henne as the QB. He is a 2nd string at best. A young QB is exactly what Miami needs.

u realize mando doesnt even write on this blog. the material is awful and boring cause they just have an intern act like him. this blog is good for us to talk and rant . but mando is never really on here, just some garbage intern spewing stuff to rile us up

I was waiting all season for those yards after catch that we paid that guy so much money for.. He needs to pay attention to his own needs as far as improvement! He has proved to be selfish not worrying about getting his team penalties with his immature behavior. Plus he needs to catch the ball all the time instead of when he feels like it, then I'll be a Marshall fan!

i wonder if on his radio show he mentions that he has a blog and a twitter account every 5 seconds?

I think the MB Henne thing had more to do with coaching. The game plan seemed to be focused on pitch catch and sit down in the hole. Brandon came from a more aggressive philosophy that, frankly, was lacking in Miami last year. Henne was afarid to buck the system.... and production showed.

pat white was a waste of a pick, but i am not sure henne serves no purpose. this administration cuts ties quickly which is great, but they need to get something in return. roth, JP, JT, Ginn and his family, all were discarded basically and we got nothing in return. what is the point of trading down for more picks when you waste them or give the players away for nothing in two years?

It's not fair to criticize Marshall after such a poor showing from Henne and Henning and the running game. He is a Diva. But for a good reason. Henne was so inaccurate with his throws Marshall had to put all his concentration on just catching the ball. Much less trying to make the 2 or 3 defenders miss. IMO not his fault Miami sucked last year.

Based on the criticism on this blog on Henne guess I can criticize anyone I feel like!

The title of this blog is 'Ireland on Pat White, Henne-Marshall relationship', yet we learn absolutely nothing. A good, investigative reporter would ask probing questions and not let them go until they are literally answered. Armando accepts what ever run around garb that comes out of Irelands mouth and doesn't pin him down to any specific response. In essence, Armando asking the question has the same effect as if he never asked it in the first place.

So even thoough marshall was one of the 5 highest targeted WRs in the league, his lack of true production is not his fault? I guess we paid $60 mill for a receiver who only catches the ball if it's perfect? Can't Ricardo Wallace do the same for $12 an hour and no benefits?

Poor Armando, Jeff and Tony mind fk's him and then they tell him to play nice or they won't play at all. I there with ya bro

No they're paying a back QB to throw him the ball???????????? I don't get it either.

Please, Thank you Mark for saying it. the teams record would be better and Henne's numbers would be A-Lot better if Marshall would catch the ball!!! Rarly go to Marshall??? He at mid season was to 5 in catches, and he dropped half that went to him.

then coaching started controlling Henne and the wheels fell off.

I am not a Henne fan at the moment. But WAY to many people blame him for this season, and there is MORE blame to go around to other areas, 1. being coaching and 2. being Marshall dropping the damn ball.

Henne has his share of blame also, but not as much as some people here are claiming.

What the real head scratcher is. Parcells had a "prototype player" for each position. They definitley strayed from that guidline with White. I wonder if that at all came into play in their draft strategy last year? Because it was documented here that they wanted certain body types-team capt. type guys. It might explain why they passed on some of the outstanding tight ends last year..

So, everyone needs to "mature together?" In other words, they all need to just grow up and play football! True dat! Lol!

people who post 'first' on forums and comments are retarded imbreds.

It seems like no one's in charge in the Dolphins organization since Ross forced Parcells out the door. The coach almost got canned. The owner is a moron. The GM can't lead the organization. The QB has absolutely no leadership skills or presence. The Dolphins organization is a rudderless ship right now.

The best thing that can happen is the Dolphins is to have a 1-15 year in 2011 purely because of injuries. Stephen Ross sells the team out of frustration. The Dolphins draft Luck and are instantly good again.

Poizen, I get what your saying but all I saw from Henne was alot of inaccurate throws and inablity to escape the rush. What good things did you see from him this season?


mrmikejohnson, Congratulations!!

You have been added to the Mommy's Titties Club

Another bozo wishing for the Dolphins to fail next year

Try talking about players or something worthwhile next blog

Instead of hoping for failure


Phinsfan 78. With all due respect. there were plenty of games early on this year where Henne in the 1st half started 11-13, or 12-15.

There were other games where he was below that, but i recall 2 of them where Marshall dropped 3 balls in his hands on his own.

I watched every game this year also, and there were games where henne was off, and REALY off. So i can not defend the WHOLE season.

that being said, coaching screwed this kid up at the end of the year, and every time he threw a int he got blasted, the next two series he played scared.

Also our O-line was beyond terrible. I don't care who you are as a QB, if you don't have time your not going to be accurate.

Hmm, the titie club sounds interesting to me...where do I sign up?

I said it before, Ted Ginn shouldn't have been given away. Ginn is not a receiver who goes across the middle, but he certainly could get deep and run back kick-offs. We have absolutely no deep threat right now and nobody that is a threat to run back a kick. He caught a few deep balls while he was here and he certainly beat the Jets.

but Miami has a o-line coach for a HC. so there line has to be at least average. Plus since Marino left the o-line has been awful. And the fans has used that excuse almost every year since. The truth of the matter is that the o-line is ok and Henne is awful.

Ok, Then how do you explain the running game? We had good running backs?

If Henne was awful he would never have had a 300 yard game, and never won, so the awful stuff really has to stop.

The running game is on Riky and Ronnie. I don't know what happened to Ricky. Only he knows that . But Ronnie is always dancing around. Especally this year. Instead of pounding the ball. I don't know why he's always looking for a home run. When all he has to do is get base hits.

Soooo,, what your saying is, the O-line played well, and there were average to nice wholes and ricky AND Ronnie and Cobbs and Lex when he was in there, all seemed to miss them, howwever Ronnie just danced around all the time.

Riiighhhtttt. I get it.

On a 7-9 team 2 years running, there's LOTS of contributors to the problem. That's one thing that's bugged me about the Dolphins lately. In '08, it looked like everyone was working together. Last year, the run offense was great, but the defense was a disaster. This year, the pass offense started pretty good, the defense was very good and the run offense was horrible (then the pass offense fell off when Henne did).

So, yeah, Henne, Marshall, o-line, RBs, ST, coaching, everyone had a hand in the mediocrity we witnessed.

The OTAs really could have helped this "maturity" Ireland says is needed. It could have brought guys together in the offseason, helped them gel, gotten on the same page. But, not gonna happen. CBA blues!

WOW, I wrote wholes and not holes.

I'll be back, have to go bark for the yack women,.

getting 300 yards is done all the time. It's not getting the 300 yds thats impressive. But it's how he got them. Tds in the passing game comes from good play from the QB. Accurate throws or escaping and making something happen. He did not do any of that except in the early games. In the first half when teams weren't playing at there best. It's just not even close to being good enough.

At the 0-4 or 0-6 point sparano will quit just like wanny. HE will have no choice gooo phinns 2016

Phinsfan78, I agree with a lot of what you wrote in this last post.

All I wll say to that, is Henne did not have the same freedom other QB's had. Marshall made that point upon clearing hup his comments about saying thigpen "got it". Because when Thigpen "got it" he did not listen to coaches, then the next series got benched.

that spoke volumes on what coaching was doing with to much control.

your right DC it is just about everyones fault. But just like Henning wouldn't you start with the lead man. The one who touches the ball on evey snap. (other than the wildcat). The team has no maturity because the leader of the team has none. He said after one of his practices in the preseason that he was not intrested in staying late to work on some things. That's when he lost me as a fan.

So, column # 1 on the Ireland interview confirmed that we may or may not keep Ronnie or Ricky. Column # 2 on the Ireland interview confirmed that either Parcells or Ireland possibly picked Pat White. Brilliant 'Mando. Way to get to the bottom of things! And if your reaction is that your just reporting what Ireland told you... Well, great job at producing 2 blogs that say nothing. You've clearly mastered the art of talking without saying anything.

Back to the last blog..I want to compare the combine numbers of Peyton Hillis, and Lex Hilliard. I understand that this was 3 years ago. I'm just pointing out the similarities in the 2 backs. And why I think that in this Dabolls system. Hilliard can be a contibutor.
Guess which back is which.
Back 1 40 time 4.66 20 time 2.61 10 time 1.63
bench reps 26 broad jump 9'09"
3 cone drill incomplete shuttle 7.15

Back 2 40 time 4.71 20 time 2.7 10 time 1.63
bench reps 32 broad jump 10'02"
3 cone drill 4.2(tied 3rd fastest running backs) shuttle 7.01

phinsfan78. I really do like that you are holding players accountable.

I just think your thinking that these players have full freedom to do what they want on the field and that is not the case. Coaching calls the plays and tells them where to be and when.

So if Henne had all the time in the world then i could agree with this, or if I actually saw great holes at the right times in a running play I could blame Ricky and ronnie.

But I did not see much of that at all this year.

phins78, ask Poizen, I am no longer a Henne supporter (I feel like the McCarthy inquisitions, having to swear I never was a card-carrying Communist, lol).

And I agree it's bit of a stretch for Mark (whom I have great affection for by the way) and others to blame Marshall even close to as much as Henne.

But who's to blame isn't going to lead to wins next year. How to fix what went wrong will. Henne is the only QB we have right now, and with the CBA, maybe all we have for the season. So he needs to be re-worked. Marshall needs to shut up and catch anything that hits him in the hands. Sparano needs to upgrade his coaching style to help the team win rather than try not to lose. Daboll needs to put everyone in the right place and disguise formations to keep the defense guessing, and the defense needs to continue what it did this year but get more consistent.

If all that happens, next year we'll be discussing who's most responsible for all the wins we have (I know, it's a bit far-fetched, but I'm trying to stay on the positive mindstate).

I see your point Poizen, I just think it's going to take a real leader on offense to turn them around.IMO, That's what Miami is missing.

MartinK, I mean, psuphinphan, column 1 confirmed that Ricky's comments after the season will not have a negative effect on his status with the team -- stuff that has been SPECULATED about on the other blog you like to spend your time on.

Column 2 gave you FROM THE MAN INVOLVED HIMSELF a perspective on a topic (Pat White) that the blog you like to spend your day on has SPECULATED back and forth about with no clear answer. I told you clearly what happened. Feel free to re-read the post.

If that is not enough for you, I suggest you go back to the speculation and leave this blog to those wanting to hear directly from the principles involved in various situations.

Well DC, you hit the nail on the head, and yes, you do not like Henne, I will agree with that.

You know me, just getting fired up, cause i believe Henne has a lot of really good skills.

and not JUST phins78, but there are so many here thatpin last year mostly on him, and i can not disagree more....

oh well, it is what it is.

All I know is this: If Miami doesn't get their ship in order this year, Tony Sparano, tony Jr., and Ireland are gone! Or better be? Watch!
Henne??? I don't think so, unless coaching did him in???

What I would like to see out of Daboll is the use of ALL of the skill players on offense. Last year it seemed like the game plan was centered around 4 or 5 players that got all of the touches, or targets. When we did spread the wealth we played much better offense. These guys that make the team obviously have enough talent to make a roster. Go ahead and use them all. It makes it really easy to defend when the defense knows the ball is only going in a few directions. Look at good offensive teams they get all of their players involved. Not just their "feature players"

To your point DC, just trying to set the stage for 2012 draft so the team would have the balls to move up and get Luck or whoever is the best QB.

phinsphan78, cool, he does need to be a leader and a good one, and that is why i am not sold on my own opinion of him. He seems soft and timid and does not interact with his teammates enough on the field.

Not sure if the last part of that is coaching, but the other points is Henne growing a Sac and being a leader. If that does not happen he is doomed.

marshall did his part. henne overthrew or underthrew way more than marshall dropped passes. it's simple, if marshall has a qb that can get him the ball then marshall will improve and we will see more deep throws that will possibly lead to td's and not field goals. bottom line.

Lex Hilliard and Peyton Hillis have nothing to do with each other. My opinion.

sorry, but his bad skills out weigh his good skills, period!


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