« Ireland says Ricky's coach criticism not an issue | Main | Ireland: Big is good, big and fast is better, and fast is a must »

Ireland on Pat White, Henne-Marshall relationship

Dolphins related tweets and blogs lately have been discussing what really happened in the Pat White situation in the spring of 2009, with the suggestion that all the blame fell on one party or another party for making what is a lingering and painful miss for the Dolphins on the player personnel side.

Some folks are blaming Bill Parcells exclusively. Some people blame general manager Jeff Ireland. Some people absolve both men and blame ... someone else.

In light of the recent rumors and tweets, I asked Ireland during his appearance on the Armando and the Amigo show Friday, what exactly happened with Pat White.

"There's a lot of things that go into why a player that you drafted doesn't work," Ireland said. "Some of those things you can talk about, some of those things you can't talk about. But when we drafted Pat White, like I said in my press conference, Pat White had a unique set of skills. And we wanted to utilize those skills to the best of our ability to help our football team. That did not work out.

"And so we got to move on. We can't come in the office every single day and look at something that's not going to work out. We probably could have kept him and tried to keep working on it but at the time we felt like we had to move on. There's a lot of things you can blame. If you want to blame someone, blame me. I'll take the heat on that.

"But we're moving on and we're going to move on with the players we have on our football team and try to get better in the future."

I know fans want to know exactly whom to blame or credit on certain personnel moves. It is fair because it's about accountability. But I'm getting the feeling Ireland is accepting the blame because he was the one being interviewed.

Yes, he had a major role in taking Pat White. But so did Bill Parcells, who obviously signed off on the selection. So did then quarterback coach David Lee, who pitched White as a player who would bring a new set of skills to the Wildcat package and its evolution into a spread attack similar to the one run by many colleges. Coach Tony Sparano also liked White's promise.

The truth is watching White work his magic for West Virginia got Dolphins folks aflutter. A feverish optimism that it would translate in the pros took hold at the team's training facility.

I have been told it was indeed an organizational decision. Obviously Ireland is taking, as he says, the heat. But it goes further than that.

Why is the White issue even important a full two years after he was drafted?

Well, the Dolphins this offseason find themselves in a position of needing to add a quarterback so they can have insurance for the uncertain abilities and future of Chad Henne.

And so they have to cover old ground because they addressed that insurance need, they thought, by picking White in the second round of the 2009 draft. But White was the most un-Dolphins-like pick in the Parcells-Ireland-Sparano era. He was smallish. He was not exceptionally strong. He was overmatched physically on the field.

Now Miami must use another draft pick to address that need.

In the 640-Sports interview, which you can listen to in its entirety if you click here and go to the Armando and the Amigo podcast, Ireland was also asked about Henne and his relationship with Brandon Marshall.

You remember the two men had uncomfortable exchanges in several games, particularly late in the season. You'll remember toward the end of the season, Marshall made the point that Tyler Thigpen "gets it," about getting him the football while suggesting Henne didn't.

Ireland was asked if a sitdown with Henne and Marshall is in order so they can hash things out, making it possible for them to continue working together.

"Well, I think our coaching staff can help that process move forward in the right direction," Ireland said. "I think those guys, here again, you get emotional and things don't go well and things happen on the football field that can always be mended by production on the football field.

"Those two guys are very important to our offensive production moving forward. And they're going to get on the same page. They're young together. They're growing together and this whole football team needs to mature. That's not just Chad and Brandon. That's our defense, that's our special teams unit, that's our offensive unit, coaching staff, the general manager.

"We all need to mature in this whole thing. So they're just a small piece of that and they'll certainly grow together and provide some production. There's no doubt about that in my mind."

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d83451b26169e20148c81b2d20970c

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Ireland on Pat White, Henne-Marshall relationship:

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

I hate how Ireland makes it sound like Henne is going to be our QB. I just threw up in my mouth.

Phins78/Poizen, DD is exactly right. We need to spread the ball around. They NEVER used Ricky/Ronnie out of the backfield last year (like they were used in '08 and '09, not sure why we got away from that). They hardly EVER used Fasano (like '08). They didn't even look at Cobbs/Hilliard like years past. They need to open things up. 4-5 receiver sets, plenty of options for the QB to go to, downfield routes, middlefield routes, short routes, spread out the defense. Then, if the receiver catches it, there aren't like 5 defenders right there ready to pounce.

This is simple New England football. Proven to work in the AFC East and everywhere else. If I'm a QB, this is like tying my shoes. SIMPLE. Let's get the spread game going and pass it around to everyone. That's how you beat defenses.

We will see. I was just pointing out the two are very similar. Hillis got a chance, and I'm sure he had plenty of doubters. I'm not trying to make this a I told you so contest. I have the opinion that I think this could be the right system for Lex to contribute something if given a chance. Would it be such a bad thing?

me too brandon.

And, I know, we need an oline for a spread offense. Agreed, so get an oline!

Well, Armando, if they(and you) rest the Pat White issue, we'll let it rest forever. Total, that's water down the river.

d'angelo williams is on the dolphins list as a fa pick up.

In your opinon is Jake great in the run game?

Sounds like a load of ireland BS

IF THIS GUY DONT GET A BETTER QUARTERBACK HE WILL LOSE FANS BECUZ THE FANS ARE TIRED OF THE SAME OLE JUNK WITH THE DOLPHINS WE HAVE NOT HAD A C+ QUARTERBACK SINCE JAY FIELDER THEY NEED TO GO AND GET A TOP QUARTERBACK ASAP AND STOP WASTING PEOPLE TIME WITH HENNE LIKE THEY DID PAT WHITE DO HENNE THE SAME IF U YOU DID NOT HAVE TIME TO C IF PAT WOULD WORK OUT WELL YOU SEE HENNE IS NOT THE ANSWER SO STOP WASTING FANS TIME AND GET CARSON PALMER OR VINCE YOUNG ...THEN THE FANS WILL KNOW IF YOU WANT TO WIN OR NOT

I've contacted the EPA about possibly cleaning up the Toxic waste dump in Davie, They promised to make it a "Superfund" Clean up......... Yea.......

First - just like my Jets!

This is ridiculous. Ireland said nothing of value, so either Armando was handcuffed or just didn't ask any interesting questions (or more importantly, demand better answers)...
I have said this before, but I have watched henne since the day he was a freshman starter, and he is the exact same qb he was then. Anyone expecting growth, is unfortunately in for disappointment. Even as a senior he played lights out' against florida in the bowl, but the osu game before was the worst he played all four years....inconsistent. It will not change, it will not get better.
Those of you thinking lex is the answer are fooling yourselves, he is also inconsistent. Is it such a bad thing to think of a rb that can break an 80 yard run? Jeez.
Also, I am sick of this trade down crap, unless it works out like last year and we get an early second and keep A late first. If not, draft a qb (definitely do NOT give up a first next year!) and trade for a rb and let's get to it. More important than anything besides qb and rb, we need another wr, we need a better tight end, and we need a good safety. Ohhh, and obviously we need to fire sparano,, ireland, and daboll, but I guess that has to come later.

Can Daboll relax C. Henne? I don't know but he has a better chance than Henning did(usually older people become mentally rigid with less patience). Still, I recommend Lexapro 10 mg. QAM. It will help Daboll in his task.

Trade down to get second rounder,
1st.Draft WR Blackmon okla state or Julio Jones if he falls,
2nd. Draft Kapernick or Ponder
3d. Best Center available ( oregon c maybe)
Then sign Zach Miller Te OAK
Sign Reggie Bush
Re sign Ronnie Brown
I would like to see something similar.
Trading down is the key , hope they dont blow the load on qb to early , if you must have a qb in 1st. you could still get one late first I believe ( locker , newton , stanzi) and get wide out later in 2nd.

p78, yes, IMO, he is. When they did the Wildcat, usually he'd come across the formation and lead the charge up the middle and usually that's where Ronnie went through a huge hole.

But, I know what you're getting at. He's not the fastest guy in the world. Seems like when they go to his side, he's not quick enough to get out in front and get to the 2nd-level. A) not sure it's the LT's job to get to the 2nd level, B) not sure formations are set correctly and the TE/WR aren't the ones needing to make those 2nd-level blocks. Usually, I see the LT's in the league creating that "seal block" so the RB can get around them. Problem is, our RBs are so-damned slow, only thing they can do is run up the middle. You hardly EVER see them sweep or go off-tackle. That's why we need faster RBs IMO. If we had that, I think you'd see much better blocking from Long.

Shouls drafted M Williams from Tampa last yr like I said.
Why dont you listen to me Ireland , hahahahha

Ohh, and looking at the results of the draft trades we did make me sick. Our gm and co are so interested in drafting and so bad at it at the same time.
I have loved this team since I was born, but if we don't completely Change and make good draft picks for a change, or trade for a qb, then for the first time I say we all band together and boycott these bastards in charge that are apparently burning this village to destroy it.

"we all need to mature in this whole thing."

This includes fans! We need more mature fans.

Matt, in what category are your Jets first in (1st in lack of intelligence)? Pats won the division, Steelers are in the SuperBowl, Brady's a million times better than Sanchez, even Miami has a better defense. So what exactly are you first in?

The digg, getting r bush is a huge mistake, he has underperformed, and by his pricetag is a bust. And Ronnie brown can't stay healthy, I want a back that can carry the load.

Guys, Do you realize that this Buffoon(Ireland)Drafted Pat(TKO)White and Ordick, Why do you think he can draft any talent??, Again the Menace has Zero AND THE MENACE MEANS ZERO confidence in these guys.......Gotta Blame Mr.Hollywood(Ross) here Guys, Dont see any hope till this Idiot sells the team IMHO......

DAYS OF OUR LIFE ................
THE YOUNG AND THE BEAUTIFUL ....................

Ireland sounds more like a political candidate than the guy who asked Dez if his mom was a hooker.

As far as running a spread offense I think we lack a couple key ingredients namely an accurate QB and a TE who can seperate. Oh, and you need your QB in shotgun and Henne isn't comfortable with that from what I've heard.

DC,

I think it was very difficult to use the rb's catching out of the backfield last season because we were so often in max protect. Max protect also keeps the backs in as blockers.

In max protect, Devon Bess was more or less like a rb catching the ball past the line of scrimmage. Max protect also mean often times having only 2 reciever catching passes.

So considering these things who did we have to spread the ball around to in our passing attack last season? Even if we have 4 and 5 wr sets this season. The question remains can someone get open quick enough and would the protection hold up long enough for someone to get open.

If the answer to those 2 thing are a consistent no. We are back to max protect and with only 2 recievers in pass patterns(Marshall, Hartline/Bess) or a trio of Marshall, Hartline/Bess, Fasano or Marshall, Hartline, and Bess.

This is all assuming Hartline and Fasano are still starters at thier respective positions next season.

LIL Aloco, Any new Members in G.O.D??????

I think J. Long is the complete package and then some. I had questions about speed rushers against him, but he has learned and he is extremely tough. There was another OT picked that year(Clancy or something like that) who at that time seemed better than Jake, but not know.

long is a future hof

DB, go read my post @ 4:13pm, and you'll find your answer. You don't NEED max protect. Henning CHOSE max protect because he didn't trust his offensive line and Henne couldn't go out of shotgun (or create enough time for himself).

Closest thing we probably had to a 4 wr set in 2010 was Marshall, Hartline, Bess with Fasano having to stay in helping to pass protect.

New QB = BEtter team. Period.

Slide Pat, slide!! Ooohhhh, too late...

I didn't want to put my foot in my mouth but DCD said it for me. Yes, I believe so too.

DC,

You are correct. Even if we used 4-5 wr sets the qb has to go from the shotgun. That or be very elusive evading the rush. Somehow there has to be time to locate a reciever or give them enough time to get open.

In a 5 wr set, there's only the 5 olinemen left to block and the qb. In a 4 wr set there's 5 olinemen and a rb or te pass protecting.

I HOPE IRELAND WORKING HARD TO GET US GOOD PLAYERS LIKE ODRICK .

One thing I don't understand from last season. If they were so concerned about the rush, why didn't they use 3 steps drop and throw or rollouts by the QB, others? Again, I am far removed from being a football coach but I do have seen a lot of football.

my point was that we have at least one great o-lineman. and IMO a few more average ones. which = to an average or better line.

Oscar you mean Ryan Clady of denver? He got injured last year but i agree long is the best L tackle in football right now

Until last season the greatest achilles heel was going grade C and D in free agency, with the exceptions of injury history olinemen Grove and Smiley. Marshall and Dansby were expensive but were grade A fa's.

Outside of Jake Long only "backup" level draft picks have been spent on the oline. Jerry(3rd rd) is the highest pick spent on the oline since Long(#1 overall). 3rd rd is backup territory but there are cases 3rd picks emerge into high impact starters, but doesnt emerge often enough to feel you have a real starter when selecting a player 3rd rd.

Long is the only one who has any idea on what Henne is doing. And at times he looks at Henne like WTF. just sayin...

DB that's why I think we should go after logan mankins hard. Then we can draft another guard or center or even a right tackle high in the draft.

I also think if we can get Asomugha and put him across from davis our defense will become awesome.

I know its immensely unpopular but this would also be a great time to draft olinemen both 1st and 2nd rd(should we get one). Its time to use quality picks to add quality starters on the oline with Long.

Every single thing on offense starts with a very good line. Both running and passing the ball. Seems whatever area in which your o-line is weak(run or pass), that's exactly where you'll be weak as an entire offensive unit.

Long is the only one who has any idea on what Henne is doing. And at times he looks at Henne like WTF. just sayin...

---------------

Not a Henne fan but do you have specific examples of this or is it something you imagine happening?

Yep, that's him Colorado. Sorry to hear he got hurt.

Boulder,

I agree about Mankins. Problem is that without a cba in place fa will at least come after the draft. So we cant go into the draft assuming we'll get Mankins either. Because there's no guarantee out there that Mankins would even wanna come here.

ok was that first sack that Allen got on him. was that Longs fault? I definitely remember him looking at Henne like WTF. you don't?

He keeps talking about Henne. I maintain that allot of NFL teams would waive Henne in the off season.

the only thing I'm imagining is that Miami is going to acually get a real QB soon.

Those thinking its foolish to trade down and gain a 2nd rd pick. We need to guarantee ourselves the best possible chance of landing at least 1 quality starting olineman. To do this it'll at least cost a 1st or 2nd rounder.

Remember what we got in a 3rd rd pick Jerry and lower rd drafted olinemen before him. Also remember what we have in Long. We need to get another olineman that can be at least 85% as good as Long. These guys dont come cheap as you should have noticed by now.

Reflecting on J. Long, I think it is true that potential is not realized if the player does not learn over the years. Like this kid, S. Smith, I believe he has the potential to dominate a game, but, has he learned in a signicant way over his 2 years? Will he learn?

If Ireland is smart, I believe many fans here will be absolutely shocked when we trade back, gain a 2nd rd pick and select an offensive lineman 1st rd.

This is a very real scenario simply because without a cba fa comes after the draft. Meaning it would be very unwise to hold our nuts on Logan Mankins. But if we were still able to land Mankins it will become a greatly appealing extra added bonus.

This draft has the possibility to resemble this fo 1st 2008 draft. It's entirely possible to again see an offensive lineman drafted 1st and a qb 2nd.

Db...I agree with your logic, makes sense to build up the utility players to be ready to add the flash players later. Look at Marshall, he is not nearly as valuable on this current team as he would be on a more developed team - one that has solid oline, better running game, ect. So...as much as flash is tempting...we aint there yet. I'd be content if they traded all their draft picks for picks next year, but if they can solidify the core of the team, makes us better and is doing a favor for the next coach that is most likely coming in 2012.

"And so we got to move on. We can't come in the office every single day and look at something that's not going to work out. We probably could have kept him and tried to keep working on it but at the time we felt like we had to move on. There's a lot of things you can blame. If you want to blame someone, blame me. I'll take the heat on that."

So my question if that's what Ireland said about Pat White, doesnt that apply to Henne as well?

ok was that first sack that Allen got on him. was that Longs fault? I definitely remember him looking at Henne like WTF. you don't?

Posted by: phinsfan78 | January 28, 2011 at 05:34 PM
----------------------

No.

Not saying it isn't possible, but I think as fans we sometimes imagine things that aren't really happening or project our own ideas onto things and see what we WANT to see.

Without actually being there, I can't make up scenarios that may or may not be true.

what is not true?

And then, we beguin to realize that the Art of pro football Drafting goes way beyond selecting physical ability...

d-dense,

A smart gm will never talk his players down just in case there's some trade interest somewhere out there. No one gives anything for a player you've already made it clear you wanna discard.

If you publically pronounce a player as a piece of s*hit then who the hell would wanna give you anything for his services. You always wanna throw the deception out there that the player is at least serviceble or salvageble.

"We probably could have kept him and tried to keep working on it but at the time we felt like we had to move on."

So they pretty much gave up on Pat White is what this is telling me.

Pat White did not get enough opportunity in my opinion to actually show anything in actual games. He overthrow players on an inconstant basis huh? Sound familiar... ahem...cough...Chad Henne...cough. Pat White only threw around 10 passing in an actual game. 10 passes is not enough to judge.

And please don't give me that crap about him being too small. DeShawn Jackson doesn't seem to have a problem with that.

I'm saying the whole "Long looking at Henne and going WTF" scenario is just as likely your imagining what happened as something definitive.

I would certainly say there were demonstrable times Marshall was upset with Henne and/or the overall offense. That was clear. With Long, I saw nothing blatant in that regard.

« 1 2 3 4 5 »

The comments to this entry are closed.