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Ireland on Pat White, Henne-Marshall relationship

Dolphins related tweets and blogs lately have been discussing what really happened in the Pat White situation in the spring of 2009, with the suggestion that all the blame fell on one party or another party for making what is a lingering and painful miss for the Dolphins on the player personnel side.

Some folks are blaming Bill Parcells exclusively. Some people blame general manager Jeff Ireland. Some people absolve both men and blame ... someone else.

In light of the recent rumors and tweets, I asked Ireland during his appearance on the Armando and the Amigo show Friday, what exactly happened with Pat White.

"There's a lot of things that go into why a player that you drafted doesn't work," Ireland said. "Some of those things you can talk about, some of those things you can't talk about. But when we drafted Pat White, like I said in my press conference, Pat White had a unique set of skills. And we wanted to utilize those skills to the best of our ability to help our football team. That did not work out.

"And so we got to move on. We can't come in the office every single day and look at something that's not going to work out. We probably could have kept him and tried to keep working on it but at the time we felt like we had to move on. There's a lot of things you can blame. If you want to blame someone, blame me. I'll take the heat on that.

"But we're moving on and we're going to move on with the players we have on our football team and try to get better in the future."

I know fans want to know exactly whom to blame or credit on certain personnel moves. It is fair because it's about accountability. But I'm getting the feeling Ireland is accepting the blame because he was the one being interviewed.

Yes, he had a major role in taking Pat White. But so did Bill Parcells, who obviously signed off on the selection. So did then quarterback coach David Lee, who pitched White as a player who would bring a new set of skills to the Wildcat package and its evolution into a spread attack similar to the one run by many colleges. Coach Tony Sparano also liked White's promise.

The truth is watching White work his magic for West Virginia got Dolphins folks aflutter. A feverish optimism that it would translate in the pros took hold at the team's training facility.

I have been told it was indeed an organizational decision. Obviously Ireland is taking, as he says, the heat. But it goes further than that.

Why is the White issue even important a full two years after he was drafted?

Well, the Dolphins this offseason find themselves in a position of needing to add a quarterback so they can have insurance for the uncertain abilities and future of Chad Henne.

And so they have to cover old ground because they addressed that insurance need, they thought, by picking White in the second round of the 2009 draft. But White was the most un-Dolphins-like pick in the Parcells-Ireland-Sparano era. He was smallish. He was not exceptionally strong. He was overmatched physically on the field.

Now Miami must use another draft pick to address that need.

In the 640-Sports interview, which you can listen to in its entirety if you click here and go to the Armando and the Amigo podcast, Ireland was also asked about Henne and his relationship with Brandon Marshall.

You remember the two men had uncomfortable exchanges in several games, particularly late in the season. You'll remember toward the end of the season, Marshall made the point that Tyler Thigpen "gets it," about getting him the football while suggesting Henne didn't.

Ireland was asked if a sitdown with Henne and Marshall is in order so they can hash things out, making it possible for them to continue working together.

"Well, I think our coaching staff can help that process move forward in the right direction," Ireland said. "I think those guys, here again, you get emotional and things don't go well and things happen on the football field that can always be mended by production on the football field.

"Those two guys are very important to our offensive production moving forward. And they're going to get on the same page. They're young together. They're growing together and this whole football team needs to mature. That's not just Chad and Brandon. That's our defense, that's our special teams unit, that's our offensive unit, coaching staff, the general manager.

"We all need to mature in this whole thing. So they're just a small piece of that and they'll certainly grow together and provide some production. There's no doubt about that in my mind."

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Fire who, Georgia C.?

ALoco..Now I am willing to admit when I have said something that turned out to be wrong. But you made that up that I said Sparano would be coach of the year....Come on now.

Watching NFL network.....they mentioned Holgrem,,,,,

In hindsight did any make a bigger mistake.....he should have stayed in Green Bay.....in my opinion he is the the BP want to be.....jump from team to team and telling everyone how smart he is....

I think Owner's ars starting to wak up to this act.....to bad we had to set the example.....

Not sure anyone can judge a qb's future on 21 snaps is my issue with pat white.

Just because a "stealer" laid the wood to him with a headshot he's weak? Hate the "stealers" but they seem to do that every weak with big or small players.

"If that is not enough for you, I suggest you go back to the speculation and leave this blog to those wanting to hear directly from the principles involved in various situations"

Thats fine, but what about tougher questions?

Like " why did Pat white only get 21 snaps and do you think that's enough time to evaluate a qb in the nfl?"


Well when Bill Parcells and Jeff Ireland began finding charred glass from broken window and footballs Pat White had thrown in thier offices. Adding in that thier offices are on the opposite end of the building from the practice field.

Then I guess you can safely safe after 21 snaps it was time for Pat White to go. LOL...............

Butterflies in Coconut Grove were phoning Parcells and complaining how wildly errant Pat White throws narrowly missed them.

The Pope cancelled all future summer trips to Miami because as long as it was football season and Pat White was there. His safety and security could not be guaranteed! LOL..........

Corners,,,,U agree with you.....almost daily on this blog its said that we "3 years" to evaluate Henne...its like Gospe; around here....but these same "3 year" guys don't ever extend that courtesy to Pat White...let alone mention him.....How many years did Beck get BTW?

We love Henne because he is the strongest armed QB since Marino.....in my opinion.....and thats why the die-hard Henne Fans seem to put him in front of the team

Butterflies in Coconut Grove complaining escaping narrow misses from errant Pat White throws is a huge problem. The practice field is in Davie. LOL...............

Kris,

On his best outings Henne will give us about 8-10 combined minutes of great football. Even when he falls flat on his face he teases us with a combined 3-4 minutes of great football.

The problem is that an offense is usually on the field for 25-30 minutes per game or more. If your offense is on the field less than 22 minutes it's most likely they truly sucked that day.

True DB...and i'm not here to carry the Pat White flag....my point is only this....we don't know what we don't know....

The most frustating thing for me was that when White did get to play....in that Pitt game....they NEVER let him throw....all of those plays were designed draw plays meant for him to fun.....what was the point of that.....the game was meaningless....they might as well have found out if he could loosen up and play.....

I don't fault him for thos WC misses....It has to be hard comming of the bench cold....and getting ONE SHOT a game to hit a WR...when everone and their mom new it was comming....

There have been no reported Bermuda Triangle disappearances while White was in Miami. I guess he knocked hell outta the aliens responsible for them during a 7 on 7 passing drill at Davie.

Pat White should be deemed a national hero for this. With his errant throws he single handily ended all Bermuda Triangle disappearances. There should be a Pat White Day in Miami!

Kris,

You never know. Maybe Sparano wouldnt let White throw a pass during the Pitt game because he had his wife and mother sitting in the luxury boxes.

Or maybe Air Force One was in the area at an unspecified time that day. So there were no fly restrictions and the Secret Service feared Pat White passes were huge security risks to the Prez.

Who the hell knows why. Maybe even that question itself is classified top secret! LOL..........

OK, I admit it. Drafting Pat White was MY fault.
I can't help it. I relish players who can be broken in half by a normal NFL linebacker.

Add the fact he played for West Virginia, who since the graduation of Jerry West haven't turned out an athlete with an IQ above a guava.
Pac Mac Jones comes to mind.

If the above IMA factoid is incorrect, I stand corrected.
I just have to think, when Ireland said "some of those things you CAN'T talk about." he was referring to Whites junk, but his inability to grasp simple offensive concepts.

Easy to joke about White, real easy. I will say there is a highlight film on YouTube of his college play that looks quite impressive, seriously. Yeah, college, not the NFL. Aside from White, the simple point Kris and others are making, is all those blind love blind faith Henne bloggers insist we need to give him 3 years to really know, but those same bloggers don't insist we needed to give Thig, White, Beck...3 years, because they just know better. Its hypocritical, a contradiction, thats all.

Whoa, bad typos.
I meant "hasn't turned out"
Also, I meant that Ireland was NOT referring to White's junk, but his inability to grasp simple offensive concepts.
I need to slow down on the coffee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks 0x80...that is exactly the point I was trying to make.....

0x80,

Have to remember we only went a couple years between losing Griese and findind Marino. Fans quickly went Bob who? Until Marino's brilliant career came to close counting zero championship rings.

The bridge from Marino to our next great qb has now made a cross coutry drive seem like a walk around the block. It's been so long now fans are willing to believe in even Tinkerbell. Especially if she put on the shoulder pads and laced up a pair of cleats. LOL......

The patriots are gonna load up and retool their defense maybe throw in a playmaker for brady.The jets,well,I don't see them getting any better.I think they have peaked with the players they have and a little rebuild is on the way.Buffalo is eh Buffalo.We need henne to step up or step aside for the new guy that I belive is comming.At least we did not get rid of nolan.

0x80,

Actually I was shocked BP drafted Henne. All he was at Michigan was a tease and almost always played down to the level of competition.
Same old pattern still exists.

Henne just seems to have zero killer instincts. He only seems to play a little better after the other team scores and the larger lead we get the worse he begans to play.

He was the exact same way at Michigan!

Hene will still be on the team in 2011. But I highly doubt he'll be resigned in 2012. I have seen zero evidence to state he's gotten any better than the Chad Henne at Michigan.

Sure he'll at times tease you. But folks thats about it. With Henne at the controls we'll always have nearly as great a chance of losing to a team 10 times inferior as to a team thats 10 times inferior. Henne is famous for playing down to the competition.

I can almost guarantee Henne wont be a Dolphin in 2012 unless something divine and miraculous happens to him in 2011. Just dont hold your breaths expecting on it.

"as a team 10 times superior to us"

I don't watch much college ball, so my draft day expertise amounts to looking at the YouTube videos of the key players. Henne apparently dropped much lower than anyone expected, so I think they took him thinking it was a good value. Who knows, maybe Long, his teammate, put in some good words for him too. Now the shocking thing is they have had him 3 years and didn't have a viable true 2nd string starter on the roster. Inexcusable. One can also arguably go back and say the single biggest fault with this franchise was not having a serious backup plan A.M. (after Marino). So from there each coach thought they were clever enough to wing it without spending a 1st round pick on a bona fide starting QB, and in the end was the downfall of all of them.

Plus Henne has shown that if you're stuck in a rut he's not the guy to get you out of it. Evidenced by his 1-7 2010 record at home.

Enuff said! LOL.................

I refer to Henne as a punch clock QB. Punch in, do what they tell me (well I did what they asked!), and punch out. He plays great for 1 out of every 5 quarters, just enough to give you hope, while constantly letting you down. Who knows, maybe a new staff will be all he needs, but he needs to show that quickly. I say by game 3 we should know for certain one way or the other about him.

0x80,

Henne didnt drop. It was more his ability to tease with all of the tools he had that kept him from falling even further than 2nd rd. The guy could look like the Heisman trophy finalist on some drives. Then on other's leaving you wondering how a guy at times looks so brilliant can possibly look so awful.

With all of the jekle-hyde performances even the experts probably were confused as were to accurately grade him for that draft.

DB...sounds like you were already dialed in to what we are now seeing with Henne. I thought (could be wrong) he had some injury that made him drop so far. For what its worth, Mel Kiper was recently corroborating the very same things you are saying now.

Armando,

Could you interview PAT WHITE and get his side of the story?

Assuming he has no intention of coming back to the NFL in any capacity, then he shouldn't hold back the truth of what really happened.

I and many other Fin fans that were expecting and hoping to see him play like he did in college in the pro level want to know if:

1) the coaches asked him to play other positions and he said no thank you
2) he thought he wasn't given a true opportunity
3) he considered going the CFL route and coming back to the NFL later
4) he wasn't a good fit for the Fins system
4) he just finally realized that he has more money potential in baseball with less headaches

I do remember everyone saying that he had to get bigger and stronger. Williams and another player were quoted that he was in the best shape when last season spring practices started. Even Sparano made positive comments.

I never had the opportunity to watch practices or see for myself in any capacity that he was a wasted pick because he played terrible at everything that he did. It's all been heresay from other fans, bloggers and writers. Other "wasted picks" strangely find new life elsewhere. The coaches here pull the plug on players either too soon or too late.

was henne or brian brohm

0x80,

I watched lots of Michigan games when Henne was there. Michigan though not my favorite team, were one of my favorites.

Check for yourself, back during Henne's tenure there they always were upset by a team in comparison to the Knitting Club For Wayward Grannies. Henne almost always saved his absolute worst game for an opponent they were suppose to beat by 50 td's and lose.

I have to admit I was high on this team in the pre-season blogs. (I didn't blog after that but read them throughout the season). I'm going to put my 2 cents in:

Cent #1: Chad Henne needs to learn the fine art of the pump fake....period

Cent #2: We will not win with Sparano, that much is evident now unless 2 things happen.

Thing #1: Don't play to lose
Thing #2: Pray to God there is a lockout.

I know thing #2 doesn't make sense but at least it gives him more time to "think" up ways to win or lose more weight. At least one person goes out a winner.

who else here thinks that the Dolphins are going to get either McNabb or Young as a plug-in QB and pick up a long-term in the Draft?

Sparano seems to coach with fear of success, as though winning might feel to good. Preserve the chance for a FG at all possible costs. He seems afraid of contracting some disease if he lets loose. My advice....maybe wear a condom during game day, he'll feel an extra sense of protection.

I don't want Young but I have to admit after the season he had this past year (his best statistically) he could...I stress could... be an answer.

sparano will be gone after another mediocre season

nice 0x80....latex or sheepskin?

Had we not drafted Henne in 2008 we were still screwed. We went 11-5 and drafted 25th in 2009. In 2009 we selected Vontae Davis.

We may have still ended up drafting Pat White in the 2nd rd in 2009. Damn! LOL..........

Wasn't Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco drafted after our Vontae Davis pick?

What we are seeing with this organization is Comedy Central, Monty Python, Benny Hill. If they succeed it will be one more testament to how crazy life is. Ross blew it with his inexperience, didn't know how to go about luring the coach you want. Personally, it appears to me TS is now being setup to fail, he appears to have lost the team, he will have no chance to win, and Ross will actually fire him early in order to lure a true HC.

I am a 66 y/, old fxrt looking for a 25-30 y/o woman of any race, color or creed for dinning, dancing, movies, ballet and the theater, who will help me forget that I have supported this sorry bunch of loser and misfits we call the Miami Dolphins for the past 25 years. Please reply as soon as possible before I get deeper into depression and never recover again. You can reach me at 305-43.....5.........6?......
F@#K, I forgot again.

AlexG,

Ryan and Flacco were 2008 with Henne. Remember the Jake Long or Matt Ryan debate?

xerxes go away already...you are not even entertaining yourself at this point.

sorry sorry....2008 draft Ryan #4 Flacco #18 we drafted Long #1

Vontae was 2009

worst organization in nfl right now, hands down

damn...I think all this time away and I forgot how to blog..

you know that could be a sad but true statement Bill....sad but true

0x80,

I know its popular opinion but I dont think Sparano lost the team. Too many things were equally contributing factors.

We had injuries, poor oline play/injuries, inconsistent qb play, play calling issues. All of these things dogged us from beginning to end in 2010.

Sometimes at the very end the bridge just totally collapses underneath all of the longterm pressures.

Jay Fiedler with this team actually could have done some damage.... when anyone starts wishing for Fiedler I believe it breaks one of the seals for Armageddon to come...

fiedler did one thing pretty good, he won

DB, fair enough, but I actually respect Ricky's opinion more than most do, and I don't think he is a flake. Having JT corroborate what he said is good enough for me. Now, we bring in mostly inexperienced coaches, Tony's son....not sure how that will fly with the team. Look, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but I will tell you the pressure is on. If he starts out 1-3, 2-5, he will lose the team for sure. I like the guy, just don't think he is HC material or ever will be. You need to be able to lead all the coordinators as well as the players, and he has shown himself to be incapable of that.

Great thing about this offseason's blog and those of the few years past. At least this offseason we almost exclusively wont go into the 2011 season with a false sense of hope.

Maybe this might be the best thing to happen for both fans and players alike. I think the players also went into 2010 thinking they were much better than they actually were.

Now maybe they go into this season feeling they actually have something to prove instead feeding on the hype of how great they think they actually are. Maybe this season we get addition by attrition!

yes dying now when i say miami will go ? i wont get accused of not being a fan like last year when i predicted 7-9. people started calling me names and sayin i was a jet fan. it was crazy

0x80,

Maybe we have differing perception levels but I never read where JT nor Ricky said Sparano lost the team. They both confirmed Sparano micro-manages far to much. That's a long strive to hop all the way to meaning he lost the team.

That would mean he lost the team game 1. Im sure he micro-managed during camp and preseason too.

In a parallel universe Pat White completed all of the passes they penciled in for him in 2009. He beat out Henne for the starting QB in 2010 and will be facing the Packers in the upcoming SB.

His success with the spread option used in most high schools and colleges throughout the US has every team looking for the next great spread offense QB. Most believe that Newton is a can't miss pick.

Damn. I can dream, right?

How the hell will the draft for 2012 happen if there is a lock-out for 2011? Who picks first. Cause I think we are all in agreement that this Lock-out will happen.

swamy where have u heard that? all i have heard is newton is nowhere near a slam dunk pick. hes only played 14 games, not very good accuracy. slow throwing motion

DB... Did I get carried away? Yeah, I think I did. I'll agree with you. However.....I think he has to do an awful lot at this point to NOT lose the team. Maybe that is what I really wanted to say.

I realistic expect we can go 9-7 in 2011 and still be much beter than 2010's team. I say 9-7 at best because I dont expect us to find a significant answer at qb that will significantly help at qb next year.

Henne returning at starter wont, a retread vet wont, and a rookie qb wont. That's why I expect 9-7 tops. It could be more around 8-8. But even to do this is predicated on bringing in the right talent thru draft and fa.

I still dont see us fully getting over the qb hurdle in 2011. We may have 12-4/11-5 like talent on the roster but still wont have the right qb to make it show up in our overall record.

it will happen alex, but at some point they will agree. might only play 8 games, but they will have a season

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