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Dolphins are already in draft trade-down mode

The 2011 draft is three months away and already the Dolphins seem willing to trade away the No. 15 overall selection they have in the first round.

General manager Jeff Ireland is hoping, indeed perhaps expecting, to regain the second round pick the Dolphins lack in the coming draft. That pick went to Denver in the trade that sent Miami's 2010 and 2011 second round picks to the Broncos for receiver Brandon Marshall.

"You obviously know you don't have [a second-rounder] right now," Ireland said. "But like you've seen in the past, there's ways to get it back and you're obviously looking to try to do that. So as of right now we don't have one, but who knows on game day, draft day, if we'll have one."

In the past, there were a number of ways Ireland could attack the idea of getting back that second-round pick. He could study his roster and identify a player he might be willing to part with for that pick. That is out of the question for the time being, and likely for quite a while to come.

The NFL's uncertain labor situation has made the idea of trading veteran players moot. Those fanciful speculations about the Dolphins acquiring Kevin Kolb or Kyle Orton or anyone for that matter is kind if ridiculous because no NFL team can trade anyone away or trade for anyone right now. Those moves do not happen until the new league year begins in March and, even then, there will be no such moves allowed unless there is a new labor deal in place.

All the experts are saying there will be no such deal in place by then. Or by draft day. Or possibly before July or August.

Fact is the NFL has already told teams that even though it will go forward with a draft, as of right now no players can be exchanged before that draft, during that draft, or after that draft. So trading a veteran to get back that valuable second-round pick simply isn't an option.

That means Ireland will likely have only two options for getting back that second round pick and the first option isn't all that palatable. That first option is for the Dolphins to trade a future pick or picks for a second round pick in 2011. In other words, it is conceivable the Dolphins could trade their 2012 first rounder for a 2011 second rounder.

It doesn't sound like a great value, does it? That is why it is possible but not highly likely.

The more likely scenario is for Ireland to put a for sale sign on that No. 15 first round pick in 2011. He can hope to trade that mid-round first rounder for late first-rounder plus a late second-rounder. Or he can hope to trade that first-rounder for an early second-rounder plus a late second-rounder, depending on what other teams are offering.

The point would be to get a two-for-one for that No. 15 overall pick.

Yes, the Dolphins have done it before. Last year, Bill Parcells held the No. 12 overall pick but no second-rounder because of that Marshall trade. So he traded that pick plus a sixth round selection to the San Diego Chargers for their first rounder (28th overall), plus their second-rounder (40th overall), plus their fourth-rounder, plus linebacker Tim Dobbins.

It looked like a solid move until Jared Odrick, the player the Dolphins selected with the 28th overall selection only one game for the team before getting hurt. (By the way, Odrick had surgery on fractured leg and then had an injury on his other leg but finally started running again this week, according to a source.)

The Dolphins have made four trade-up or trade-down moves since Parcells-Ireland-Tony Sparano began running drafts in 2008. All but one of the moves was a trade-down.

Aside from the trade-down last year, they had a 2009 trade-down in the second round with Indianapolis to pick up a a lower second rounder and a fifth round selection. That trade netted Miami Sean Smith and Chris Clemons.

They also traded down during the third round of the 2008 draft to get back a lower third rounder plus a sixth rounder. That trade netted them Kendall Langford and Jalen Parmalee.

The trade ups?

They traded up in 2008's fourth round, giving up their fourth-rounder and a seventh-rounder to Chicago for the right to take Shawn Murphy.

The Dolphins are apparently not in trade up mode this year. They want to recover that second rounder lost to Denver. The Dolphins are in trade down mode.

Already.

By the way, Ireland will be a guest on my radio show, Armando and the Amigo, Friday morning in the 9 o'clock hour. You can listen live in South Florida at 640-AM. Or you can listen streaming live online here. I'll report back to you if he says something newsworthy either here at the blog or on twitter. So please follow me.

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Trade Langford & your #1 for a 2 & 4 this year & a 1 next year.

we knew nolan carroll had a broken leg in college but i dont think ireland was aware of odricks broken leg. we passed on safety earl thomas and WR dez bryant among others to grab odrick/misi??? why didnt we draft 1-2 tight ends like the pats? ireland is terrible. in this his 4th year he now wants speed;up to now he wanted prototypical size. last year it was defense (10 LB's;this year it will be offense. where's the balance?

wu1, i agree. when you look at the teams behind miami there are two that stand out as possibilities for trading down. one is seattle and the other is kansas city. if they can make either work and give up a future draft choice in addition instead of parting with one this year they would have a mid second round pick which could put them in the hunt for someone like jernigan.

odrick creates a lot of double teams because he is hard to block one on one. dez bryant was hurt coming out of college and now he is hurt again. the guy looks good but, like i said, if miami picks up torrey smith everyone will be saying, "dez who"? anyway, if the fins truly draft for speed like ireland said they are looking to do smith, jernigan and locke are three they need to be looking at along with randall cobb. if they can pick up three of those guys along with kendall hunter or bilal powell and get a couple OL they did good.

Wahhh look at all the Dol-fagguts up early

Already crying like babies cause Sparano is coach

They didn't get their way so they hoping for failure

Wahhhhh, here is mummy's tittie for ya

if you watched the senior bowl practice mayock mentioned jon baldwin but all things being equal the better way for the fins to go if they have the chance would be torrey smith. baldwin is a big, tall receiver but when he catches the ball he tends to go down immediately if he is contacted by a defender rather than trying to shake him off. smith, however, tries to run thru defenders. i like his attitude better plus he has more speed.

joe didn't you read the article. you can't trade players. But if we could I think starks would be great trade bait

I don't know how I feel about trading down again - I guess it depends on whether we get the Brandon Marshall we got last year or the one that played in Denver.

Because for 2 years now, it looks like we are trading down to re-coup those picks that we gave away for the roided up Davonne Bess.

By trading down, we missed on elite talents last year like Earl Thomas (Parcells probably wouldn't have picked him anyway because he's short). I think the team has done well with drafting overall but it has just netted us soldiers (which we need) - if they draft anything but playmakers (or an OT) I will be really upset.

I think Newton wont be available anyway. I see a buffalo, Cincy or maybe cards getting him. Thank goodness those teams have almost as much stupudity as we do. Mark my words Cam is the next Jamacus Russell. Hes looking for the quick buck and he will not have the work ethic neccesary for the NFL. We should look for free agency on a quick fix at QB.

dm1 - you are right about Baldwin - excellent receiver but he is what we have so much of already - he has ZERO speed.

parcells would never draft newton. he only likes players who have played a ton of games at the college level. newton will be a bust anyways. if parcells took a qb it would be a senior like locker

Boulder, yes, I did read the article. However, my idea or wish was based on the hope that an agreement will be reached in time.

If this year is gonna be lackluster as allot of people think, the best thing to do is try to acquire 2 #1's next year to get some top end talent. I'm TRYING to be optimistic about the labor situation.

No way I trade Starks either. Starks has shown he can be a borderline stud DE. He worked at NT all off season. Get him back to DE for the offseason & I think we can see a production like in 09. Langford has proven to be an adequate DE. Plus he'll have an expiring contract. I'd rather lose him as long as Mcdaniles gets resigned.

davone bess was an undrafted free agent signee. we didn't give up anything to sign him.

We need as many picks as we can get to find as much offensive talent as possible. None of the so called top QBs are an upgrade over Henne and arent worth the risk with the 15th pick. The next tier QBs have as good a chance or better than the top tier guys of making it and we can get one of them in the middle rounds.

parcells is out of the picture. he doesn't have any say in who the fins draft this year. that's a good thing.

dm1, my nickname for Brandon Marshall is the roided up Davonne Bess because he wasn't anything more than a possession receiver last year.

GAfin you're absolutely right. even mike mayock admitted during senior bowl practice that the guys ranked as the top five aren't necessarily going in the first rd. he said of jake locker,"teams are wondering if the light is going to go on when he is in the huddle. my guess is it won't go on." he also said mallet could end up sliding into at least the 2nd because of his poor decision making. locker has never had a year where he completed more than 60% of his passes. that's a benchmark for nfl qb's. need to be better than that. and you're right about one other thing. of all the qb's coming out this year the next teir has just as much chance of succeeding as the top five.

sorry mark. didn't make the connection.

Like an earlier poster said if the 1st round grade QBs are gone at 15 I'm all for trading down.

By the way I've figured out our top draft pick strategy. Take our position of least need - DL, CB, you make the call. Then take the 5th best available at that position. It's too complicated to understand and I'm not the smartest guy so I can't explain it to you.

I think we need to trade Odrick! With Solia play so well we can move Starks back to end. Don't make him play NT. Not kewl!!
Ok wrap your head around this!! What draft pick would sell the most tickets?? Answer.... Cam Newton! No tuna. Maybe Ross makes them make the call. They need to do a half back option pass every series. I do this in my flag league and we only lost 1 game Last year. Newton could do this. He could run or throw. Hell he could throw it back to Henne. Listen. Take my idea. I don't care we have to put up numbers and excitement next year. I think they should try it. Pat white would have done good at this. Just they have to throw it the first time they touch it so the D will know they will!!
Oh and Godell. Nice try but $1 is just no gonna convince anyone to sign a paper.
Oh an cam wake for president!!!

none of the qbs should grade first round. they have gabbert as the best?? come on, that guy has never even takin a snap from under center

here's a hypo. if miami takes jernigan in the 2nd and picks up either kerley or salas in a later rd does bess become expendable?

I don't think anyone's down on Odrick's POTENTIAL. But right now, that's all it is. He got injured recouping from an injury. That's not a good start for your first-round pick a year ago. That's the type of start that players like Channing Crowder have had. Everyone's down on Crowder for exactly that, "he plays well when he's in, but he's injured so much he's only a part-time option." If Odrick becomes a part-timer like Crowder, who cares what he does the 4-6 weeks he plays a year. We need guys that can play 16 weeks (or as close to it as possible) every year for the next few years. At least Misi PLAYED all year. Same for Sean Smith and Vontae Davis and even, yes, Chad Henne. Best thing to say about Henne is he's a tough guy and isn't injured by a blade of grass.

phinsman, SELL TICKETS??? Are you a Find fan or a businessman? Cam Newton sells tickets and we lose games. Screw selling tickets, win games and people will show up.

solia is a free agenbt. they HAVE to resign him and mcdaniels

Agreed bill. There's still lots of good talent on this team. Defense has most of it, but offense has good talent too. A few ON POINT additions can really change things around here. But the coaching needs to stay out of the way of progress, and the injury bug needs to cease, and guys REALLY need to be professionals this offseason and make sure they are doing the things they need to do to stay in shape and be ready when/if there's a next season.

DC, until we address the QB decision, it won't matter how good we are elsewhere. we can load up to the t*ts but it still won't matter. Unless you are perfect as the 2000 Ravens, it won't matter.

By the way, if the Ravens had played a real schedule that year, they would not have made the playoffs let alone won the Superbowl. I saw on NFL films that they didn't play a single QB during that regular season of any worth whatsoever. So for example, if they played in this year's AFC east - they would've been 7-9 too.

mark come on that ravens d was unreal. they rolled through everyone in the playoffs. killed the giants

If we do get a trade down picks I like:
1st Derrek Sherrod OT/ Corey Liuget DT / Nate Solder OT
2nd Hankerson WR/ Kaepernick QB / Kyle Rudolph TE
3rd Demarco Murray RB/ Jaquizz Rodgers RB
4th Rob Housler TE/ Luke Stocker TE / Christian Ponder QB/ Andy Dalton QB
5th Lee Ziemba OG/ Jake Kirkpatrick C
6th Henry Hynoski FB/ John Clay RB
7th Mark Legree FS/ DeMarcus Van Dyke CB

Mark, you know I'm with you, but I'm trying to make hot dogs from lips and *ssholes here bud.

I understand the strategy of losing to ultimately get better, but I hate seeing Miami lose. I'd really rather they improve (even slightly) this year.

Hopefully Odrick comes back and is injury free so we can judge him accordingly.

I am worried that he injured himself so easily during rehab.

It's the kind of thing that can linger sometimes. I'd love nothing more than to see him do very well next year. Just not confident that will happen.

They need to do this again this year.

"Last year, Bill Parcells held the No. 12 overall pick but no second-rounder because of that Marshall trade. So he traded that pick plus a sixth round selection to the San Diego Chargers for their first rounder (28th overall), plus their second-rounder (40th overall), plus their fourth-rounder, plus linebacker Tim Dobbins".

Greg Salas WR from Hawaii I'm also high on in the 5th rd

DC, I appreciate your attitude but I am through being the good soldier until I see QB play improve dramatically, heck I would even take the Chad Henne we had at midseason that had us ranked 15th in passing offense.

Bill, I agree that they were unreal in the postseason, but look at the regular season. They went something like not scoring a TD in 4 straight weeks. Can't have that happen nowadays.

beerphin, I like your draft and would take it in a heartbeat even though it doesn't contain that 1st round talent at QB. It does shore up a lot of other positions though. And as far as Qb, there's always next year, right ....sigh.

I hope Odrick does not become the new Yatil Green.
Remember him? Our #11 pick and NEVER played a down for Miami and was out of the NFL after two years.
The Draft is a crap shoot and thus far Ireland gets a C+ in my book.

If a CBA is not in place by the draft and we cannot claim a QB off the FA wire, then I suggest we draft a solid RB @ #15 and get a QB after the draft.

"The Dolphins are apparently in trade up mode this year. They want to recover that second rounder lost to Denver. The Dolphins are in trade down mode."

What? Is it just me or do the 1st

iPhone app causing my comments to be cut. CORRECTION
What? Is it just me or do the 1st and 3rd sentences contradict 1 another? Typo?

So are the Dolphins in trade-up, or trade-down mode? If they want to recover their #2 pick then they must be looking to move down, but that second-to-last paragraph seems to say they're in both!

If any of the top 4 QBs were to fall to late 1st/ 2nd then of course i'd have them up there too those picks were w/ the assumption that they are all gone... Mallet could fall

Odrick's a Frikkin Joke!

I bet that it's "discovered" this summer, or by no later than the first reg season game, that his bone condition is chronic & will prevent him from playing a full season.

Blah, more of the same, I don't know why we would expect anything different. Einstein must be rolling in his grave, he had it right with his definition of insanity. I wonder if part of the money season ticket holders pay is reserved for straitjackets.

We should treat Odrick like the Colts should do with Bob Sanders which is, deactivate him all year until the playoffs LOL

Hey beerphin, liked your list, if we trade down and can come away with Rudolph and Hankerson as our two picks, I would be very happy. Big time TE and Speedy WR kills two birds with one stone and makes this offense better immediately

Mark, just trying to be realistic with this mgmt team/coaching staff. They're already talkin' about moving back, to me that signifies they're either not thrilled with the QB talent or aren't serious about upgrading through the draft. Maybe they're looking to FA, but I'm like you, I'd like to get it every which way until we get it right.

ESPN did an analysis of all AFC East QBs, and Henne (as we knew) was 4th in the division (out of 4 teams). A guy who tried to get him to go to Pitt in college said he had probably the worst season out of anyone he was looking at and had high hopes for. He blamed some of that on coaching, but said Henne probably needs a change of scenery (but we can't get rid of him right now because he'd have no trade value, plus he's our only signed QB).

And these guys want ANOTHER 2nd or later round QB because all our others have done such a great job for us.

Considering the state of this team and the lack of positive momentum, might as well take some risks.

1. Give Ronnie a contract and tell him to get his body ready to help carry this team next year.
2. Ronnie and Lex become the new dynamic duo.
3. Keep Henne to compete as starter.
4. Draft Cam Newton or Colin Kaepernick and work on them to run the wildcat in a new and explosive fashion. Either of them could give a serious rebirth to the wildcat. If they show promise, let them start.
5. Use newton or Kaepernick with Ronnie Brown, swapping the QB and Ronnie as the snap taker in the wildcat. Keep the QB in on most plays!
6. If Newton or Kaepernick are ready, continue working with Henne as a change of pace #2 QB. Sort of like they tried using the wildcat as a changeup. Just use him for shotgun passing downs occasionally when you want to throw off the opposing defense.
4. If Newton or Kaepernick aren't ready to go this year, let Henne try to prove himself one more time, or try to pick up another veteran in free agency.
5. Trade down the 15th pick for a couple picks and anything else you can get for it.
6. Use other top pick on OL or another back.
7. Brainwash offensive line into monsters.

Out of all 4 QBs that may go in the first round I would take Jake Locker as my pick if I had to choose. And I pick Fig Newton to be the worst of all 4. Closer to bust then any of them

you have to give props to the titans owner for dropping fisher even though he is good coach.

"Since that time, it became evident that consensus was increasingly hard to find and reality wasn't matching the vision we discussed.

thats what is failed to be seen here by management and some of you fans.

The talk is that Will Allen will be waived next month. Considering that he's played SIX games in the last two years and will make $5.5 million dollars this season it's no big loss. Still need to find another nickel back this season and maybe a second CB, depending on what they want to do with Sapp.

Craig, sounds familiar with this team (playing six games and making mega-millions). Hmm, Crowder, Odrick, Ronnie Brown (every other season).

Wish I could blame it all on Ireland, but obviously drafting injury-prone players is a talent multiple Miami GMs have had.

I'll repeat, if Miami wants to matter in the NFL, they need to get ALL if not a solid majority of their picks right. Not just a "good" pick, the RIGHT pick. Not the best DE in the draft who's gonna play 1/2 the season for you, but the guy who's gonna be a stud in the league for a long time to come (or at least a solid support player like a Koa Misi).

newton is 6'6 250 those are roethlisberer stats you can deny that he has a knack for the end zone i prefer mallet over him but i wouldnt be mad if we drafted him

DC,

I dont think trading back is neccessarily an indictment of the qb's as it is the neccessity to guarantee themselves the best possible chance of landing 2 starters from this year's draft. I saw on espn the cba if it happens could happen as far back as July-August. Meaning zero player movement via fa or trades.

So, even greater reason to give yourself best possible opportunity to land at least 2 starters via draft. There's no guarantee any top free agent will sign with us or any trades will happen at the right price. Approaching the draft as if none of these things will happen may be the correct recourse for us.

I agree with DC Dofan, we could have had Zorn as a QB coach and not a line coach conversion to QB coach.Zorn was promoted to his level of incompetency and failed as head coach...this gives a smart manager an opportunity to pick up an excellent QB coach. Before we get to criticize the choices of coaches,however, I would like to know the reasoning behind some of their choices. Principally the OC position. Does Coach Tony know something that the rest of the world doesn't know about Daboll? Then the Special Teams coach, was Rizzi the best available? and of course the QB coach. Choosing an individual with no previous NFL or big college experience to work on, probably the most sensitive position with most questionable player? It brings up the question if Coach Tony and the Phins organization have given up on retrofitting Henne...

I know this may not sound popular but if we traded back and got 2nd rd pick. I wouldnt be to upset if we chose o-linemen with both the 1st and 2nd pick.

Outside of a #1 overall for Jake Long, we've tried building the oline with injury prone vets thru fa and lower level picks. Obviously since we still have issues there it hasnt worked.

Sooner or later we'll have to use more premium picks to get premium olinemen. May as well start now.

Agreed DB, and that's why I'm starting to walk-back my "draft a QB" demand. First off, I have no confidence Ireland KNOWS how to draft a good QB. Second, I have no confidence a guy who's never developed a QB CAN develop a rookie QB. Lastly, a rookie QB won't be getting any coaching or learning any system until the CBA is figured out, and if as late as you say, you can't cram all that info in that short amount of time and expect he'll be able to seriously compete against Henne.

So, if it's Henne (and possibly, hopefully a vet when CBA is signed) the best we can hope for is more weapons for him (better run game, TE, fast WR). I know, I know, this is what a lot of you were saying all along. Well, you've finally weakened the towering oak. I'm cracking on my resolve. I can't see another disaster season, I just can't.

UH, Cam Newton isn't Big Ben and more then likely will never be.

No Fig Newton, hahahahah. Figgy to Washington. Who's the biggest bust in the draft, it's the Big Fig Newton ! ! ! hahahahahah

Stock pile talent. Forget about size requirements. DRAFT FOOTBALL PLAYERS.

I don't care what round they are drafted in. Aside from a punter, kicker & DE's, I don't care what position they are.

Just get the best available guys when you get the chance.

didnt say he was and atleast speaking only on a collegiate level he has played against better competition

I dont know if anyone else remembers but soon after drafting Peyton Manning the Colts spent the next 2-3 seasons using thier top level picks on offensive linemen.

Even if we used a #1 pick on a qb this season. Outside of Jake Long, we'll need to began using top level picks on olinemen anyway. A qb is a major investment for a team and putting together a patchwork our makeshift oline to protect that investment is futile.

Cam Newton will be an amazing talent for somebody, right up until the time he's arrested, or blows up from some personal or ethical breakdown. There's a history already of Vick-like, Pac-man-like decisions, and he hasn't even gotten rich yet. PASSSSSSSS. Please pass.

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