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If Henne is like Brees, Fins should be like Chargers

Many of you that believe in Chad Henne have often drawn a favorable comparison between him and Drew Brees.

Brees, you often point out, was not a good quarterback his first three years in the NFL. The turth of the matter is if you look at Brees the first three years of his career and you look at Henne his first three years, and the similarities are obvious.

Brees didn't play much his rookie season. Brees didn't play much his rookie season. Both started as second-year players and suffered the typical struggles young quarterbacks often encounter. And then both seemed to regress their second seasons as the starter.

When you compare their two years starting, Brees had 28 TD passes and 31 interceptions. Henne has had 27 TD passes and 33 interceptions. And Henne's completion percentage is higher and he's thrown for more yards.

So, some of you have argued, it is entirely possible Henne follows the same path Brees followed.

And I hope you are correct.

But ...

You cannot write a warranty for that idea. So I suggest we carry the comparison further.

If you want to compare the quarterbacks as possible twins, I suggest the Dolphins follow the road the Chargers followed.

After those first three years with Brees, the Chargers had no idea he could be their QB. But they knew they had to guard themselves against the idea Brees wouldn't ever be much good. So in April of 2004, with Brees on the roster, the Chargers did what the Dolphins should do in this coming draft.

They drafted a quarterback.

The Chargers took Phillip Rivers with their first overall pick. It was brilliant. Rivers was not able to beat out Brees as the starter in 2004. The fact is Brees finally started coming into his own. But the insurance policy was nonetheless in place. (Actually, the Chargers picked Eli Manning and then traded him for a chance to land Rivers, but you get the drift. They got Phillip Rivers.)

It was a great piece of personnel work by A.J. Smith.

He didn't need Rivers right away because Brees finally started producing. But no one looked at him crossways and questioned why he protected the franchise's best interest by adding a highly touted rookie QB.

Brees went on to play well in 2004 and 2005 but he injured his shoulder at the end of 2005. Smith, as uncertain about the injury just as the Dolphins were, opted to give Brees a carefully crafted contract offer that protected the team against that injury being serious. Brees declined it and went on the market and eventually signed with New Orleans.

And the Chargers handed the reins of their offense to a QB who had been sitting and learning for two years. Rivers was an instant hit and has been among the NFL's best QBs ever since.

What's the moral of the story?

Yes, maybe the Dolphins need to have patience with Henne because he could blossom into a latter-day Brees. But, absolutely, they also need to have the wisdom to guard against that not happening.

Just like the San Diego Chargers did.


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A great comparison, and hopefully we follow in the same tracks. I hope we can get Ryan Mallett

Mallett??!! Oh please!!! He sucks

Here is the problem with this, there is NO Phillip Rivers in this draft!

The problem is we don't draft until 15 and don't have a lot of ammunition to draft up. Cam Newton was projected to be available at 15 two weeks ago, things changed, he may very well go much sooner.

Cam Newton like I have been saying all along. SO what if he is a project, he can run the Cat until he learns more. Fine w/ me.

and we're not picking number 1 or two like the chargers did, the only really interesting QBs will probably be gone before the dolphins pick unless they are willing to do what the JETS did for Sanchez and move up...I personally find Cam Newton to be worth the chance and a perfect fit for the give Henne another year to blossom theorists...

The analogy is a good one and I am fine with the brass picking a Qb in the draft but not first round. For one thing there is no Philip Rivers or Eli Manning or even Jay Cutler in this draft. Or at least there doesn't appear to be. The more prudent thing would be to pick a QB in the 3rd or 4th round. There is very little difference in the guys later in the draft than the guys in the first round. Don't WASTE another pick HOPING that one of the guys in the first is the guy. Draft one of the lower ranked QB's and let the guy develop while Henne or whoever play. Rivers never go to play until his third season in the league and that's how it should be with the rook.

"If Henne is like Brees, Fins should be like Chargers"

Armando Salgeuro

Armando...that headline is pure genious....its poetry.....

If I had thought of thatI could have ended so many arguments in this blog with that ONE LINE......guess thats wht they pay you...and my post only contribute to the growth of your's and the Herald's pockets.....

Any way...I'M STEALING IT....but I will credit you...

Cam Newton's offense at Auburn was quite simple when compared to an NFL offense. Make one read and if it isn't there, run.

The one thing Henne lacks when compared to early Brees, is the ability to scramble and move around in the pocket.

It's so unfortunate for this region even if they select a qb 1st rd and Henne and the Dolphins flop in 2011 at least Sparano may be out of a job.

The hardest thing to predict is what this region actually does draft day. Because what has been very predictable about them is thier unpredictability come draft day.

Even though dolphan nation is split on several different fronts on what we would like to see happen on draft day doesnt mean it will. So for now all that we can do is continue stating what we may like too see according to our own perspective differing viewpoints. Then wait patiently for the reality of it all and what it it eventually brings.

Still, a small handful of us, whomever it may be, may get a chance to say I told you so. Or none at all may get the chance as this region has shown propensity to throw each and everyone of us the nastiest of curve balls.

Brees didn't play much his rookie season. Brees didn't play much his record season.


I know you're sold on Ricki Stanzi but I was reading one scouting report on him and he sounded an awful lot like what we have in Henne right now. They talked about his strengths and weakness and one of the things they talked about was no pocket pressence and indecision while under pressure. I know you said you figured one of Stanzi's strength was pocket pressence. I'm just pointing out that I found it interested that one scout was criticizing him for lack of it. Check it out at walterfootball.com. Interesting read....

Good analogy and I agree with your assessment that the Phins should pick a QB in the first round. In my opinion, those who say "there isn't a Rivers in this draft" are short-sighted. There are at least two, Mallett and Newton (possibly three with Gabbert). Many forget that Rivers had quite a few naysayers when he came out. His throwing motion was questioned, his toughness was questioned, etc. How many people said Aaron Rodgers was overrated, as he dropped down to #24 for Green Bay to finally select? Those who want us to draft a QB in round 2 (we don't even have a #2 pick) or round 3 are simply dooming us to repeat our many previous errors (Henne, Beck, Feeley, etc). QB is the most important position on a football team. There's no debate about that fact. Most agree that Henne is not our answer at that position. It's time for Ireland and Sparano to confirm the importance of QB by going after their first choice in the first round.

"They drafted a quarterback.

The Chargers took Phillip Rivers with their first overall pick."

It really doesn't matter, but I thought I'd point out that the Chargers drafted Eli Manning and then traded him to the Giants for the 4th pick, where they selected Rivers. Only reason this is important is because the Chargers got extra picks from the Giants, one of which was used to pick Shawn Merriman. I think Kaeding was one of the other picks but not sure...Either way, it was a brilliant move by the Chargers.

Only thing I'm 100% against is mortgaging the future to move up at all cost when none of those available qb's are really "franchise grade." No one has has crystal ball to predict that we would pay would not be in getting what could possibly amount to a decent nfl backup qb at best.

Certainly it would amount to possibly giving up a 1st rd pick next season, whatever else, and we already dont have a 2nd rd pick in 2011 to boot. If it doesnt work out the franchise has in essence taken an astronomical giant steps backward. We're playing catch up to the rest of the elites as it is and can ill-afford to give up anymore ground.

It could possibly take up to 5yrs to fully recover if the move doesnt pan out.

Also, if it wasn't for Archie Manning publicly stating Eli did not want to play for SD, the deal may never have happened, and history would have written a much different story about Rivers and Manning...

This is why these minor details are kind of important to remember, but not necessarily for this blog article, so I guess I'm goin on and on about nothin a tall lol.

Apparently, somebody got on Armando's as- to blog more frequently. Who could have been?


"Most" scouts are saying his greatest strength his his pocket presence. However, if you get a someone of Stanzi's potential I consider it a steal.

Im not saying take the guy 1st-2nd rd. I'm only saying if he can picked up after the 2nd rd he can end up being the best bargain of the entire draft. Really there isnt a whole lot that separates this year's qb's. That's what scares me most when there are those stating trade up to get one.

I would hate to look back 3-4yrs from now and someone like Stanzi turns out to be the best of 2011's lot and we could have had him at bargain basement and blew it.

No Phillip Rivers on this draft and I Am really wish that Henne can turn into another Brees . I am in favor of giving Henne 1 more chance with the new OC and draft a QB in the 1st round only if Mallet or Newton is available otherwise trade down and try to get additional picks or go for Mark Ingram anyway we also need a RB

Picking QB's is like going to the prom with your second choice.

Finding one to replace Henne seems simple enough given his win record and INT count.

I thought Henne was going to blow us away with his play. All I see is a robot, some think that Henning kept him chained. My take is that this guy has much to do regarding leadership also he checks off and everyone know where's he going. That's the reason he had so many INT's.

This QB class may not be the best, but there has to be one diamond against all the coal.

Our GM really needs to step it up and find a diamond, cause Pat White was coal.

Mando worst post ever, you can get the same crap on this blog

Another thing I like about Stanzi, in his junior year he threw 17td's and 15 int's. His senior season he threw for 26 td's and the int's dropped drastically down to only 6.

Stanzi does have some games where he at times struggle with the accuracy. But by seeing stats only it doesnt tell the full story of whether drops, great defensive play, reciever running wrong route, etc....

From stats alone it very difficult to tell how much is on Stanzi and how much is on factors he couldnt control. I just feel if you get him after the 2nd rd he has the potential to be this draft's greatest steal!

I believe that Henne may develop to be a better quarterback but I don't think that he will ever become an elite qb though. Remember, Henne went along with the conspiracy to sabotage the offense last season. How can he be trusted again; especially as the number 1 qb? I say that we trade Henne and sign Vince young, Thigpen and draft a promising rookie. I also say that we sign Jason Taylor so that he can retire as a dolphin and train Coa Misi. We should keep both Ricky Williams and Ronnie Brown. If they keep only one, I think they will regret as they did when they traded Ted Ginn.

For those seeking to trade up or pick a qb at 15. You may also wanna consider Mankins is now franchised meaning we also need to spend a quality pick on an olineman. Cant keep drafting them 3rd rd and further out hoping for miracles.

Ricky has one more year in the tank max. Ronnie has indisputably proven he's not the sole answer at rb. Also, do any of you seriously believe Hartline is the answer at #2 wr? I hope not because you may also believe Fasano is the complete answer at TE too.


So dont any of you guys forget that!

Oh, you must be James' unrecorded son. Quick, quick, sell your heritage to a movie company. Truly.


The problem with the Fins is that they are draft purgatory. At 15th in the draft most good QB'S will be gone. They don't have much trading power since they don't have a 2nd round pick. Now there are some hidden jewels at QB. The kid from Nevada, the kid from Delaware. This is a team with many needs. Too many to fill in this draft alone.


How can I get angry at Sonia, ALoco?



Not only do we have many offensive needs, octavio, but also a meager # of good draft opportunities.

I think the main thing many screaming draft a qb 1st rd are not fully understanding is our 2010 offense was terrible at so many different angles that doesnt include qb too. There were so many things wrong that even Dan Marino alone wouldnt have been able to fix it.

We've used 3 premiums picks on offense under this region. By premium I mean 1st or 2nd rd picks. Jake Long is the unanimous success. White was a combination of overdrafting and underdeveloping. Henne's neither great nor complte bust.

On the oline we've had 2 good but often injured fa's, eventually having to cut bait. Fasano seems neither great nor bust. Ricky's at the end of the road. Ronnie's more ballerina than back.

We only have 2 great players on offense period. That's Jake Long and Brandon Marshall. Now you guys tell me how moving up or drafting a qb at 15 fixes that.

That's why I favor a wr with the #1 pick, an olineman #2 or vice versa. At 3, go qb or olineman again or qb/rb. That's why I favor a qb like Stanzi because he affords us to use premium picks at other offensive positions too.

Guys its not just qb, nearly the entire offense stinks to high heavens right now. Only quality picks can fix that. We need as many as possible of these.

We also need a premium pick on an olineman to guarrantee getting a quality one. Pats just franchised Mankins so forget about that.

If we get to the playoffs, ALoco, that hatred from Florida men that you talk about, will turn into an abundance of love.

Folks, I know that we should keep everyone that we have right now. We have a great team. Just consider some of the teams we defeated. The WHOLE problem was our injured offensive line and quarterback. Just consider all the games that we have lost in the last ten years by ONE touchdown or less; 63 games. Our whole problem for all of these years has been not scoring enough POINTS! If we bring in a lot of new people, then we will have to teach them our system; two steps back!


Been reading your last few posts and we are TOTALLY on the same page. It's like you've taken the words right out of my mouth...LOL. I'm not going to rpeat everything you said but I feel EXACTLY the same.

Not sure how I feel about the draft prioritites but here's a question for you. It looks like the Raiders will franchise Zach Miller and the Jags will franchise Mercedes Lewis. We both agree that a pass catching TE is a must for this offence. Would you not agree then that drafting a TE in the first three rounds becomes a priority now too?

Forget about Chad Henne, Dan Marino would have struggled to get us into the playoffs in 2010 surrounded by the exact same level of talent. I wonder how many would be screaming Marino's lost it had he been in the exact same situation.


2- NJ


If Kyle Rudolph grades out as being a sure thing I wouldnt be against a tradeback scenario drafting him where ever we would sit in the back of the draft. If we know that we need a quality TE there's no sense bs'ing think we can draft a guy 3rd rd and make him star. Because if not its just another pick we can no longer afford to waste.

I believe in systematically using our 1st and 2nd rd picks for quality guys. Not hoping to get lucky trying to fill key positions with 3rd rd and lower picks.

3rd rd to me begins the backup phase for draft picks. If you have at least 2 seasons to develop them you can have a very nice player. But you cant expect them to be starters right away.

If you need them to be starters right away then use your 1st or 2nd rd pick on that player. That's my personal gm formula.

I thought that anger had to do with sexually frustrated men, ALoco. But Nevada? That kind of discards my theory.

For the guys screaming for a first round QB I'd like to know how they plan to fill the holes on the team this offseason. Here's the holes, in no particular order:

two running backs
pass-catching TE
#2 WR
two QB's

So NO second round pick, lots of holes to fill and I don't believe we can count on, maybe even expect to even have free agency. In a year when we're going to draft and have free agency God knows when, to pick a QB in the first round is not only short-sighted it's irresponsible. Not knowing how those other holes are going to be filled could prove disastrous. Also, if we draft a first round QB plan for the team to commit to this guy for the next 3-4 years, minimum....meaning, hugely unlikely another QB goes in the first round in the next 4-5 years.

I don't think you can really compare Drew Brees with Chad Henne. First off Brees was asked to throw it 520 times in his first season. He did play in two more then Henne did. But it would have required Henne to throw it 50 plus times in the two games that he missed to equal Brees' total. 520 times is a huge ask for a first year starter. Yet Brees had more td's then int's. Something Henne hasn't done.

Brees played in only 11 games his second year. But again was asked to throw it over 300 times in those starts. He was benched. Henne threw it upwards of 450 times in the 15 games he played. But you could argue that if Pennington stayed healthy. He may have never seen the field again, except for mop up duty.

The only real comparisons that you can make between the the two are these. Both franchises had, and have doubts about the quarterback. 2 they both threw it too many times. Brees has gone on to prove himself a top tier quarterback, but it took a top tier running game to jump start his sucsess. You could say that in Hennes first season, the running game was great. But that isn't the point of this particular post. Henne will need more help, then he recieved last year to even think about making believers out of this orginization. He isn't ready yet to take a team on his shoulders without solid play from other areas of the offense.


does anyone realize dan marino had four knee surgeries during his career at pitt? does anyone remember his career at pitt? it was less than stellar. look at his td/int ratio and tell me that he was worthy of a first rd pick. qb is probably the toughest position of all the positions to evaluate talent and make the right choice. it's a lot easier said than done.
miami can pick a guy like aldon smith in the first round or ryan williams in the second and they will get a hit. however, when it comes to taking a qb, it's much more difficult to assess how well you think a guy will do at the next level. the qb position is more demanding than most.
for instance, you take aldon smith and teach him your defensive scheme. he is brought in mainly to rush the passer on obvious passing downs. will he succeed? let's just say he has an easier chance of suceeding than a qb.
you draft a qb and it takes time to develop him into a starter; a lot more time than on the OL, DL, WR, etc. it's a completely different scenario.
some guys will learn the position quicker than others and it doesn't necessarily mean you need a rhode scholar to run your offense; just a guy who gets it.
that being said, there are a number of qb prospects who can end up being starters in this league that are coming out this year. some may take longer than others to start but players like gabbert, mallet, newton, kaepernick, stanzi, ponder and dalton have the talent to play at the next level and be starters in this league. all of these guys have the tools they need to make the throws they need to be successful. some have stronger arms than others but that's not important. all of these guys can play at the next level. you can't look at them and try to pick them apart based on stats in each year in college because it doesn't mean anything.
marino had less of a college career than any of these guys but he excelled at the next level. the difference is going to be how much each of these guys want it. if they want to be good at what they do it will make all of the difference in the world.



This CPA is making this Draft more difficult than it usually is. Lookout!


I'd like to see a trade back option and then a guy like Rudolph go late in the first or early in the second. A guy like Titus Young would also be a nice addition and I think he could help the return game. I think you can get a good running back in the third or fourth round. We've seen guys like Foster, Blount, Ivey in NO, Pierre Thomas, Bradshaw, Terrel Davis, have success as late round picks. Maybe they even go after a guy like Bradshaw if he comes available in FA. I would be fine with bringing Ronnie Brown back on a one year contract, as a secondary option. I think he's lost a step but I also think the line hurt him last year and I'd like to see him another year removed from his injury.


You're absolutely right. Henne needs more consistency around him to get more consistent himself. The line needs to become more solidified to produce better protection and and run game. We desperately need vertical TE's and wr's.

Marshall is only a vertical threat in the aspect of he has the ability to outphysical a db in one on one coverage deep. He's not beating them with pure speed. Fasano is nearly zero vertical threat himself.

So those thinking selling the farm for a qb fixes the offense are in complete delusion. That leaves nothing to address the other issues equally or even more pressing than just Henne alone.

Seems positions we need in fa are being franchised as we speak. So the draft may be the only opportunity to adequately address or add at least 2 new starters(1st and 2nd rd).

Craig M..I was a we need to take a tight end early in the draft guy. I started really thinking about it, and came around to DB's point of view. Yes we need a tight end. But the talent at the reciever position seems much greater then the talent at tight end in this draft. The recievers in the first two rounds are superior playmakers(IMO) to any of the tight ends. Of course time will tell. But I think we can get a playmaker that helps us now, if we go the reciever route. The tight end ship may have sailed last year. I think TE is a position that we should wait until later, as there doesn't seem to be a player that would have a first round grade in a stronger class.


I like your plan. Im along those same thinking lines.

dm1dolphin is right too. There are at least 7-8 qb's with the skills to play at this level. If you can get one of them say 4th rd(Stanzi) anything can happen. Its a limited investment that could perhaps produce premium returns.

There isnt really one qb in this draft thats absolutely head and shoulders better than any of the rest. Looks like a total crapshoot.


I like Rudolph. I also like DJ Williams but I think he could be had in the 3rd or 4th. To me it's imperative that we find our QBs a consistent safety valve from the TE position. All the successful teams have one. Fasano isn't that guy.

I will agree with you, the WR position has better depth in terms of finding a playmaker.


Totally agree. There are 7-8 QBs who could work out and I like the idea of not having to invest a first round pick in one. I think the people who are so enthralled with Cam Newton are going to be really disappointed in this guy. There is nothing with this guy that suggests he's going to be a winning QB in the NFL. Now he could be but he could also be a complete and utter flop. I'm not in favour of us taking those kind of risks. It's what got us into this mess in the first place. Start hitting on some draft picks and this franchise will start winning again.


I more favor a wr 1st rd because it gives us the opportunity to get a speedster at #wr quality to pair with Marshall. It forces defenses to play cover 2 or give Marshall more one on one opportunities because we now have a legit deep threat on the other side.

If we had this, then acquire a deep threat TE, that's out you blow the top off of cover 2. Both safeties doubling the wr's and the speed TE splits the difference in the wide open middle of the field.

It would at least take the ss out of the middle of the field with a legit deep threat wr on the other side. It even gives Fasano more space in the middle on horizontal routes. Fasano can beat lb's with horizontal separation, he just doesnt have the speed to beat them vertically.

I am a Henne hater BUT the biggest problem, IMO, is the Offensive Line. LT is fine, RG could be fine if Carey slides over, LG is a problem (wasn't Jerry a LG in college?), C could pan out if Incognito continues to develop. Okay so we need an RT, a LG and maybe a C, Whatshisname will be back (Garner?) and he is solid.

Three O-Line positions is huge. No QBs left will be worth it at 15. Got to go O-line.

Let's face it, behind a good O'line, any QB will have more time - even Roboto (not that I think he is better than Thiggy, but Thiggy is a FA). More time = better decisions. Even a game manager can be adequate. Put someone with a brain in there and it could work even better (unlike many, I do like Vince Young at least for the interim - he wins you two games on his own, IMO).

A pass catching TE is next up. This actually opens the offense up more than any other skill position considering that we have Marshall and Bess. A fast, slashing RB would be nice but we might have that in Sheets. Abneter a nd faster WR than Hartline would also be nice but Moore may become that, in the meantime Hartline will suffice.

My vote:

If possible (and it's going to be hard), move down and pick up a 2nd...

1. Best available offensive lineman
2. Best available TE
3. Kaepernick if available, if not,O-line.
4 - 7. Best offensive player available: WR, RB, OL. If Kaepernick not avail in 3rd, and Stanzi is in the 4th, take him.

As far as FS, we have Jones (even if his natural position is SS). Clemons is not very good, adequate at best. We now have Will Allen back at CB and I am very comfortable with that position. If Sapp is still with us (he's not needed at CB), he might make the conversion to Free Safety fairly well. Could use an OLB but no draft picks on defense.

To pick up a 2nd we may need to package a player. Merling comes to mind as a guy we can float out there. We are loaded at DE and he is worth a fourth (sorry, he hasn't lived up to his draft position) even coming off an injury, so a package of a move-down and Merling could garner a second.

I think Titus Young would be ideal for this offence DB. There's a chance he could be had in the second round, as Desean Jackson was and he's often compared to Jackson. He would also instantly improve our return game.

Even if teams didnt play cover 2 and use rolling double teams. Henne could read at the snap which one of the wr's are getting the doubles and target the one with single coverage.


You're reading my mind. That's exactly who I would like to see us take, Titus Young.

Not the whole story. The Chargers dumped Brees and he signed with the Saints and won a Superbowl. Chargers have sill not won a Superbowl. Bad analogy. Why do you want to be like the Chargers?

The other reason to find a tight end is so that we can use 2 tight end sets. This formation is just another card to play to keep defenses on their toes. Think about all of the options an offense has out of this set. A great run formation, great play action formation, and a great formation to get both tight ends in a route to expose the weakspot in the defense. It is a formation that the Pats run to perfection because they get one on one mismatches for a few reasons. 1 the defense has to account for the run, but 2 the offense will get a more atheletic tight end on a linebacker, or a bigger tight end on a smaller saftey. Now I know it's not foolproff everytime, but it is a start.

One guy that is interesting is a kid named Julius Thomas from Portland State University. He probably will be an afterthought until the later rounds. But he is one of those basketball players turned tight end. He is very raw. But he was all Big Sky Conference after just one year of ball. He is 6'5, and runs in the 4'6 range. A project for sure, and definitley a late round pick. But a pure athelete.

Jimmy Jam,

I see no one who would give a 2nd rd pick for Merling. We drafted him with a 2nd rd pick and he has thus far under performed even before his injury and running afowl of the law.

We would be extremely fortunate to get a very late 3rd pick and thats a huge longshot.

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