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If Henne is like Brees, Fins should be like Chargers

Many of you that believe in Chad Henne have often drawn a favorable comparison between him and Drew Brees.

Brees, you often point out, was not a good quarterback his first three years in the NFL. The turth of the matter is if you look at Brees the first three years of his career and you look at Henne his first three years, and the similarities are obvious.

Brees didn't play much his rookie season. Brees didn't play much his rookie season. Both started as second-year players and suffered the typical struggles young quarterbacks often encounter. And then both seemed to regress their second seasons as the starter.

When you compare their two years starting, Brees had 28 TD passes and 31 interceptions. Henne has had 27 TD passes and 33 interceptions. And Henne's completion percentage is higher and he's thrown for more yards.

So, some of you have argued, it is entirely possible Henne follows the same path Brees followed.

And I hope you are correct.

But ...

You cannot write a warranty for that idea. So I suggest we carry the comparison further.

If you want to compare the quarterbacks as possible twins, I suggest the Dolphins follow the road the Chargers followed.

After those first three years with Brees, the Chargers had no idea he could be their QB. But they knew they had to guard themselves against the idea Brees wouldn't ever be much good. So in April of 2004, with Brees on the roster, the Chargers did what the Dolphins should do in this coming draft.

They drafted a quarterback.

The Chargers took Phillip Rivers with their first overall pick. It was brilliant. Rivers was not able to beat out Brees as the starter in 2004. The fact is Brees finally started coming into his own. But the insurance policy was nonetheless in place. (Actually, the Chargers picked Eli Manning and then traded him for a chance to land Rivers, but you get the drift. They got Phillip Rivers.)

It was a great piece of personnel work by A.J. Smith.

He didn't need Rivers right away because Brees finally started producing. But no one looked at him crossways and questioned why he protected the franchise's best interest by adding a highly touted rookie QB.

Brees went on to play well in 2004 and 2005 but he injured his shoulder at the end of 2005. Smith, as uncertain about the injury just as the Dolphins were, opted to give Brees a carefully crafted contract offer that protected the team against that injury being serious. Brees declined it and went on the market and eventually signed with New Orleans.

And the Chargers handed the reins of their offense to a QB who had been sitting and learning for two years. Rivers was an instant hit and has been among the NFL's best QBs ever since.

What's the moral of the story?

Yes, maybe the Dolphins need to have patience with Henne because he could blossom into a latter-day Brees. But, absolutely, they also need to have the wisdom to guard against that not happening.

Just like the San Diego Chargers did.

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Andy in NJ,

I'm in agreement, I think Newton ends up in Buffalo at #3. Is he the right pick for them? No idea! But he very likely puts some butts in the seats for a couple of years, when he does he get around to playing.

So Andy, you want a QB in the first round regardless of the situation? Isn't that a lot like what guys wanted the year we passed over Brady Quinn in the first round? Regardless of whatever you, me or anybody else thinks the Dolphins will only pick a QB in the first round if they see him being a franchise QB at some point down the road. To take one in the first round just for the sake of taking one is part of the reason we're mediocre. You pick the guys who are going to be successful, regardless of position, and you hope to God you hit more often than you miss. With 2-3 QBs likely gone before we pick at 15, there's a very good chance we're going to get everyone else's leftovers'. Is that REALLY what the fanbase wants?

Andy Bulger is not better than henne. I doubt we go out and get bulger. I would rather give a 2012 pick from flynn.

How manu coaches, how many QB´s. We do need Patience, I know, I know. But we got to have it: I mean we were lucky with Dan being so good so early. But the truth it´s Dan had Dupe, Clayton, Duriel harris , Nat Moore , and triplets at TE. Plus a hall of famer center.
Dwight it´s the best ever , easy. Dan is not only the best , its the ONLY one in my book. BEST EVER. But i think we should give Henne a chance.

And...What have the Chargers done in a weak division? I don't see them with any Lombardi or Hunt Hardware. They kept the wrong QB.

almost 40 years since the fins were super bowl champs......Chargers never been he champs, And at least we can say the jets streak of championships have been longer..........

Cuban, where do you stand on the QB argument?

Chad(Fat neck)Henne is a big disappointment Coco, like the last 2 years, Lets draft a QB for the future, But again with he current regime I see nothing but a 8 and 8 season, meanwhile the pats reload the jets are better and the bills are also getting better(though taking dave(no clue)Wannstedt will surely bite them on the backside.......

Cuban, no telling what these knot heads will do. But they did it to themselves (and us) with 3 years of below average drafts. And after the Pat White thing, they just gave up trying to find QBs.

There's no simple solution. If we draft a QB in the 1st round, we have the 3rd and 4th to try to find a Guard, RB. And I know they need to keep Nolan happy by drafting on D.

I think they'll try to deal to get 2nd rounder back.

ALL THE GANG OF DEFEAT HAVE A BALL . THEY KEEP TALKING TO EACH OTHER AS IF THEY KNOW THE UNKNOWN WHICH IS,HENNE WILL ROCK IN HIS SECOND YEAR AS A STARTER .

CUBAN DIDN'T CALL HENNE ,THE FAT NECK FOR ALMOST 10 MONTH B/C HENNE WAS DOING WELL BUT SINCT ALL THE GANG OF DEFEAT ARE OUT IN FORCE HE'S JOINING THE PARTY OF ATTACKING HENNE.


NO SHAME

I see Lil Aloco is on his 3rd tube of glue.. You go lil aloco....

Oregon, in your analysis you failed to take into account two very important things: evasiveness and accuracy. You're just plain wrong about last year with another QB. I can easily offer you a realistic vision of how we could have been 10-6 with a QB that could get away from pressure or at least look downfield and make plays while on the run. And if we had a Brady or Peyton we could easily have won the division. We didn't lose the Cleveland and Detroit games because of poor oline play or Fasano or a deep WR threat. We lost those games mostly due to playcalling and Henne's accuracy and confidence.

So, while I can agree on all the needs you specified, I think you're not giving enough importance to the QB position. The only game that was completely unwinnable was Chicago (because of the injuries). Other than that, we had a chance in pretty much every other game.

BTW Aloco, Chad(Fat neck) Henning took over in the 5th game of 09, hasnt shown much leadership,passing skills,or testicular fortitude in my opinion, though I might be wrong, can you correct my way(And many others)Thinking???

Aloco, I see you dusted off the old 2nd year as a starter argument? Well no matter, I hope you're right. Because if you're right, we all win. I just don't see it happening.

@Andy
Dude I could not have said it better!!!!
Everyone scroll down and read what this man has said!!! From god to Andy. To us!!!!
Thank you!!

mad men IN FLORIDA ARE 3RD IN THE COUNTRY RE THEIR ANGER MANAGEMENT .I THINK IT'S A DOLPHIN RELATED ANGER .

Coco, the last 3 years may have been below-average (to you), but do you recognize those have been our best drafts in over a decade? There are starters on this team from those drafts (something I can't say for earlier drafts). People like Langford, Vontae, Bess, Misi.

Were there mistakes, yes, but you can't name a draft by a team that didn't have mistakes made. This FO was brought in to get us out of the dungeon. They've done that. We're not talking about 1-15 anymore. Even Vegas (per Cuban) had us at 5-11 this year. I said 8-8 is a more likely prediction.

So, looking at everything realistically (not in a vacuum), I'll say this FO did an average to fair job so far. Not lights out amazing by any means, but I'd give them more props than you're giving them.

COCOJOE.... MEANWHILE YOU KEEP ATTACKING HENNE ALL THE TIME WITH YOUR FRIENDS THE UNEMPLOYED GANG OF DEFEAT AND LEAVING MARSHALL,FASANO,CROWDER,V.CARREY B/C IT'S NOT SEXY TO ATTACK THEM ............

NO SHAME

CUBAN,


WHY YOU DIDN'T CALL HENNE THE FAT NECK FOR 10 MO THEN ???????


NO SHAME

DC, I was glad the fins pulled out 7 games, I was thinking more along the line of 5 wins, I will be happy if they get to 5 wins this upcoming season.. IMHO..

out to work to support the gang .

Let's take this comparison to it's conclusion. Brees went off to New Orleans and won a Superbowl and MVP. San Diego have been the great underachievers, missing the playoffs altogether this year. Is that what you want from Miami?

LIL Aloco,I see Chad(Neck fat)Henne in 3 years in a circus performing next to JoJo the dog faced boy and Lula the bearded lady... That will be his claim to fame IMHO....

Victor, The Chargers have had talent to win a Super bowl for 5 years, It comes down to there coaaching staff and Norve Turner might be the worst head coach ever...(Though the fist pumper will be in consideration by next seasdon)... (IMHO)

Trade this years #1 for a #2 this year & a 1, 2 & 4 next year. Stock pile picks for the next draft when there will hopefully be a more competent coach & GM to make use of them.

chad cant handle the speed of the pro defense

After reading these post I have one thing to say dumb

Running NFL QB's have one flaw that really hurts and thats they get hurt really fast. Ask MIchael Vick who no longer wants to run first, throw second. Cam Newton is a college coaches dream, he can out run most college players cause most college players wont be playing on Sunday. We dont need Vince Young, I dont care what his record is. Running QB's are a "me first" team mate and football is a team sport and they dont last but a few yrs, at best.

Let me ask everyone here if you knew the mighty air breathers would lose to the lions,browns, and bills in the last 5 games of the season(At home none the less) wouldn't you be screaming for a new coach???, People it happened.........

DC, yes compared with some very poor drafts in the past. But why use that measuring stick? Why don't we compare drafts to let's say NE or the jets. These are the teams we have to compete against.

Cuban,

Yes, I was one who was screaming for a new coach. But that's not what happened. We gotta move on from that dude. If Sparano doesn't win this year, then he'll be gone (stupid if you ask you or me, cause we wanted him gone THIS year, but nonetheless). There a ZERO% chance Sparano gets dumped this offseason.

So, the only thing you can do is opine on how the team can get better (OTHER THAN replace the coach). That's what our focus should be. Believe me, the coaching situation will work itself out (favorably) if we continue to play poorly.

But wouldn't you rather the next coach have a bit better team to come into than this coach had? Even 5-11 would be better than 1-15.

I don't think the team has to totally fail for Sparano to be canned. I think if we don't significantly improve, he'll be gone. So, I can see us going 8-8, and Sparano still gets canned (even though he improved slightly).

Regardless of what I feel about the current FO (again, my analysis was they were fair-to-ok), the last thing I want to see is us getting worse and worse.

Could happen. But I'm going to try and come up with suggestions on how to not make that happen.

BTW, this is what Pro Football Weekly had to say about Henne in 2008 draft.

"Accuracy is inconsistent. Struggles under pressure. Will stare down his targets. Not very mobile and is no threat to run. Is streaky and prone to mistakes".

"Should at very least enjoy a long career as a backup".

What kind of moron compares brees and henne?

Coco, cause we're not those teams. See my post above (2:10pm), I pretty much say I'd rather have gotten a new FO this year. I think those losses end of last year, sticking with Henning, etc. sealed the deal (for me at least).

But, again, I don't think hypotheticals help us get better. I'd rather analysis how we got here, and how to improve. And other than stealing NE's talent scouts, I don't think we can learn much from measuring our drafts to theirs (different needs, different # of picks, different spots).

I think we need to assess talent much better. I also think that's happening somewhat (better than '07, '06, '05. You can't just discount that we don't have any personnel from any of those drafts (save 1 or 2 guys). That's huge. That's what Ireland's being doing this first 3 years, restocking the team with young talent. It takes a while for those guys to catch on. You need to give them to Year 3 or 4 to get into themselves and gel as a team.

NE is an annual Playoff & SB contender. They CAN take more chances. They CAN go big on a pick. They CAN address their needs through FA. They're FO has enough clout that fans won't jump on them for making mistakes.

We're nowhere close to that. We're just trying to stay afloat right now, a few years from disaster.

I think getting to where we want to be is a process. We've done the heavy lifting at the beginning. Now we have the middle stages of solidifying the team, get better where you need to (like how we improved our defense this year vs. last year) and learn to make the Playoffs. Then we learn how to consistently make the Playoffs.

While we're not where any of want to be right now, I still think we're on the right track, and going in the right direction. My only question now is if this FO has us getting better so incrementally slow, that we can't wait for them, and need to find a new FO that can get us better quicker (that question will be answered better during this upcoming season).

DC, if you look at NE draft last year, you'll see they invested in two very good TEs. They understand that playmaking TEs are the wave of the future. I've heard the term, the new slot reiever. I guess our bunch didn't get that memo.

This year, I hear a lot of people say go after a TE. Only trouble is, there's no Gronkowski's or Hernandez's out there.

Guess what I'm saying is, it's a copycat league and teams...well some of them, get it.

I think we need to upgrade our Fullback to someone like Vontae Leach-if not him of his caliber. You think the interior o-line was the only reason our run game suffered?

LIL "Aloco,I see Chad(Neck fat)Henne in 3 years in a circus performing next to JoJo the dog faced boy and Lula the bearded lady... That will be his claim to fame IMHO".... said Cuban Menace

Humble? LMAO, you're the biggest blow hard in here. And you never make a valid point or have your own opinion. Your opinions are formed when you find out what Armando thinks. But here's the really funny/sad thing about your hatred for Henne and his body. Henne ending up in a circus will still be more of an accomplishment than anything you've ever done in your pathetic life. Enjoy the drive home in your GEO you loser.

Henne's biggest problem is consistency just like Brees in his first 3 seasons. But the touch passes 5 yrds in front of him should be 100%. They benched him for a reason last year... If they have a chance to draft Cam Newton or Locker and they pass up a shot at a superstar at QB becuz of these insane comparisons to Russell and other busts... The guy has "IT" he will be a star for someone I'm thinking if they both are available at 17 the patriots will 100% grab him Do you really wanna see the Patriots be the best team in the AFC for the next 15 years again?

Rob Hausler TE 5th rd / Henry Hynoski FB 6th rd

"What kind of moron compares brees and henne"?

Have much trouble with reading comprehension? They're comparing the first two years of both of their careers because they're almost a mirror image of each other. That is the only comparison dummy.

I wonder if Henne has accepted his fate as a backup QB in the NFL?

"And at least we can say the jets streak of championships have been longer.........."

Great point stupid. The Jets streak of losing championships is longer than what? Another brilliant post by the Cuban Menses.

Newton and Locker should both be gone by #12 anyways i think my point is mute. I don't believe Gabbert and Mallet are worth #15 maybe if we trade back to 25

"Let me ask everyone here if you knew the mighty air breathers would lose to the lions,browns, and bills in the last 5 games of the season(At home none the less) wouldn't you be screaming for a new coach???, People it happened........."

Astounding knowledge. The Dolphins lost those games and we didn't replace the coach?! Well that's news to the rest of us. Great point and it hasn't been made three million times already since the end of the season fat face. Congrats to the Cuban Menses,,,,another thought provoking post. Hey tell us some more about dudes bodies and where the fat is.

Nate Solder/ Ryan Kerrigan/ Julio Jones would be big picks at 15 Mikel LeShoure will be taken before 25 he'd be the guy i'd take a look at RB...

Trade Thigpen for John Skelton of the Cardinals. He's raw but he will be a good one in a couple of years. He's got the size,arm,cool and heart.

Craig M,

I had to check out earlier but to answer your question, no I don't think Miami should draft a QB just to draft one. But the fact that there are 4 QB's with 1st round talent means that a few might come Miami's direction.

I think Newton is just what the doctor ordered for Buffalo at #3. He is super star in the making. If he keeps his head on straight and keeps the student mentality he is using to get scouts attention I think he is going to be very good to great. I say he is the 1st QB taken, even before Gabbert. Buffalo took Spiller last year so they are trying to get fans excited so it probably happens again with an unconventional but huge talent pick. But if Buffalo goes Gabbert and Newton slides Miami has to move up and get him before Washington or Minnesota does.

Gabbert I can't make a case for him to be honest other then some say he is head and shoulders better then any QB in this class. I saw him play in his bowl game and that's it for his entire career. I came away impressed but also watched him throw an errant int to lose the game. And would never judge a guy off one game. The fact he is rated so highly by many I will take their word that he is worthy of top 15 pick.

Ryan Mallet - love him. I mentioned my biased before because my dad and his mom are Arkansas alum but I have watched him for 2 years and he is flat out impressive. He has touch to go with the arm strength. Anyone who says he wasn't impressive in the Sugar Bowl wasn't watching because he had 7 dropped passes that with no exaggeration were in the hands or chest, not diving or high. The passes were just flat dropped. Not too mention the 5 offensive penalties that kept pushing Arkansas back and making 3rd down conversions impossible. Outside of that one game he makes huge throws and wins. Arkansas is an average team in talent compared to other SEC teams in the toughest conference in all football the SEC and Ryan Mallet got them to a Sugar Bowl with his arm. Arkansas didn't discover their RB Knile Davis until about 5 games remaining and he won with his arm and no help from a running game or pourous defense. I don't care what people say that he is not a 1st rounder, he clearly is to me. I would take him at #15 if I were Miami.

Jake Locker - I watched him play a few times and was liked his play. He makes some easy throws, horrible throws and makes other tough ones look effortless. He is also is a great athlete. He runs like a 4.5 or something like that. He has a 1st round grade and plays with no one at Washington. I am not sure I would say he is worthy of a top 15 but for those in favor a of a trade back to pick up the 2nd rounder then this would work. If he made it past Seattle at 25 there isn't another team barring a trade that needs a QB. So if Miami traded back to say the Bears who might want to move up to take Julio Jones or Ravens wanting Robert Quinn or Akeem Ayers at OLB then picking a QB who has warts but a first round grade while picking up that 2nd then yes I would do it.

And I always hated Brady Quinn lol. Not cause he is a golden domer but just think he sucked and had a pathetic arm for looking like WWF wrestler.

Stanzi and Ingram. That should be big part of draft. then, offensive line and free agency.

Armando, you need to learn how to edit! This piece was very well thought out but poorly edited with multiple typos... I thought you were a professional?

Andy NJ,

Good post at 3:48pm. We don't agree but having said that I haven't spent the time studying the QBs the way you have. From the time spent studying the QBs I just don't see it in the QBs coming out. I don't see it in Newton at all. I think he has bust written all over him. I didn't see it in the Bowl game I watched Mallett in. I don't see it in Locker. the guy who looks the best to me is Gabbert but I only saw him in his Bowl game and one other game.

Having said all that, I will keep an open mind when looking at these guys further. If the team can get great play from the QB, whoever that might be, nothing would make me happier.

I see some guys on here still dont get it. The separation in ability between 1st rd qb's in this draft and 4th-5th rd isnt that significant. We can draft a qb 4th rd and not have a significant fall off from the 1st rounders available.

Hell yeah we need to spend premium picks on offensive players. But IMO trade down, get Titus Young and we are set at wr for years to come. Young is also a great returner plus we would now have a speed #2 wr with #1 wr ability and impact. Some of you crying about the passing attack are totally missing the boat on this. Titus Young and Brandon Marshall as the starting wr's suddenly gives the offense comeback impact.

We definitely need a 2nd rd pick like thirsty men in the desert need a cool drink. With that pick get a olineman who starts day 1 and has real pro bowl potential. Jake Long is the only o-lineman we've spent a real premium pick on and boy does it shows. We cant continue to spend 3rd rd and further picks on olineman and think the b*itching about it's quality of play will ever end.

3rd rd go rb with someone like the kid at Oklahoma. that's about where most mocks have him projected to go. 4th rd go after Stanzi. 5th rd if he's still there go after Noel Devine.

6th-7th rd get a damn kicker who can consistently put the ball into the endzone on kickoffs.

2012 we can use a 1st-2nd rd pick on a TE if Fasano and Mickey Shuler dont work out. I know many of you forgot we picked up Mickey Shuler 3/4 way into the season. Who knows what this kid can be for us in 2011 after fully difesting the offense.

Cam Newton is BOOM or BUST...He could be Ryan Leaf or he could be DAN MARINO...such is his upside...

Now can you imagine if that fateful day years ago, they had of said..."Marino is a RISK...we gotta trade down and pick up another OVERWEIGHT lineman....we cant be using up valuable picks...there will be a QB in the latter rounds...."

The rest is history....

Guys...if we dont pull the trigger on a BIG PAY DAY we will never get a big pay day...

Im not saying Newton is Marino.....but he has a chance, he has massive upside....if we are in a position to pick him and we DONT and he becomes elite....we will only have ourselves to blame...

The point im trying to make is this:

Pick a QB with MASSIVE upside...and go for it..
Its a 50/50 yes...but if you dont do that resign yourself to more 7-9 seasons of MEDIOCRITY watching the JETS challenge..did we not learn anything from what the JETS have done?..Be aggressive...you may fail...but if you hit pay dirt you win bigtime...

We need to pick a guy and regardless of anything if we feel that he has something special....GO FOR IT....for me its either Newton or Kaepernick....

Realise that if they BUST...you have Henne as a backup...what have you lost ?....some picks..
hell weve wasted many before but at least we bought a ticket in the lottery...No Ticket..no win....FACT

And the following year we need to do the same...and keep doing it until we hit pay dirt..

My FA signing would be ORTON if available with Henne as backup and a draft pick QB....

Most other holes via better drafting / FA

Forget Rudolph...nowhere near elite potential and Ingram will be a bulldozer nothing else...

My biggest fear is that these guys cant draft...and so far...VERY AVERAGE at best

Big Alfy what are you smoking? Marino was picked 27th in the 1st rd.

I would have little less problem trading back from 15th to 27th, getting a 2nd rd pick, then maybe use that 27th pick on a qb. But trading up or using the 15 with no fallback(2nd rd pick) in hand is professional suicide even if the qb works out 2-3yrs down the line.

However it still does nothing to address the fact we need to add 2011 starters out of the 2011 draft. A 1st rd qb wont be a 2011 starter and with no 2nd rd pick the chances of landing a 2011 starter from this draft lower even more catastrophically.

What's the real purpose of having a 2011 draft for us if we cant get even one legit 2011 starter from it? This is the primary point many of you are totally whiffing on.

This is why I more favor getting a 2nd rd pick and using both our 1st and 2nd rd picks on guys that can come in day 1 and start on offense. Drafting a qb in the 1st and not having a 2nd rd pick is like trading 2 potential day one starters for a guy that "might" be ready to start in his 3rd season.

We need to add 2 day 1 starters on offense far worse than we need a qb that "might" be ready to start in his 3rd season. Thats why I like Titus Young late 1st rd and an offensive lineman 2nd rd. A qb perhaps 3rd or 4th rd because the separation in talent of all of these available qb's isnt that great.

It will probably be a 2-3yr window before any of these qb's are fully ready to start whether 1st rd or 4th rd.

Why is no one talking about Carson Palmer, heres the deal... Henne and our first for palmer a 2 and 4. Bengals get a decent QB with potential and gain a second 1st round pick. Phis get a proven player whom has dealt with high-end WR's, End of story..

DB...lol...I see what you mean but Titus Young wont win us games...yes marino was 27th...but we could have traded down and not used a 1st rounder on a QB...thats the exact point im making..you gotta pull the trigger at some point...

All the Titus Youngs in the world wont be franchise changing...but an elite QB will be..
Further on that ...what if young becomes average...?....what if...what if...


Id rather put my 'what if' into a GAME CHANGER..
If the FO feel there is a QB with elite potential...they should TRADE UP...not down...and fix the QB problem once and for all.

Even if QB is all that is fixed this draft...it will have been a great draft...

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