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The tale of the drafts that piled bad atop terrible

There was a depressing statistic Dolphins people once used in order to explain the troubled state of the franchise.

During the makeover years of 2005-2007, folks that took the Dolphins' reins were confident they would give direction to a lost franchise. But they noted it would take time because they looked at what they had to work with and were horrified the shelves were bare. They looked back at the drafts from 2000 to the dates when they took over and lamented the failure of those drafts.

People like Nick Saban and Randy Mueller noted the lack of talent on hand because of bad drafting from 2000-2004. 

The statistic they cited was that between 2000 and 2004 the Dolphins had managed to select only six players that were still on the roster, with only two of those players, Chris Chambers and Randy McMichael, becoming starters at that time.

So five years of drafting produced only two starters. Eventually a third starter would be added when Yeremiah Bell broke into the starting lineup, but the statistics were still sobering. Five drafts. Three starters.

Those folks running things from 2005-2007 blamed the struggles they were having, in part, on the drafts of 2000-2004. It was a fair criticism because for Saban and later Cam Cameron, the number of players that should have been coming into their primes as third, fourth, and fifth-year players were practically non-existant on the Dolphins.

That kept the Dolphins from competing with teams which had drafted well and did have a core of young veteran contributors.

Well, the problem with all of that is that neither Saban nor Mueller and Cameron were able to avoid the issues that plagued their predecessors. Saban and Mueller suffered from previous bad drafts. But then they also drafted poorly, leaving a new legacy of draft stinkage to the new administration

Neither Saban nor Mueller/Cameron could do excellent work although they had the second overall selection and high picks in rounds thereafter in 2005. They didn't do good work although they had three picks in the first two round in 2007.

And so today's Dolphins, a team that should be ripe with talent from the 2005, 2006, and 2007 drafts, are bereft of that core of young starters and contributors. Why?

Because the 2005, 2006, and 2007 drafts pretty much picked up where the 2000-2004 drafts left off. Consider:

The 2005 draft: Saban's first draft included Ronnie Brown, Matt Roth, Channing Crowder, Travis Daniels, Anthony Alabi and Kevin Vickerson. The Dolphins didn't have a sixth-round pick that year because that went to San Diego in exchange for David Boston. Well, only Brown, Crowder and Roth became starters and all of them showed flaws early and often. Brown couldn't stay healthy and although he's been able to do that recently, he is by no means a star -- something you expect from the draft's second overall pick. Brown is solid. And he's a free agent. There is absolutely no certainty his Dolphins career isn't over. Crowder? Ordinary. He gets his share of tackles, but as an inside linebacker always around the action, he rarely finds interceptions, or forces fumbles, or recovers fumbles or makes game-defining tackles. He's just ... there. Roth? He earned a starting job with the Dolphins in 2008 after languishing his first three seasons. And it seemed to be working, but then something crazy happened in 2009 and the Dolphins simply cut him. I'm sorry, but I don't blame Roth on that one. He lied to coach Tony Sparano about a groin injury. That was weird. Guess what? Other players have said and done worse and are still on the team. The strange thing is the Dolphins got zero for Roth, who was cut and immediately scooped up by Cleveland where he became a starter the past season-and-a-half.

So sum total of players still on the team: Crowder, with Brown a looming free agent. Sum total of starters: Two. Sum total of stars: 0.

The 2006 draft: Jason Allen was picked 16th overall, followed by Derek Hagan in the third round, Joe Toledo in the fourth, Manny Wright (via the supplemental draft) in the fifth, Fred Evans in the seventh, Rodrique Wright in the seventh and Devin Aromashodu in the seventh. The second round pick went to Minnesota for Daunte Culpepper, but that's another story. Allen was a bust from the beginning and the constant change of coaching staffs hurt him because everyone moved him from safety to corner and back again at least twice. It happened seven times in total. The most successful of those moves came in 2010 when Allen won a starting job at the dawn of the season. Sorry, that was not a statement of how great Allen was playing. It was a statement of how little choice the Dolphins had. Allen survived for half the season, then was benched, then was cut. He goes down as a first round bust. Hagan? He's still in the league but he never made it work in Miami, where he dropped passes, missed assignments and wasn't dynamic at all. Wright was a joke who cried his first practice. What a waste of talent. Toledo was looking good his first training camp then he broke a foot. Then he started recovering and broke it again getting out of the cold tub. Gone. Fred Evans showed tons of potential but he thought he had arrived when he hadn't. He started going out. He got drunk one night on South Beach. He got into a cab and threw up. He got arrested. Cam Cameron cut him two days later. Wright bounced from practice squad to active roster but never really factored. Aromashodu was cut in training camp.

So sum total of players still on the team: Zero. Sum total of starting players: Zero. Sum total of stars: Zero. 

The 2007 draft: This was Mueller's one and only chance to run the draft. Looking back three years later, it was not good. Ted Ginn Jr was the ninth overall pick, John Beck went in the second round as did Samson Satele. Lorenzo Booker came in the third round, Paul Soliai came in the fourth, Reagan Mauia came in the sixth, Drew Mormino in the sxith, Kelvin Smith in the seventh along with Brandon Fields and Abraham Wright. Where to begin? Ginn was a reach. He is fast but hates contact and has no passion for football, which is problem because football is a contact sport that requires passion. Ginn was constantly seeking the sideline and often shrunk in big moments. He was a good return man, but those usually get drafted in the fourth or fifth rounds or come as undrafted free agents. It speaks volumes that Miami could only get a fifth rounder for Ginn when he was traded last offseason. Beck was like Ginn in the respect that the game seemed bigger than him. He played nervous. He looked overmatched. He was put in a position to fail by the Dolphins coaching staff and he did exactly that. Satele started right away and remained there for two seasons. He continues to start in Oakland. There was talent to work with there, but he wasn't big enough for the current administration. He was not a bad pick. Soliai and Fields are the lone remaining vestiges of that draft still on the roster and Soliai is expected to become a free agent.

So sum total of players still on the team: Two. Sum total of starters: Two. Sum total of stars: 0.

The bottom line?

Amazingly, Nick Saban's second draft was the worst of the bunch.

The 2005-2007 drafts have given today's Dolphins four players on the roster, all of which are starters but none of which are stars. Think about that.

These are guys that are in their fourth through sixth years of experience. These are guys ages 26 to 29. These are the drafts that should be forming the established, experienced, cornerstones of the franchise. These three drafts were supposed to be the ones that laid a new foundation after Dave Wannstedt. Instead they offered nothing in the way of stars and little in the numbers of starters.

Combine that with the 2000-2004 drafts that were a dry bones experience, you start to see why the Dolphins still have so much work to do. You start to see why a quick solution has not been possible.

This franchise went from 2000-2007 drafting in a manner that got people fired or replaced for whatever reason. And their drafts are a testament why that happened.

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Brees is a unique player. Not all QB's need that much patience.

wolfman1313,

I've argued that point on here before. Guys want to ignore this fact. They want to argue that the reason Rivers was drafted was because Brees and Schott didin't get along. It may have been true but it's complete bunk!! They drafted Rivers because they were losing/had lost confidence in Brees. End of story....

I'm not saying Henne is Brees or that Henne is even going to pan out. What I am saying is that after two years, under the conditions that Henne has played it's impossible to completely evaluate him. What if it's been Henning all along? What if he's a lousy communicator or a control freak or a real SOB to work with. None of is know. Until we see Henne out from under Henning control and with some more help, we just don't know what we've got yet. This year will tell us a whole lot more.

kris/ALoco, from ALoco's mouth to God's ears. PLEASE Shanihan, PLEASE start John Beck when we play you this year. I would like nothing more. kris, just don't drive on the Beltway following that game, Beck will cause all sorts of road rage.

Let's see, 3 teams, and he couldn't ever get past the #3 (until the Shanahan/McNabb fiasco). Yeah, he's a keeper, lol!

you dolphins fans are CLOWNS. keep on dreamin about having a god at qb like AARON RODGERS. you losers passed on brees twice picked r.brown over a.rodgers. what a joke you losers in miami are. the jets are another group of losers sanchez my a**. AARON RODGERS is the lord period period j.ireland and t.sparno=dumb and dumber. what a joke your organization is.

DC,

THE POINT ABOUT JHON BECK IS TO GIVE MORE YEARS TO HENNE TO COME TO HIS OWN ,THAT ONE SPOT DOESN'T NEED RUSHING ,HE JUST STARTED ONE FULL YEAR .I BET YOU DON'T WAIT FOR YOUR PIZZA MORE THAN 10 MINUTES AT A RESTURANTE .

Aloco - I'm saying 4-5 years before a player is truly in his 100% prime. You get a core of these guys and that's when you start to see consecutive playoff runs, conference championships, superbowls, etc.

I would agree that 3-4 years the team should have a pretty good inclination of where a particular player is headed. My general rule of thumb for the QB position is 3 consecutive years starting. After 3 years of consecutive starts, the organizatio should know enough to perform a thourough analysis of what they have going forward. I think SD jumped the gun when they drafted Rivers...should have given Brees another year (course I wasn't saying that at the time)...but it worked out for them OK in the end anyway. Imagine if Rivers would have been a bust though. They would have had their franchise guy in Brees but be pretty much obligated to let him go when his contract was to get Rivers in. Brees goes on to great success in New Orleans and Rivers stinks it up. They would have had that owners head on a stick. Personally, I think they got lucky.

If Aaron Rodgers had been drafted here he wouldn't have been nearly the quarterback he would have become. He would have been the number two QB in the draft and the team likely would have played him from the very beginning. The pressure to be 'the next Dan Marino' would have been too much for him to handle and he would have been sunk before he started. GB did a great job of having this guy wait to take over the reins of that team. It's the difference between what the successful franchises do and the mediocre ones.

stanky look in the mirror buddy. There is one idiot on this blog and you can tell by their name. Stanky. MAybe you forgot how to spell stinky.
Your definition of a star is different than mine. A star is someone you build a franchize around. A star is in the top 5 for the position all time.

Wilfork? a great player but not a star.
If wilfork is a star then so is Jason Taylor, so is zach thomas, so is Sam madison.
The o-line? give me a break. Yes they are good at pass protection but tell me on person on that o-line that would be considered top 5 of all time?
Seymore? If he was a star billicheat wouldn't have traded him. Again great player but not a star.

Brees/Henne tough comparison. The expectations on Brees were far higher than they ever were with Henne. Brees did create some doubts early on, but he was never as bad as Henne has been - so many batted balls, underthrows, overthrows, misreads, poor accuracy. Brees looked like he was trying to lead, Henne doesn't. I think Henne will have a shot the first few games to show something, but not much more.

shoulda, coulda, woulda. the past is the past and there is nothing that can be done to correct it. miami didn't pick flacco, rodgers, etc., etc., etc. but, they did pick joe theisman and he shunned them for the cfl.
the point is that it is time to put the past behind and start looking towards the future. i'm sure that ireland and sparano aren't sitting around lamenting past drafts and crying about how good the team would be if others before them hadn't blown it.
no, instead, they are probably looking at every way possible to improve the offense this year as much as they can by getting as many players as they can to do so.
this year's draft will be about increasing speed on offense but you can bet that ireland and sparano both have a qb on the radar. i wouldn't be surprised if they have daboll involved in the evaluation process.
when you look at the qb's coming out this year there is only one that is the closest to being nfl ready and that is ponder. so, if they are looking to take a qb that may be able to help immediately he would be the most obvious. that being said i wouldn't be surprised to see them do what others on the board have suggested and that is take two qb's. ponder may be able to help from day one but with his health issues they may look at taking a second qb to try and develop and take over should ponder's health become an issue. there are two qb's that come to mind and they are kaepernick and stanzi. both are projects but both are intelligent and both have nice arms.
stanzi doesn't have the strong arm of kaepernick but he improved his accuracy tremendously this past season and he has a great delivery. he gets rid of the ball quickly once he makes a decision on who to throw it to. he also has nice pocket presence.
the second, kaepernick, is much more athletic and has the gun. he may fit miami's mold more due to them wanting to increase the overall speed on offense.
one last qb comes to mind and that is mallet. mallet also has the gun but there are now rumours about some major issues surrounding his off the field activities. nothing has been confirmed but a lot of scouts say they won't touch him. i don't know. they may just be playing possum. being from arkansas, mallet is probably familiar with that. however, if he slides in the draft he may be another qb they can add to the roster along with ponder if this was their strategy.
we're just going to have to wait and see. no doubt we will be surprised.

FAKE ALOCO @ 11;48


I NEVER INSULT ANY ONE

Phinsfan78 - Many QBs have had that time and more. Some have the benefit of riding the pine and learning the ropes while holding the clip board. Others are throne into the fire and are allowed to make their mistakes as they develope. It is pretty rare for a QB to come out and start their rookie year, 2nd year, whatever and have a great deal of success. When they do, it is generally because they have playmakers around them that hide those flaws.

Craig M @ 11:45

Most preposterous post I've read all day. You've just rendered all of your opinions meaningless with that one.

WATCH IF THE DLOPHINS DONT TAKE JCAORY HARIS WEATH THE APE CITY MONKEES PICK HIM AND WINN MULITPLE SOPER BOWELS.

GRAIG M,


ARRON ROGERS PLAYED WITH PRESSURE ON HIM IN MIN LIVING UP TO FAVRE WHO'S BETTER THAN MARINO .

HOW MANY RINGS DID MARAINO WIN?

califinfan - I have to respectfully disagree with you on Brees and not ever playing as bad as Henne. In comparing year three (2nd season starts for both):

QB Rating:
Brees - 67.5
Henne - 75.4

Passing Yards:
Brees - 2,108
Henne - 3,301

Avg Yrd per comp:
Brees - 5.9
Henne - 6.7

Comp %:
Brees - 57.6%
Henne - 61.4%

TDs:
Brees - 11
Henne - 15

Int:
Brees - 15
Henne - 19

I only bring up the comparison because so many lament on passing on Brees....but they would have been saying the same things about Brees as Henne.

ALoco, you're absolutely right. We should give Henne 5 more years to prove himself. Because this year is a CBA, next year he'll have been in the league 5 years, and that's always a milestone, so let's wait and see what he can do then. The 3 years following we should just add on like "extras" on a sundae (whipped cream, nuts, sprinkles).

Heck, we really can't tell if Henne will ever come into his own until he retires, so let's just play out his whole career and see where we are then. Kurt Warner's final year was probably his best year playing the position, so if we don't give Henne at least that long to show his stuff, then we're not really being fair to him.

Craig M,

Green Bay basically had to shove Favre out the door just to give Rodgers the chance to be "the next Brett Favre".

No pressure at all there for Rodgers, who just happened to be one of those darn 1st round qb's.

darrilo,

That's where you're wrong ny friend. Alex Smith is the consensus number one pick of the draft in 2005, goes number one overall is touted as the saviour and the guy who is going to take the team to success and is paid handsomely for it. They throw him to the wolves on a team with few playmakers and mediocre coaching. Five years later they are still waiting for Smith to show up.

Aaron Rodgers, generally regarded as a top five pick, falls all the way to like 23rd or 26th in the draft, is not expected to start any time soon for GB, is paid FAR less than
Smith, gets to sit and watch and learn behind Favre for three years and when he finally gets a chance to play, has a decent surrounding cast around him.

Two total different scenarios. One guy succeeds and one guy fails. Now you tell me....think back to 2005 and the Dolphins team of that year, who I think had just come off a 4-12 season under Wannstedt. Which scenario would Rodgers have been closer to? The one that Smith experienced or what Rodgers actually went through in GB. I think that's an easy one....the fan base in Miami would have roasted him after one season when they didn't see the results they wanted.

Truth hurts guys....

DC,

READ WOLFMAN1313 POST @ 12.00 .HENNE COULD TURN INTO A GREAT QB BASED ON THOSE NUMBERS .

P.S ...I LOVE WHEN YOU TURNED MY 2 YEARS INTO 5 YEARS ,I WONDER IF YOU EVER BEEN TO SCHOOL ?

how 'bout this stat. henne = 1-6 at the joe in 2010. he f'n blows......!!!!!

a lot is TWO WORDs you morons!

On another note......list that bust of a trade-down from last years draft. Passes on Dez Bryant (also would have helped as a returner as well as another threat on the opposite side of Marshall) and Earl Thomas (will be a pro-bowl S w/i a few years) and traded down to recoup a second round pick. Got a mismatched (not a 3-4 sized player) DL w. a history of broken legs...he played all of ONE game this past season. Great drafting Fist pump. These idiots have already mentioned trading down this year. Worked so well last year!

Utdolfan,

Favre was shown the door because he was jerking the Packers around. They were tired of him saying he was retiring and then reneging on what he said. They had already commited to Rodgers, their future, when Favre changed his mind again. To have surrendered to what Favre wanted would have damaged Rodgers permanently.

Three years he waited to start behind Favre. That's a lot different than a kid fresh out of College. Take it for what it is but Rodgers has said he has never felt pressure to replace Favre and I for one believe him.

JOHn B - as you leave the premises please don't let the door hit you in the ...... (ya know!!!)

Craig, you really think the next Vernon Carey or Ronnie Brown or Jamar Fletcher (just 3 of the players passed over in the past over selecting a 1st round qb) is really too valuable to pass up in favour of a potential franchise QB??

Come on, we have no choice but to address the most important position on the team. We JUST CAN'T CONTEND EVER until we do so. You may be happy in selecting someone that will turn our 7-9 team into a 9-7 team, but I am not. There is no satisfaction in that. I want to get a guy that is going to make us 11-5, 12-4 on an annual basis for the next 10 years or at least has that chance to do so.

You say there are no very good QBs in waiting? Hmm, many people thought that about Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees too so nobody knows for sure right now. But I do know this team will not become a contender by addressing any other position on this team. It may or may not be addressed by the Qb pick. At one time or another all the top teams in this league have taken this chance - I just want the Dolphins to do that too.

Another point, this team is too talented to be bad enough to draft 1st overall and get into teh Andrew Luck sweepstakes. We are good enugh to win 5-6 games alone just on our defense. Unless we get 18 players placed on the IR, we will nto be picking 1st overall and we will continue to be mired in the middle of nowhere at 7-9, 8-8.

Whats weird about this blog (if weird is the right word) is that back in DEC...the big 4 (Mallett, Newton, Locker and Luck) were all anybody talked about on this blog....

and the Big Question was....I WONDER IF ANY OF THEM WILL FALL TO MIAMI? Can Miami move up to get one of the SURE FIRE/CAN'T MISS QBs...

2 Months later and after the Pundits and Experts have changed their tune...the parrorts on here have change their tune to match the "experts" as well....

Now the talk is none these guys is a starter...they are all projects....and Blaine Gabbert and some Dude named Stanzi are the steals of the draft in the 2nd and 3rd RD.....

WTF......

Nobody mentioned Stanzi in all of 2010...not on this blog......

Just becuase an ESPN reporter or 2011 draft.com mentions somebody it doesn't mske them the 2nd comming....and because Mel Kiper says they may fall a bit doesn't mean their skills have diminished to the point of a career back-up....Geesh....

Get a grip....form YOUR own opinions on some of this shyt....and change them if you like...but change them because YOU saw something that YOU can speak about....not because the latest radio station told you what to think......

Wasn't locker projected top 5 pick last year from the experts and the NUMBER 1 QB.....

DC,AER YUO RUNNING FOR PRESADENT OF THE GANG OF DEFEET OR EAR YOU JUST A BRONW DONKY ON HIS BRAEK DELIVERING SUBS?

Rodgers went to a team with a much better roster than the 4-12 Dolphins team of 2005. Look at GB's draft track record over the last five years. A lot less misses than the Dolphins draft track record. To think that Rodgers would have led this team to a Super Bowl by now as he did Green Bay's is a big stretch.

ARRON ROGERS MY HERO= 1 SB + MVP IN THAT GAME
PRET FAVRE========== 1 SB + NO MVP


ARRON ROGERS IN ONE YEAR HE DID MORE THAN FAVRE DID IN 62 YEARS

KRIS HOW MUCH DO YOU CHERGE PER DELERY AT YOUR PIZZA PLACE?

And Craig, henne is a 3 year pro, not a 2 year pro. Stop ignoring that 1st year - it should have counted for him to learn something!!

Just read that Tate Forcier visited the U. Man, that would be a nice acquisition for the U - this guy is a pro QB in the makiing.

Another thing Craig, I was not very warm to the idea of Cam Newton but I recently heard a couple of pro players, when asked who is the most impressive and exciting player ready for the pro game in college, a couple said Cam Newton. I also heard one pro scout say this is the next Ben Roethlisberger. Not quite sure that I see it but if it turns out to be that way and he is a Miami Dolphin next year, I will cheer for him 100%

Armando,

You forgot about Vernon Carey (2004)... that is all

Mark in TO,

Really good post at 12:10 pm......I can appreciate your conviction....we just don't happen to agree.

You say that every team takes chances. I disagree with you there. I don't see the Steelers and Packers taking chances and that's why they are contenders every year (and please don't tell me that taking Rodgers at 26 in 2005 was a chance). The key to success is hitting more often than you miss. It's part of the reason the Colts are sliding back to the back....they've hit very seldom over the last few years and their roster is starting to get old.

Craig M - you are too funny, using Alex Smith to back up your point...you conveniently picked a total bust to back your ridiculous point that nobody but you could possibly take seriously. You conveniently didn't pick any of the GREAT QB's that started their first year and did well, from Marino, Elway, Kelley to more recently Ryan, Flacco, Bradford.

By your logic, no first round QB should start their first year or they are likely to fail. Ridiculous. Truth hurts?? Silliness doesn't.

GOOD POINT MARK ABOUT CAM NEWTON AND ALSO KRIS IS RIGHT ,2 MONTH AG ALL THE TALK WAS ABOUT THE 4 QB'S .


LET'S DRAFT A QB IN THE FIRST ROUND AND NOT LISTEN TO THE SABATOR DB .

Craig, Aaron Rodgers was considered a #1 pick through most of his college season and got taken over late by Alex Smith and because of an elongated release fell badly. I still remember that draft vividly - Aaron was in the green room as one of the blue chip picks and waited there alone for 4 hours to be selected. In the end, he showed everyone including the dummy Saban and the Miami Dolphins.

Green Bay is the best qb factory in the league and that is whey they've been consistently in the mix over the last 20 years.

I think the CBA deal will dictate if we think about drafting one of these guys, or passing. It's not even about the money, but the time. None of these guys are ready day 1. We all realize that these are projects. Well what usually happens with any project when the project has delays, or has interuptions in it's early stages? Usually this project fails, or is shelved in favor of a new project. What I mean is that there is a very real possibility that these rookies won't even see a playbook until August. You guys may not think that offseason reps mean anything...No big deal. Wrong. This is where the rookies get the only one on one instruction, and their first introduction to the offense. If it is training camp before they step foot on the field. They are in essence a whole season behind. Do you think the coaching staff is going to have time to do all they can to teach, when the season is 3 weeks away. Exelerated training camp means get the reps to the guys that will be playing. All of the rest of you guys grab a knee.Some may think this isn't an issue because this rookie would be on the bench anyway. I disagree. To me it is like a day lost. Anyone who owns a buisness knows that you have to work twice as hard to recover from the days when your doors are shut. Same with a project player.

WHY DON'T WE LET MARK LOOSE AND LET HIM WRITE AT A FREE WELL ,SO WE CAN LEARN SOME THING .

DC - I think Henne only gets one more year and I believe he'll have to compete for the starting job. I don't think the organization will just hand it to him like last year. They will bring in a couple FA posibilities (provided CBA gets done)...(if not, could be too late to bring in a FA to compete). They will also draft a QB in the later rounds.

I would be surprised if they do 1st round for QB for a couple reasons.

1.) they would essentially be throwing in the towel on Henne; even if he were to compete and win against a rookie, and even if he played good next season, the organization's hand would be forced to put in the 1st rounder at some point...probably not extend Henne's contract after next year and make the Rookie the starter in 2012.

2.) there have been a few good drafts in the past years for 1st round talent QBs....this is not one of them IMO. More and more mocks have Gabbert as the only QB to go in the 1st this year with Newton being the wild card. I'm seeing a lot more mocks having Mallett going early to mid 2nd and Locker falling all the way to 3rd. Consensus seems to be building that if Newton doesn't go in the top 10...he will fall all the way to early/mid 2nd round. This is not the year to take a QB in the 1st.

That said, I think the Fins will draft a QB in the later rounds. They should draft a QB every year until they have this thing straightened out.

YOUR DOORS NEVER SHUT ,PEOPLE AT YOUR AREA CAN LIVE WITH SNOW ALL 12 MO AND THEY LOVE TO COME OUT EATING THAT PIZZA OF YOURS LEAVING THEIR WIVES BEHIND .

darrilo,

If you want to have a mature conversation I'm all in but if you want to get into name-calling you can hit the bricks!! Because we disagree on something doesn't mean you're right and I'm an idiot. I simply made the point that Rodgers wouldn't have had the success here in Miami that he's had in GB because they would hav started him since day one and he would have floundering under the coaching and lack of talent we had on the roster. If you want to disagree then that's fine but there's no need for name calling.

Mark, another good post at 12:18pm. and your facts about the 2005 season and draft are right on. Doesn't change how I feel Rodgers would have done if he was picked second and had come to Miami. It's what I feel will happen with one of the young guys this year. We, as I'm sure you would agree are anything but a QB factory.

Craig, Ben Roethlisberger was selected 11th or was it 10th overall. Isn't that taking a chance? He was by no means a consensus can't miss prospect.

Craig M you are putting words in my mouth. Please show me where I called you a name? Don't make things up just to make others look bad. I'm waiting, point out where I ever called you a name.......

Mark in Toronto,

I will give you Roethlisberger. The problem I have is we have done this too much over the last few years. The talent level on the roster just isn't good enough. I would agree with you that just our defence alone will win us 4-5 games next year but what if injuries happen and somehow guys like Marshall and others mail it in and rebel against the coaching staff. A 2-3 win season isn't out of the realm of possibility.

darrillo,

You talk about 'ridiculous'points, 'silliness' and 'being too funny'. If you think I'm here to entertain you then you've got the wrong guy.

Again you don't have to agree with me but at least watch your comebacks.....I'm not on here to ridicule you....I don't expect it back.

Mark in Toronto...Off subject. About Tate Forcier..He is going to UM. But that UM is the University of Montana. This has been a rumor here for 2 weeks that has gained a ton of speed. The Griz run the same offense as Michigan, and he won't have to sit. The schools that are still on his radar....Kansas State, Washington, Arizona, Montana. The UM(miami visit) was already set up. Why not go to Coconut Grove for a few days on their dime.

darrilo,

I'll stick to conversations with others. If you want to go toe to toe on here I'm up for it.....if it's going to turn into a p*ssing contest and personal attacks I'm not interested. I'm here to share an opinion and defend my thoughts....if you don't like them that's fine but let's cut the sarcasm....

Mike Tomlin was a huge chance, that worked out ok too.

darrilo,

If you want to go back and look at your 11:55 post, I think you'll get what I mean.

To call someone's post 'proposterous' and 'meaningless' says all I need to know about you. If you've got a rebuttal then let's hear it....otherwise STFU!

this team has loads of talent, the defense was especially surprising and kept us in games, and offense is built to, i think henne jus needs new coaching but hell u can stick mcnabb at QB and we become a contender (washington was not a good situation for him, hes got some spark left) henne was playing with handcuffs on give me another year

Carmello Anthony to the Lakers for Andrew Bynum???

kris,

I think I would rather take a shot with a guy like Locker, a qb who had IT last year, but had a down senior season. Some team may be able to get him in the 2nd round, still too early to tell, as things will change. Last year, top 5 pick.

Remember Beck? His BYU career put him at 4th-5th round, then the experts started (over)analyzing and shot him up to the 2nd round status.

We have taken 1st round QBs too much over the years? We have only done this once in the last 28 years.

Craig... look, was a mistake to even engage you. You don't read and consider what other people say if it goes against your thinking. I've often seen other bloggers go back and forth endlessly in frustration with you because you often refuse to acknowledge what they write, or you make things up, saying the said things they didn't, just as you did again with me. So I know it isn't me, its you.

If you don't like others opinions, or can't handle a little sarcasm on a blog, you shouldn't be here... I will certainly not waste another second reading or responding to you. Happy battles.

kris - I for one have been saying for a long time that none of these 1st round projected QBs are a sure fire hit and have advocated all along for not taking one given a variety of red flags for all. I am curious though as to whether teams will stick with the concept of BPA or reach for one of these QBs out of desperation. If they reach, I could see all 4 going in the 1st....if teams stick to BPA I think we'll only see 1 or 2 come off the board before the 2nd.

In RE to Locker...yeah, he was projected a top 5 last year...which was before he went back to school and had a horrible season and a disaster of a senior bowl week. The guy is a superbly gifted athlete and seems to have all the tools but is very inconsistent and has accuracy issues, particularly in the pocket. He's a much better passer on the run and when he's improvising the play. Plays tend to break down quickly with him as his first reaction seems to be to get on the move and make the play with his feet and then throw. He will have significant troubles in timing, etc.

I get to watch a lot of Huskie football due to it being my dad's alma mater.

Wolfman...what is BPA? Once you tell me I can better address your post.....

I have to disagree Craig/wolfman1313. Alot of QB's in today's game start if not in their first year, the next. And you can tell if that QB has the "mojo" or not. Henne does not have any 'mojo'. He couldn't connect on a deep route if his momma's life depended on it. And he doesn't scramble or make people miss. Makes no sense.

BPA = Best Player Available

NICE TO READ ALL THESE NICE POSTS ,ALL EDUCATED PEOPLE WITH CORRECT ENGLISH AND GREAT MANERS .

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