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Did Ingram kill himself by running slow? No Did it help? No

The Dolphins are in the market for a running back in the NFL draft.

The Dolphins are also in the market for speed on offense and the NFL draft is expected to deliver that as well.

So it stands to reason if general manager Jeff Ireland can find a running back who is fast, he can meet two needs for the price of one pick. That's the reason Alabama running back Mark Ingram was such a popular guess as the Dolphins first round pick (15th overall) according to many draft gurus with opinions. The marriage just seemed to fit.

And then Ingram ran the 40-yard dash as the NFL Combine on Sunday. And his time was a pedestrian 4.62 in one clocking, which raised some red flags and eyebrows because, well, it's never great news when a smallish back cannot run away from bigger defenders.

So is Ingram, the 2009 Heisman Tropy winner from Alabama, thus eliminated from Miami's list of possible draft day targets?

Former NFL defensive back Corey Chavous, a draft guru in his own right and founder of nfldraftnasty.com, doesn't think so. In fact, Chavous now thinks Ingram has joined some very good company.

"A lot of running backs that are the greatest of all time that haven't had the greatest of 40 times," Chavous said today on my radio show, Armando and the Amigo. "Emmitt Smith ran high 4.5s and low 4.6s. Walter Payton was also 4.5 type guy. And that's kind of what [Ingram] has got to be compared to now if you're saying he's going to be an elite running back. You look at some of the better running backs that have played with that same build and stature that haven't had great 40-yard dash times."

You can listen to the complete Armando and the Amigo interview yourself on the podcast right here. Chavous also discusses the quarterback that most impressed him during the combine.

One thing that Chavous did point out is that Ingram was not supposed to run slow. It was indeed a surprise -- obviously not a pleasant one.

"I was surprised because Ingram ran 10.7 in the 100 meters in high school so him running a 4.6 surprised me," Chavous said. "It seems he got into a stride too early and didn't stay in his explosion phase long enough."

That suggests Ingram can rehabilitate that time when he has a pro day at Alabama or a personal workout for various teams -- including the Dolphins. But even then, the 40-time is not a tolling bell of doom.

I do repeat, it is a red flag. Remember that Ingram spent parts of the 2010 season battling injury concerns. So teams will want to know if the 40 time is an outgrowth of lingering injury issues.

But will it erase him from Miami's radar? Probably not.

My take? I personally believe the Dolphins are in trade down mode already. I believe they want to add a second round pick and the only real way to accomplish that is trade out of No. 15 to lower in the first round and add a low second rounder to boot.

But you obviously need a partner to participate in that scenario. Barring that scenario presenting itself, the Dolphins will obviously still consider Ingram -- although it is hardly a certainty they will take him.

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This just in.... Channing(Duh)Crowder has been signed as a spokesman for Nordictract Staionary bike company.............Mr. Dave Wilson(Of Nordic.com) states "Mr.Crowder is a natural endorser for our company having rode the bike throughout training camp and 60% of his football carreer, We Welcome Mr.Crowder to our family"....

Jeff Ireland will pick a kicker in the first round.......(Fist pump)........

THE NFL ISSUED A STATEMENT SAYING....... NO PUNISHMENT FOR HENNE AND DOLPHINS SINCE IT WAS NON ISSUE AS FAR AS CONCERNED US .


IN RB YOU NEED A SMART NEXT TO A DECENT SPEED,WE DON'T NEED A MISSILE .

MARK INGRAM ALREADY HAS 4 TEAMS TRYING HARD TO GET HIM ,HE DOESN'T NEED TO INJURE HIMSELF IN THIS CRAP CALLED ,COMBINE .

LATER TONIGHT .

Lil Aloco, Should'nt you be working so you can pay are bill's with your tax dollars, So we can just "Blog" all day?????Get to work.......

Ingram is very similar to Ronnie Brown. The only difference is age. Sign Ronnie for cheaper and use the pick for a NEED. Maybe the Illinois RB if we trade down. Thats my thought.

CUBAN,
I HAVE MY LABTOP WITH ME AT WORK AND I HARDLY COME TO POST UNLESS IT'S NESSERY .


LATER TONIGHT .

Poizen, That's not a great endorsement for Ingram.....

I don't trust anything or anybody who has been molded by Nick Saban. He's a coaching version of an STD.

The last Nick Saban product we drafted in the first round was named 'Jason Allen'...how did that turn out.

I don't care what kind of 'football factory' Alabama is. Let's just pass on any player from the Crimson Tide.

No, it really isn't. He is good, in my opinion but not elite. Same as Brown, except brown could have been elite with a good kneee,.... or 2.

Ingram is not like Ronnie Brown. Brown is 6' 230, Ingram is more 5'10"/5'11" 215. Brown ran a 4.4 at his combine, vs. 4.65 for Ingram. Ingram is more elusive than Brown, and Brown has lost a lot of his speed with all the injuries he's had.

LOL@ OC Stevens........

Well this is a load of garbage we need a RB and he's the best one in the draft as far as a complete back. Once again I see we'll pass on a talent that will be good only to get a lesser talent so we can add another lesser talent in the 2nd rd joy.

DRAFT INGRAM don't be stupid fins like you were last year with DEZ, boy if only we had drafted him we'd be set a WR now, while our WR is decent now it could've been really good.

Now we'll pass on the best RB in the draft over 40 yd times??? Did anyone care to see his AGILITY DRILLS which is more of an indicator of a good back in the NFL as that's more of what he'll be doing on the field to miss tackles.

Michael, Running style is very similar to Brown out of college and speed comparison. The point is do we put another draft pick there if ronnie can do sililar types of things including running the wild cat if we keep it, or do we draft a fast guy.

Brown is still sub 4.8 on the 40.

I am not saying I KNOW WHAT TO DO, I gave an opinion. however if you look at Ingram out of college and Brown out of college their running styles are very similar.

What is meant by elusive is that Ingram can make tacklers miss, where Brown wants to run over them without any moves. Speed here doesn't matter becasue Brown has lost much of the speed that is showed at his combine back in the day.

Ingram can make guys miss in college, it will be much harder in the NFL, and the natural progression for a NFL back is to add muscle, which will more often or not slow a guy down. That is why I am scared of Ingram. Ronnie is a good betwwen the takles guy, we need an outside the tackles kind of back IMO.

I see Ingram plowing guys in college also, which is where I guess I see comparisons to Brown. but in the day Brown made people miss nicely.

I agree Brown has lost a step, or 2. But he still can get through the line when there is a hole. So we can get that with him, then find a burner to compliment him.

Who ever is the RB the team needs good line play.

The Raiders pulling LG Gallary is available as a FA.

Getting to the 2nd level was a problem for the Dolphins last year. Perhaps Gallary could be a good answer.

Perhaps Carey can move to RG. This staff has no problems asking players to change position.

He would be an expensive RG but Carey has been a pretty consistent good player for the Dolphins over the years. A move to G might extend his career.

That would leave a hole at RT where Tyron Smith, OT, USC could be a good pick if he were to slip to the Dolphins at #15.

Just a thought. I would love to see the Dolphins have a dominant offensive line some day.

Oh and also, sign Ronnie.

How I adore Miss Judy Garland. "A Star is Born" is on Turner Classic right now. She was just fabulous.

In regards to Armando's last blog:


Henne talked about a new offense.

Daboll talked about a new offense.

As long as he didn't hand Henne an actual playbook, no foul, no story.

Henne is allowed to meet new coaches for introductory purposes. That's all they have to explain.

As far as Henne's intelligence, excuse the guy for trying to be on top of the new offense. Excuse the guy for being at the facility trying to focus on a season that might not even happen. Excuse the guy for wanting to be the defacto OC and help get the team rolling in the middle of a greed fest that might rob us fans of a season.

NOPE! You numb nuts want to make fun of his smarts because he's not studying up on CBA's and all the BS bylaws threatening the season and making these jerks billions of dollars.

I'm sure Henne didn't call this meeting. I'm sure it was the organization or someone in the organization above Henne.

If any rules were being violated, I believe management should have made it clear and advised Henne not to mention it to anyone, especially the media.

All of you that want to blame a player for this are simply ignorant DuuuuuuuSH Bags!!!!

Ultimately and for damage control, all they have to say is that "a new offense" was discussed, period. Everyone already knows a new offense will be installed. While no playbooks were presented, it was mentioned that the new offense will be more like N.E.'s/Jets. Duh! You know, an offense that actually got their teams to the playoffs.

This is the biggest dumb a s s non-story that I've ever seen. Then to try an blame it on a player? Get a life and an education while you're at it.

PS: Mr, Goodell I hope you and your billionaire friends can settle this petty dispute with your spoiled millionaire employees in time for us hard working everyday fans to enjoy the upcoming season.

Not EVEN a Valhalla!!!!

PSS: Nice Armando, scraping the bottom of the barrell on this one. Interesting you decided to spin it the way you did.

nice interview w/Kosar on your podcast, Mando. He's always good to listen too. A great QB in his own time and he's pretty smart and articulate. why the heck is he working for the PATS and not the dolphins!!!


DONT TAKE RUNNING BACK IN ROUND 1

TOO SHORT A SHELF LIFE AND LATE ROUND/ FREE AGENTS REGUALLRY COME OUT OF NO WHERE AND BECOME FIRST LINE BACKS

I have to agree Armando that Miami is in trade down mode, but that also depends if someone slips to them that they didn't think would.

I think they should trade down if possible and pick the best two offensive players available. I hope a QB is one of the 2 picks. I'm ot impressed with Cam newton though.

This is sweet music to my ears. I'm past hating on Henne, he's the QB of this team until I see/hear otherwise, so all I can say about him is good luck and keep progressing.

Now, I'm on to hating on Ingram. And my hatred is fierce. I DO NOT LIKE THE KID! Not necessarily anything about him either (I'm probably not being fair or logical). I just don't like him, sorry. I hope we don't draft him.

I have no factual basis for my dislike other than I think there are plenty other backs that might be as good or better than Ingram later in the Draft. I also think speed here (at this position) is the MOST important factor this year. It would be nice to have a back that can block, even better if they are a threat catching out of the backfield, but speed should be the priority.

I wonder if Walter Payton or Emmitt Smith would even be as good as they were then now. Maybe, but I'm not convinced. The NFL defenders are faster and bigger than ever before. The game has opened up and become less of a ground battle. And if "excitement" is something the Owner wants to see on the field, I'm not sure Ingram is the guy to bring that.

So there's my reasoning (cause I know people are gonna bite my head off because I'm not following the pack to Ingram). That's fine, you do you, I'll do me. I could be absolutely, horribly wrong, but so might you guys.

Also, it's not just a question of Ingram. It's who else did you miss getting Ingram when you could have gotten that player in the first round, and then a guy at least as good as Ingram later.

I will stand in judgment of our first pick either way.

Right rg. If there's one position you don't draft in the 1st round, it's RB. Of course if he looks to be a can't miss, world beater, then you go for it. Question is, is he?

I don't think Mando brought up anything that was not already known by the powers that be. Look Mando did not break it to the NFL. So I would back off of Mando here. He informed us in the "press" type of way, and I thank him for the story.

that being said, I agree with one thing. How the hell do you blame Henne? Call him stupid? The guy is a smart guy who did not know of a rule that his coaches ALSO did not know since they did not comminicate it. I bet 80% of the players have no clue about it.

All the Henne haters will use this as fuel for their fire, and really that is dumb. I don't care if you don't like the guy or want him to start. I was not happy with his play last year either.

But this NON ISSUE in the media now shows the guy is working his arse off to be the started here, and prove all the haters wrong.

DC, I dont hate ingram at all,I think he is talented, but agree with your post... :)

He is not the fit for us. And in my opionion NOT and upgrade on Brown. And the O-line is the first line of business no matter who we draft.

Ah, the things you take for granted & miss when they're not there. Running water & a flushing toilet, AC in the summer, heat in the winter & this blog. Ingram ran fastest in his 1st 10 yds. He won't go 70 yds., but I think he can gain 7 or 8 yds. regularly. Is that worth the 15th pick? Probably not. But you better make sure you pick someone that is then.

dump the 15 pick for more picks and let someone else take ingram. With a good o-line I could be a running back in the nfl. taking a rb in first round is a big risk. Look at denver. They took Moreno with the 12th pick a few years back. Ask them how that worked out.

What a lot of hogwash!!

'Chavous was 'surprised' at Inram's time in the 40. His time is a 'redflag'. Really? What did guys think he was going to run? No one has said this guy is a burner. Nobody! Never been the claim on Ingram. What he is, is a guy who can find the holes, who has a nose for the endzone, who can block, who's a complete back, who's got a great work ethic and a great attitude and who's father played in the NFL. Not a lot not to like about this guy. Is he going to be a star in the NFL? I don't think so. But I think he's a guy who you can count on each week and a guy who can move the chains and I can think he's an upgrade on a 29 year old Ronnie Brwon who is coming off a disappointing season. Seems to me 15th in the draft is right about where Ingram should go. Is he going to be the best back to come out of this draft? I like Williams from VT myself but that's just my uneducated opinion. It might be neither of them.

To say Ingram has done harm to his draft position after the Combine is a dis-service to the young man.

I posted this the other day but maybe some missed it. It's position average value and a tool that all GMs use. Want to stress it's approximate value and doesn't take into consideration of scarcity of say, a RB in a given year.
-----------------------------------------------
Average yearly AV by position
While good quarterbacks have come almost exclusively from the first round, other positions produce value deeper in the draft.

Position 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th
QB 5.7 2.0 1.4 1.5 0.2 1.0 0.6
RB 6.2 4.4 2.8 1.8 1.2 0.7 0.5
WR 4.8 3.5 1.9 1.7 0.8 0.5 0.6
TE 5.3 3.3 2.3 1.6 1.3 1.0 0.5
OT 5.4 4.6 2.5 2.0 1.0 0.7 0.7
G 5.9 3.5 2.5 1.5 1.7 1.4 0.8
C 3.8 3.9 3.4 1.3 2.0 1.0 0.5
DE 4.8 3.0 2.2 2.5 2.1 0.7 1.1
DT 4.7 3.0 2.2 1.6 1.4 1.0 0.4
LB 6.4 3.6 2.2 2.1 1.2 1.2 0.9
DB 4.6 3.5 1.8 1.8 1.2 1.0 0.9


Running backs
This is simply a case of supply and demand. With enough supply of high-caliber running backs to last at least two rounds, it's bad business to pony up big money for a first-round prize.

The roll call of elite running backs that slipped past the first round is jarring; Maurice Jones-Drew, Matt Forte, Frank Gore, Clinton Portis, Brian Westbrook, Marion Barber, Brandon Jacobs, Ray Rice and Steve Slaton were all selected in the second round or later. Furthermore, of the 20 most valuable running backs the past two seasons according to AV, only nine were first-round picks

How come there were a bunch of other posts, and they just got deleted? Anyone else notice that (or is it just my page).

But just wanted to counter one of those "ghost" posts. From a cal...(can't remember the rest).

Anyway, you were saying don't talk about getting a RB later in the draft, and you used as an example the Brady pick at 199.

Just to point out, QB and RB are VERY DIFFERENT when it comes to draft. The best QBs last year were mostly 1st-round draft picks. The best RBs were mostly later round or UNDRAFTED guys. So history says that 1st-round RBs aren't always (and actually USUALLY) not the best RB in their draft class. That's quite different than QB, where Mando showed how there's a 60% chance of getting a franchise QB in the 1st-round.

You only draft a 1st-round RB if you think you found the next Adrian Peterson or Chris Johnson. If you think you found the next Ronnie Brown, you wait until the 2nd-3rd round to get that guy.

Boulder,

Let's look at Moreno:

2009: 947 yards rushing and 7TD, 213 yds receiving and 2TDs.

2010: In 13 GAMES: 779 yards rushing and 5TDs, 372 yds receiving and 3TDs.

I would say for a guy two years in the league, those are pretty good numbers. Anybody on our team come anywhere close to those numbers last year?

Actually, cocoajoe stole my thunder. I'm just repeating what he so eloquently (and factually) proved.

TRADE DOWN IN THE FIRST ROUND.

Draft CHRISTIAN PONDER with the 1st round pick and the best WR or RB with the 2nd and 3rd rd. picks. I like Titus Young and Kendall Hunter.

Christian Ponder will end up being the best QB from this year's draft class - guaranteed.

Cocoajoe and DC,

I'm fine with what you guys are saying but what is it exactly you want to do with the runningback position? I'm all for spouting stats and looking at history but let's talk SPECIFICS. We have ZERO backs under contract for next year and you don't want us taking a first round running back. Wo you would like to see who excatly on the team next year running the ball. Specifics please....

Brandon, I'm going to hold you to that. I'm going to come hunt you down, if you're wrong though....

Does anybody else like Greg McElroy in this draft? I think he could be a serviceable quarterback along the lines of a Gus Frerotte. Smart quarterback, who knows who is and doesn't try to force it. Thoughts?

Nothing is proved by stats, every player is different and how they play on any given team is different. Way too many factors are involved. People said Parcells never drafted a LT in the first round. Meant nothing. Situations and circumstances dictate everything. He just never needed one that bad and in this case he felt it was the best option.

Stats are for pie charts. Lets hypothetically say 90% of the best RB"s were taken in the 3rd round, that doesn't mean you don't take one sooner if you have a major need. Folks wanting Ronnie Brown are saying lets be average again and hope he stays healthy. When a team goes into the draft with no starting RB on the roster, not one, you throw the stats away and pick according to needs, whatever they may be, you pick the best player that matches one of your biggest needs.

Some of you talk as though stats will dictate the future when the fact is they only sum up history.

I think this would be a waste of a 1st pick. Even the best RB in the league (Adrian peterson) can't make a bad team good. This guy doesn't seem like he's an AP, I'd much rather spend the 1st pick on a QB or if not then an OT, then if not then a Julio Jones if available. These are premium positions - RB is not.

I can't put any of these items in the Blue Box. The Blue Box is reserved for only the most special items.

These items are not special, so I shall place them in the Yellow Box. The Yellow Box is handy for this purpose.

I am Chinese.

IMO,

The most likely trade down scenario may be with one of 3 NFL teams that have two 2nd rd picks. Right now I dont even see late 1st rd teams clamoring to move up to #15 because that 100% homerun player isnt there.

Plus, trading back beyond 27th is just a "glorified" 2nd rd pick anyway. Therefore negotiating with one of the 3 teams with two 2nd rd picks is great value for the #15 pick is great value. It still give great chance of adding two day one starters to the offense.

Remember too, if needed, we can possiblt trade up to top 5 of the 2nd rd with at least one of those picks. Both if were extremly lucky and could also wrangle having both in top 10 of the 2nd rd at least.

Mark, I seriously doubt Julio Jones will be still around at 15, highly unlikely.

Or Leonard Hankerson and DeMarco Murray in the 2nd and 3rd.

Or Leonard Hankerson and DeMarco Murray in the 2nd and 3rd. PONDER is a must though.

Some here think Im a strong Ingram bandwagoner. Im very much stronger a gain a 2nd rd pick advocate.

I only see Ingram as the best value at #15 possibly satisfying an urgent need. It's still far too high to draft anyone but Ingram. Unless a miracle happened and his Bama teamate Julio Jones feell. But thats even more farfetched now with Joneses blistering combine 40yd'er.

Why do you say that?? I don't agree at all.

I'm all for not taking Ingram at 15 and trading down. But if unable to do that I'm not sure how you can pass him up at 15, even if you don't think he's the best back. He's the safest of the running backs out there and I can say that even if you don't like him because he's the consensus number one pick in the draft. Show me a mock who has another running back ahead of him. He may not be the right pick but he's the safest pick. Ireland and company are on thin ice. They can't afford to be rolling the dice and getting this one wrong.

Hey DB,

Gotta believe Ireland wants to trade down so badly he may go for a bad deal, like a 2 and a 3, or a 2 this year and a 2 next year. In this years draft, 15 just doesn't seem like it will command much value or attention.

Neither of us know what will happen, but my betting money will be on the likelihood no worthwhile trade down scenario will present itself. At 15, I see Ingram as the same type of 'safe' pick that Jake Long was in 2008.

Listen to DB on this one guys, he's making a lot of sense. The thing the guys that don't want Ingram are neglecting is we don't have a single running back signed for next season. To ignore that is irresponsible and SHOULD get these guys fired.

3rd rd is far too high for Demarco Murray. The scouting report on him is he runs very soft between the tackles and hugely struggles in pass protection.

Some here dont realize but "pass protection" from the rb position is astronomically huge with most teams. If you cant pass protect some coaches wont put that rb on the field at all.

Because Murray does have great edge speed some teams would still try and use that edge speed for about 5-8 run plays per game. But a 3rd rd pick for a 5-8 play agame rb is a huge imbalance in production vs value.

Unless that guy hits at least 8-10 long td runs per season. That's very difficult, nearly all out impossible when you play only 5-8 plays per game.

Somebody is going to get a steal with Jefferson LaFontaine later in the draft. Raw, but speed like that is very rare.

0x80,

No way do I think we'll trade #15 for a 2nd and a 3rd. That completely nullifies try to get a 2nd rd'er.

What kind of sense does it makes to now not have a 1st rd'er that you entirely give up your 1st rd'er to get thier. It's better to only have a 1st and 3rd rd'er only than to entirely give up your 1st rd'er to have a 2nd rd'er, only adding an extra 3rd rd'er.

And please dont make me have to explain that huge tongue twister again! LOL...........

I remember Shanahan up in Denver having a great O-line. Albeit they were smaller quick guys and some accused them of being dirty, but they got the job done.

Shanahan could plug in just about anybody back then and have a solid run game.

I don't know if Ingram will be another Emmit Smith or not. I do know Smith ran behind one of the best O-lines of all time. He had more yards before initial contact than any RB EVER. This record setting stat was all because of the line he ran behind.

Considering the current situation with our O-line, taking a chance on Ingram at 15 is putting the cart before the horse.


Who cares about late rd steals right now. We need to place ourselves into the best possible positions to grab the closest things to sure fire day 1 starters that we can.

Why do so many on here not understand this. You watched the same 2010 season as the rest of us.

If we can end up with a late rd gem, fantastic. But you cant bet your team's future fotunes on it. We have too approach this draft like we're not going to land late rd gems. If not we'll be making huge reaches and have huge misses.

DB, say that again please? That's why I am having a hard time believing we will have an opportunity to trade down.

Last year we got a late 1 and a 2 for a very valuable 12 position. This years 15 seems more like last years 23...I'm having a hard time seeing someone giving up two two's for this years 15. If it happens, well then Ireland is earning his pay.

MAKE THE BEST PIZZA SAUCE WITH TOMATO BASILE PEPPER YOU PUT IN LADEL AND THEN USE THE BOTTOM OF IT TO SPREAD ON THE DOGH THEN INTO FIRE OVEN YOU CANT DO THIS AT HOME SO DONT BOPTHER.

I AM WORKING AGAIN FOR ALL THE NO WORK LOOSERS THAT SIT ON THERE CHAIORS ALL DAY PAYING YOURE TAXES

Odineye,

Sure Shanahan had some nice olineman and they played the zone blocking schemes well.

They also had a great qb(Elway) a top 5 TE(Sharpe) and a top 5 speed wr(Rod Smith) also Ed McCafferty. Passing threats like these goes a long ways to helping your run game too.

After Elway left(Brian Griese) and so did some of those great recievers. The running attack slowly declined and Shanahan was eventually fired.

Deep threat wr's and a great seam threat TE greatly enhances your ability to run the ball. Defenses cant consistently commit 7-8 in the run box, forcing nfl DC's to play you honestly.

logico, the chart shows history of last 10 years and approximate value by round by position.

It's really pretty simple: More good RBs, less good QBs. Get it?

Baked spaghetti and Texas toast tonight!

Stick that in your oven and eat it Pizza Maker!

PS: I don't know if Heineken goes with baked spaghetti, but it's HAPPENING!!!!

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