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Did Ingram kill himself by running slow? No Did it help? No

The Dolphins are in the market for a running back in the NFL draft.

The Dolphins are also in the market for speed on offense and the NFL draft is expected to deliver that as well.

So it stands to reason if general manager Jeff Ireland can find a running back who is fast, he can meet two needs for the price of one pick. That's the reason Alabama running back Mark Ingram was such a popular guess as the Dolphins first round pick (15th overall) according to many draft gurus with opinions. The marriage just seemed to fit.

And then Ingram ran the 40-yard dash as the NFL Combine on Sunday. And his time was a pedestrian 4.62 in one clocking, which raised some red flags and eyebrows because, well, it's never great news when a smallish back cannot run away from bigger defenders.

So is Ingram, the 2009 Heisman Tropy winner from Alabama, thus eliminated from Miami's list of possible draft day targets?

Former NFL defensive back Corey Chavous, a draft guru in his own right and founder of nfldraftnasty.com, doesn't think so. In fact, Chavous now thinks Ingram has joined some very good company.

"A lot of running backs that are the greatest of all time that haven't had the greatest of 40 times," Chavous said today on my radio show, Armando and the Amigo. "Emmitt Smith ran high 4.5s and low 4.6s. Walter Payton was also 4.5 type guy. And that's kind of what [Ingram] has got to be compared to now if you're saying he's going to be an elite running back. You look at some of the better running backs that have played with that same build and stature that haven't had great 40-yard dash times."

You can listen to the complete Armando and the Amigo interview yourself on the podcast right here. Chavous also discusses the quarterback that most impressed him during the combine.

One thing that Chavous did point out is that Ingram was not supposed to run slow. It was indeed a surprise -- obviously not a pleasant one.

"I was surprised because Ingram ran 10.7 in the 100 meters in high school so him running a 4.6 surprised me," Chavous said. "It seems he got into a stride too early and didn't stay in his explosion phase long enough."

That suggests Ingram can rehabilitate that time when he has a pro day at Alabama or a personal workout for various teams -- including the Dolphins. But even then, the 40-time is not a tolling bell of doom.

I do repeat, it is a red flag. Remember that Ingram spent parts of the 2010 season battling injury concerns. So teams will want to know if the 40 time is an outgrowth of lingering injury issues.

But will it erase him from Miami's radar? Probably not.

My take? I personally believe the Dolphins are in trade down mode already. I believe they want to add a second round pick and the only real way to accomplish that is trade out of No. 15 to lower in the first round and add a low second rounder to boot.

But you obviously need a partner to participate in that scenario. Barring that scenario presenting itself, the Dolphins will obviously still consider Ingram -- although it is hardly a certainty they will take him.

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bill_c - can't see anyone giving a late round 1st and a 2nd for our 15. Can't see it.

Ingram has burst. Don't know why everyone thinks he is so bad. IF we have to pick at 15, with no starting RB on the roster, would be irresponsible not taking Ingram. There are no guarantees we get one of the better backs in round 3. Those who want to resign Ronnie Brown are content with hoping and mediocrity. Does anyone serioiusly think Ronnie at 30 yo is going to be better than his disappointing last several years?

I say keep our 15th pick and trade a player for a second rounder...We almost never pick/use our first round pick every year and where are our playmakers???? Oh yeah..they are on other teams...

This just in...WR Julio Jones will require surgery on his broken foot--which means he will be the first pick of the Fins.You see the Fins have an established history of "rescueing"injured football players who might otherwise go undrafted.Remember Yatil Green,Jason Allen,Jared Odrick,etc...?God I hope I'm wrong!

Nobody answers me on the idea of acquiring another first, or my suspicions about Ingram's time in the 40. Hmm.. You afraid, People?

Of what?

Cowkilla,

Why would Ireland sign a guy like Shockey?

We got the big Fasano and Mickey Shuler. We should be good at TE for years to come.

Mickey Shuler? 7th rounder? Project player. Mediocre at everything, just what this FO loves, mediocre and cheap!

Gabbert?

Newton?

HA!!!!

We got Henne and Thiggy Baby!!!!

Nate Solder?

WHY?

Carey and Murtha all day-everyday!!!!

Cowkilla,

Arent you forgetting something extremely important? Without a cba in place totally forget about trading a player for a 2nd rd'er.

There's just under a snowball's chance in hell a new cba will be reached before the draft.

PS: Don't forget Pat McQuistan!

Yeah buddy, he should be vastly improved this season!

Ah Ha Ha!!!!

I think we should draft the entire McQuistan family(I wonder if his daddy has experience at holding a clip board).

YeeeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaawwwwwww!!!!

I believe the time for Pro Football to become more transparent is here. People just have a lot more information nowadays and cannot be duped as easily. There is nothing worst in live Sports than People losing confidence in their integrity. Look at Horse racing and the job they have done to preserve the People's trust. You Football Principals should do the same. No more player dealings behind closed doors among Teams in the same or other Division. No more paying unscrupulous players to alter their statistics. And many other delings that you could be found out on. Come cleaner, for the benefit of all.

oscar...too naive my friend...trust??? Forget it. Why just today a senior executive on the board of directors at Goldman Sachs (aka Government Sachs) was busted for insider trading. Big business is corrupt at every angle. No large organization got that way without nefarious actions. The NFL is big business. Ugly business.

0x80, if you read the last sentence of my Post, I said cleaner. Now, who is being naive.

the best scenerio is if julio jones falls to us. I bet we can get a late first and late second from someone.

Im not high on Ingram at all....at college he has been playing with small bodies against him...he is much more physically mature than his opponents...this will not be the case in the NFL
1 HE is SLOW....not a plodder but not quick
2 He will have weight problems as he already has.
3 He plays crash bang style which is great against small bodies...he will get worn down badly and have a short career I feel
4 the best RB's nowadyas are fast elusive types with excellent conditioning...not Ingram

I love the idea of TEXAS Toast...whats that?...sounds awesome...and spaghetti yum...DB..sounds GREAT..!!!!!!

Why would you give a sh-t, 0x80, about some crooked executive at some Bank in Wall Street? Do you have holdings, are you a trader? If you do, I understand you. My motivation for the comments I made about Pro Football are legitimate, for I love the Game and would not like to see It hurt.

I reckon id draft PONDER in the 2nd after trading down along with a GREAT Olineman at 2nd if we get that extra 2nd....then a RB...then special teams...

In FA you have to try VY or Flynn...I dont think Orton will be available

Lots of deadwood to jettison too...McQuistan amongst them....heaps of junk...Murtha is crap as is CROWDER....we really need lots of roster churn once again...do you beleive it??????

Sick of drafting injury prone athletes as well...I know PONDER is a gamble...but it looks like he has healed...but ODRICK was our 1st pick and we got ONE game outta him...Edds...????....Von Miller would be a luxury pick but gee he can play

oscar...if you don't understand the ramifications of the senior executives of the largest banking institutions comitting fraud, giving inside information to private hedge funds at the expense of shareholders and the entire general public, all in the name if illegal profits...then you are very naive indeed. This effects the entire stockmarket..which crashed a whopping 1.6% today on the news. When doubt is created in the credibility and honesty of the stock exchanges, the ramifications spread wide, even to those non share holders...it affects interest rates, loans, right down to the price you pay for food. Yes I am a trader, but it affects as all. The news is great for telling you who Lady Gaga may have been seen with, oh but they hide the ramifications very well of ownthe most serious crimes. If you understood the tactics companies like Microsoft, Intel, IBM and the rest have used to gain dominance....you'd see how ugly big business is, very ugly.,,and that includes your beloved NFL owners.

Ponder with a 2nd rd'er? This guy wasnt overly impressive at FSU.

I have no clue why not overly impressive guys get boosted up around draft time.

THAT'S EXACTLY HOW WE ENDED UP WITH RONNIE BROWN 5TH OVERALL!

0x80..great post @9:44

The only way the Dolphins will ever see Von Miller is tackling our rb's or sacking our qb's.

BELIEVE THAT!

I have enjoyed handicapping horseraces since the age of 17 and have been able to follow the effect of Parimutual wagering upon them. Nothing better. That Board is even for all, from Las Vegas to the last poor broken devil. How does this apply to Pro Football? They should try to be more Fair, as they are being watched, like that infield Board.

Ponder, at some point maybe able to start for a west coast type of offense. He definitely has great foot speed for it.

I really dont see Ponder becoming an upper-echelon classic pocket passer.

Good, 0x80, you worry about Wall Street and I will worry about Football. How about that?

Darryl...thanks...I was on the phone and typing at the same time so that explains some left over words or typos trying to edit and converse at the same time. I could have gone on for anther 1000 words but thought it best not to get too worked up, especially off topic on a football blog!

oscar...well that is fine with me...but you really should be worried about Wall Street too. One day you will realize this....but we can stick to football on the blog here.

Finally can hop on when many of the regs are on...

Sup fellas!

I have learned, 0x80, not to worry about things that I cannot control. By the way, do you think that all these events in North Africa might be depressing the market?(seems off topic but is not).

I have heard good things about R. Mallet and some not very good things and finally I'm nowhere about him. I hate uncertainty!

Hey Rob...saw your reply about 30 hours ago...regarding that list of Heismann RB's...
it was mostly just info, some were saying heismann means jack...well, I would agree just because you win the heismann doesn't mean you will be a HOF'r, but I did want to show how many were truly great, nothing more... we differ in point a view a bit, but its all good...you make a lot of great points here.

Catching up time...

Craig M @ 5:34- You said "Ingram is a safe pick like Jake Long." HUH???

I say no way in heck. Jake long was a touted #1 pick and in every conversation. He had the PRE REQ size, weight, height etc. Ingram's "intangibles" include has his "world class vision" even though he purposely runs into defenders all the time and his pedestrian, yeah pedestrian speed. So a 5'9 1/8" 212lbs RB that tries to run over people is not scary? This as the guy is coming back from injury already in 2010. He is no lock at a position you are suppose to run fast at.

The so called concensus is he does a lot of things well and thus he went to the top of the RB list. He trained his butt off and dropped a bunch of weight to produce a 4.62? What would the 40 have looked like at his old weight... him running with a piano on his back?

LOL, I kid, I kid but still. With as HURTIN for CERTAIN as we have been with a TOTAL LACK of playmakers in Miami how in the world can we take a slower "safe" pick?

Trying to hit a single in babseball is a safe hit... do you think TS and Ireland need to hit a single to save their jobs?

I know you have said trade down and also you like Ryan Williams (who I like a TON as well) so I do pay attention and am not just trying to single out this one post of yours out of context.

Any thoughts Craig my fellow blogging friend?

Cheers,

ingram is a garbage pick. shouldnt even be picked in the first rd. we all know miami will trade down, lets hope they get something good

I cannot remember the last time a running back made a difference for a team in a pass heavy and QB driven league. Just last year we recovered our 1st round draft pick from the Chargers who figured they needed Ryan Mathews to get over the hump. Does anyone remember an ESPN highlight of this guy? Also, let's remember how well R&R played for Pennington. I still think inspired QB play elevates everyone!!! I'm not sold on R&R but let's not get distracted from the real issue....QB QB QB!!!!

0X80,

SINCE I KNOW YOU R THE SMARTEST FAN ON THIS BLOG ,LET ME ASK YOU , WHAT'S UP WITH EVERY CABLE CHANNL NOW ,EVERY TIME I TRURN CNN OE FOX OF CNBC ,I NOTICE A BRITISH ANCHOR TALKING LIKE THE US RAN OUT OF ANCHORS ? EVEN LARRY KING REPLACEMENT IS BRITISH ?????

BILL / ROB IN OC , WHAT MAKES YOU KNOW MORE THAN ALL OF US ?

BRITISH ANCHORS AND CHINESE CHEAP BED FRAMES .

Arrgh!

Sorry Craig M...

The quote "safe pick like Jake Long" was actually part of my response to 0X80 at 5:36 as he had made the Jake Long reference.

Basically you guys were echoing the same things so I basically pose the same type of post in answer to your post @ 5:36 0X80.

I view both of you guys as sound, savy, regular, sain and good posters. It is always nice to hear/see you defend your positions as best you can as I try to as well.

We ALL realize, like being on a trial jury, everyone is seeing the identical same thing. What is big to one person is sluoughed off by the next viewer. The thing that fascinates me is how much one man's treasure is another man's trash. So it is in auctions, garage sales and apparently draft picks too. Haha.

So my friend Mr. 0X80...Same questions as I laid them out to Craig M in my prior post...what say ye bro?

Cheers,

0x80 @ 10:24 Thanks for the answer bud!

I think guys getting worked up that the FO hasn't signed Shockey yet should chill. Shockey is not going to be the diiference between success and failure this year fellows so relax. Did you ever think that maybe the FO is weighing who might be available and not showing their hand too early. For example, who wouldn;t want Zach Miller over Shockey and there is a chance Miller will be an UFA when the CBA finally is agreed to. If he's not and he ends up being RESTRICTED, the Raiders are going to find themselves is salaray cap Hell and will be glad to move this guy. Who wouldn't taken him for a second next year for example. So chill guys....it's early days!!

we have to take steps away from being the worst franchise in the nfl. firing the staff and gm after the 2012 season will be a huge step. sucks not having a season this year cause it delays getting rid of these clowns

Hey Aloco...its called outsourcing and insourcing foreigners. While we had the largest unemploment rate in a 100 years, the government was still issueing work visas for foreigners to come in. The big corporations hired lawyers to instruct them how NOT to hire an American. Advertise the position in non widely read publications, and look for an excuse to negate any Americans qualifications. Then bring in a foreigner on the work visa for much less pay. I know this for fact. I worked for years in the software industry until I never ever heard English spoken with out an accent. I was often the only native American white boy programmer. My last few contracts were at Microsoft. Its about 85% Chinese and Indians. I don't fault them, they are merely going for a good opportunity. But the work visa is being seriously abused. It is their for when no local talent is available, but it is being abused to replace local talent with cheaper foreign talent. They come in on fixed contracts, much lower salaries, and can not change jobs, they are bound to the company that brought them in. Well now it has hit the broadcasters too I guess.

Last but not least, I am definitely not the smartest fan on the blog because I wholeheartedly believe all humans are incredibly stupid.

SHOCKEY CAN GO PLAY HIS GAME ON OTHER TEAM ,NOT THE FINS .JEFF IRELAND IS BECOMING A SMART GM .NOT FALLING FOR THESE OLD PLAYERS ANTICS .

JASON TAYLOR ,DID HE GET THE BOOT FROM REX ?

DB @ 5:38

You say "what good is a 3rd round pick that averages 5-8 rushes a game?"

Well I ask you the same question about your Ingram for RG at #15 overall. How many touches do you think TS lets him have?

You do realize that Ronnie Brown at 6' 230+lbs averaged 12.5 rushes per game for all of 2010? He also Started Every game...all 16.

How many carries per game is the play count conscious TS gonna give the fire pluggy 5'9 212lbs RB in Ingram?

Cheers bud,

taylor retired, signing one day contract with fins

0X80,

WE KNOE INDIA PRODUCES TJE MOST MATH AND SIENCE STUDENTS ,MORE THAN THE US BUT STILL OOUR STUDENT HAVE MORE CONFIDENCE IN THEMSELVES THAN THE CHINESE AND THE INDIANS ,THANKS TO APPLE PRODUCTS .DO YOU SEE IN 10 YEARS MSFT AND HPQ OUT OF THIS COUNTRY .

Rob in OC,

Nice to be able to converse when we're both on.

Yeah, I did say I thought Ingram would be the 'safe' pick for these guys. I'm not going as far as 0x80 and comparing it to Jake Long but I can't see these guys going out on a limb and doing something 'Pat White-like'. Just doesn't make sense. It's guaranteed to get them fired!

Rob, we both like Williams and that's where I'd go. I think you can get him in the 5-15 range in the second round. That's where I'd be trying to trade back to. I have confidence that Ireland wil make this happen (I know I'm in the minority). It may not be as simple as what we did last year but I think he'll be able to pull something off. What they have very likely deducted by now is that we have a blatant need for a quality running back on our roster and that there will still be good ones available in the second and third rounds. Now get one!

TC,

the real issue......QB QB QB!!!!

What would you do? You got a plan?

Jerry Jones wants out of the 9th spot. We could give him our 1st, 3rd and maybe a player like McQuistan, move up to 9th and grab Newton.

OK, fine, excuse the sarcasm. No to Newton!!!!

Seriously though, if you got a good plan for our QB situation, I'd like to hear it.

first and third, are u insane. stop giving away picks

WE KNOW INDIA PRODUCES THE MOST

Craig M @ 10:41

Agreed!


As fiery as Shockey is he is also injury prone, never been tops in the league, is entering into that last phase of his career, had the convulsions/seizures last year, parties hard and thus should be considered but has a lot of red flags.

Wise men say "only fools rush in".

If they don't get Shockey that wouldn't bother me either. We agree on this one...good times!

Cheers,

Rob... in a nutshell..random thoughts

- the 2010 rushing leader Foster ran something like a 4.73 at the combine

- Ingrams time (I think) was revised to 4.58

- I was a fast runner as a kid. Only one guy in the hood was faster than me, but only at times..sometimes he won, sometimes I did...so on any given day, you could be off slightly. Lets see what ingram does at the pro workouts.

- Ingrams 10 yard split time, (10 yard burst) was the fastest of anyones, something like 1.53, so assuming after 10 yards you are in the open field running full stride, you are that much harder to tackle, and going to get a few more yards.

- if cbs isn't resolved, there will be no trade down. We do not have a starting calibur RB on the roster. If we can't trade down, there is no guarantee one of the few best RB's will be available in the 3rd round. Do you want to risk leaving the draft without an RB ready to start day one? Ronnie Brown at 30 wasn't the answer at 28, so he won't be the answer now. So IF you have to pick at 15, who do you take? The one back all pundits agree is the top in the draft is Ingram... Watch is 9 min highlight film on youtube, he looks better to my eyeballs than the highlight films of all the others.

Off the top of my head those are the immediate points, probably have another one or two lingering.

ODINESEY,


WITHOUT YOU THE BLOG SUCKS ,WITHOUT YOU WE ARE LOST GROUP OF PEOPLE .

YOU REPRESENT THE COMMON MAN .

0x80,

FYI...Ingram's timed 40 was an UNofficial hand timed 5.8 that got OFFICIALLY changed to a 4.62.

Cheers,

u x80, foster wasnt even drafted. taking a rb in the first round is retarded.

Bill,

There's going to be a season this year, just you watch. If you're saying there's not then that GUARANTEES there will be!!....LOL.

Please tell me the Dolphins are going to be awful this year and miss the playoffs badly because in my mond that gives us our best chance.

ROB,

MARK IS A SMART PLAYER,HE'S NOT GOING TO INJURE HIMSELF IN THAT CRAP CALLED ,COMBINE .

just like i told u last year craig. at some point u will listen. and no most likely there wont be a season. they arent even close on any of the topics.

craig u can act like your a better fan cause u always come in here with ra ra everything is great for us. but in reality this franchise is garbage in its current state and just cause i speak the truth doesnt mean im not a fan. u ripped me last year in september when i told u this team wasnt good and would finish 7-9. so its nothing new to me to hear your bs again

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