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Did Ingram kill himself by running slow? No Did it help? No

The Dolphins are in the market for a running back in the NFL draft.

The Dolphins are also in the market for speed on offense and the NFL draft is expected to deliver that as well.

So it stands to reason if general manager Jeff Ireland can find a running back who is fast, he can meet two needs for the price of one pick. That's the reason Alabama running back Mark Ingram was such a popular guess as the Dolphins first round pick (15th overall) according to many draft gurus with opinions. The marriage just seemed to fit.

And then Ingram ran the 40-yard dash as the NFL Combine on Sunday. And his time was a pedestrian 4.62 in one clocking, which raised some red flags and eyebrows because, well, it's never great news when a smallish back cannot run away from bigger defenders.

So is Ingram, the 2009 Heisman Tropy winner from Alabama, thus eliminated from Miami's list of possible draft day targets?

Former NFL defensive back Corey Chavous, a draft guru in his own right and founder of nfldraftnasty.com, doesn't think so. In fact, Chavous now thinks Ingram has joined some very good company.

"A lot of running backs that are the greatest of all time that haven't had the greatest of 40 times," Chavous said today on my radio show, Armando and the Amigo. "Emmitt Smith ran high 4.5s and low 4.6s. Walter Payton was also 4.5 type guy. And that's kind of what [Ingram] has got to be compared to now if you're saying he's going to be an elite running back. You look at some of the better running backs that have played with that same build and stature that haven't had great 40-yard dash times."

You can listen to the complete Armando and the Amigo interview yourself on the podcast right here. Chavous also discusses the quarterback that most impressed him during the combine.

One thing that Chavous did point out is that Ingram was not supposed to run slow. It was indeed a surprise -- obviously not a pleasant one.

"I was surprised because Ingram ran 10.7 in the 100 meters in high school so him running a 4.6 surprised me," Chavous said. "It seems he got into a stride too early and didn't stay in his explosion phase long enough."

That suggests Ingram can rehabilitate that time when he has a pro day at Alabama or a personal workout for various teams -- including the Dolphins. But even then, the 40-time is not a tolling bell of doom.

I do repeat, it is a red flag. Remember that Ingram spent parts of the 2010 season battling injury concerns. So teams will want to know if the 40 time is an outgrowth of lingering injury issues.

But will it erase him from Miami's radar? Probably not.

My take? I personally believe the Dolphins are in trade down mode already. I believe they want to add a second round pick and the only real way to accomplish that is trade out of No. 15 to lower in the first round and add a low second rounder to boot.

But you obviously need a partner to participate in that scenario. Barring that scenario presenting itself, the Dolphins will obviously still consider Ingram -- although it is hardly a certainty they will take him.

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DB (@ 12:48 AM)


Great.....We're relying on the ego OF A WEISEL !!!!
.
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odinseye,

I'm saying take a chance and know your business. I actually doubt Ireland can pull this off, but other organizations do. I'm not talking about the impossible...just recognize what needs to happen and do it. I would commend a 1st round effort for QB, even if it was Newton. What do we have to lose at this point? 3rd place in the division? All the BS picks in the last 10 years have gotten us where?...Hooray! our left tackle is in the Pro Bowl every year. Big Woop.

Rob (@ 12:37 AM)

They should TRADE DOWN for 2 Second Round Picks.
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0x80,

Actually Walsh got grief for Jerry Rice as he was thought too slow and such a small school.

That worked out in his favor I would say.

I credit Jerry Rice with having as much desire and will to win as any NFL player I have ever seen. Guy was a stud.

Walter Payton was the player i wanted to play like the most in the NFL growing up.

I do believe that slower players have a tougher go of it in today's DEF track star days.

Unlike in the fable I think the hares win more races than the Tommy Tortugas.

I completely understand the arguement that I am crazy and that ALL these experts can't be wrong type thinking on Ingram.

This question is for DB too...If Ingram gets past us at 15 and running back needy New England at 17, then would it be fair to say that the media "experts" and masses were bigger on him than the real NFL scouts and teams?

Cheers,

I would still argue the Shockey(non)signing.

The only GOOD season Fasano had was when we had the guy(forgot his name)that could get down the seam. That year Fasano looked ALMOST outstanding in the two TE set.

We went into last season paper thin at TE. We probably will again.

Even if Ireland actually plans on drafting a TE, I'd still sign Shockey. I'd try to get him on only a 1 or two year deal and I definitely wouldn't throw the bank at him.

If you have a GIGANTIC GLARING NEED and you're ALREADY short a 2nd rounder, why not sign a proven vet?

Sure he's a party animal and has injury concerns, but who cares, he shows up on Sundays and makes plays. Just his presence ALONE will help create mismatches for Marshall and Bess.

You double Marshall(and they always do), Bess or Shockey will draw a LB in coverage. They put in the extra Defensive Back and we pound it between the tackles.

I know, I know, Ireland won't sign him until he finds out if Shockey's Momma drinks Rum out of coconuts shells and does lap dances at Cowers and Oprah's parties!

Rob-OC,

Only Ingram's pro career will tell who was truly right or wrong on him. Jerry Jones had to force Jimmy Johnson to take Emmitt Smith. Johnson didnt like him as his 1st rd pick.

0x80,

I could definitely see Ireland passing over Walter Payton and Jerry Rice. I dont truly see him taking Ingram either. But I wouldnt be shock to see his demented ego select a Division III superstar just for the sake of appeasing his huge ego! LOL..........

If Ireland were Miami Heat gm he woudl have passed over Dwayne Wade too. Wade's mother was a drug addict and heroin w*hore.

No way would Ireland have taken Wade.

Everyone here knows we need more explosive players on offense. But very few realize thats "fast" doesnt always equate to explosive. Just as what some consider as slow doesnt mean the player isnt explosive.

Ingram isnt a speed demon fast player but he is an explosive player.

DB @ 1:19... very, very well said.

If it was take the fastest player it would be called trackball and there would not be such an inexact nature to it.

It all kinda ties into that heart reference that they always say... as soon as the combine can measure a players heart... none of us will be debating much at all.

Cheers,

I don't know where Mando got his times, but another Miami Herald reporter indicated Ingram ran a 4.58......Emmitt Smith's pace, I know Emmitt Smith, I also know that the Dolphins picked Sammie Smith in that draft. I also went to 2 superbowls, when Jimmy Johnson took Dallas there, Mark Ingram is the next Emmitt Smith. If he is available and the Dolphins pass him up, then switch your loyalties to another team. I might consider it as

TC,

I'm with you on that. I believe you should draft a QB EVERY SINGLE DRAFT, regardless of what's going on with your current starter.

Holmgren always did it in Green Bay. I believe Shula Drafted Secules and Mitchell while Marino was the starter.

The Bears gave up the farm for Cutler and then spent 6th on LeFevor out of Central Michigan.

I was just "razzin" you with a little sarcasm earlier out of frustration. I agree with your last post ALMOST wholeheartedly. I say ALMOST because I'm a complete non-believer in Newton. I could just be jaded because of the Pat White pick, but I think Newton will be a complete bust. Not even a slash type.

A guy that can consistenly give you 5-6ypc between the tackles is still an explosive player. Simply because a rb like that can help you consistently have 3rd and shorts or very manageble situations.

A guy consistently ripping off 50-60-70yd td runs is just a pipe dream. Nobody "CONSISTENTLY" does that on the nfl level.

I know some of you may think Im crazy. But even during Emmitts college years. What I noticed most about him wasnt how well he ran, but how well he fell to the ground.

What I mean by this is Emmitt could pick up 2 extra yards just by the way he fell. I saw so many Emmitt runs where he was stopped for 3yds but fell for 2 more yds.

Emmitt was the best that ever did it in turning 3yd stops into 5yd gains. That was the true trickiness of Emmitt Smith. Everyone else only noticed his big pickups. But Emmitt was the greatest short yardage rb in nfl history in falling for extra yardage after he was stopped.

Smith was the best faller for extra yardage in nfl history. The guy had falling for extra yardage down to science and very few ever noticed it.

Well done with the homestyle dentist trip..Killed a few brain cells good times. If this post makes no sense I have already offered my excuse.

I see the biggest need on the offensive line as center. If Incognito fills this void that is fine. There are a few free agents that come to my sizzled brain. Olin Kruetz, and Lyle Sendelin off the bat. I don't know if there is any early round value at this spot. Probably late second, to the whole of the third may be when the centers start coming off the board.

The reason I say center is that there was no coincidence our pass protections started to really suffer once we started shuffling centers. You can't under estimate the importance of how important the center sees the protection in concert with the other lineman, and quarterback. Incognito did admirably for being thrown into the fire. But I wonder if part of the reason Henne couldn't get into the correct protections was because he was on a different page then Incognito?

DyingBreed, that's what I have been saying

Am I getting it correctly?

As it stands now, the latest ruling means the owners won't be getting paid if the season doesn't happen?

This whole deal pisses me off to no end. Especially how it's affecting free agency, the draft and most specifically the Dolphins off season strategy!

Their are hungry kids all over America because Mom and Dad can't find jobs. But these A-hole Billionaires and Spoiled Millionaires are fighting over how best to divy up the riches!

(Did that make any sense?), oh well, I hope the greedy hippocrits are ashamed of themselves. They should be.

Yes Odin, you got it right!!! Greedy players AND owners!!!

D R Y W A S U ?
A R L H T P

Jerry Rice for example, never had great speed. What he has was great burst or explosion. He just always seemed to easily separate from supposed "much faster" db's.

So guys dont confuse having great speed with great burst or explosion.

Its' like a guy being world's fastest human in the 100meters but many guys can out run him in a 50 meter race because it takes 65 meters for him to hit full stride.

Last I checked the 1st down markers are only 10yds apart not 40yds apart. That's whats so awesome about Ingram's 10yd shuttle time. It shows great burst where he needs it most on the nfl level.

Between the 1st down markers!

If we can find a guy that can average 5-6 yards per carry who cares if he runs a 7 second 40 time. That sort of average will help win a lot of games. How many backs averaged over 5 yards a carry last year?(with more then 50 carries)

Odin...LOFL @ 1:44

dArRyLL?

DaRryLl iS tHaT U?

dArRyLL!

HeLLo-hElLO

Is there anybody in there?

DARRYL!!!!

Enough of the combine numbers bullcrap!!
The guy produced in his college career!!!!!!

Look at the tape!

He is a player.
Get him!!

You guys ever watch Usane Bolt. World's fastest human. But its usually the last 25yds or less that he begins to pull away from the rest of the field.

If he raced the same competition at 50 meters he would win far less because some of those guys have better explosion at the start.

DB,

It's funny you say that about Jimmy Johnson and the Emmitt pick. I always knew the story was not that Jerry Jones forced Jimmy to pick Emmitt Smith but that Jimmy was trying like heck to trade up and take LB James Frances that went 12th to Cincy.

Since they couldn't pull it off they took RB Emmitt Smith as a settle for pick @ 17. It worked out fairly well and made him/them look like brilliant draft wizard(s). I found articles pretty easily online.

I didn't think Jerry was as meddling back then as he was after JJ piloted a few SBs.

Either way, it makes for good backdrop storyline...

Cheers,

What they should start doing is have the skill players run the 40 with a football tucked away underneath thier arms.

Then we may get a better guage of what his football speed may be. Especially rb's.

Rob-OC,

Still Jimmy Johson wasnt 100% keen on taking what turned out to be the greatest rb in nfl history. At least the record books say he's so.

Dying...At that point. Why wouldn't they put pads on as well?

Jimmy Johnson was far away from saying,"Ijust got to have that guy Emmitt Smith".

DD,

Why stop there, give him a helmet and put a few defenders in his way too! LOL.............

redsky @ 1:25

4.58 was the UNOFFICIAL hand time... it is the official time is 4.62

It's easy enough to confirm.

Prepare to change your loyalties as I don't think the Fins are going with Emmitt Jr, er Ingram.

It sounds pretty harsh to change loyalties because they don't draft a guy you as a fan wants but, like Bobby Brown said...it's your perogative. Or something like that...lol)

Honestly, please don't change loyalties... the seats in Fins stadium are empty and show the orange too much as it is...if they are local for you and you can go to games.

Cheers,

They should also get 2 official 40 times. One on turf and the other on track. It needs to be as realistic as possible to better measure the "realistic" talent.

As I said earlier, with Ireland in charge we probably end up with a bunch of Joe the Plumbers anyway. It'll be miracle if any of us have named even one player Ireland actually chooses.

Isnt thats how its worked the last 3 seasons?

DB,

The NFLN simulcam where they show all the players running the 40 superimposed on each other really shows a lot of what you are talking about.

That is exactly the reason i wanted a race between Usain Bolt and CJ2K for 40 yards. I wanted to see if Usain could match CJs short speed.

Alas, it never went off.

Cheers,

I have a bad feeling Cam Newton will now be there at #15 and Ireland will bite. I dont think Ireland has any bigotry about a guys dad selling his son like a pro*stitute.

DB @ 2:00,

What record books say Jimmy Johnson was not "keen" on taking Emmitt?

I know he wanted to take LB James Frances of Baylor but couldn't get a deal made.

I have never seen or heard any article about Jimmy not liking Emmitt and Jerry Jones forcing his hand? Can you find any evidence and give me a link please? I would really like to read up on it please.

Thanks,

I would like to see Drew Carey urinate on the 'Price Is Right' stage tomorrow.

DD and DB,

Maybe they could spread broken glass out over the track and make them do the 40 with no shoes Bruce Willis Diehard style?

You know, to show great DESIRE!

LOL, Cheers

DB @ 2:15... LOL, selling his Son as a Streetwalker... Thanks for the belly laugh

Cheers,

If we don't trade down an Ingram is the BPA, FINE, pull the trigger.

I'll be a bigger Ingram fan than I WAS A Henne fan. The second he puts on a Dolphin uniform I'll tell you all he's DEFINITELY the second coming.

The problem I have is that if we draft Ingram at 15, the QB we draft(if we draft one)will probably not offer any competetion to Henne this year and possibly never. By the time we're able to draft a QB(3rd round or later)the guy will most likely be a MAJOR project.

I realize there's no guarantee that we can even trade down and land Locker or Kapernick, but at least one of these two would at least have more upside than a 3rd, 4th or 5th rounder.

Considering Ingrams split and shuttle time, his 40 time doesn't over concern me.

AS USUAL I'm more concerned with all the holes these bozo's haven't filled yet and that missing second rounder.

Whether we trade down or get Ingram, I still want at least one starting offensive lineman, a speed receiver, a RB like maybe Hunter and TE Jordan Cameron.

We might not be able to afford Ingram simply because of what Irelands ego has already cost us!

Dying Breed..I can remember last draft...And the Dolphins select. Drum roll..........Jared Odrick. Jared Odrick? WTF? There wasn't one person that even named him as a possibilty. Let alone was psyched. Sure folks supported the pick, and found ways to justify it as "The Best pick of the first round" And why not? At that point he was a Phin. Support your guys right? Who knows what the future holds for Odrick. And trading down to get Misi could still yield fruit. But we were sittin' at 12 with some fine players available. And we decided to get cute.

I don't know why but I keep getting a QB Jake Locker premonition for the Fins if they can't wriggle from under the 15th spot.

I am on the Kaepernick bandwagon but just the way he communicates, he tested pretty well, had a good combine... I can see Ireland saying "hey this guy would have been #1 overall last year."

I still hope they can land VY if possible. Makes sense as he is exciting for Boss Ross and he would provide vet comp for Henne.

I REALLY like that Henne is a try hard guy with hitting the playbooks and leading unscheduled practices etc. I think he has drive and hope he can make strides on his turnovers and reads.

He needs to remember that 80's song "Henno needs to forgoto Mr. Roboto...domo, domo" Hehe

Cheers,


Single page view By Skip Bayless
Page 2


That April Sunday in 1990 had been declared Earth Day. But when the Dallas Cowboys' first-round pick was announced, I immediately renamed it What On Earth Day.

Emmitt Smith?

The little running back from Florida whose 40-yard dash times (4.6s and 4.7s) were better suited for fullback? Cowboys coach Jimmy Johnson needed another slow running back like Texas Stadium needed a hole in its roof during a thunderstorm. That's why Johnson had just made a trade with San Francisco for Terrence Flagler, a former first-round pick who could fly.

Plenty of people had their doubts about Emmitt Smith coming out of Florida.What on Earth, Jimmy?

As a Dallas columnist, I had been run ragged trying to keep up with Tony Dorsett, on and off the field. No Cowboy could say and do the wrong thing as quickly as Dorsett could. Nor could any running back in NFL history accelerate faster. Talk about a blaze of glory. And now the Cowboys were going to replace TD with Too Slow?

Earth to Jimmy.

Several Cowboy scouts had told me Johnson was dead-set on drafting a defensive difference-maker -- North Carolina State defensive end Ray Agnew or Baylor linebacker James Francis. As the draft unfolded, Johnson, indeed, tried and failed to trade up from No. 21 to get Agnew, who went 10th to New England, and Francis, who went 12th to Cincinnati.

From 10 through 16, seven straight defensive players were snatched. So with Pittsburgh on the clock at 17, Johnson realized it was time to take the offensive. That's when personnel director John Wooten reminded Johnson that 1.) the Steelers had agreed before the draft to trade places with Dallas for a third-round pick; and 2.) Emmitt Smith was still on the board.

About half the Cowboy scouts and coaches were against drafting Smith. Not only was he too slow, but he was too small (about 5-foot-9 and 205 pounds) and too soft to pound out the tough yards between the tackles. To top it off, he had an unbreakable habit of carrying the ball under one arm instead of shifting it away from an oncoming tackler.

But Wooten remembers the eldest scout, Walt Yowarsky, "all but standing up on the table and saying, 'This kid broke every high-school rushing record in Florida. He can catch, he can block, and I've yet to see him get caught from behind. All he does is make yards. You have to take him.'"

Johnson had experienced this first-hand, while coaching the University of Miami against Florida. Johnson told Wooten: "Do it."

Wooten called Tom Donahoe, then Pittsburgh's general manager, now Buffalo's. Wooten says: "Pittsburgh wanted [tight end] Eric Green, who was going to be there at 21. So we gave him a three [third-rounder] to switch places and move up to 17. No sooner had we made the deal than Ken Herock called from Atlanta and offered us a two to move up from 20 to 17, which was a very attractive offer. But I said, 'Kenny, who you gonna take?' He finally said, 'Emmitt Smith.' I said, 'No thanks.'"

At 20, Atlanta wound up taking a running back from Washington State, the spectacularly forgettable Steve Broussard.

And because Jimmy Johnson couldn't wheel and deal for a defensive demon, he got stuck with a little guy who managed to play for 15 seasons and set NFL records for yards gained (18,355), carries (4,409) and rushing touchdowns (164). Emmitt also helped put two Super Bowl rings on Jimmy's fingers, and a third on Barry Switzer's.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=bayless/050211

Rob-OC,

There you have it. Johnson got "stuck" with Emmitt Smith.

Now what were you saying earlier about easy to find articles? LOL..........................

I got one right last year. I posted it too.

I wanted to use a 4th rounder on Reshad Jones.

It just goes to show, even a broken clock is right twice a day(what a dumb a s s cliche).

PS: Redsky be careful switching allegiances. I vowed to never again be a Dolphins fan when Mercury Morriss was traded to the San Diego Chargers.

Thank God I had this thing called loyalty!!!!

Damn Emmitt was running 40's in the 4.6-4.7 range! LOL...........................

Rob-OC,

What do you have to say now that Ive proven Jimmy Johnson was talked into taking Emmitt Smith? Is there anything else that I can correct you on sir? LOL.....................

if u ask me we need to draft mark ingram.. the dude is not a bad runningback.. and then go get a speed back in free agency.. but dnt let pass us at 15..

Hey DB,

Thanks for that article! That was a great read. I didn't see anything in there about Jerry Jones forcing the hand or Jimmy not wanting Emmitt.

That is the best article I have seen about that draft day Emmitt Smith storyline.

Kudos to you fine sir!!!

Cheers,

DB,

Take it easy. Do it with dignity-LOL!

You Da Man, nice work!

(freaking used car salesman. They're all alike).

Rob in OC...What up!!!

Do you think Kaep will end up moving into the second round? I could see Carolina grabbing him if they pass on a quarterback in round 1. I guess he is the flavor of the week down there to. If Soiled Bottom was around he could set the record straight. As far as Locker. I don't know much about him. I do know he ran well, and is innacurate. Is there something about him I should know?

Odin..I remember that(Jones Pick). I for the record was 0 for the draft last year. Not one of the guys I was POSITIVE we would pick did. In fact. I'm not sure any of them got drafted at all, by anyone!!!

Rob-OC,

It was many years ago so I may have forgotten specifics. But Emmitt wasnt an original Jimmy Johnson idea. Emmitt may have never been a cowboy had John Wooten not been the personel director.

Ingram's only poised to go two slots higher and from what that article says many including most of the Cowboy staff thought he was too slow and too small also! LOL................

Ah ah ah.... Lets be completely fair DB

Your original post was :


Rob-OC,

Only Ingram's pro career will tell who was truly right or wrong on him. Jerry Jones had to force Jimmy Johnson to take Emmitt Smith. Johnson didnt like him as his 1st rd pick.

0x80,

I could definitely see Ireland passing over Walter Payton and Jerry Rice. I dont truly see him taking Ingram either. But I wouldnt be shock to see his demented ego select a Division III superstar just for the sake of appeasing his huge ego! LOL..........

Posted by: DyingBreed | March 02, 2011 at 01:11 AM

I was saying I had NEVER seen ANY article about how Jerry Jones "forced" Jimmy to take Emmitt and how Jimmy Johnson didn't like Emmitt.

That whole article never said either one of those statements... what are you right about again? LOL

Good show-upsmanship though!

Thanks for the leg work on the article though bud.

Cheers,

Rob-OC no problem! LOL..................

But read that article again and then tell me that doesnt pretty much sound like the Mark Ingram analysis now. They are pretty much the exact same size too.

I remember when Emmitt played for Pensacola Escambia High too. Boy am I getting old! LOL.........

DB,

No worries man...It's all good in busting chops land.

I do see the errie similarity in traveling the draft plank that is selecting anyone.

Emmitts speed knock and size will have many screaming Emmitt clone.

Good luck to you and all the Ingram coveters.

My eyes / research is simply convinced that we can make due with a bunch of other RBs in a lot of different scenarios where we get a RB later in the draft and use the early draft to go after the QB of choice or a guy that may have better impact.

Cheers,

Just like the Cowboys personel director said about Smith, "I never seen anyone catch him from behind". The same can be said of Ingram in college too. LOL...............

While everyone's still searching for the next BO Jackson. The Emmitt Smith's and Mark Ingrams will continue to fly under the radar! LOL................

I know a while back there was some Carson Palmer talk. The more I think about it. If we could get Palmer in a trade(It would have to be players, or future picks because we can't trade players for picks this year)He could be the right stop gap until we can develop someone with competant QB skills.

I don't know what would be a fair trade for the Bengals. But say they think the Palmer situation is unreconsilable.They realize this and draft a quarterback. Would they except Henne as piece in a trade puzzle? Of course Henne for Palmer straight across the board will never happen. But what if Henne was a pawn, and we offered up a guy like Bess? Before you say I'm crazy, Bess is one of the best slot recievers in the league. I'm just trying to make this fair, and something that would be reasonable(this is if you think Palmer would be the answer. If not, read no further)

Slot recievers aren't to hard to find. I love Bess. But he isn't irreplaceable. All of the rookie guys need work, and probably wouldn't play this year anyway. Palmer isn't perfect, and it could be trading away quality players for more of the same. But we have to do something. And if the FO thought for a second that Palmer is an upgrade. Why not pull the trigger.

Rob-OC,

I dont care if we could get Tony Dorsett and Dan Marino all over again in this draft. Until we get deep wr speed and a seam threat TE. The run game will still be limited with 7-8 defenders in the box.

It amazes me how few fans realizes this!

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