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Dolphins work out Arizona's Ricky Elmore

While the pundits and so-called experts are trusting the Dolphins will use most, if not all, their draft picks on offense, I've been telling you the team desperately wants to improve special teams and its pass-rush.

There was some proof of that Monday when the club worked out Arizona OLB Ricky Elmore.

Linebackers coach Bill Sheridan flew out to be with Elmore for the private meeting. The two watched film together and went through the usual position drills.

Elmore led the PAC-10 in sacks for the second consecutive year in 2010. He did this while improving his 2009 total of 10.5 sacks to 11 sacks in 2010. That, by the way, is no easy task because once a player leads the conference in sacks, other teams take note and typically do what they must to contain that player.

Elmore, 6-4 and 260 pounds, nonethless finished ranked ninth in the nation in sacks.

So why the interest?

Elmore isn't a first-day pick. He more likely will go anywhere from the late third round to fifth round. He's a no-frills, high-motor guy that knows the game and want to learn more.

He's not a track star. He ran a 4.91 in the 40 at the Indianapolis Combine but I'm told that was because he was sick. (He ran anyway so you have to admire that). At his Pro Day on Saturday he improved all his measurables to 4.79 in the 40 with a 34.5 vertical.

Do the Dolphins have room for a guy like Elmore on the roster?

When one considers that Quentin Moses has had four years to develop, last year got several significant opportunities to play, and still produced only one sack, the answer would have to be yes.

When you consider the team was eager enough to improve its pass-rush that it put in a waiver claim for Shawne Merriman, the answer would have to be yes.

And don't even get me started on the need to bring in some fresh blood on special teams to immediately upgrade a unit that gave up a total of three punt and kickoff return TDs last year. The answer, again, is yes.

Maybe Elmore can fill all of those needs.

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I am not believing that there is much of a huge liklihood but...

If the Fins do happen to go DEF in the first round as the OFF guys are not graded out as high or maybe they feel there is a real difference maker at 15.

I would say the DEF player I like at that spot is DE Cameron Jordan. His father played in the league as a TE for Minn, so he does have the bloodline angle. He moves like an overgrown LB at 6'4 1/8" and 287 lbs. For reference his 4.78 40 time was only .02 behind Safety Ahmad Black's 4.76 40 time. The thing is Safety Black is 184 lbs. Some think he may be able to play a role such as Misi's where he rushes and also has some sideline coverage responsibilty. A player like him would have many different uses at DE/DT and even dropping into coverage for confusion. Move fluidly for a guy his size.

I would keep Wake, Langford, McDaniels and Starks. Merling is the player I would trade.

Some folks like Kerrigan better or Aldon Smith. Kerrigan has great college numbers and is a great hustle player. He may be sort of maxed out with his frame. Can't fault a huge hustle/motor guy though. He is a run through walls for the coach type of player.

Aldon Smith has a thin base to me. He could turn out to be a spider like pass rusher in the J.T mold. I do see some Aaron Maybin in him though with his similar thin lower frame. He has pass rush ability and those players never last. May be gone prior to 15th.

Alternate choices possibly sliding back further into the 1st 20-28 would be:

NT/DT Phil Taylor from Baylor offers great movement skills from a guy that weighs 335 lbs and has some small area quickness. He tied for 4rth best bench at the combine with 31 reps. He anchors really well and will push the pocket.

DE Adrian Clayborn from Iowa. I really like the way he stays aware of where the ball is and maintains his outside leverage. Plays through the OFF player well, has nice disengagement and will find the ballcarrier. 6'2 1/2" 281 lbs and ran a 4.83 40. 51 game warrior that brings a vast array of moves with him. He intelligent and has a superior understanding of his game responsibilities.


Howdy DB,

Doesn't the term "Overdrafting" mean that you could get whatever player your choosing later in the draft? I would think that if you take a player that is rated within 5-7 slots away from where you take him from 15 on it would not qualify as too much of an "overdraft".

As for the "pidgeon hole" thing I am not understanding? That would imply that we can't make any other choices as we were "Pidgeon Holed" into drafting Ingram? You mean RB is our only need? Our #1 need by far so that is what makes choosing Ingram the right thing to do?

It would seem to me there is usually one player that falls some that may help us out with the "pidgeon hole" Ingram pick.

My theory in setting forth the parameters of the generalized prediction is to figure out if the REAL Scouts / GMs for the teams confirm or deny Ingrams predraft position.

Sooooooo many pundits, mocks, "pros", "experts" etc have Ingram going to us at 15. If that happens it confirms the team was thinking the same way. If Ingram falls past NE who could use a RB as well it would start to suprise is all.

What are your opinions?


DyingBreed @ 02:36 AM,

You said the "passing league" stuff kills you.

Actually there are numbers that back it up the pass being more and more important in todays game.

Besides the fact that we had a SB record low carries by both teams. GB we kind of see that but mighty Pitt has been a staunch run based team in the past.

There is simply no arguing that the pass interference rules favor the offensive player. That along with illegal contact past 5 yards down field and its very hands off in the secondary.

The league wants points as they think the fans support that game more and they are probably right. The 6-9 game gets labeled lame by many fans but purists.

In the March 07 issue of ESPN the mag, on page 96 there is a nice graphic with the stats. The article is trying to bust a bunch of myths in sports in general. The title of #3 is Winning NFL teams establish the run.

Teams that were below average in both passing and rushing won 38% of their games.

Teams that were above average in in rushing but below average in passing won 46% of their games.

Teams that were above average in passing and below average in rushing won 58% of their games.

The teams that were above average in both passing and rushing won 67% of their games.

I am not a guy to point at one stat and say aha! but those are a couple of things I presented that favor the pass.

The teams ran the most in the 1st quarter when the games were fresh were the 2-14 Panthers and the 8-8 Jaguars.

I am actually surprised you cling to the "It's not a passing league" ideology as it seems dated.

Anyone NFL coach or intelligent fan will tell you that a strong rushing game helps secure wins, grind away clock, control game tempo, exploit a weak run DEF etc. no question.

I simply believe that the passing game is more of key to winning in todays NFL than you do and there's no harm in that.

It is why I feel we have to keep drafting talent at the QB spot until we get a guy that gets us into the top 1/3 or higher of all QBs.

Having Henne at years 4-5 seems to totally toss away the early success of Ben Roth, Sam Bradford, Matty Ice, Josh Freeman and to a lesser degree due to injury Mathew Stafford.

That is not just 1 or 2 guys that's 6 QBs all thrown in ealry that have had great early returns. Detroit, Rams and T.B had similar talent to Miami when they started.

I am not going after your beliefs as much as just trying to have you explain what I think are solid facts.



I know you have that big village to pillage tomorrow so you already logged off.

Just saying a hearty hail to the Norse brudda.


If we pick Ingram at 15 I will que up a great quip from the killer movie 300...

"Tonight, we dine, in HELL!" lol

Rob you too funny


Good job, this is the type of thread I like during this time period...as it is nearing the final draft run...and they may goof around and not have football for a long while.

Ricky Elmore, eh...

Hmmmm, all such a chess match in the smokescreen vs real McCoy time.



Hey pay wassup bud!

You doing alright these days man?

Any Dolphins chat stuff you wanted to cover?


Elmore would be a guy like Edds who you could land in the 4th rd that produced huge in college. His 6'5 frame n 11.5 sacks is undoubtedly why they are looking into him. Talk about chips on shoulders. I like the look though just not in an early rd.

Hey beerphin,

Wassup bro!

This regime can leave no stone unturned. If we can pressure the opposing QB better and give Wake more help than he got in 2010 then I would be fine with it.

There sure are some appealing OFF weapon types that should or could go in the sweet spot of rounds 3-4 in this draft.

Possibly RBs Taiwan Jones (3), Hunter (3), Alex Green (3-4), Noel Devine (4), Dion Lewis (5-6) or WRs Jerrel Jernigan (2-3), Randall Cobb (3-4), Niles Paul (4)

Not to mention maybe a QB like Kaepernick "Maybe sliding" to the 3rd but I think he goes in the 2nd. If Mallet can't stave off rumors his off the field issues could have him in the 3rd. I think his arm will infatuate a team to possibly take him at the end of round 1.

So if they pick up yet "another LB" I sure hope he is the real deal as the opportunity cost will allow some nifty OFF prospects to fall by the wayside.





Any draft details regarding Tank Carder (TCU)?

the market future down 240 points.lol

Some SF writers think that Alien life(if it exists) will be more technological than biological. Makes sense. So, the easiest way to contact Alien life(if it is out there) is trough our Virtual Space(Internet)(yes the Distances are immense and therefore very expensive). Internet is not here for nothing. Right? Sorry, People, but at this particular moment I can't comment about Football.

japan stock market suffered a crash of 11 percent as a result of fire in one of the nuclar plant .

DB/Rob in OC,

Morning guys. Don't you guys ever sleep!!....LOL. ROb, I know you've got an excuse being on the West Coast but DB, are you involved in the labour talks or something?...

Just picking up on some of your earlier conversations. Rob, I'll bite on your comments about Ingram. I agree that if New England passes on Ingram at 17 (assuming he's still there), you are correct that maybe this guy wasn't as safe as some of us said. I don't think that's going to happen though. I think the Dolphins will try to find someone to trade up and take this guy or they will take him at 15 if they can't move. Failing that (assuming he's still there at 17), I think the Pats will find someone to trade up and take this guy (I'm thinking someone like the Saints). That doesn't mean the Pats wouldn't have liked this guy, it just means they saw better value in trading back and getting something they felt was better for their 17th pick. And really, who could blame them. While running back is a need for them, they likely feel they can get someone of value later and lets face it, they burned picking Maroney in the first round before.

I commented on this last night and I'd like to hear what others have to say on this. I've seen a lot of mocks now where A J Green is falling out of the top ten picks. That's really interesting to me because I think this guy could be the next Megatron. Now I'm not suggesting we trade up and get this guy because frankly I still don't think we've got the resourcs do it. But I could totally see a team like St. Louis trading up to draft this guy. He'd be dynamite with Bradford and I think they'd pay the price. Where it becomes interesting, IMO, if Green did drop, what would that mean to our chances of Julio Jones being there are 15 and before you discount that idea, realize that teams aren't picking WR's as high as they used to and Jones does have a bit of a foot problem right now. What do we do if he's there at 15? Now the easy answer is pick him but what if one of the teams behind us really want him and we could get something for him. wouldn't it make sense to do that, pick up an extra pick or two and ultimately have a better draft. I'm ready for your critiques.....

Not sure how I feel about the NFLPA telling Draft participants to boycott. On the one hand, yeah, I understand they want solidarity with the players. On the other, this is a once in a lifetime event. Something these guys have been working towards for years. It's almost asking too much to give it up (since we ALL know this will get resolved at some point). Plus these draftees already know they're not getting paid until an agreement is done. So why take this small memento from them too?

I say go to the Draft, enjoy your time, and when you're there you can talk about the Players interests in these CBA negotiations, that's how you straddle the fence here.


What's up brother?

I think it's a RIDICULOUS stance from the NFLPA! These guys aren't part of any union yet and they are simply stealing their spotlight. It's a once in a lifetime opportunity for these guys and the NFLPA wants to ruin their day...it's a SHAM!! They will look very small and selfish if thhey do this and it won't play well with the media or fans. REALLY bad idea!! There's also talk that established players will picket the even outside as well. REALLY bad PR move all around.

Rob in OC,

I read one of your earlier posts that said you would trade Merling. What would you get for this guy? I figure at this point nothing better than a 4th round pick. Based on what he's done so far and last year, I don't think he has much trade value. I'd prefer to keep him and hope he comes in with a chip on his shoulder, fighting for a new contract. I still think he could be a decent player. If we were going to trade anyone on he line, for me it would be Starks. I realize he's the most established guy but I think you could get a second and a fourth for him and to me that would be good value. This is a good year for DL and I would be tempted to try and replace him in the second or third. I think you could have a good line with Merling, Langford, Soliai, Odrick, McDaniels and the rookie. That's what I would do.

DC....if there's one thing I know you know about....its staddling the fence...

I know we have nothing better to do this time of year but speculate and toss around scenario`s but I don`t see how any team is going to give us a 2nd and 4th rounder for Starks. He is in the final year of his contract so I don`t see how any team gives up there 2nd for a player they may concievably loose after 1 season. Merling aside from being the slaker that he is also had a sports hernia in College to go with his achilles heel from last season dropping already weak trade value.

I don`t think we trade any of our assests unless the offer is to good to pass up. I keep reading in some places how K.C. is enamored with M.Ingram but only willing to part with a 3rd. rounder to move up and draft him. In a draft class like this one were the value may very well be in the middle rounds (Rob at 4:15 puts up nice chart on these players) stocking up on picks in or around there may not be such a bad thing

We see every season players drop further than expected. If A.J. Green or J.Jones, falls to 15, I'd say we have to forget the trade down and take one of them, personally I like Jones better. That being said, it is unreastic, just not impossible. I don't see any of the few high round QB's falling to 15 with so many teams neading a QB, and who knows that might help one of those receivers fall.

Regarding a late round RB if we don't take Ingram, I like this Hunter guy the best, seems to have the best speed and spark amongst the other late round backs, he's seems more like a 'live wire' than those others. Regarding Taiwon Jones, I've debated him before here...two things to consider...he really has had a lot of injuries...seems frail, and also, he is really almost a mirror image of Kory Sheets already on our team. I can't see that we need two of them. Some of the less than eager Ingram fans love to mention he is coming off an injury....well somebody has to defend the guy and of course that will be me. His injury was merely arthroscopic surgery, missed two games. I will iterate once again, his 10 yard burst speed was the FASTEST of any RB in the combine, including faster than Da'Rel Scott, who ran a 4.34 40. He isn't a home run hitter, but the guy most likely to get to the first down marker most often. Using a baseball analogy, singles are kind of like 1st downs. Notice how the guy who can get the most singles is typically the lead off batter, the guy you want to 'touch' the ball the most.

Dying Breed I see echoes my sentiments, IF WE HAVE TO PICK TO AT 15, Ingram is 'most likely' going to be the most talented player at a position of need still there. I'll be stoked if we can get J. Jones, I just like to deal with reality before wandering off into dream land.

Good mornin folks, (well 8:14 so still morn here)

How thanks for some good chat posts!


On your WRs AC Green or Julio Jones being available at 15. I always say that anything is possible. I am sure, some teams find out "dirt" on different players and don't tell other teams in hopes that they take the player and go backwards.

That said, I don't see the either of the WRs getting to us. Santana Moss is fading with the Skins and the Rams will stock up with bullets for the their new Bradford QB gun. I believe both will be gone prior to 15 and if either slides for any reason at all I think teams will leap frog the Fins to get them if need be.

Julio Jones foot injury is more of a badge of honor than a curse for him from what I can glean. It seems that after he posted such amazing physical stats at the combine, only to find out he was doing it all on a bad wheel will endear him as a tough guy to some team prior to the 15th pick imho.

IF one were to fall to the 15th pick I would say that would be a very tough decision by the Fins staff. I believe they would trade back even if they liked either player for a few reasons.

One is injury. If you are still filling holes and getting better as the Fins are it would probably be better from an injury standpoint to have 2 players drafted than just the one unless they were absolutely sold on the player being a mega star.

Two, they have a #1 wideout in Brandon Marshall that they shelled out crazy money for. The need for a heavy duty WR in the first round goes down.

Three, the draft seems to be shaping up to that 2-4 round area where the meat and potatoes are. Having extra picks in that range is a bonus. (Freakin Belly-Czech and his cursed Jedi drafting)

For these reasons I believe it would be better to have more draft picks in those rounds than a #1 and then a gap until the 3rd.


Why do we even want another 2nd, when we just waste the picks every year? Seems like Ireland can't hit on those 2nd round picks. Pat White = WTF! Even Merling wasn't worth the 32 pick in the draft. We could have had Deshawn Jackson instead we have a player that has started 4 games in 3 years.

@ 0x80,

I see what your saying about Ingram`s 10 yard burst, Marshall Faulk was raving about it on NFL Network over the weekened but if we go that route it will tell me that Ireland has learned nothing and simply doesn`t get it. Our team may be more stout and efficient at moving the chains with Ingram but mark my words it will be more of the same in the red zone when due to poor run blocking, mediocre play at T.E. and W.R.,coverages shifting Marshall`s way ect... we will be forced to keep trying for F.G.`s

If we are "pigeon holed" at 15 as some like to say then I would take the best Off. Tackle left on the board unless a J.Jones falls to me, wait till rounds 3 and 4 to take best available R.B. and W.R. when our pick comes up. It really then is a matter of waiting for the CBA to get resolved to try and address the position we couldn`t really get to in the draft.

I would rather address W.R. given how unbelievably deep this coming FA R.B. class is, a T.E. would also be nice, remember you yourself have posted many times that given labor striff, diminished pick in draft, nobody should be looking for a cure all this year, it`s just not realistic but you could begin to map out a blueprint.


Seems to me the 'Skins traded a second (and I think a sixth) for Jason Taylor, who was in the last year of his contract. Keep in mind, Taylor was a lot older than Starks too. I don't think a second and a fourth is unreasonable for a guy who went to tke Pro Bowl last year (albeit as a fill in).

I wasn't saying AJ Green WILL drop out of the top 10, I'm just syaing some of the mocks I've seen have him dropping out of the top 10. the teams he has to get past, IMO, are the Bengals and Browns. Both teams have a dire need for WR, assuming Ocho and TO aren't back in Cinci. What will be interested is to see if the Bengals are so enamored on Newton that they can't pass on him. He seems like a Bengals pick to me....a bust/reward kind of pick.

To me if Green falls out of the top 10, a team like the Rams will trade up and take him. If Jones is still there, I think we try and find a trade partner. Great talent but I'm not sure how we pass up a running back, with no second round pick and I know all the calls on here who are clamouring for a QB. So to me it would be a dream secenario because I think Jones presents some trade options for us.

Rob in OC, I can't see any way that the 'Skins pass on Newton or Gabbert if they are still there at 10. They've pretty much rode McNabb out of town and they need a QB.

Eric....thanks for saying it....

The fans of the Dolphins have been fed ACORNS so long that they now DEMAND them.....

No Mr. Ireland....don't get us a sure-fire starter at #15....PLEASE trade back and get us 2 possibles....

This isn't SPADES people....Its NFL football

Grab yo nuts....and pick a starter for the next 5-8 years at pick 15!!!!!!!

No wonder were mired in mediocrity.....many of you demand it.....

@ Rob,

Top of the mornin to ya brahh !

The R.B.`s available in the middle to later rounds of this draft are well documented aside from Jernigan who are some of the speedy wide out we can look for in the 3rd. round and beyond.


Interesting thoughts. I don't quite see things the way you but I can respect your thinking on what we should do. I just think Ireland leaves himself open to a lot of criticism if the team can't run the ball next season. To me if you can't run the ball, you struggle to throw the ball. I think the fact that Indy and New England struggled to run the ball this year ultimately caught up with them. I think the fact that New Orleans struggled to run the ball last year really hurt them against Seattle when they couldn't keep a very hot Matt Haselbeck off the field. I blame a lot of Brees INT's last year on the fact that defences knew he was going to pass. Betcha they address that early in the draft this year.

Last point fin4life, I read your comments that the Chiefs would be interested in trading up for Ingram. I don't see how that makes sense with the fact they have Thomas Jones and Charles running the ball. I consider their running game to be one of their strengths, hence the reason that Cassell was so effective last year.

fin4, I don't see it quite the same way, our perspectives differ here. I blame much of the redzone problems on Henne, throwing flutter balls, batted down passes, throwing the lob to Hartline when Brandon is open in the corner.

While I agree our oline definitely needs help, I don't think its as bad as others do. I believe deficiencies in our passing offense made running so much harder. Ronnie just didn't have any burst last year. I believe a back like Ingram will find some space more often to exploit and I really don't see him forcing us into FG mode. I see him making the D honor the run more and opening things up for the passing game in general, not just in the red zone. We've pretty much agreed to disagree on this point...and we'll never really know unless he is on our team, which I'd say is at best a slim chance. Nothng wrong with keeping the debate alive for now though.


Couldn't disagree with you more, re: your post at 11:54 am. Belichik is the 'King of the tradedowns'. How's that been working for him? Why do you think he has so many picks this year? Partly because he trades down and gets picks for the following season. Yes, I know he traded Seymour for a first and Moss for a third but his mantle has been to trade down and get additional picks. It's not a dumb strategy for Ireland to be doing this. We traded TWO seconds for Marshall and that has hurt our ability to have full drafts the last two years. I think he did very well to add Odrick and Misi last year and I think Misi did as well as anyone we might have picked at 12, the exception being Bryant in Dallas. All the guys we were looking at: Ryan Matthews, Brandon Graham, Derrick Morgan, Sergio Kindle, the LBer who went to Indy, all had disappointing seasons. I can't knock Ireland for what he did last year. Guys are just knocking him because Odrick got hurt. Let's see how Odrick does before we write off last year.

@ Craig M,

While Starks is a good player he doesn`t have the same recognition. In Taylor we were trading a player that was coming of a Def. Player of the year award winner of the previous season, a player that had recorded the most sacks in a ten year span prior, the closest running 2nd Aaron Kampman was a full 28 sacks behind him and while he may have lost a step was still a nightmare coming of the edge recording multiple sacks in and out every season, Starks in his break out 09 campaign recorded all of 7 sacks while being some what inconsistant. I am not knocking his importance to the team but there is no way yu compare how teams value these two especially with a primium on Pass rushers.

Trade down
1.Gabe Carimmi/Nate Solder
2.Christian Ponder
3.Noel Devine
4.Edmund Gates
Brandon Jacobs to mix with Devine
Sign either Sidney Rice, Snatonio Holmes.
See that , easy. hahahahaaa


Nice post 11:07.

I know a ton has been made out of the 10 yard split and I do think that the 10 yard split should factor in.

There are more than a few people I have seen post on here that said they have not ever heard of the 10 yard split time as this year it seems to be it's coming out party. While I know it has always been around it has never been drummed like this year. Mainly it has been used to talk about DE's, DT's and LB's getting off the ball quickly.

I thought Marshall Faulk himself said it best when he stated "The RB lines up 7 yards deep in the back field". It was as if burst was everything and long speed meant nothing is how I perceived Marshalls agitation with everyone gushing over a 4.62 40 Running Back in Ingram.

You can dismiss Ingram's surgery as just some light "othoscopic" procedure but why would he only have approx HALF of the total yards he had from the previous season despite only playing 3 less total games?... Half the yards? Sounds like he had more of an issue besides some small bump in the road from a numbers perspective. Please explain this anomoly if you can.

Also, you have said many times that Kory Sheets is the "Same" guy as Taiwan Jones I would beg to differ.

Kory Sheets was "Undrafted" in 2009. That means that every team that year didn't think enough of his skills to even take a late round stab. I will bet you dollars to doughnuts that Taiwan Jones gets drafted this year and not in the 7th round. That will indicate that teams are NOT agreeing with your assessment of Taiwan being all injury prone and frail as you suggest.

Also, Kory Sheets had a 5.1 career average at Purdue. Ingram had a 5.7 (even with his magnificent 10 yard burst)... Taiwan Jones was 7.7!!!! That is 2 yards a carry every single time he touched the ball through his whole college career. I already know the counter is his smaller school competition and you would be correct.

But, I would say with Julio Jones outside at WR and the "other backs" that Alabama also rotated behind that Championship challenging, Saban recruited OL that Taiwan Jones was more keyed on than Ingram. The team didn't have other killer studs to turn to to scare people so the opposition knew Taiwan was getting the ball and could focus more on stopping him.

He averaged 7.7 pards per carry anyways.

That is why I don't believe you can simply say, we already have "that guy" on the roster in Kory Sheets.


If no trade down, just get Julio Jones
Dont draft Ingram ,so many options in free agency and later in draft !!!

Craig M....the last sentence of your post works both ways....Lets see how Ordick does before we start singing his praises....in my book Ordick is a non-factor...and will be till he at least plays 2/3rds of a season.....so lets not mention him till Thanksgiving......

Belichecks roster is more set than ours...you can't even compare the two....yes we beat them (usually) once a year...but thats like our SB....plus their a division rival....compare the teams season for season and yoy will see there really ias no comparison.....When your offense has a MVP playing QB....it hides so many other postions....when 30 points is a reality more often than not.....you can trade back....

When 13 points makes you shoot your load for this team.....then you sorely lack talent....

BTW....The Raven's hold the NFL's longest playoff streak...and their formula is simple....BEST PLAYA AVAILABLE.....PERIOD.

Also Sergio Kindle didn't play last year (cracked skull) Non-factor


Sorry man, with disagree on this issue. Starks was perhaps our best player on defence two years ago. He's a better player against the run that Jason Taylor EVER was. Of course, there's no comparison in terms of pass rushing. Taylor is one of the greatest of all time. But the Dolphins knew what they were doing when they traded Taylor. He wasn't the player he used to be and no one was that surprised when he flopped in Washington. Starks was our defensive MVP two years ago and has versatility. I would think a second and a fourth is a fair price for this guy (if I'm not mistaken he's been to the last TWO Pro Bowls). Not saying teams would give us that, just saying I think that's fair value for him.


I wasn't comparing the rosters. I was simply saying this is how Belichik has done things and it's worked well for him. What he hasn't done is give up a second for AJ Feely, a third for Lammar Gordon, a second for Daunte Culpepper and TWO seconds for Brandon Marshall. He hasn't missed as ofetn as we have on high picks like John Beck, John Avery, Yatil Green, Pat White, Patrick Turner, Jamaar Fletcher and others....

Totall different success stories. But one thing that has worked for him is the trade back. It's a copy cat league. I have no problem with Ireland doing that again this year.

Aloco @ 7:19, Hey thanks bud...glad you liked em man!

Zany crunch time with all this draft talk up until the real scouts/GMs pull the trigger on their strategies.


We'll have to disagree on that Craig....but I do agree about the misses...and not all of them Ireland's....

My point is simple....

a first rd pick...for first rd talent....

Anything less is unacceptable in my book....

You guys can have stockholm's syndrome all you want...but i refused to be brain washed....

1st round pick are meant to be used on 1st rd pick....

In regards to trading 1st round picks with K.C. it`s just something I read which a usually reliable Mike Silver posted over at Yahoo sports. The thinking being that they have to eventually look for T.Jones replacement and like the idea of pairing Ingram with Charles, which by the way wow !!

Were it relates to staying at 15 because of unwilling trade partners then I really got to go with the best OL available. I never focused more on the O-Line like I did in the 2nd half of last season and when it wasn`t Incognito turtle racing around trying to pull or Carey getting killed by speed rushers it was Berger and Jerry getting pushed into the back field. At times I thought watching them that I had been time warped into watching the lines that played with Marino. I hadn`t seen that many people in our back field to snuff out the run since those poorous lines of the late 80`s all thru the 90`s

If we tag a Tackle with attitude that can run block we can shift Carey back to his RG spot, his more natural spot, the one he actually played in Collee before need had Cocker moving him to RT his Sr. Year. Then you can put Incognito and his brute strngth at C. while allowing Jerry to bounce back and fight somebody for a spot if anything it should make for a more aggressive group. We then wait for rounds 3 to 4 to see what our options are at R.B. and W.R. and take BA, wait out the CBA and address what we couldn`t in the draft through FA aquire a stop gap or maybe even a blue chipper, even Ireland is due a little luck there.


Just to clarify, are you down on what Ireland did last year? Our first for Odrick and Misi? Putting aside the fact that Odrick got hurt, if you could do it all over again would you have done it?

By the way I say pick an OL because I don`t see two talents like Green and Jones dropping to 15 but if they did it`s a no brainer

Rob, another day another sparring match...I'll tackle your points in order one at a time with my always humble opinion:

Is it relevent when any of us learned about this 10 yard split time or how much it was used and for what in the past? If you learn a new word today, do you have to wait a certain amount of time before you can use it or do you incorporate it into your vocabulary? It seems like a worthwhile stat to me. I'll bet Ginn's 10 split is relatively slow which in fact negated much of his speed.

The RB may line up 7 yards in the backfield, but how many times do they get the ball and go full speed? More often than not they are looking for the hole, which blocks to follow, and don't really turn on the burners until 3yds behind the line, unless of course they have the burners on from the get go to get outside. For hard runs up the middle, well those aren't the ones that go 90 yards anyway, they are intended for 3 or 4 and anything else is a bonus.

Kory Sheets was undrafted so that means what? Is every $50 bottle of wine better than ever $40 bottle of wine? Of course not. Davone Bess was undrafted too, he is playing well over his draft position. Too many factors, such as needs, luck of the draw factor in to where a player gets drafted. Your ypc stat is a very fair point. One has to consider the competition they played against compared to the competition they will be going against in the NFL. Its very tricky. I'm not sold that it comes down to simply that stat, and I certainly don't see Taiwan lasting as an every down back in this league, nor can he block, two factors similar to Kory Sheets and two factors where Ingram has better prospects at. Saban actually said he used him less to not aggravate his knee, so that explains why his stats were down. Having the fastest 10 yd split at the combine is encouraging to me. I'm sure Taiwan will get drafted. I really don't see him being durable enough or powerful enough for the NFL so that really is my main point agaisnt him. I see him as a luxury change of pace 10 carry back at most, we need at least one core solid versatile back that can handle 20+ carries in the NFL.

Julio Jones - I clearly stated yes, if he falls to 15, you grab him, I'd certainly be very high on that. If he doesnt' fall and we can't trade back, who do we take? I say the highest rated RB in the draft will help OUR team at this point more than the highest rated Oline player. Our oline may need help, but our RB situation needs even more help with no starter currently on the roster.

Rob btw, nice come back to my post...I enjoy the sparring...

Rb is proven to be too easy to fill these days.
Look at where some of the top rbs have been drafted
Chris johnson , arian foster ,micheal turner,ahmad bradshaw,mjd etc.......
Mark Ingram is a nice rb , but loosing teams pick rb's high
Think Dolphins , Ronnie Brown
Oakland Mcfadd
This team needs speed and a qb. Of course an o line makes all these things flourish.
Drafting rbs early is for loosers 0x8o


Suup brah!!!! Good to see you on.

I would say for sure Torrey Smith who is a speed merchant will be long gone in the 1st or very early 2nd. Leonard Hankerson turned in a nice 4.43 40 at the combine but I can't fathom him being there in the 3rd.

I would say a couple of speedsters that will be available from 3rd round on are...

WR Edmond Gates from Abiline Christian. Same school that produced the Bears WR Johnny Knox. Edmonds was 5"11 3/4" and 192 lbs and ran a 4.37 40 at the combine. He brings a nice 18.3 Yards Per Catch average from his college career. As a side note, he didn't look very confident at the combine and deffinitely didn't show his speed in some drills. Deon Sanders was urging him to run and "show me your speed" but he was not.

Yet another guy that has run some pretty fast times is Joe Morgan from small school Walsh. He is 6' 1/2" and 189 lbs and he ran a slower than expected 4.44 in the 40. He is probably a 7th / FA type as his college credentials don't amount to domination at his small school level.

Small school product from Fort Valley State WR Ricardo Lockette. He ran a 4.37 at the combine which is flying on what is thought to be a slower track at Indy. 6'2 1/8" and 211 lbs. Lockette has hardly any college stats and you would be drafting him on projections late round.

Gates would be the only guy to go mid round out of these three. The other two are later round/FA flyer types imho.

They can all run fast.

I hope that helps.



With you all the way in your posts. The only part we disagree with is on taking Jones if he's there. I think he'd be a great bargaining chip but I think he's a luxury we can't afford. No question he would help our team but WR is not the biggest weakness on our team. I think it would be irresponsible of Ireland to ignore the other needs we have, namely RB (that's a big one in mind), OL and even TE. We're not taking TE at 15, I give you that, so as much as it pains me, it's easier OL or RB, if we can't trade back. I say OL, simply for the fact that Carey's not getting any younger, and C and the two G spots still need to be settled (possibly from within in my opinion).

Some observations:

1) When I see clips of Secretariat CRUSHING his competition on the way to winning The Belmont Stakes in 1973, I am not ashamed to say that I get teary-eyed. Secretariat was an example of God gracing his creatures with majestic talent. It's truly awe inspiring.

Last night, watching "America's Game" re: the 1972 Miami Dolphins, I felt the same way seeing Larry Csonka have his great 2nd half run against the Washington Redskins in Super Bowl VII. The Dolphins' perfection is truly awe inspiring. (The irony is that the Dolphins did not score on that drive featuring Csonka's run.)

2) If Angelina Jolie ate like a sensible person, and thus didn't have those terrible veiny hands, and if she never defiled her body with tattoos, and if she didn't wear so much make-up - if all that, you might be able to make a case that she's one of the 10 most beautiful women during my lifetime. Right up there with Jaclyn Smith and Veronica Hamel.

3) Sometimes I wonder if Armando reads my comments. Just thinking that he does fills me with wonder and dread. AM I GOOD ENOUGH FOR HIM???

4) When I was a teenager, I used to daydream that I would become the field goal kicker for the Miami Dolphins. (I clearly had neither the size nor talent to be anything else.) Alas, I did not have much of a leg either. (Although ANYBODY could have been better than Uwe Von Schamann in 1984. The guy was 9 for 19 in field goals. Pathetic.) Anyways, my brothers and I were playing football in the park one day in Toronto, and I lined up for a field goal and I really hammered it. The problem was I kicked it over the fence separating the park from the neighboring synagogue. The ball smashed against the stained glass window but did not break it. I estimate that field goal would have been good from at least 35 yards. If I had broken the window of one of God's holy shrines, I'm pretty sure God, who is American and a Republican, would have understood.

5) Every female I know insists that Anne Hathaway is ugly. They actually become enraged if you think otherwise. I wonder why that is. Anyways, I think she's a real cutie.

6) As hockey players get bigger, it becomes anachronistic how small the ice surface is. I much prefer the larger European rinks. Yet for some reason, despite the gargantuan proportions of today's NFL players, I think the size of the NFL field is just right. I prefer the NFL field to the larger CFL field.

7) Channing Crowder is kind of like that chick who lives next door, and she's not that great looking, but not that ugly. Kind of in between. And you kind of take her for granted. Like, you think that you could have her if you ever wanted her. But you just don't think about her alot. And then - poof - she moves away. And you regret that you never consummated your relationship. And you kind of think - I really should have appreciated her more.

When Channing Crowder, an average to good linebacker at best, misses a game, the Dolphins defense often falls apart.

Back to the "Sea of Hands" for a moment (and that was also my first painful moment as a Dolphins fan):

I know memory can play tricks about something from so long ago, but Buoniconti was NOT the guy who had the ball wrested away on that play.

Take a look at the photo in this link: http://www.raiders.com/assets/images/news/article-images/122109seaofhands-catch.jpg

That's Mike Kolen next to Davis, with Larry Ball behind.

Nathaniel, those "America's Game" segments are must-watch for any Dolphins fan. Beautifully done, and I love all the background/off-the-field archival material culled from local TV coverage, etc. I fully admit to getting a little melancholy about some of it, especially seeing the joy of the fans celebrating back then.

By the way, the 1973 edition is on NFL Network as I write this (kind of sadly ironic to hear Kuechenberg talking about Mercury Morris' 'immaturity' when their roles are reversed today)

digg, take a look at the list of Heismann winning RBs. Lots of HOF's there. Only one was drafted after the 14 pick. Does winning the Heismann guarantee anything? Nope. However, nobody ever called HOF back a loser pick either.

The real argument here is if you are picking at 15, of the likely players left, do you take RB or oline? Looking at our team in its current state, I'd say RB. My opinion. I wouldn't be so high on Ingram if there were better options available, I think this drafts 1st round is relatively weak after the 10 spot. That is the real issue.

@ 0x80,

Will Ingram be a solid NFL runner more than likely, I won`t argue that point but is he such a game changing talent were you can`t pass him up, is he the next Emmit ? That remains to be seen, Emmit by the way some times gets a bad rap, did he run behind the best OL of his era yes but he also ran for over 2,000 in one season at U of Fla. and holds all major state rec. with over 8,800 yards rushing in H.S. so unless he was being followed around every where by great OL`s since Jr. High he was pretty damn good as well. Does Ingram have the ability to be that type of player, maybe.

I don`t argue your points on his merits, they speak for themselves. I just don`t have that gut feeling that tells me we can`t get someone like him in the draft on any given season, what I do see is a draft with some real good prospect at the top with OL and a deep pool at RB that will allow talent to be found thru out, this without taking into account the rediculously deep FA class. We should draft one and wait CBA out to pick up another. I`m not worried about a RB coming in late and picking up the O, a situation Ingram and rooks will be in as well. In this route we can address more needs not just take Ingram and start having to look to reach on BA O-Linemen, which are less likely found at the bottom of the draft.

Dr. Roberts, I'm sure you saw the segment where Kuechenberg talks about throwing Mercury's ghetto blaster out the window of the team bus. Mercury denies it ever happened. Who do you think is telling the truth?

By the way, the Sea of Hands game is also the first game that ever broke my heart. All subsequent disappointments in my life - football or otherwise - have been a variation on that game. When I lost a girl to someone else, that was Cliff Branch falling down, cathing a pass, AND getting up and running for a TD.

My fellow bloggers, just for perspective... It's not that I think Ingram is going to be Eric Dickerson or Payton or LT. I'm not a raging Ingram fan. I do however see and agree why he is the highest rated RB in this draft. I think there are just not a whole lot of options at 15 for that high of a pick in this draft, so my argument is really needs based compared to whats available based. Ireland may very well go D at 15.

Nathaniel, my sense is that Kooch may be embellishing the truth a bit. Of course, we're talking about TWO big egos here so who knows?

(weird to be typing this with Kuechenberg's voice in the background on the TV)

And, yes...the '74 playoff game. Sigh. I was 11 and had only really started paying attention to the team earlier that season. Before that, they were just the local team that went to---and won---the Super Bowl every year (oh, to have just cared more a year or two earlier!)

Anyway, broke a lamp and cried myself to sleep that night.

fin4, you do make a point that I can more easily agree with. Ingram is not a once in a decade type pick, no. We could forego RB, resign Ronnie or Ricky, pick up a late rounder, and consider a true RB of the future next year.

My concern with that is merely this - I just don't see any of this years late round RBs as carrying the full load, my gut feeling is NEXT year we will be seriously looking at drafting a QB very high, and that we may not have the option to get a solid, core RB until the year after. However there is always FA, there are options.

It really just depends who else they would take at 15. If they get a solid 5 year starter out of that pick, I won't think about missing Ingram for one second. That is not flipflopping on my part either, I have stated that very sentiment in the past.

Craig, what's up man? I agree with everything you said about the NFLPA and the Draft.

Kris, LOL!!! Well said bro, you know how I don't like to take too far of a position on anything (in case I need to change my mind).

By the way, I don't think Green is the type of player you pass up, ever. I agree with Craig, he (looks) like he'll be another Megatron, and if by some chance (right now I'm putting that chance at .000001%) he drops to us, we have to take him.

I don't think he alone wins us anymore games, but I think his addition says a few things about the team, such as Miami wanting to become a pass-dynamic offense like many of the great teams today. Also says that the QB position will be EXTREMELY IMPORTANT going forward (you don't have Marshall, Green and Bess and a QB who can't get them the ball), that Henne will have a limited amount of time to prove he can lead the team, and if not it'll be on to greener pastures.

As I've said here many times, the Ingram pick (IMO) would indicate the opposite, that we're the same type of offense that's been here previously, methodical, run first, ball control. And that we don't trust our QB to lead the team, so we need to put it on the RBs shoulders.


Emmit Smith`s busted shoulder game in the 93 playoffs against G-Men is the gutsiest tough guy performance I ever saw, right up there with Ronnie Lott having a piece of a broken index finger cut off to stay in S.B.

The sea of hands play was in fact a bit of a fluke, the Fins needing to score and kill clock down by 4 at the end of the game with 5 min. left hand of to Bennie Malone who rips off a 60 yd. TD run leaving the Snake with to much time to answer.

Mando`s post on Sunday, a real head scratcher, the Fins have notoriously passed on Hurricane players thru out there history from Shula on down, could go for 2 pages by myself listing players we passed on, I`ll keep it to one pass, all world g.o.a.t. future sure fire 1st. ballot H.O.F Ray Lewis

No scenario being bounced around in this post is necessarily wrong, they all help Fins get better and have merit, we just enjoy dissecting each others points of view, due to off season football with drawl and competitive nature`s

I wonder if the NFL owners and players while arguing over the 9 billion on the table even discussed the idea of donating half of 1% ($ 45 million) of there revenue to help Japan, it would have made for a nice P.R. move in there classless and gready dogg fight

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