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Report: Williams, Brown not very elusive

Earlier this week I wrote this column stating the Dolphins intentions of remaining a run-first team and telling you how intriguing that is, considering the Dolphins don't have any proven starting caliber running backs on the roster.

Yes, the club can always re-sign Ricky Williams or Ronnie Brown or both. But I wrote that I wouldn't count on either being back.

This despite the fact coach Tony Sparano made very clear during his meeting with the media that he had no problems with the way Brown and Williams played last year. He actually said they played well.

Of course, I've reminded you time and again not to get too caught up in what the Dolphins say as much as what they do. If Williams and Brown played so well, how come the club opted not to re-sign either one before the labor agreement fell off the cliff into an abyss of pending legal challenges?

Well, the able folks at ProFootballFocus.com have crunched the numbers and they'll be happy to tell you why neither Williams nor Brown were priorities -- their numbers confirm what your eyes should have been telling you:

Neither Williams nor Brown were very good at gaining yardage on their own last season. Neither was good at breaking tackles or running away from tackles.

ProFootballFocus refers to this as its elusive rating. It measures a back's ability and performance independent of the blocking in front of him. This rating is a great equalizer in that it removes the advantages running backs that play behind great offensive lines have over those who do not.

PFF further states their elusive rating filters out coaching and playcalling, as well as the other 10 guys on the offense.

So where did Brown and Williams rate in 2010?

Bottom 20 of 58 rated backs.

Brown rated No. 48 of 58 with an elusive rating of 20.8. Keep in mind Ladell Betts had the worst elusive rating, according to PFF.com, with a 3.1. LeGarrette Blount led PFF's elusive ratings at 89.8.

Brown, the website said, gained 58.6 percent of his yards after contact or 2.2 yards per carry. That's bottom-third ordinary. Blount gained over 73 percent of his yards after contact and Oakland's Darren McFadden averaged 3.5 yards after contact.

For perspective, understand that Adrian Peterson gained 877 of his 1,298 after contact last season. Brown gained a total of 734 yards.

Ricky Williams fared better. But not much.

He ranked 40th of 58 backs, with an elusive rating of 26.7. He was in the same company with backs such as Willis McGahee and Michael Bush.

Williams averaged 2.5 yards per carry after contact, according to PFF. He had 404 yards after contact for the season -- meaning 60 percent of his yards came after contact.

The stats would suggest that if the Dolphins want to bring back the more effective back from last year, it would be Williams. The problem is no one can predict if Williams, who turns 34 in May, will simply fall of the table with wear because of his age or continue to provide semi-acceptable play.

The elusive rating article doesn't mention Brown or Williams except for one instance but it is interesting.

One more thing: DeAngelo Williams, the back many Dolphins fans are eyeing because he's scheduled to be an unrestricted free agent is not on the 2010 report because he was injured much of the season. Williams had an elusive rating of 42.61 in 2009, which was 15th best in the NFL.

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I think Ireland should ask any O-lineman he may draft if they only get excited about blocking when there is an elusive RB in the backfield.

WEED EM OUT...LOL

Julian Asage,

We get it, the world's coming to an end and we cant do anything to stop it. Give it a break already. We've been warned of the coming day for well over 2,000yrs now.

WE DO GET IT! LOL...........................

UTdolfan,

If you wet the bed and someone asks do you wet the bed. Are you going to admit it? LOL.........

Ryan Williams is also one of the more elusive rb's available in this draft. Of the more elusive rb's available we need to draft at least one of the following 3:

Mark Ingram, Ryan Williams, or Kendall Hunter. I would be very happy with at least one of those 3 rb's giftwrapped on draft day.


UTdolfan,

If you wet the bed and someone asks do you wet the bed. Are you going to admit it? LOL.........

Posted by: DyingBreed


Actually DB, I'd wonder why the hell they even gave two sheets about it.

Also the more elusive rb's can eventually began to break a defense's spirit, while boosting the spirits of his own oline. He gives his own oline the ever so slight advantage of seizing the game's momentun.

On the pro level, even an ever so slight advantage can eventually become huge.

DB, I'd take any of those three over any of the FA's like to be available. With Steven Jackson unsigned, you wonder if the Rams at 14 are thinking about some fresh legs.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH TRADING UP?

YOU GET ONE GREAT PLAYER INSTEAD OF A GOOD PLAYER AND A BENCH WARMER.

in a way the state of our running game (ts favoured method of moving the football) is actually in more of a mess than our passing game which at least has some players, i would have at least ronnie or ricky back (ronnie>ricky) but both may decide not to come back then were left with guys on the roster who have little evidence of success or rookies with young legs but no nfl experience or someone else's cast offs, jeepers, i like trying to be optimistic but it's getting harder and harder, looks like we need 2 rookie rb's and prob 1 from the first 2 picks we make probably with the other being an ol guy who can block for him!

looks like i'm gonna stay in the icu forever

wolf,

What's the deal?

Tony said your health actually improved last season.

JUSTIN CREDIBLE,

Trading up maybe a JUST UNCREDIBLE thing to do. Just to trade up to the #10 spot will cost us at least a 3rd rd'er. We already dont have a 2nd rd pick.

So JUSTIN CREDIBLE if we even gave up our 3rd rd pick to move up to #10 and the guy turned bust. Dont you think our 2011 draft would then sum up to in all actuality, begining in the 4th rd?

IMO, it's JUSTIN CREDIBLY stupid to not have a 2nd rd pick, give up your 3rd rd just to hit the #10 slot(to move higher most likely costs 2012's 2nd rd pick), at the even greater risk that guy you choose doesnt perform as you expected. Not to mention he could also turn totally bust too.

Im not attacking you or calling you mentally challenged. Im just stating you also have to look at the much broader picture and potential damaging consequences that can also result from such a hasty move.

Seems the risk could also far outweigh the rewards there.

The numbers dont lie. Ronnie Brown only has average at best elusiveness. Williams is better but you have to greatly consider at age 34 he's on his last hurah at best.

Neither Ronnie nor Ricky are the future of the Miami Dolphins running game. Greater wisdom states both are at the end of thier era in Miami. Lets bring the "young guns" in! LOL.......

DB, early in this post I questioned the validity of comapring the two. I think I made a good point, that this did not show us anything more for Williams than Brown.

the more I think of it now, it is kind of useless.

We do need a young Burner, but to sign ronnie if the price is decent is a good idea, and if we can not get D. williams, then fgetting Micahel bush could be a nice affordable move.... If this strike ends....

ts has a problem with diagnostics he doesn't realise i'm starving

i have a problem with being a sorry part of ts's imagination, an abstract concept, brought to life by the absolute b**llocks that was dished out to finfans last season and apparantly destined to languish on the cusp of death forever coz i'm still f***?ing starving

All of you guys that are pro trade up. Remember, last season we sat #13 and sold the slot for a 2nd rd'er.

So more likely than not it'll cost 2012's 2nd rd'er just to move up to the #10 slot based on what we got forn giving up the #13 slot last season. To me, it suggest to possibly move inside of the top 10 will cost 2012's 2nd and 3rd rd'er or the 2012 1st rd'er.

To get #5, we're talking no less than 2012's 1st and 3rd rd picks(possibly this year's 3rd pick too. So which mortgage payment would you like to have? These are the easy credit rates. LOL................

Poizen,

You also have to consider if resigning Ronnie, the vet minimum and how many years that you wanna commit to him for. When considering that, it could still be less money to bring in younger more elusive legs.

In my tradedown scenario mock draft, I selected Kendall Hunter 3rd rd and Gators speedy rb Emmanuel Moody 6th rd. In this scenario, it's really not even economically sound to keep Brown even at the vet minimum.

Because now you have two younger more elusive rb's locked up for at least the next 4yr whose draft status will probably have them getting paid less than the vet minimum you would resign Brown at.

Brown now becomes expendable because of both performance and economics.

@ Kris & GulfD 9:30,

Funny exchange guys, sorry but some of the stuff you guys put up there had me LMAO !
Which is probably the best way to take some of the back and forth on here, I just wanted to say that I don`t take somebody disagreeing with me very personally, I`ve spent the better part of a month in a heated debate with 0x80, odin, Rob, DB, DC and others including yourselves on what would be the best course for the team come draft day, FA, O philosophy ECT...

For the most part all the differing points of view have made for interesting reading and have swayed me back and forth, like I`m sure it`s done for others as well. I can`t recall though when everybody got so bent out of shape dropping insults, it takes away from some killer debates and then everybody ends up on here apologizing, turning our Football RAH !! RAH !! blogg into some sappy soap opera, so what do you all say we get back to agreeing to disagree without being hostile, it`s proven to be alot more fun, IMHO.

The real Question here guys is this, Can the fist pumper win more then 4 games next year???, I say no..I've already posted why they wont, What are your thoughts?????And if they can win more then 4, how will they do it... This is your homework for the day people...

Guys we cant continue mortgaging the future because we have no idea what the futur may bring.

What if Jake Long and Cam Wake sustained career ending knee injuries this season and we've mortgaged 2012's 1st rd and 3rd rd'ers. Then on top of it, the guy we selected in giving up those picks is not playing up to status or even bust.

We've given away critical picks, so now what do we over the 2012 offseason? These are very difficult situations to solve even with all of your picks in hand and next to complete impossible when you dont.

That's why it's never truly wise to mortgage your future when you never know what the future truly holds. You may get away with a time or two doing it very sparingly. But if making it an often practice will put your broken a*ss in a paper slinger.

Cuban,

Has the roast pork gone sour, does the cheese have mold? The solid nucleus of this team alone pretty much guarantees no less than 5 wins. Even Tony Sparano cant f*uck that up! LOL..........

fin4life,

It became more dramatic as the day passed. But I agree, it is better to type football.

I agree to disagree on a more civil note.

Thanks

I think there are a load of scenario`s that could work long or short term for the R.B. position, it`s why I don`t place it as our #1 priority.

1) We could sign Micheal Bush when FA starts probably on the cheap to be a plow horse back, that PFF report Mando put up is misleading with Bush IMO because he was primarily the goal line back in Oak., you can`t compare facing a goal line D to a base D with a 1st and 10 on your own 20. In that scenario you could then look for a change of pace back in the draft of which there are many.

2) If we draft Ingram then open up the wallet and bring a proven commodity like A.Bradshaw to be our speed back, I think those 2 if that`s the route we go could be an inspired pairing.

3) You could make an argument for resigning Brown and drafting or signing a speed compliment, same with R.Williams, swing a trade for Mike Tolbert with S.D. and Draft somebody to pair with him. There are just to many options at our disposal, this draft however is packed at the top end with quality OL and you don`t see that every year. I think we should grab one and start from there.

Cuban,

If we can win 7 games with Dan Henning, Chad Henne, Tony Sparano, Ronnie Brown, and a semi broken down offensive line. Its next to impossible to win less than 5 games in 2011.

Hell, it's like we survived hurricane Katrina last season! LOL...............

Breed,Don't bet on that, If there's a way for "Fisty" to muff a game(E.G, Missed time out,not getting the play in on time)(Which has happen too many times already)He'll do it, This guy is worse then Dave(No clue)Wannstadt IMHO.........

Carimi !!! Carimi !!! Carimi !!!

And with the 15th pick of the 2011 NFL Draft Miami has traded down with ? for ?

Then my war chant becomes:

Pouncey !!! Pouncey !!! Pouncey !!!

May I also add that the mighty air-breathers were the first team to lose to the Lions,Browns, and Bills in a single season.... At home none the less...........

fin4life,

There's good rb value in the draft this year. Since we're a rb by committe team anyway, my best bet is that we'll draft 2 rb's, possibly sign a vet(wont be R&R), and either Hilliard or Sheets will be let go. Possibly the late rd rookie rb drafted if he cant beat out Hilliard or Sheets.

I see nearly zero chance Ricky or Ronnie are resigned. Depending how the cookie crumbles Cobbs could be a surprise cut too. He does everything average but does nothing great.

Unless someone like Julio Jones or Robert Quinn were to fall to 15, cause then my BPA mentality kicks into high gear !!

fin4life,

Im with you there. In a trade down scenario I see us taking the best projected guard in this draft, Mike Pouncey. I wouldnt be mad at all! LOL..........

DYINGBREED:

FOR EVERY TOM BRADY THERE'S A RYAN LEAF.

HOWEVER MORE TIMES THAN NOT YOU WILL GET A BETTER PLAYER IN THE TOP 10.

NOT SAYING HE WILL BE EVEN GOOD LET ALONE GREAT BUT CHANCES ARE A LITTLE BIT HIGHER.

HOW MANY TEAMS WOULD GIVE UP A 3RD ROUND PICK FOR RANDY MOSS, OR ADRIAN PETERSON.

Cuban,

In those 3 losses Chad Henne threw up his worst stink bomb performances of the season. No matter how bad the opponent, when your qb serves up a total stink bomb performance your chances of victory sinks faster than the Titanic, in quicksand I might add! LOL.................

f4l@ 2.47 + db @ 2.39

echo, echo

ok, was on a downer earlier remembering my birth

cuban on only 4 wins u'r making me sad, i hope your wrong but who knows

to say something +ve about the fo

getting wake and getting nolan, that was them

marshall (ok some worries there) dansby and misi

these are all cool by me

maybe we need one more piece on defence but if ( big if) we can stop turning over the ball...


i'd go OL,RB, 2 of our first 3 pics in whatever order the board says is best at the time of the pic whatever round they're eventually in, prob a qb with the other but if they don't rate one at each pic then go wr or dl instead

then 1 more rb and whatever else u fancy,

henne starts, marshall is told to suck it up

keep ronnie

12 wins baby

our awsesome d will be 2nd year awesome

fin4life, I like it, we are close on ideas.


DB, I love the effort on your post toward my comment.

I like the way your thinking. I am not sold on the 3rd round pick being a sure fire NFL guy, like I am that Ronnie is. And the florida kid making it. so for me the expense difference may out weigh the risk.

That being said, I like the thought.

Really, this is definitive proof that Ronnie and Ricky are done and can't break tackles etc...? This is after contact, I hear, but contact by who? It is one thing to break the tackles of a safety, or even a LB. It is another is the line get collapsed and the D-Line guys are the ones making contact. I don't care who you put behind the Fins' line last year, with also the weak, short passing game, the line was stacked, there weren't many holes, and the LB's and DB's were all close to the line to FORCE Henne to beat them. Do some of you watch the games?

Just watch and see where Ronnie goes if he doesn't re-sign, lets see what he does on another team, I think some of you are going to be sorry...

The other point is elusive? Not many 230 pound RB's are that elusive, that is generally for the guys around 210. Both Ronnie and Ricky move well for their size, I do think Ricky was better when he was in the 218-220 range, he was quicker and faster.. Who is elusive and fast CJ? He weighs what 205?

Breed, Correct, Like in my previous posts I outline the follies of the upcoming season, I havent felt this sorry for the team since the Wannstedt era.....(not even during the cameron era).... OUCH....

Fin4, what is in worse shape right now, our oline or our running game? We have an oline, we have no starting calibur RB's. Nate Garner is coming back, and its certainly not a stretch to think Jerry will show improvement in his 2nd year. While I do believe the oline still needs some help, I just don't think its in as bad a shape as others do.

I like the options for RB available to us in the draft more than any of the FA options, but if they only draft one RB, I'd be ok with them grabbing a vet from FA. Still though, hard for me to see oline a higher priority than RB considering the state of both as of today.

I know I sound like a broken record, Henne did not play WELL last year.

But the stink bombs and bad games or whatever you want to call them, the team also let Henne down.

I am serious when I say this, I will not argue that Henne needs to grow a pair and challenge coaching, and man up and lead. However, I think everyone needs to put more thought in just bashing the guy.

When his line played above average in front of him he had 300+ yard games, and moved the ball like nobody's business.

The bad games were a combination of him panicing from just not getting consistant time, then he was told not to take a sack, then he was told not to throw a int, Actually he was told "don't make negative plays" I think that is what Sporano said.

How do you avoid a negative play if your line is rotated/hurt and then just sucks? It is IMPOSSIBLE. Our Dan Marino would not be successful with that. MARINO is much better than Henne, it was just the point.

You can not expect a QB to go out there and play really well if in their mind they say, DONT MAKE A MISTAKE... those QB's alwys second guess themselves before throwing the ball creating more problems.

you ask the QB to go out and make plays, if they go out and stink up the joint you pull them, then if it does not get better cut them.

Until that happens you have no clue how good or bad a QB is.

0x80, The worst part of the team is coaching......

Except maybe on the "D" side....

0x80, I know you did not ask me, But I think the O-Line is our BIGGEST problem.

I'm not saying we don't have good players, but injuries killed us, and continuity was a problem.

Ronnie and Ricky have more in the tank. I think Ronnie has more drive to be a phin vs ricky does however.

There are some solid free agents this year, if things open up. And the draft have some really nice outside the tackles guys.

But finding more depth on the O-line that is quality could be difficult. We need another back up center, cause I do not want to see. incognito snapping a shotgun again.

Cuban, I've been chanting that since November. TS is in way over his head, its painfully obvious. This will be his last season as an HC in the NFL.I see him heading to Dallas or NO to coach the oline.

good point cuban... I think i take mycomment back, but O-line is close. :)

Poizen... Neither Ricky or Ronnie are members of the Miami Dolphans. If you read Armandos recent article, it really sounds like the FO has no intention of bringing either of them back.

Many here would agree with you about the oline. I personally think its just not the train wreck many bloggers make it out to be. Now the RB situation right now is a bottemless pit, thats what I call a bigger void.

A good QB can make the oline look better too folks. So can a good RB. It isn't a one way street. Ricky did not have a very good oline during the Wanny years, his most productive as a fin. Even the opposing defenses would tease him about how poor that oline was.

THE DOLPINS WILL DRAFT THE GREAT JACOY HARRIS FROM MAIMI AND ALL THE GAG OF DEFEET WILL LAFF AND SAY WHAT A STUPID PICK,BUT HE WIL WIN THE MVP OF THE LEAGUE.,WATCH

@ DB 2:57

Agreed 100%, I thought Cobb was gonna get the axe last year then remembered he`s one of Sparano`s faivorates.

@ the wolf, Poizen 3:05

DITTO !!!!

@ 0X80 3:11

As usual we end up back were we started about a month and a half ago, LOL, I think if you bring in Pouncey and plug him next to Long with Incognito at Center they will pave the way for alot of R.B.`s, ditto for Carimi at RG, just my opinion but like I said earlier there are any # of scenario`s at R.B. that could work, long or short term. I know one thing though, like you said one of us is going to have a killer I told you so moment in the future, LOL, I love it !! keep it coming chief !

Poizen,

Ricky may still have slightly more left in the tank. But he's not the future and its time to move on.

Brown has more left in the tank but he's still fully proven during his 6 seasons here that he's just a average rb in terms of seasonal running yardage at best.

Though fairly young, there's not a whole lot to say about the guys behind either neither. If some here that doesnt think the entire Dolphins rb stable doesnt need revamping. Well, to you I say, there's a really cheap bridge that will always be up for sell.

Will you be making the purchase by cash or credit?

fin4, no worries, at the end of the 2011 season I'll go easy on ya.

r jones and n carroll r certainly not busts yet

odrick, jerry and edds aren't either, so last's year darft could still turnout ok incl the trade down

+ if the fo manage to not, not ,not mortgage our future (on reaches or worse trades up for pics and reaches) and use some of their (at times very ELUSIVE judgement)
WE might start getting somewhere

(but our secondary and wr's still need some decent footwear, is that quality control?)(!)


THE DOLPINS WILL DRAFT THE GREAT JACOY HARRIS FROM MAIMI AND ALL THE GAG OF DEFEET WILL LAFF AND SAY WHAT A STUPID PICK,BUT HE WIL WIN THE MVP OF THE LEAGUE.,WATCH

Posted by: ALoco | March 25, 2011 at 03:35 PM

Lil Aloco.... WTF????, Have you been "Huffing" since 7 am????, LOL at lil aloco....

fin4life,

A tamden of Long and Pouncey could have the great potential of becoming the next Gene Upshaw and Art Shell.

I absolutely love the prospect of having 2 1st rd olinemen on the offensive line. You can keep drafting them 3rd and further out hoping to have a great line.

That's what's so intriguing about a trade back draft scenario. Becoming an instant championship calibre oline by placing a 1st rd calibre guy next to Long and moving Incognito to center.

In a couple short seasons they would become like the Great Wall of China! The only way that you couldnt run behind that line is to have no legs! LOL..........

This FO does not have the best record drafting linemen on ether side of the ball, and you want to trust them to use the most precious pick on a lineman?

Donald Thomas - gone
Shawn Murphy - gone
Lionel Dotson - ?
John Nalbone - gone
Andrew Gardner - gone
Merling - nuff said
Langford - ok, won't knock him
Odrick - still giving him the benefit of the doubt, but drafting a DE with implants in his leg #1?
Jerry - still giving him the benefit of the doubt.

ALoco,

At least if we draft Jacory Harris our db's can get plenty of practice holding onto picks in practice. Cuban Menance, Aloco just may have something here.

Draft Jacory Harris 7th rd, our db's need the holding onto picks practice. LOL...........

It's worrisome when the strength of your head coach is the thing he is actually the worst at.

armando - please get those "slips" stats including cleat density/ area of sole, cleat diammeter, c depth, ,synthetic grass, blade grass length, turf root density etc,

we also need shoe sizes and body wt ratios so we can calculate forces transmitted at ground contact and perhaps player velocity

bet those are elusive stats

hey armando, i'm just kidding

don't stop writing, u might end up curing everyones obsession with this place

to be a suck up - your good articles are good

your dodgy one's are jsut there to wind us up and get us talking - we know

Wolfy, Odrick will never play again, He's got a bone Problem, This is another wasted pick by the phins..., Dont have spell check so I'll wing it he's got Osterposesso the word is misspelled.... Like I said, I dont have spell check and it is another reason why I have no faith in the fins front office, He was diagnosed with it before last years draft..

I left out Long on my list, so 1 out of the 10 lineman they drafted has materialized as a top tier player.

Well DB, I did give what I think is a nice option earlier.

Sign ronnie @ the right price, he will be a home town discount since he really wants to stay.

Get Michael Bush, He is not a goalline guy and can run between the tackles well.

Trade back to the second and get the illinois kid if he is there... there are a few burner rb/kick returners that will be there in the 2nd and 3rd.

If Ronnie is as bad as you think, Bush is a proven commodity. If Ronnie is what I think he can be, we would have a SCARY as hell back field that will punish defenses. Then run around them when they slow down... I don't know, I like it. :) Brown and Bush come at little $$ per risk.

then we can spend more time on getting the O-line depth.

0x80,

Nalbone was a TE. Also thats why in my upper post I stated we can keeping drafting olinemen 3rd rd and further back hoping it will work out.

Therefore, selecting Pouncey as our 1st rd pick in a trade down scenario would be brilliant.

osteoporosis, u can often treat that, maybe not make an athlete

anyway he's not retired so somebody thinks his legs might work again

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