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Report: Williams, Brown not very elusive

Earlier this week I wrote this column stating the Dolphins intentions of remaining a run-first team and telling you how intriguing that is, considering the Dolphins don't have any proven starting caliber running backs on the roster.

Yes, the club can always re-sign Ricky Williams or Ronnie Brown or both. But I wrote that I wouldn't count on either being back.

This despite the fact coach Tony Sparano made very clear during his meeting with the media that he had no problems with the way Brown and Williams played last year. He actually said they played well.

Of course, I've reminded you time and again not to get too caught up in what the Dolphins say as much as what they do. If Williams and Brown played so well, how come the club opted not to re-sign either one before the labor agreement fell off the cliff into an abyss of pending legal challenges?

Well, the able folks at ProFootballFocus.com have crunched the numbers and they'll be happy to tell you why neither Williams nor Brown were priorities -- their numbers confirm what your eyes should have been telling you:

Neither Williams nor Brown were very good at gaining yardage on their own last season. Neither was good at breaking tackles or running away from tackles.

ProFootballFocus refers to this as its elusive rating. It measures a back's ability and performance independent of the blocking in front of him. This rating is a great equalizer in that it removes the advantages running backs that play behind great offensive lines have over those who do not.

PFF further states their elusive rating filters out coaching and playcalling, as well as the other 10 guys on the offense.

So where did Brown and Williams rate in 2010?

Bottom 20 of 58 rated backs.

Brown rated No. 48 of 58 with an elusive rating of 20.8. Keep in mind Ladell Betts had the worst elusive rating, according to PFF.com, with a 3.1. LeGarrette Blount led PFF's elusive ratings at 89.8.

Brown, the website said, gained 58.6 percent of his yards after contact or 2.2 yards per carry. That's bottom-third ordinary. Blount gained over 73 percent of his yards after contact and Oakland's Darren McFadden averaged 3.5 yards after contact.

For perspective, understand that Adrian Peterson gained 877 of his 1,298 after contact last season. Brown gained a total of 734 yards.

Ricky Williams fared better. But not much.

He ranked 40th of 58 backs, with an elusive rating of 26.7. He was in the same company with backs such as Willis McGahee and Michael Bush.

Williams averaged 2.5 yards per carry after contact, according to PFF. He had 404 yards after contact for the season -- meaning 60 percent of his yards came after contact.

The stats would suggest that if the Dolphins want to bring back the more effective back from last year, it would be Williams. The problem is no one can predict if Williams, who turns 34 in May, will simply fall of the table with wear because of his age or continue to provide semi-acceptable play.

The elusive rating article doesn't mention Brown or Williams except for one instance but it is interesting.

One more thing: DeAngelo Williams, the back many Dolphins fans are eyeing because he's scheduled to be an unrestricted free agent is not on the 2010 report because he was injured much of the season. Williams had an elusive rating of 42.61 in 2009, which was 15th best in the NFL.

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CraigM,

When is your last post coming out in paperback? LOL..............

One other thought about Bryant, kris. Deon Sanders was his BIGGEST advocate coming out. He has now dropped him and says 'the kid needs help'. They have a team keeping an eye on Bryant, making certain he doesn't do anything REALLY stupid. Deon says of Bryant 'I can forgive but I'll never forget'. You tell me why a guy who was his biggest advocate has turned on him?

To me Bryant, only one year into the league, while a wonderful talent, is a guy who is going to continue to have trouble follow him and who may go off a time or two. Let's watch and see and then we can determine of Ireland was right or wrong to pass on this guy.

Regarding the Dez Bryant matter....the FO was debating between Dez and Brandon. They interviewed Dez and weren't impressed with his football knowledge, so they went with Brandon. The fact Mike Nolan was on Denver a year and had more intimate knowledge of him no doubt supported their decision. I don't think it was ever their plan to bring in two wideouts at $50 million each the same season, NFL teams just don't do that, it was one or the other.

CraigM,

Bryant doesnt play for the Dolphins so why should we even wanna waste our time seeing whether Irelands right or wrong on him. As far as dolphans should be concerned the point is totally moot right now.

Our hands are totally full just watching the state of our own wretched affairs here.

0x80,

Really like your last couple of posts. Do ypou then believe that if Julio Jones is somehow there at 15 that these guys will pass on him? Couldn't agree more with you about this organizations lack of success drafting running backs mid to late rounds. Dismal!

DB, I'm just trying to catch up with you and all your multiple posts....LOL. Figure one large post would do it...LOL. I expect to get a lot of disagreement on my comments, and that's fine.

CraigM,

Besides, Deon Sanders is one of the biggest douche bags out there. So there's very little most will lend to anything he says anyway. I dont! LOL...........

DB, I just read through the posts of the last 12 hours or so...you 'seem' to be ridiculing those who are saying don't draft an oliner with this years #1 pick, yet in your own mocks you have Ingram at 15. Am I misinterpreting something???

The argument you make for not taking a late round oliner equally speaks of our experience taking later round QB's or RB's. So just not sure where you are coming from.

Without a doubt the Dolphins got issues.
This includes ownership, the FO, and the coaching staff.
Don't get the feeling that this crew has the vision or ability to get us to the promised land.
Hope like hell I am wrong.

Anyway, I am glad Dan Henning is gone.

While I'm at it, I am glad Bill Parcells is gone.
Great coach but wasn't impressed with him in his role as the Exec. VP of FB Ops.

DB,

If you go back and read my earlier post, I was making the point that guys on here want to run Ireland down all the time and one of the things they like to say is 'we should have drafted Bryant instead of Odrick'.....blah, blah, blah....

What I'm saying is that maybe Ireland isn't as big a dummy as everyone says he is. All the signs are there that trouble will follow Bryant throughout this career and maybe you don't win championships with guys like that. I'm saying can we hold of on the verdicts on Bryant and Ireland for a couple of more years.

CraigM,

Though it cost us two 2nd rd picks, one which we've already gotten back, the Marshall acquisiton totally atoned for the Dez/Ireland fiasco for me.

If we can trade back and get an extra 3rd rd pick this draft, Marshall's acquisiton is damn near free. So the acquisition of Marshall would be hands down the best when considering all the manuevering to get back what we spent for him.

Dez cost was a 1st rd'er, acquiring at least a 3rd rd'er in this draft virtuall makes the cost of Marshall free, saving the huge contract he got! LOL..........

WHAT ROOKIE PLAYER GETS 50 MILLION AS THE 12TH PICK.

COME ON GUYS YOU ARE SMARTER THAN THAT.

P.S WHERE CAN I FIND THIS STATMENT DION SANDERS MADE.


DB,

I don't agree with you on Marshall. I know he had a 1,000 yard season last year but it was a pretty non-impactful season. If this guy turns on the team this year or next, which I expect he will, it was a complete waste of two draft picks. Like Bryant and Odrick we have to wait 2-3 years to see how this plays out.

0x80,

I said take Ingram if forced to draft at #15. In a tradeback scenario I prefer going with Pouncey.

Have you ever heard of Upshaw and Shell? They are the Oakland Raiders hof leftguard/lefttackle combo of the 70's. This is what I envision placing Pouncey next to Long. A hof combo on the leftside for years to come. Plus, Incognito can play center and become our Jim Otto.

Dude Im trying to envision a oline that could rival the early 70's dolphins. LOL..........

Justin, would you hire an employee that you felt did poorly on the interview? All prostitute questions aside, they were not impressed enough with his head, despite his obvious talent. Their plan was to pay up (pay up = $$$ or the #1 pick)for one WR at the time, not two, there were far too many other needs.

CraigM,

We havent had a 1,000yds wr since the Marino era, you gotta be kidding me right? Plus Marshall thoroughly did his job by commanding double teams. He missed 2 games and still had 86 rec for over 1,000yds.

Some of do live in fairy tale land dont we? LOL............

CraigM,

If "impact" means td's for you, then you cant blame Marshall. Blame Henning(redzone playcalling) and Henne for being afraid to throw the ball up to and let him outphysical the defenders for it.

Plus, not even one endzone fade was thrown at him the entire season. It's not Marshall's fault this staff used him as a $50 million decoy. LOL................

DB,

I've talked to you before about the insults. Feel free to disagree with me all you want but don't be an a** about it. You make some decent points and you're a good guy to talk to on here but when you start this stuff I start to tune you out. Because I don't agree with you doesn't mean you're right and I'm wrong....so give it a break OK?

Marshall for all the good he did giving us 1,000 yards last year didn't improve our record one bit from being 7-9 the year before. There were plays and even games he took off last year. Before we annoint this such a great trade, let's keep an eye on this guy going forward. I think he's a selfish player and cares only about his stats. Let's see if you feel the same way about the trade the next time he 'quits' on the team or takes another boneheaded penalty that costs us.

DB, I realize that. You ribbed me last night (rib me all you want by the way its fine) on my response to fin4 who suggested why not take Pouncey and just get a RB from FA, and I said I thought the chances of trading down were less than 50/50 and I didn't like most the FA options, so I simply made the same argument back to him to say why not then take a RB at #1 and just find a guard in FA. It was only that.

The truth is, while we haven't had success taking oliners in late rounds with this regime, we haven't had success taking late round or FA QB's and RB's with the last several regimes. Me, I'd like both Ingram and Pouncey if they could swing that!

CraigM,

With Marshall it was like buying a brand new riding lawn and it was so pretty you were afraid to cut the lawn with it. Instead you ride it up and down the street just to impress your neighbors.

Is that the brand new riding lawnmower's fault? LOL............


Henne's skill set was enough for him to break all of Brady's Michigan passing records and all of Brees's Big 10 passing records. The previous offense did not match his skill set, this new one will.

Publicado por: PriceMaster | March 26, 2011 at 10:02 AM


What passing records are you talking about ? He split time with Brian Griese as the sarter before Griese took the job full time and led Michigan to a National Title win in 98 Rose Bowl against Ryan Leaf`s Wash. St. Cyclones. It`s why Griese got drafted in the 2nd. round by Denver and Brady fell to the 6th.

CraigM,

Go cry on towel. You get oversensitive when you feel you're losing on a very loosely substantiated point. Then try and blame others for insulting you. Grow up and shed your snake skin.

Anytime you come up with real facts to unstantiate anything I say. I can guarantee I'll never accuse you of insulting me. Im a lover of truth, not the wonders and fanciments of my own self-delusions. LOL..............

0x80,

Sounds to me like we're both on the same page. Maybe you misunderstood something I said.

Im all for taking Ingram at #15 if we cant trade back. But if we can trade back, I absolutely love the prospects of a potential hof leftside of the oline with the tandem of Long and Pouncey.

Then move Incognito to center. Maybe these three could be the 70's equivalent of Upshaw-Shell and center Jim Otto. It was definitely give the prospect of being our greatest offensive line since our very own early 70's dolphins.


kolb only has 2,082 yds passing in four years. he had one 300 yd game last year and two in 2009. henne had (3) 300 yd games in 2010. he also had 3 in 2009. he threw for more yds and more td's last year than kolb has thrown for in his four year career with the eagles.

Publicado por: dm1dophan | March 26, 2011 at 09:34 AM

Best argument I`ve read yet on why we don`t trade for Kolb, I personally think he is an averege at best NFL starter. If your Reid and the Dolphins come calling you answer the phone in a hurry though. I imagine it`s still quite the laugher at parties when he gets to talking how he jobbed us in the AJ Feeley trade, ouch !!

fin4life,

My deal on Kolb is that the Eagles have already spent a 2nd rd'er on Kolb, and another poster suggested we trade a 1st rd'er for him.

All in all, that's a 1st and 2nd rd'er spent on a qb that squandered the only starting opportunity he ever had. Now that's insanity! LOL...............

Vick is not a youngster, he still has some years though, but injuries can happen at any time. My point? If a guy like Reid is willing to let Kolb go, something doesn't smell right. Reid may very well have just been more tired of McNabb than infatuated with Kolb. I would consider a 3rd for Kolb, not a second or first no way.

DB,

Bite me!! You don't like what I have to say, too bad!! If you can't be mature enough to have a civil conversation then you're the weaker man. Not sure why you've had a bee in your bonnet all week but why don't you do us all a favour and disappear until the draft like you said you would. This blog is about sharing ideas and opinions and you have to get into comments about 'fairytales' and 'fantasy lands' instead of talking about the issues.

I'm not the first person on here to tell you you have a way of coming across very condescending some times. You don't own the blog and you never will!

Kolb has yet to definitively show anything to even suggest he can be better than even Henne. Both were drafted the same year and same round, yet Henne has far more starts.

If this guy were truly a franchise caliber qb, Vick would never have taken his job. That just doesnt happen to franchise calibre qb's.

Those thinking Kolb need only think back to AJ Feely. The Eagles robbed us blind with him too. He was the kevin Kolb of the 90's. Remember where that one got us? LOL..........

CraigM just told me to bite him and he's calling me immature. rotflmao!.....LOL...........

Keep alienating people DB.....It'll serve you well in life.

I have "a bee in my bonnet" says CraigM. LOL....

You sound like a majorette fighting over who get to twirl the bataam in the Christmas Day Parade. LOL.............

GARIG M,

ASK DB IF HE'S VERY SMART WHY HE DID ALL OVER HIMSELF TO PICK ODRICK LAST YEAR WITH BROKEN LEG AND THIS YEAR HE WANTS US TO PICK INGRAM WITH KNEE ISSUES ?


DB IS A MAFIA BOSS WHO'S PUSHING EVERY ONE OUT OF THIS BLOG .

Also when comparing stat sheets between Kolb & Henne ask yourself this, how would Henne fair if he had D.Jack, J.Mac, L.MCcoy, Avant and Cellek to throw to, you don`t think he would have put up better #, maybe or maybe not but I got Money that says it would have in a worst case scenario been dead even, so you still want to trade for a guy who had a shot at running the most explosive O in a long time, while putting up inferior # to Henne who in turn had to deal with a prehestoric Offensive philosophy in maybe the slowest O in the league, thank you very much but NO !!

CraigM,

Most of the time I like what you say. If its something not backed up in sound fact I only present those facts. It does not mean one dislikes what you say. Its called "reproof".

Dude at times each and everyone of us here are subject to reproof. So how come when it happens to you, you consider it as an insult? Dude, I like you and have nothing against you. Just stop being so thin-skinned over-sensitive. Geesh..... LOL..........

DB,

WHAT MAKES YOU THE REFREE ON SOUND FACTS ? JUST WRITE YOUR CRAP AND LET PEOPLE HAVE THEIR SAY .LOL

Bring out the smallest Violin in the world and break out the popcorn it`s soap opera time again, seriously guys we all have our own opinions, break down your argument and stick to your guns or haven`t any of you debated a point of view accross in the past ?

fin4life,

Great post @ 12:45 PM! Absolutely marvelous!

Seems someone here would love for me to reply to them. I wont call any names but ALoco already knows who he is! LOL..............

Seriously, read my post at 12:45 and give me some feed back I want to talk Football !!

I love my lil buddy ALoco! He always has much to say without ever really saying anything at all. God bless you my lil wonderful friend! LOL..................

@ DB

All righty then Bro, what FA Q.B. do you like and why, break it down for me and everybody else please feel free to drop some knowledge as well.

DB,

I AM NOT ...I JUST WANT TO SEE THE PHARMACIST T IN YOU TO ACT WITH DIGNITY ,NOT LIKE NJ PHIN FAN .


P.S...PLEASE DON'T ANSWER ME .

Keep up your 'fantasy land' and 'fairy tale' comments and your 'I don't know how some people make it out of the house without some people tying their shoes in the morning'......yeah nothing condescending about that kind of talk.

Keep it up bud!!....you'll get to the point that nobody on here will want to talk to you any more and you can continue to talk to yourself and tell yourself how right you are.

fin4life,

I agree 110% with your 12:45 PM post. Kolb imo, more resembles the 2010 version of AJ Feely than a franchise calibre qb. Coincidentally, we were the ones suckered in by AJ Feely too. LOL..............

CraigM,

I love you man! LOL.............

DB SOUNDS 100 PERCENT LIKE NJ PHIN FAN WHEN HE'S EXCITED .

fin4life,

As you may have noticed I was having the VY man love. But after reading the career stats that band wagon's losing a little steam for me. Only twice in his career has he thrown for 300yds and his career accuracy is slightly under 60%.

After viewing this, Im beginning to see some valid points Jeff Fisher may have had with him outside of character issues. Palmer may be the best qb that may not "really" be available.

Im thinking Brown may ask far more than he knows he will get just to win the pissing contest with Palmer. So all in all, if anything, Im thinking and it's just a longshot, Mcnabb could possibly be the surprise horse that ends up in our stable as a true stop-gap.

But I think it happens only if Mcnabb is released.

fin4, just to bait you, because you seem hungry today... We still don't really 'know' how well Henne would have done on that offense. It's still a guess. The jury is still out as to how much of the problem was the OC, the coach, the personnel around him, or the QB. It would be great if we could feed all that data into a computer and get a nice colorful pie chart of %'s, but we can't. We can surmise Henne will be better with better talent around him, perfectly logical assumption, yet...he still has to prove it. I need to see him play a few games in a row at a high level, not flash for a quarter or two. I don't even want to get into the details of play calling, WC, momentum, hand cuffs ect. Henne still has to show us something, he still has to erase the last few games of 2010 that are currently etched in my memory. If he can do that in 2011, he'll earn a new fan. Seeing is believing.

As for FA QB's, maybe VY (and maybe not for the obvious reasons), but none of the others. Considering the state of cba, I wouldn't draft a QB high this year knowing he is not even likely going to have a chance to compete this year. The FO dug themselves into an unfortunate hole and now they are paying the price. You give Henne a shot, half a season to convince you he will be the QB of the future and if not, you go ALL OUT for a top QB in the next draft.

Chad Henne has shown greater accuracy in his 1 and 3/4's seasons as a starter than VY. Henne also has far more 300yd passing games starting under half the games VY has started.

Proper research can change your mind about a whole lotta things! LOL.........

fin4life,

If Shanahan lets Mcnabb go and we can sign him for somewhere close to the neighborhood of vet minimum. Then Mcnabb as a "stop-gap" and legit starter competition for Henne may be the way to go.

I know everybody is going to give me 100 reasons why they hate this idea but I still insist that VY is an option worth exploring and here`s why.

1) He had a roster bonus of 4.5 due this month it`s on hold until the CBA is settled but I read it has to be paid upon new labor agreement when he will be cut. He also had a base of 8.8 for the season that`s 13.3 Mil nobody is going to pay him, you don`t think that has his attention and serves as all the motivation he needs.

2) His # aren`t the best but he seems to get it done when his head is in the game and he didn`t exactly have the best rec. or T.E.`s to play with either in all fairness.

3) An incredible athlete who has proven he knows what to do with the Football in the NFL, still a big if with Cam. In a new setting were his HC isn`t looking to bench him constantly, which Fisher was then the sky could be the limmit there dislike for each other is well known given Fisher never wanted him it was owner Bud Adams who still lives in Houston, remember they were the Oilers, who fell in love with VY

When Reid and Shanahan don't want the same QB, I don't want him either. I don't even like the idea of a stop gap QB for a year or two, not in the state the fins are in. If you are not really high on some one long term, look to the draft. Invest in someone with long term potential rather than someone close to retirement.

Got a QB need?

Cam Newton is not the answer.
When it comes to complex NFL defenses, Newton will be like a deer in headlights.

Drafting a deer at 15 is highly discouraged.

P.S. I don't propose that I have the answer it's just that everything about Newton says stay away.

Mcnabb will end up in Arz. watch and that fit works best were his big arm and Fitz will put up #

fin4life,

VY did have a better TE than Fasano in Bo Scaife. I would take Scaife over Fasano anyday. He also had one of the better young wr's in the game in Kenny Britt. He also had Justin Gage and Yamon Figurs, those two arent exactly kibbles and bits either.

Lets not even begin to mention CJ in the backfield. They didnt lack very much in offensive firepower at all. Defense may have been the Titans most glaring weakness the last few season.

Still VY never put up great numbers. Im just presenting facts that overcame my own past VY wishlist. Facts cant be totally ignored. Even though the intangible factor does exist VY may now feel he has something to prove.

So it's still sort of mixed for me when considering the known facts vs the intangible future. Bringing him here would truly be a roll of the dice.

@ 0x80,

I`m going to flip your argument on it`s head a little, how many of those short passes he threw at Marshall last year (remember Jets week 3 at last minute to mention one) do you think would have been T.D.`s to D.Jack or J.Mac, for that matter the swing passes out of the back field if instead of throwning it at L.Polite (remember Pitt. last 2 min) or R.Brown would have been tossed to L.MCcoy, you don`t think MCcoy makes him look better by beating everybody to the sticks. You really believe the other two I mention would have been caught from behind like Marshall was, come on 0x80. I could keep going how about Cellek running down the seem instead of Fasano`s slow as s.

That's why even if we dont draft a qb early I favor drafting Stanzi 4th rd. We know he cant start right away but the same can be said for the higher drafted qb's.

The possibility could exist Stanzi could be ready to challenge for the starting position in year 2. You never know.

I love the name "Ricky Stanzi". Just that name puts me in the mind of the old west quickdraw specialists, like Billy the Kid, Jonny Ringo, "Ricky Stanzi"......etc...

You guys see where Im going here....LOL........

The name Ricky Stanzi sounds like a gunslinger. The name Dan Marino sounds fitting of a true gunslinger too. And he was...LOL...

fin4, there are way more variables than meet the eye to debate what you are saying. Different players, different schemes, different passers deciding when and where to throw. Couple that with the fact players are not simply plug and play, particularly at the skill positions. Often a team picks up a FA and they either play better or worse than expected. (Gee we got a deal they were fools to let him go or, dang he isn't playing up to to the level he played on the other team). So again, seeing is believe. Give Henne some more weapons and then lets 'see'.

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