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Mark Ingram? Is he No. 15 overall special?

Why Mark Ingram? What is the facination with this young man?

I get that he is the 2009 Heisman Trophy winner. I get that he is is an upstanding man. I get that he played for a great program at Alabama and in perhaps the most competitive league (SEC). But what is it about him that makes all the so-called draft gurus say he's going to be the Dolphins' choice in the first round of the April 28 draft?

Personally, I believe the Dolphins will select from the school of great need. They will select trade down.

Have I said it often enough? This team needs more picks more than ever with a likely coming rookie wage scale making draftees more valuable and cheaper than ever at a time the Dolphins lack a second round pick. So trading down in the first round and getting back a late second-rounder -- as Miami did last year -- or perhaps and early third-rounder, is a huge necessity.

Failing that, however, would the Dolphins use their pick on the 5-10 and 215-pound Ingram?

There's multiple ways of looking at this. From a historical and philosophical perspective is one way and that one suggests Miami should not go with Ingram.

Last season a alone a swing around NFL backfields revealed only two difference-making backs that were picked in the first round. Those were Adrian Peterson and Chris Johnson.

Other RBs picked that early were not nearly as impressive. Ryan Mathews, Reggie Bush, Knowshon Moreno, Beanie Wells, Donald Brown, and closer to home, Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams were not difference makers despite being former first-round picks.

And in the meantime, running backs that didn't have that type of draft pedigree did make a splash. LeGarrette Blount was undrafted before doing fine work for Tampa Bay as a rookie. Arian Foster led the league in rushing and his pedigree is he was not drafted and toiled on Houston's practice squad before exploding onto the scene.

The point is effective running backs can be found throughout the draft and sometimes as free agents as well. 

Special running backs, of course, are different.

Special ones like Marshall Faulk or Edgerrin James or Peterson are more than worthy of a high pick. But that leads us to the next perspective we must discuss in breaking down the Ingram possibility: Is he special?

He doesn't have great size as established above. He doesn't have great speed as evidenced by his 4.63 time in the combine and then 4.55 time at his Pro Day. By the way, what was going on with this kid around combine time that he was so unimpressive?

OK, well, maybe he's a monster on the field? He was very, very good in 2009 when he earned the trophy. But he was hurt much of 2010. He is a plugger. He merely plug away, plugs away in 5-, 6-, 4-yard bursts to get his yards. The 85-yard runs? The screen passes where he made two guys miss? The run up the middle where he ran around a linebacker and through the chest of a safety?

I didn't see that.

Don't get me wrong. Ingram is a nice player. He's a good player. I'd love for the Dolphins to have him. But I would hate for them to invest the No. 15 pick in the draft to get him.

Please remember that the draft is about getting value as well as a good player for your pick. Think about that because that idea has worked against the Dolphins previously.

I point you to 2008 when the Dolphins could have picked QB Matt Ryan with the first pick. They picked Jake Long. Long is a wonderful player. He's been a Pro Bowl player each of his first three seasons. But he's a left tackle.

He'll never lead a team to a Super Bowl. He'll never have the ball in his hands when the game is decided. He'll never be a difference-maker. So yes, the Dolphins got a great player with their first overall pick in 2008.

But they would have gotten more value if they had chosen Ryan, who is a very good quarterback and might someday do those things I just mentioned that a difference-making player can provide. Again, value can be just as important as production with the draft.

The 15th overall selection, provided Miami doesn't trade, should bring a special player. That pick should go to a difference-maker.

I believe Ingram will be a good platoon back. But a guy opposing defenses will have to game-plan for throughout the next four or five years?

I might need an eye exam. Because I don't see it.

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I AM NUUMIA THE MOON GODDESS. YOU MAY CONSULT ME ON ALL MATTERS. MY WISDOM IS VAST.

Trade our 1st for someones 1st-3rd and 5th next year.

Then trade Crowder and our extra 7th this year for a 4th next year.

This will limit the damage Jeffy can do this year with his Walmart shopping strategy.

**AND**

Next year we'll have TWO - 1st's - a 2nd - TWO 3rd's - TWO 4th's - TWO 5th's - a 6th and a 7th!

Yours Truly

Odin Belecheck!!!!

beerfin, that was just a crazy comment I made while going up and back about the rb's. I said a couple of posts later that I agreed we shouldn't double down on RB. I was just getting carried away there.

You can't catch a Big Fish with a Pooper Scooper!

Mando, Thank you for posting what many of have been thinking 9and maybe posting)
You did leave out Marshawn Lynch as a 1st round difference maker but overall your point was well taken.

o I missed that...Odin, I'd definitely trade Crowder this year for more draft picks its addition by subtraction kinda like Ginn Jr. I think a 5th and 6th rd pick this year and a 5th next year would be enough compensation

Casey Matthews should still be there in the 5th then we got Edds coming back this year and I watched him in College is he's healthy he'll be a great player for us. Better than Crowder IMO I know we haven't seen what he can do yet in the NFL but I think we got a great player last year it was a tough break when he went down

If we were to trade down and trade Crowder & Dobbins I'd go after Martez WIlson around 28 This guy next to Dansby????? He is going to be a beast on Defense IMO

While there is no arguing that the running game is an important part of any Offense, I think to a certain degree you guy`s are overstating it. While Peyton M. did have Faulk and The Edge, what did he win with them, I`ll tell you what nothing. It was in 06 with rookie ( late 1st. round) J.Addai that Manning set up the run via the pass on his way to his best statistical season breaking Marino`s records en route to a SB Title. I saw alot of the Colts that year as I imagine alot of us did and it was the pass setting up the run game.

In 07 the Patriots ran rough shod thru the league using the same philosophy putting any doubts to rest as to whether the Colts approach was a fluke. All they did was end there season undefeated while Brady took down Manning`s records from the previous season. Make no mistake they both used the running game to catch there opponents of guard with the wrong personel on the field but it was dictated and set up by the pass.

The Dolphins need to addess the OL and R.B. positions without question but if we can`t threaten teams down the field then opposing Def. Cor. are going to overload at the line of scrimmage. When we show the ability to go vertical on a consistent basis is when we can start to think of backing the Linebackers and safties off the line of scrimmage opening up lanes for our run game to flourish. So in my opinion it`s basically a marriage you can`t succesfully have one without the other.

And guys the 1st. back ever to benefit from the pass setting up the run was Muncie who was no where near the top ten back`s of the late 70`s to early 80`s. The R.B. of those days were Tony Dorsett, Walter Payton, Billy Simms, Chuck Foreman, John Riggins, Wilbur Montgomery and Freeman Mcneil consistently cracking 1,000

1st Martez Wilson ILB
2nd Kyle Rudolph TE
3rd Greg Little WR
4th Ricky Elmore DE/OLB
5th Greg McElroy QB (Trade Crowder)
5th Alex Green/ Taiwan Jones RB
6th Byron Maxwell DB
7th Ryan Bartholomew C

I KNOW ALL DRAFT PICKS AND WHAT TYPE OF CHEESE YOU SHOULD PAIR WITH A GOOD PINOT NOIR. EVEN IMBECILES HAVE BENEFITED FROM MY VAST WISDOM.

possible 7th/UFA rookie RBs:
Stevan Ridley
Evan Royster
Da'Rel Scott
Damien Berry
Mario Fannin
Allen Bradford
Anthony Allen
Noel Devine
Dion Lewis
Nic Grigsby
Johnny White
John Clay
Vai Taua

One more thing.

I hate the fact that Manning broke any of Marino's records.

Marino played outdoors. Up and down the weather stricken east coast. When he WAS playing at home, a lot of the games were on a terrible field with a baseball diamond to boot.

Manning's dome aided "records" should definitely have an asterisk next to them.

Just one Drunken Vikings opinion..................

Beerphin,

We've had James Grigsby, a linebacker converted to fullback.

Otis Grigsby a Defensive End.

I think we had a David Grigsby at strongside linebacker(who I liked a lot)if that was his name. I know it was something like that.

I'm just wondering if Nic Grigsby is related?

I don't know why, but I always find it interesting hearing about Alumni and relatives. Always thought how freaking awesome it would've been for Brian Griese to lead us back to the promised land!

I know, I know, I'm blabbering. At least I'm not being Dr. Phil Odinseye-lol.......YET!

Grigsby is a definite sleeper but he looks like he has a ton of potential I think we will end up landing another 7th rd pick anyone of those backs could be good pickups but Grigsby is a guy I wouldn't want to let slip cuz a lot of teams will be looking at him if he isn't drafted

also Mario Fannin was a guy that alot of Aurburn fans had really high hopes for but for whatever reason/dispute did not get carries after the 3rd week... But Athletically he is beast ran a 4.37 and he is ripped put up 225 23 times

I'd double up on backs in the 5th or 7th

I KNOW ALL DRAFT PICKS

-Yeah, yeah that's great and all, but I'm looking for lotto numbers. Can you help a guy out or what?

AND WHAT TYPE OF CHEESE YOU SHOULD PAIR WITH A GOOD PINOT NOIR.

-Wow, I'm impressed. That's a great survival skill you got there. It'll come in real handy when I'm driving through "little Beirut" on Detroit's East Side.

-The world economies are in chaos. Milk is $10.00 a gallon, Gas is $5.00. Earthquakes and global warming are ripping the planet apart. But, ah sure, I'm glad you got the wHine and cheese handled.

EVEN IMBECILES HAVE BENEFITED FROM MY VAST WISDOM.

Posted by: NUUMIA THE MOON GODDESS | March 19, 2011 at 06:15 PM


Duh! I feel benefited ALREADY!!!!

Stevan Ridley in the 6th then Dion Lewis in the 7th would be a nice combo

fin4life,

I posted this earlier but it didn't go through.

D A M N, that p i s s e s me off when that HAPPENS!!!! I thought it posted and have been waiting for your reply for almost an hour! I probably hit refresh instead of send-Dooh!-LOL!

Craig and I were just pointing out that the running game is an INTEGRAL part of ANY offense. Passing league or not. You can't have a passing attack at the expense of a legitimate run game.

Also, you Peyton Manning example was a bad one. Addai certainly ain't no Faulk or James. However, upon closer inspection, he played a much larger INTEGRAL part of Manning's 2006 record setting year.

From W i k i:

On November 26, 2006, Addai tied a Colts franchise record for most rushing touchdowns in a game held by Lenny Moore, Lydell Mitchell and Eric Dickerson, as well as the NFL rookie record by rushing for 4 touchdowns against the Philadelphia Eagles. He was named the NFLs "Offensive Rookie of the Month" for November on December 7, 2006.

During the 2006 season, Addai led all rookie running backs in rushing yards with 1,081. He also became the first NFL running back to exceed 1,000 rushing yards without starting a regular-season game.

I'm not being argumentative, I'm just saying Addai(and the run game in general)played a VERY INTEGRAL part of the Indianapolis Colts 2006 success.

PS: While I agree that Muncie had Fouts to thank for his sucess, they BOTH had a pretty decent offensive line to buy gloves for at Christmas time-LOL!

Beerphin,

I thought most pundits have Martez Wilson rated a lot lower than a late first rounder?

Are you advocating a stretch or has he been moving up the boards.

Before you jump all over me, I don't know all that much about him, just curious............

Dang Odin! Stole my thunder... I did some checking up on Addai and was ready to make a similar post. Maybe he wasn't Faulk, but he did have a heck of a year, and he was indeed a 1st round pick, not late rounder.

Some of these arguments suggesting any ol 3rd round back will do these days are not convincing me yet. We've seen in recent years both Brees and Peyton have not their usual stellar season when their top round backs were out. Of course there are some exceptions, like the Packers this year...but when you have a HOF type QB and a great D, it can compensate. Even Rothlisdude had a 1st round back helping him get to the SB, as did NO a year ago.

Long was pretty much a sure thing when he was picked over Ryan, who I remember was scrutinized for throwing his fair share of picks. You can't cry over spilled milk, move on.

I think we go for a guy like Carimi or Pouncey with the first pick to solidify the line and then take a QB/RB with the next pick, whether it's a 2nd rounder that we trade for or our 3rd rounder.

Martez Wilson has moved up the board as the best ILB prospect in the draft. I think if we were somehow to land a trade it'd be back around 27-31 I think Martez would be a quality selection to upgrade ILB as long as we can bargain Crowder out for a couple late rd picks. We got a 5th for Ginn I don't see why Crowder couldn't help a trade back to acquire a 2nd and 5th and 6th in return... maybe more

the great thing about Martez is that he could even transition to the outside 3-4 LOLB also with his size and athleticism. Really productive and in a solid 3-4 we need better LB

6-4 250 ran a 4.42 and put 225 up 23 times

Beerphin,

Mario Fannin supposedly has/had? stamina and endurance issues in addition to holding on to the ball.

This is just something I read.

Other than that, 5'-10 - 230 lbs and a 4.37!

What's not to be intrigued about?

Are you sure on that 4.37? It's not everyday you find a guy that big and strong ripping off 4.37's

A lot of so called experts didn't think LaGarette Blount was worth spending a pick on either. I'm going to have to youtube this guy!

yea Fannin is a sleeper for sure
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d81ea5e1d/2011-combine-workout-Mario-Fannin

SUPER MARIO!

I'd much rather take a shot on someone like him in the 7th then Ingram at 15

6-4 250 ran a 4.42 and put 225 up 23 times

Posted by: beerphin | March 19, 2011 at 07:58 PM


I read this and I'm not sure why, but the only thing I could think to say was this:

When you say Bud!

You say a lot of things nobody else can say.

When you say Budweiser, you've said it all!

Don't know if that made any sense but, 6'-4" - 250/4.42 with 23 reps! DAMN!

I'd much rather take a shot on someone like him in the 7th then Ingram at 15

Posted by: beerphin | March 19, 2011 at 08:16 PM

How can a guy Fannin's size and speed be rated so low?

Just from the measurables I'd be tempted to take a shot in the 7th, the 6th, the 5th..............LOL!

0x80,

Sorry about being a thunderthief!

Being a Dolphin fan during the Marino era, nobody can tell me how important a run game is to the overall success of a team.

Neither can anyone convince me that we were not one bona fide rushing threat away from being a dynasty back then!

I remember back before Barry Sanders retired there was talk of him coming to Miami! What I wouldn't have done to see Barry and Marino in the same backfield wearing Phins uniforms(BIG SIGH!!!!).

The Thunderthief is John Paul Jones's second solo album.

John Paul Jones of course was the Bass/Keyboard player for the legendary Led Zeppelin.

I'm not sure what he was referring to, but I bet I find out.

Enquiring minds want to know..............

He is this years Blount

FINE! Nobody out there!

I guess it's back to practicing up for the Spring Break Musical Extravaganza!

There's a Red House over Yonder................

PS: If either of you two Blondes, or even you, the Brunette, if any of you are "stalking" me on here tonight, I hope at least one of you gets "un-mad" at me before too long-LOL!

He is this years Blount

Posted by: beerphin | March 19, 2011 at 08:57 PM


You said it. When I was reading the info you posted, that's who I started thinking of.

I had Blount on my mock last year as a 5th rounder. Made me feel like I knew what I was talking about.......FOR ONCE!

Fin4life.... I would like to respond to this statement you made at 5:36

"When we show the ability to go vertical on a consistent basis is when we can start to think of backing the Linebackers and safeties off the line of scrimmage opening up lanes for our run game to flourish."

---------------------------------------------

I belief you have pointed out one of the more important issues that Miami must solve NOW... not at their best leisure.

The running game and passing game of any team is inexorably linked to the ability to either freeze or at least back the safeties out of the box. A simple 2 hour sit down with the games Miami lost last year (with exception to Special Teams meltdowns and injury ridden blowouts) reveals that most teams were able to simply set up in cover 2 or some other version of an "Umbrella Zone"... keep everything Miami did in front of them and wait for Henne or Henning to make a mistake.

It also allowed the linebackers to stay right on top of the play stopping our running game flat. Henning blamed it on the lack of "Second level blocking"... that may be somewhat correct but no O-line can answer for 3 or 4 down linemen and up to as man7y as 4 Defensive backs in order to break their RB free.

It is my assertion that Miami inability to show a consistent deep threat with a player or two who can actually catch and not afraid of their own shadow can answer for the lack of running attack, the lack of receiver production because of double teaming and zone defense, O-line play that was doomed from the start but blamed anyway... and most of all, a young QB who was taken right out of anything he knew or had seen before, leaving him wide open to sacks and Interceptions.

I apologize for the long post (Aloco) but am so glad to finally see a subject I feel so strong about brought front and center. I hope Miami recognizes the same and gets another Duper or Moss, Warfield or Irving Fryar... (just to name a few)... speed on the outside will keep defenses from setting into a umbrella. Keeping an offense making dinky dunk plays until they run out of downs or luck....

Great! Nobodies home!

Not even the CaRaaZZies!

None of my "background singers" want to "make up" either...........at least not YET!

Oh well................back to practice.

I got a bad, bad feelin

My baby, She don't love me no more

That's alright ya'll

I still got my Guitar

Look out NOW!!!!

OH THAT IS THE OLD BUDWESER BEER COMERCAL AND THEY ALSO HAD THE GIANT HORSES THAT PULL THE WAGON THEY WERE THE CLIVEDALE HORSES ..........IT IS THE BEST BEER OF AMERICA

((GANG OF DEFEAT )) DEREK IT IS TRUE THEY ARE TO LONG....NEED TO BE FOCUS MORE

derek wanted to say we need a fast wide out to open up the run game. one sentence is all that was neeed.

HAHAHAHA MR. ZILO IT IS TRUE....ALSO I HAVE ASK IF IGRAM HAS 40 YARD DASH TIMES LIKE ARIAN PEDERSONS AND ((NO ANSWER ))

Is there someone with a gun to your head making you read Derek's Post's? Before cracking on him you should learn to spell "need" dumb ass.

We need a speed receiver without a doubt. Arguably our single biggest need.

We also need an upgrade over Vernon "the turnstyle" Carey. I know a lot of people are saying we should move him in to guard. I don't know if he can play guard at this level or not. I do know that he can't play right tackle, at least not anymore. I'm not trying to be funny either. We simply can't go into another season banking on sub par play at right tackle. Maybe not our second biggest need, but close.

Third, we need a center. If Cognito can do it, great. Then of course we'll be needing another guard. One way or the other, the offensive line guru has to get it together.

You settle these issues and take into consideration our maturing, improving defense and we would ALREADY be competitive.

Other than Henne having his breakout season or us "finding" our franchise QB(which I don't think happens this off season), these are our three main issues. Fix these and a lot of things will fall into place.

Zilo,

Could you sum up my post for me.

I like Dereks posts and all, but then I also like your way with words.

Please, do me next, me next, PLEASE!!!!

Speed receivers that are drawing heads right now are Randall Cobb moved up to the 2nd rd maybe 1st... Greg Little and Leonard Hankerson in the 2nd rd

This position that you take is questionable at best, but Ok we see your point about RB's available throughout the draft. Never mind that the Dolphins have rarely, if ever, found a gem deep in the draft. But the whole darn story lost all credibility when you questioned the selection of Jake Long. Do you REALLY think that Matt Ryan would've been the same guy in Miami that he is in Atlanta, especially without an ALL PRO left tackle. I cannot believe that a veteran sportwriter such as yourself forgot the old football axiom about championships being won in the trenches. For nearly two decades I watched the BEST QB in Dolphins history (and maybe NFL history) toil in the OB and then JRS. How many championships did he win without a running game to complement him? How much did that defense help in the middle and late 80's? Ryan may have sold more tickets than Jake Long, but you are way off on questioning the pick an ALL PRO left tackle compares quite well with Matt Ryan.

odinseye you did much better, said three different things in half the time:

we need to upgrade Vernon, then center or guard depending where cognito plays, and then we need a franchise QB. fix these issues and everything else falls into place.

gotta run now...my girl is itching for me to start the saturday night 'chores' if you know what i mean.

Need to resign Ronnie Brown and Tony McDaniel... We should definitely draft atleast two RB also but later RDs this year is so deep at RB. If you resign Brown you he still has great value and could be traded for future draft picks at the very least. I would hate to see a guy with that value go for nothing in return. Which brings up another point Soliai's contract is most likely overpaying and if they were able to grab a guy like Phil Taylor or Stephen Paea with the 2nd rd trade back. Soliai could be traded as well for great value like a 1st and 3rd or 2nd and 3rd w/ a player.

Wouldn't waste a 1st.round pick on ingram, he's too slow. There are better running backs available that will be free agents.
Williams ( Carolina )
Foster ( Houston )won the rushing title.
Bradshaw (NYG )
Benson (cinc. )

Defensive players this year in the 1st and 2nd rd look better than any prospects i've seen in a decade... W/ Trade back estimated pick around
1st (29th) Martez Wilson/ Ryan Kerrigan ILB/OLB
2nd (42nd) Stephen Paea/ Phil Taylor NT

Top pick needs to be a receiver, good Q.B.S in F.A.
Hasselback or Collins might be able to light a fire under Henne's cross eyed ass until the new regime can't draft a Q.B. in 2012.
But according to the Mayan calender that's when we will have ARMEGEDDON!

Dumping on Carey is a favorite pastime for a lot of folks but the fact of the matter is that the OL was DRAMATICALLY less effective when he went down. No fan (unless they happen to be Stevie Wonder) could have failed to see it. Sure, an upgrade there would be great but Carey has been steadier than he is portrayed by some.

Nice list of free agent backs but what makes anyone think they'll even BE any free agency this year? Not looking likely right now.

Long was a great pick. If we got a Long on every first pick I would be thrilled.

At this stage of our team the metric to judge our drafters is how many starters we get from each class. At that level we have been okay but not great. Ingram would be a starter. If we get three offensive starters from the draft that would be outstanding.

Ingram would be a solid base for our draft. That said, I would still re-sign R&R if possible. The remaining picks would go for offensive linemen and a pass catching TE.

Unlikely a QB worth the pick reaches #15 although if Newton or Gabbert reached us I would take them instead of Ingram and use the third for a RB.

Free agency will be critical for us.

Beware the fallacy of the retrospectoscope. It is always easy to justify reasoning looking backwards once you know the answer. But unfortunately we have to live prospectively. Very few people were thinking Matt Ryan was a surefire hit (and had he come to the Dolphins with the people around him, the coaches and the OC we had, I doubt he would have had the success he did). We can all think of first round QB who people thought would be great who turned to trash (Leaf anybody?).

The stupid "trade down" philosophy is what got us Jared Odrick instead of
Dez Bryant.

I'd rather one great player than 3 average ones.

Fortunately after this season with Henne again at the helm it will be all over for this stooge crew after another miserable season.

Pete,

Sorry Dude, that's where you're wrong.

You're right about the drop off when Carey went down. The thing is, we went from pitiful to unacceptable. McQuistan? C'mon MAN!

I watched Carey MYSELF! I saw it! He would Ole' defenders right on by. He would actually wave sometimes when they'd blow by. I swear to God, one time I actually saw him standing there smiling with a bag of peanuts in one hand and waving at the defender with the other.

A couple of times, the only reason he made a move towards the defender was in the hopes that the guy would hold him up and stop him from falling over.

Sure we didn't have anything better than Carey at right tackle, but what's that ACTUALLY SAYING? Not much!

I'm tired of hearing the excuse that he's the best thing we got at right tackle. You guys can be happy with that. I saw the guy play for quite a few seasons, I want something a lot better!!!!

agree on ingram but ricky williams not having an impact? 1,853 yards 4.8 avg per carry in 2002 for a mediocre team? blount running for 1,007 yards was a big impact? I know the point you are trying to make is dont draft a running back high because it's easier to find one later in the draft - but leave ricky alone - it isnt his fault wannstadt drove him into the ground - having 775 carries over 2 years is what drove williams to sabotage himself off the field

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