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There are no prototypes at RB, plus more from experts

Running backs have been a big topic of discussion on the Miami Herald site lately and that continues today.

My column in today's newspaper looks, in part, at Mark Ingram Jr. and how the Dolphins should not discount him based on what the naked eye suggests are his drawbacks.

I've been lukewarm on Ingram until now because, frankly, he doesn't look impressive to me. He's not big. He's not fast. He's just, just, productive.

Then I got three sources on the phone. I reached out to personnel men -- one of whom is still in the NFL, all of whom own Super Bowl rings -- and they told me not to caught up in searching for a prototype running back.

There are none.

Running backs, unlike all the other positions, do not need to come in one particular shape or size to play well. Even the Dolphins, a team whose draft principles is picking for prototype size, understand that doesn't necessarily apply to running back.

At least I hope they do. One of the people I spoke with has talked with Jeff Ireland and he's certain Ireland understands running backs are the exception in the hunt for prototypical size.

Just look at some that succeeded. Chris Johnson, arguably the most dangerous runner in the NFL the past two years, is tall and lanky. He also happens to be fast as a spy plane. Marion Barber is compact and stocky and not very fast. Darren McFadden is big and loose in the hips and fast. Curtis Martin weighed 207 pounds. John Riggins weighed 237 pounds. Barry Sanders was 5-9 and he looked nothing like 5-9 Emmitt Smith.

They were or are all very good to great. There was not one prototype among them.

I tell you more about Ingram in the column. I also share with you the opinions of the experts on other players available in the draft. Hint: They aren't sold on picking offense if the best playmaker on the board is a defender.

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0x80,

Give it up buddy. Everything we tell them they already know. They purposely refuse to consider it. Rehashing it over and over wont change thier minds.

Whomever drafts Ingram, Im sure he'll make them look like geniuses for do so. Even if it isnt the Miami Dolphins. Still if it is us, and Ingram's a big hit, these doubters here will gladly allow themselves to be force fed thier own bs.

As corny as it may sound, in the end we all just want to see whatever players be highly successful and our team winning lots of games. LOL.........

Breed BTW your "LOL" after you make a statement is condescending like no one knows as much as you and you are undervaluing THEIR opinion!

Any RB that was never hurt in college probably plays like Ted 'where are the sidelines' Ginn.

OX80,


MARK INGRAM HAD A ...A HIP SURGERY IN 2009 .........GOOGLE IT BOOBOO MY FOOT .

NBC SPORTS REPORTING THAT TEAM ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOT INGRAM SURGERIES AND HIS............. DURABILTY

Aloco, if you googled it and found that then kindly post the link here. What I found was a bruise lat time I checked.

DB @ 11:35,

I say you are just as entitled to make whatever choice you want for a draft pick.

I have said countless times that I am one of the minority of people that can't see any value to a Ingram at 15 choice. The draft mags, mocks o plenty and the pundits and prognosticators seem to happily paint an "X" in the Miami #15 Draft box.

I don't think they are actually taking a strong enough look at our team as a whole and are simply taking the "easy fit" way of looking at the Fins needs.

From the outside, the Fins have Ronnie and Ricky and not much else. First they are older and need contracts that the Fins don't want to issue. Secondly here comes the concensus #1 RB...let's plug him in and call it a good fit.

Not so fast I say. Miami lacks dynamic team speed in a big way. The years of BP's cro magnon "Bigger is always better" drafting has us behind other teams in overall footspeed.

Ingram doesn't correct this he adds to the problem of another guy that can't run. All 10 yard turbo bursting aside, he's slow.

Ingram is touted as a workhorse back and yet he didn't stay healthy all through school? Leshoure seems the more sturdy guy and others like Alex Green have more weight to be the workhorse type back and can be had later than Ingram.

These are the biggest reasons why we should draft elsewhere if trapped at 15.

Just as you and 0x80 promote Ingram as being a solid #15 choice if he turns out to be, I am sure you will remind me all the time. When Ingram ends up being a regular RB then I will return the fav. You guys have said adnauseum that trade back would be your choices so I got that.

Cheers,

finsarmegeddon,

For one I support a trade back scenario even more than selecting Ingram at #15. Even if it only netted us an extra 3rd rd'er.

Two, I dont control what others feel, just like otthers dont control what I feel. Only I control what I feel. Only others control what they feel.

If my using LOL gives you permission to allow yourself to feel condescended upon. Thats an issue you need to address with yourself because only you have power over you. Geesh! LOL.............

DYYING CREEP WANTS US TI DRAFT SICK PEOPLE AND GIVE THEM ROSS'S MONEY .

Aloco, when you google, you have to actually open the page and read it, you can't go by the page that gives the links and briefs, one shows a hip surgery comment, but its for a different player, open it and you'll see.

0x80 @ 11:47,

Find me any credible source that said that Adrian Peterson should not be a 1st round pick??

Any credible source...

Cheers,

from the NFL draft bible .com - on Ingram

Cons: Despite the accolades and pedigree, Ingram is not an elite athlete. He is not going to wow anyone at the NFL Scouting Combine in terms of his measurables and will not remind anyone of Adrian Peterson, who is considered by many to be the standard for NFL running backs. His frame appears to be maxed out so he probably won’t get much bigger even as he matures. Moreover, don’t expect Ingram to be much of a home run threat on the NFL level as he lacks elite, long speed. This Crimson Tide runner did wear down some as the season went on and was not nearly as effective in his final two pre-BCS Bowl contests as he was during most of his award-winning season. Ingram ran for a season-low 30 yards (1.9 yards per carry) in Alabama’s regular season finale at Auburn and was limited to just 4.0 yards per carry (28 carries, 113 yards) against Florida in the SEC Championship game. This came after he averaged 5.5 yards per carry or better in 10 of the Tide’s first 11 games of the 2009 campaign.

0X80;;;

1- GOOGLE... DID MARK INGRAM HAD A HIP INGUREY ?

2- CLICK ON THE FORTH RESUTT TO GOT TO ,,,DRAFT BREAKDOWN.... SCRLL DOWN TO....DURABILITY ...AND READ IT ...HIP INJUREY IN 2009 ...............YOU GOT TO TELL ME YOU R SORRY TO SAY OTHERWISE .

Rob-OC,

Thats exactly why Im completely bamboozled why you guys keep making such an issue of this. Ireland himself has publically stated above all else they would like to gain a 2nd rd pick.

They may even settle for trading back and getting an extra 3rd rd pick. Its more likely we will trade out of the #15 pick than it is we wont. So will you guys please stop making more of this Ingram thing than needs to be.

Will ya' please? LOL..............

DD,

Im in for the "Anti-Mock"! LOL

I think we should do one for what we thing Ireland and Co will do and then one just based of best talent and watch how those players develop.

Cheers,

TWO BIG ISSUES INGRAM WILL SLIDE TO SECONND ROUND;;;


1- HIS RUNNING STYLE NOT CONDUCIVE FOR STAYING HEAKTHY.

2- HE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO AVOID THE BIG HIT .


3- DYING CREEP LOVES HIM

Loco,
0x80 is correct. Ingram had his knee scoped and a hip pointer not hip surgery. You aplogise to him!!

HEALTHY

apologise

Rob, I expressed my feelings very simply

FINS...GO TO.... DRAFT BREAKDOWN AND READ THEY SAY INGRAM HAD A HIP NJURY //////////////

Rob @ 12:08... what? huh? did you even read what I said???

You state that Ingrams injury is such a big deal and refuse to even acknowledge its been healed, yet you conveniently avoid that fact that Adrian Peterson had a far worse injury in a broken collarbone, among other injuries, but it was ok to take him in the first round.

What is a credible source? Any source? Or only one that you find credible? Here is one source expessing doubt about taking Peterson in the first round, much that same as you are in taking Ingram in the first round:

http://out-route.gloriousnoise.com/2007/01/whoever_drafts_adrian_peterson_is_making.php

DB @ 12:11,

Ingram who?

Cheers,

HIP SURGERY .

Ingram is good to go, Mallet will not work out on the Dolphins system!

Aloco,

Send the actual link you are seeing, otherwise you have nothing. You have to actually read the page not just the links. Post here the actual link to the page that confirms what you are saying, otherwise there is nothing to say.

finsarmegeddon,

Exactly why Im not overwhelmed about staying at #15 and prefer the tradeback scenario far more. The top rated rb sitting there at #15 is clearly the best value available.

Some here say take Aldon Smith. Problem is he would play Misi's position. That a very difficult position to master in year one and of all who were drafted at that position, Misi was the most productive.

Even the kid from Michigan(Graham) whom everyone swore was going to tear the league apart his rookie season. Was as quite as a church mouse. Even Hughes couldnt even get into Indy's backup rotation at the position.

This is why I say everyone suggesting anything else other than Ingram if forced to pick at #15, are not considering all of the facts available. I even hear Ty Smith, who one, will be long gone and two, we dont need a OT.

Ingram is just that guy by process of elimination if forced to pick at #15.

Breed, pay attention!!!!1 Idid not say it made anyone feel anything . Nothing to do with feelings!!! I just said,
Breed BTW your "LOL" after you make a statement is condescending like no one knows as much as you and you are undervaluing THEIR opinion!
Is condescending - get it mister word twister!!

FROM ALL THE RB'S IN THE DRAFT FROM LESHOURE TO TO THOMAS WE ARE WILLING TO TAKE INGRAM THE GREAT TO GIVE COMPANY TO ODRICK ON THE BENCH AND WITH CHAD.P ,MR ROSS SHOULD BE VERY HAPPY TO GIVE THEM HIS MONEY /

LOL@ Rob-OC 12:19 pm.

FINSARAMGDON,


RE ...LOL OF THE DYING CREEP ....I TOLD HIM EARLY NOT USE IT BUT HE REFUSE TO LISTEN ...I DON'T BLAME HIM ,HJE NEVER BEEN TO SCHOOL IN HIS LIFE .

Fins...this is for you...we both know opinions are a dime a dozen:

If, McShay said, Miami does select Ingram, they’ll get the only running back he grades out high enough to go in the first round. His scouting report:

“I know he isn’t your ideal measurable guy, if you will. He doesn’t have the prototypical body, and he doesn’t run the fast 40 time and all that. But the way he runs, his pad level, his low center of gravity, his ability to create yards after contact, he has such a great sense of the cutback lanes, and more so than anybody else in that class, he feels what’s going to happen ahead of time. He just has that innate sense about him.

“I have no problem with him coming off the board in the first 20 picks; if he falls a little bit, the team that gets him in the last 12 picks of the first round could wind up getting a steal.

According to ESPN Stats & Information, in fact, Ingram gained 42.7 percent of his yards last season (374 of 875) after first contact. If you're an NFL team predicting short- and long-term success, how much do you allow strength and instincts to compensate for speed in the final analysis?

Here's what ESPN analyst Todd McShay wrote this week in reaffirming Ingram's status as the best running back in the draft: "He is a very tough runner who gets stronger as games wear on. He shows the burst to turn the corner on film, his vision and patience are excellent, and he runs with great balance. Those things are enough to make him worthy of a mid-to-late first-round pick regardless of his 40 time."

Finsarmegeddon,

From Merriam Wesbter:

Definition of CONDESCENDING

: showing or characterized by a patronizing or superior attitude toward others

I dont see LOL listed in that definition anywhere. You seem to be the only here feeling condescended upon by LOL. LOL.............

GO TO .... WWW.DRAFT BREAKDOWN.COM/SCOUTING-REPORT-MARK- INGRAM

finsarmegeddon,

Im also not going to allow others here to control me by telling me what Im allowed or not allowed to do according to them. Neither will I do that to anyone else.

So get used to LOL or just dont read my post. Geesh! LOL..................

0x80-

I can see that point , is there anything that says what his success is once he gets to the second level , assuming our line can open a hole?

BEST THING ABOUT THIS BLOG IS: "THAT WE'RE ALL ONE GREAT BIG DYSFUNCTIONAL FAMILY'! LOL...............................

ANY ONRE ENDS HIS POTS WITH..... LOL DESERV THE NAME CREEP,THE DYING CREEP .

ANY ONE WHO ENDS HIS POSTS

LOL, GEESH, OMG , ROTFLMAO, WTF. GTFO, YOUR F -ING RIGHT!

CREEP? I SEE SOMEONE NEEDS A NEW VOCABULARY. THAT WORD WENT OUT OF STYLE WITH THE END OF REAGAN-OMICS! LOL................

THAT IS FUNNY FINSARMEGEDDON....................

nO OFFENSE TO ANY OF YOU BUT YOU GUYS ARE ALRIGHT.

EXCEPT FOR LOCO'S GOOGLE ABILITIES!!! lol

IN YOUR CASE , DYING CREEP IS FITTING,R=THERE'S NO TIME LIMIT FOR THE WORD CREEP WHEN IT'S USED FOR YOU IN MIND .

0x80,

This is what you call a "credible article?"

Its like an overgrown couple of paragraphs where the writer CLEARLY admits "someone will grab Peterson in the early to mid first round".

I cut and pasted it just so others can view it. This is your attempt to knock down a REAL proto-type RB? This sounds like an arguement we would have on this blog. The first comment under the guys "article" is like dude a boken clavicle is a chronic inury?

Here is the anti Adrian Peterson credible "article" in all its glory folks...

The draft declarations are starting to roll in: JaMarcus Russell, Dwayne Jarrett, and, now, Adrian Peterson is expected to announce his eligibility for the NFL Draft (or, as I like to call it, The Best Sporting Weekend That Doesn't Involve Any Actual Athletic Competition).

Considering how tight-assed NFL teams get about the draft -- your stock can spoil faster than Britney Spears' looks if you so much as jaywalk -- it's pretty incredible that someone will grab Peterson in the early-to-mid first round. Peterson has missed an awful lot of games in his college career due to multiple injuries. We're not talking about one sort of serious injury like a torn ACL. We're talking about chronic injuries. A sequence of injuries. A cadre of injuries, if you will. OK, so it's only really been a couple of injuries, but that's a trend nonetheless.

I don't wish injury on anyone, but you just kind of expect Peterson to miss six weeks in his rookie year with a high ankle sprain or turf toe or some unfortunate groin ailment. In short, Adrian Peterson is probably going to be about as durable as Fred Taylor.

Wow! Adrian Peterson is NOT worthy of 1st round pick?

That article doesn't say he won't be a 1st rounder he says he basically wouldnt chose AP due to injury... try again if you like 0x80.

Cheers,

Gtg, c-u guys later. Omg, rotflmao. Wtf? Creep, LOL..............

Rob, I expressed my feelings very simply

Hey, this should make you all happy, its a quick read on the flaws of the top 10. It kinda proves that the player someone else wants is probably wrong, which makes every one of use right in a way, nobody is worth there draft position!:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andrew_perloff/03/29/draft-red-flags/index.html

Aloco... I give up...I've given you two chances to actually sent the link to the precise webpage that says Ingram had hip surgery. No such page exists if you don't have the actual link to it.

This is not a link to a webpage:
WWW.DRAFT BREAKDOWN.COM/SCOUTING-REPORT-MARK- INGRAM

It only brings up a bunch of links. Forget it. Ingram never had hip surgery.

Rob in OC, is weed legal there? 'cause you're smoking it, or better yet, having a cigar with Havana Club! Lol.

Rob, I expressed my feelings very simply

0x80,

I have seen you pull out that McShay article and cut and paste the quotes a ton!

The thing is, McShay, Kiper and ANY true scout, GM, analyist worth his salt shows a CONS side too. How come we never see that about your guy Ingram?

Could it be that you are just trying to show ONLY the positives McShay had in his TOTAL assessment of Ingram?

I guess it was all just milk and honey for Ingram? The guy has no downside...first ever in history of the draft. I kid, I kid... but it is true isn't it?

Cheers,

0x80,

I copy and pasted it for the lazy people here.


The day Andrew Luck announced he was going back to Stanford, the top of the 2011 NFL Draft became far less certain. The field is loaded with talented players, but they all have red flags. Here's a closer look at the issues that are giving teams pause as the draft approaches:

PRINCE AMUKAMARA, CB, NEBRASKA

Red Flag: Not tough mentally; no interceptions his senior season.

Amukamara can explain the lack of interceptions by claiming defenses avoided him all year. But look at the highlights of Amukamara's matchup with Oklahoma State's Justin Blackmon. They didn't shy away from throwing at Amukamara, and the few times he did got beat, he had trouble recovering.

DA'QUAN BOWERS, DE, Clemson

Red Flag: Junior year was far more productive than rest of his career; injury concerns.

If Bowers could fight off double-teams and total 15.5 sacks his junior year, why did he have only four sacks combined in his freshman and sophomore seasons? Injuries were a contributing factor, and those questions have emerged again for the talented pass-rusher. SI.com's Peter King reported in his Monday column that Bowers failed at least two team physicals on his knee at the combine. The defensive end will have many questions to answer at Clemson's pro day Friday.

MARCELL DAREUS, DT, Alabama

Red Flag: Didn't dominate in two seasons at Alabama (66 tackles, 11 sacks combined).

Dareus' role was to fill gaps and occupy blockers at Alabama. But some wonder if he took plays off and if he's explosive enough to merit one of the top three picks in the draft. Don't even bother comparing him to last year's No. 2 pick, Ndamukong Suh, who appears to be a once-in-a-decade type of defensive tackle.

NICK FAIRLEY, DT, Auburn

Red Flag: One-year wonder; not a hard worker.

Fairley has gained a reputation as having a soft body during the lead up to the draft, possibly because his workouts are limited by a shoulder injury he suffered during the season. That might be OK if he had a larger body of work teams could evaluate, but he doesn't.

BLAINE GABBERT, QB, Missouri

Red Flag: Played in a spread offense at Missouri; put up pedestrian numbers (16 TDs, 7 INTs) last season.

Sam Bradford probably made Gabbert some money by proving quarterbacks could transition quickly from a spread offense to the pro game. But even in what is traditionally a quarterback-friendly system, Gabbert had only three games with 300 or more yards passing. Chase Daniel put up record numbers at Missouri, but he was throwing to future NFL receivers, while Gabbert didn't have many weapons.

A.J. GREEN, WR, Georgia

Red Flag: Slight build; high 4.5 in the 40.

Green is not going to strike fear into the hearts of defenses like the Lions' Calvin Johnson does. He's not fast enough to burn teams downfield. And he won't be able to out-physical cornerbacks like the Texans' Andre Johnson can. Those are lofty comparisons -- Johnson and Johnson are tough to match -- but if Green goes as high as some people have projected, he had better be at least close.

JULIO JONES, WR, Alabama

Red Flag: Doesn't get separation; drops passes.

Jones blew everyone away with a 4.39 40 at the combine, but he doesn't play to that speed on the field. He made some tremendous catches in traffic, partially because he doesn't create enough space between himself and the defender. And he had some mental lapses, dropping easy balls and coasting against defenses he should have crushed.

VON MILLER, OLB, Texas A&M

Red Flag: Small for a linebacker; didn't put up big numbers against top competition.

Miller is 6-foot-2½, 237 pounds and will play a position where players are usually 6-4, 250-260. Can he stop the run? Does it matter if he gets after the quarterback like he did at Texas A&M? Some scouts have doubts about how Miller matched up with elite offensive linemen in college.

CAM NEWTON, QB, Auburn

Red Flag: Played in a spread offense; scrambling quarterbacks don't project well into the NFL.

Throw out all the scrambling he did at Auburn, because that doesn't fit the prototype for success in the NFL. Teams are more focused on his ability to run a pro offense. Coaches who don't have a lot of time to develop a guy -- like Buffalo's Chan Gailey -- may consider Newton too risky.

PATRICK PETERSON, CB, LSU

Red Flag: Too big to be a shut-down cornerback.

Peterson reportedly got down to 212 pounds for the combine, but will play around 220 next season -- and he's not going to get smaller as he physically matures. He can't match fellow draft prospect Prince Amukamara's cover skills. Peterson might end up being a very good NFL safety, which could be disappointing to a team that takes him in the top five, as the shelf life on safeties is less than that of cornerbacks.

TYRON SMITH, OT, USC

Red Flag: Didn't play left tackle in college.

Smith has a good chance of being the first tackle taken, but he might need some time to develop. A team taking him in the top 10 would probably want to plug him right into the line, even if he's not ready.

Rob, what are Ingram's downsides, been watching him for 2 years. Please elaborate!

Rob, way too many words there. You just never understood my point in that original post you were responding to..which had absolutely NOTHING to do with whether Peterson deserved to be a first round pick. You have run off on a long tangent.

Simply put, you speak of Ingrams injury as though it is permanent, while its clearly been healed, so its not a valid criticism anymore. I merely pointed out that AP had a FAR WORSE injury than Ingram did, it didn't stop AP from going first or being a great back, he healed, just like Ingram has. Thats all. That link was just showing you that AP had his share of injuries too. There were 20 I could have picked from that spoke of AP's collarbone injury.

redsky,

you expressed your feelings very simply...

I read that, multiple times... I was typing about the Ingram convo.

I am glad you expressed your feeling man.

Cheers,

Rob, um that was really just a response to FINSARMAGEDDON who cut and posted only some cons, so hey, somebody had to retort with a post of only some pro's!

Anyway, I have to say I'm with DyingBreed here. You guys just don't get it. This debate is only about if we have to pick at 15. Half of you suggest some player that has almost no chance of being there, like Julio Jones, or really want to reach for a guy pegged to go at 28 and take him at 15, and claim that has more value. Or you want a defensive guy that would only bump out a defensive guy we only just drafted. Don't get it, sorry.

Let the argument be simple, IF we pick at 15 we'll just wait and see who is still available and who makes sense, and see how that pick turns out compared to Ingram. No way this debate gets resolved until the end of the 2011 season really.

0x80, DB, redsky,

You guys can continue to wallow in the merits of one Mark "I got X-ray vison" Ingram!

He is 10 foot tall and bullet proof and his angry running style and healed injuries will propel him to stellar NFL greatness.

I will pull back, for now, until the draft reveals just how crazy good the REAL team scouts, GMs and coaches deem where Mr. Ingrams value is.

I am the one out on the crazy tree limb as ALL the McShays of the world love the guy. Many peg him for Miami at #15.

Tick tock, tick tock, time will tell.

Cheers,

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