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There are no prototypes at RB, plus more from experts

Running backs have been a big topic of discussion on the Miami Herald site lately and that continues today.

My column in today's newspaper looks, in part, at Mark Ingram Jr. and how the Dolphins should not discount him based on what the naked eye suggests are his drawbacks.

I've been lukewarm on Ingram until now because, frankly, he doesn't look impressive to me. He's not big. He's not fast. He's just, just, productive.

Then I got three sources on the phone. I reached out to personnel men -- one of whom is still in the NFL, all of whom own Super Bowl rings -- and they told me not to caught up in searching for a prototype running back.

There are none.

Running backs, unlike all the other positions, do not need to come in one particular shape or size to play well. Even the Dolphins, a team whose draft principles is picking for prototype size, understand that doesn't necessarily apply to running back.

At least I hope they do. One of the people I spoke with has talked with Jeff Ireland and he's certain Ireland understands running backs are the exception in the hunt for prototypical size.

Just look at some that succeeded. Chris Johnson, arguably the most dangerous runner in the NFL the past two years, is tall and lanky. He also happens to be fast as a spy plane. Marion Barber is compact and stocky and not very fast. Darren McFadden is big and loose in the hips and fast. Curtis Martin weighed 207 pounds. John Riggins weighed 237 pounds. Barry Sanders was 5-9 and he looked nothing like 5-9 Emmitt Smith.

They were or are all very good to great. There was not one prototype among them.

I tell you more about Ingram in the column. I also share with you the opinions of the experts on other players available in the draft. Hint: They aren't sold on picking offense if the best playmaker on the board is a defender.

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Rob...

Read my post @ 1:05 then please tell us your value choice at 15.

Thanks.

0x80,

Go back over the many recent blogs...

You have pulled that same McShay says "All sunshine" for Ingram at LEAST 3-4X.

This is just another time.

Cheers,

Rob, Yes I have pulled that many times. As you can see others have just posted cons and not the pro's. Today it was merely a counter attack. In the past, it was only to show the reasons why those pundits have him at 15 to begin with. A couple here have said they were big fans of Mcshay, one of the few they respected, yet they were down on Ingram, so I wanted to show them the guy they respected felt Ingram was worthy of a #1. Let his own words do the talking.

0x80,

Just to summarize...

You say that you and DB state that because Ingram is at the top (#1) on nearly all draft mags, talking heads and draftnik RB charts and the Fins need a back that makes him have good value.

I contend that he has been over-inflated value wise by the media. His size, speed will be weighed and the real draft will reveal what teams truly think of him.

That about fair enough?

Cheers,

As we can see by that link I just posted to the SI article on the top 10. Its real easy to make every player look like a potential bust!

Rob,

Nope, not fair enough. Not even close. The problem is you just assume you are the only thinking person here and everybody else just blindly listens to the pundits and nothing more. That is both false and condescending, if not arrogant mind you.

I've made my case here countless times why we really need a solid all purpose back. I've read the scouting reports on top 7 or so backs and checked out their highlight videos. In this case, judging from all that I gathered in, I just happened to concur with the pundits. I do believe he is the most versatile back in this draft and the one that will help us the most. I'm not going to even attempt to try to compare a college player with a pro or ex pro, but comparing him to whats available, yes I do like him the best.

Secondly Rob,

Saying the draft will reveal what the teams really think of him is totally irrelevent. Teams are dead wrong more often than they are dead right. The only thing that will reveal anything worthwhile is Ingrams performance in the NFL.

Ingram could fall to the 5th round, who knows, means jack if he plays I like I believe he will. Actually I think some of you are so hell bent on 40 time that it blinds you to any other quality he may have.

0x80,

In response to your post @ 1:10.

If forced to pick I would chose:

Mallet: I feel he has the abilities I want in a QB, his play in college is easily the equal of Gabbert and Newton from a raw numbers standpoint. Played in Pro attack. Played in SEC! Played with less overall talent than teams that beat his. Most ready to play right away.

Cons: He has the rumors and I am not privy to be in on those interviews. I am not sure how I would feel if I got to interview him. He does have a lot of teamates and ex coaches sticking up for him to be the leaderless drug jerk that some paint him as. He is slow afoot and that I can't hide or fix.

Seems Miami had good luck with a drug accused, gun slinger type that couldn't run a lick a while back. Easy now, I am not saying he is next Marino...just has some similar traits.

The reason I draft him at 15 is I believe he will be gone before we can draft him later. Kaepernick would be my fallback QB drafted later.

Other totally acceptable and fairly realistic to be at 15... OT Ty Smith, DE/OLB Aldon Smith, C/G Mike Pouncey.

My super sleeper NT Phil Taylor. Big, big man that moves well and dominates when he wants. Kind of reminds me of Jimmy J's first pick DT Darryl Gardener.

All choices are in order.

Cheers,

Well, nothing like a vigorous debate. My time is up though.

I'm going to try really hard to stay off the Ingram debate for now because you all know where I'm coming from and I'm sure you are all as sick of hearing me talk about it as I am typing about it.

I'll check back in the morning to see if any poison arrows came my way.

Peace all, out...

0x80,

How can you even begin to say that where a guy gets drafted doesn't reflect his true value as teams take turns choosing players?

The VALUE is totally related to where he is selected.

His PERFORMANCE ends up dictating if the team was right or not in choosing a guy there.

Also, if you factor in that you could wait and still get a guy 2-3 or 4 rounds later and he shows up big it simply means you knew how to Value that pick properly and got other players as well as that correctly targeted player by the furthest round back you could get him.

It only takes one team to fall in love.

Tyson Alualu was a prime example. Most said serious reach. From what I know of his rookie season he aquited himeslf nicely and teams or "experts" can't talk bad of the pick now.

If they could have waited and got Tyson in a later round then they could have had another player in the forst round and still landed Tyson.

Trouble is... you never know.

You dragged Ingrams 40 time into the your post at 1:27? Why don't you just leave it at he's slow and move on? You keep mentioning it now not me.

Cheers,

0x80,

No arrows from me...always just facts and opinions to support my thoughts of making the Fins a better football team.

Even if heated, I still realize that you are just another fan that sees things different than myself.

This home stretch is always the hardest time period before drafts.

The players that the Fins select need to be contributors or have great groomable talent so we can close the gap on a playoff spot.

Cheers,

Back to the grind Monday...

Have a good one Fin Nation!

Cheers,

I tell y'all what, Tony Nathan was 'productive'. We need us some game breakers and OL support, especially if we need to win on the ground for lack of a certifried passing game.

for the 1st time EVER !! I say trade down. Simply b/c he have no 2nd rounder, & though there is quality late I say lack of a 2nd round pick will hurt. here is what teh fins NNED to do Get Leshoure, Dj Williams, for QB Stanzi, Ponder, or Dalton if avail. get other RB's Ryan Williams, or Scott of UMD. WR's Hankerson, or Titus young, or Torry SMith of UMD. then look into other TE's & LB's & Sfaety help. Keep Henne, resign Mcdaniel to shore up that dline. Slaton in FA may not b ea bad move if he is cheap. Cut Ricky, bring back ronnie for the cheap if he is willing.

NO INGRAM! 15 has to be a sure fire game changer, and Mark Ingram isnt the guy. Your lined up with the 15th pick in the NATION and you draft Marki Ingram? Really, theres no one better than that at 15? In ALL of America!? Need takes a back seat to value. O-line would even be solid, plus the last time I checked Ronnie Brown is still interested in being a Dolphin.

I Wonder why Miami's offensive line was so horrible last year? Seeing how Tony(Fist pumper)Sparono was a Offensive line coach before he was head coach...Ohh, never mind I just answered my own question........

I SEA THAT THE GANG OF DEFEET MUST BE DOONE WITH THERE FARM WORK,OR IS IT THAT THERE UNEMPLOYED?WHICH ONE IS IT CUBEN?

OR ARE YOU IN THE BAHAMAS WITH LIPPY THE LION COWHER THE CHINA MAN AND OPRAH?ENJOY YOUR VACATION CUBAN IVE GOT TO GO TO WORK TO PAY FOR YUOR VACTATION.

i hope jeff ireland is working long hours getting ready for the draft. also hope we have new team doctors to evaluate health of players we aquire. we cant afford to continue missing on high draft selections and free agents. hope ingram isnt our pick at 15;rb's can be had in fa or later rounds. we missed the boat on grabbing 2 tight ends in last years draft as we accumulated 8 linebackers. i'll put the picks of our bloggers over ireland the past 2 years. after all, we passed on dez,earl thomas,gronkowski and hernandez not to mention brandon spikes and brandon tate. geez.

LMAOROTF @ Lil Aloco................

GREG Z.
GREAT POST ..........
PLEASE NO DYING CREEP PICKS PLUS HIRING A REAL DOCTORS NOT A DENTIST .

lol@ Lil cuban............

LMAOROTF @ Lil Cuban .

we had 2 guys with mystery illnesses last year who missed alot of time yet no doctors report on what it was; i.a.francis and john jerry both missed several weeks with no explanation. we drafted 2 guys with broken legs(odrick and carroll)then pick up an injured al harris while releasing a healthy jason allen;a good ST who was our only db who could catch. we gave away camarillo,who never dropped a ball for sapp???

Greg Z, Do you see where the problem is?????, The F.O and the HC, Look for a 3 and 13 season next year, Or a 1 and 7 in a strike shorten season, We are the Lions of the AFC.......

get a QB, and good things will follow

"With the 15th pick in the 1st round of the 2011 NFL draft, the Miami Dolphins select.......Ray Finkle.

Sparano Comments on the selection: Well, you know, really, I think you can't have enough good KR's. He's got a really good leg, I mean, he really does. I mean, I think it's gonna help us with dis & dat. Ya know?

Back to you in the studio!

"Though he continues to hang his kicks tothe left,cause the laces's are faceing him"..

i have been hearing that jerry jones has a man crush on mark ingram. can you imagine what would happen if dallas picked ingram before anyone else got a chance to take him? i guess he reminds so many people of emmit smith that jones has jumped on him as well.

DM, Jerry(Liver spots)Jones is a Reptillian leader, Dont you believe "Home" ????

cuban,
definitely agree with you on jones. he is the head snake.

O=Line help, O-Line help, O-Line help !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We never needed a running back, we had them. The constant O-Line shuffling KILLED us! Look at '08 and '09. Even with Magoo's wacky offensive play-calling, our run game was strong. Why waste a pick this year on running back? Get Ricky signed as soon as the legal s..t is over!

Hardcore, Notice that last two years the fins O-line Suked???, Who's the head coach???, A guy that was a O-line guy... This is the future for the mighty air-breathers... IMHO..

Hard core, How many more years must Miami improve there O-Line, We'rnt they the highest paid unit last year???(Beleive it or not, they were).......

harcore,
although i agree with you on the o-line last year i don't think you can completely ignore the talent at the running back position in this year's draft. besides, there aren't a lot of guys at our positions of need, pulling guard and center, who can come in and start and have any kind of meaningful impact. even wisniewski isn't the complete package at center and he is the best on the board at the position. at guard it's even more difficult. when you look at where some of these guys are slated to go it looks like they are going there more out of need than because they are that good. watkins looks good but i wouldn't want us to take him until at least the 3rd rd because of his age. ijalana is being projected as a tackle. boling and shciling are probably going to need some time to develop and, even then, may end up only being backups or less than stellar at their positions. o'dowd is going to get killed at the center position. the guy moves like he has cement in his feet. can't handle speed. so, while we do have needs on the o-line i don't know if a feeding frenzy is exactly warranted with the talent available.

We need Rb's just from a bodies point of view. Anyone who doesn't think we do needs their head examined.

We have ONE signed RB heading into next year & he is coming off an Achilles tear. So, not only can you expect at least 2 RB's drafted, expect a veteran to be signed once FA opens.

You can't go into an off-season with 1 RB and NOT expect the team to address the position HEAVILY.

Joe, Dont forget who the starting QB is Chad(Neck fat)Henne, He doesnt scare to many secondaries IMHO, Actually I thik they cram more guys in the box because he's the QB and knowing that he's a INT machine(EG Clev,Detriot, Buff Last year)They have No respect for him nor should be givin respect.....

Guys, Who was the last team in 4 weeks to lose to Clev,Detriot,and buff at home?????

Let me repost that, Who is the "Only team" in history to lose to Detroit,Cleve,and Buff. at home in one season????????

cuban and hardcore,
i would agree with both of your comments on henne and the o-line and that is why, when i post my "anti-mock" draft i will have a running back, quarterback and an offensive lineman in the first four rounds.

cuban,
we continue to set records.

Guys my point being that as the ex-President bush would say " A regime change" needs to be made...., I guess we'll continue to say they need this; and that till that,untill "Change" happends

Cuban, I agree. I don't have faith in Sparano or Ireland. It's only a matter of time before they get their walking papers.

With the Jets & Pats in this division, I personally think they have overstayed their welcome already. Status quo with this regime & their current track record, in this division, will only lead to 3rd & 4th place finishes.

Sadly, I think some fans are Ok with this.

The Gang of defeet is growing members.

No Aloco, I have always been a member. But, I am in the gang of realism, not denial.

we all love our fins but ireland/sparano should definitely have left with their leader,bill parcells. all 3 seemed to be aloof and never really warmed up to the fans who pay their salaries. decisions were made with no one held accountable because we didnt know who made the decision. there was always plausible deniability(like with the pat white,pat turner picks). why so many secrets? how about ireland/ross flying across the country to find a coach while sparano waits. i hope for the best but think we are cursed until we clean house.

Greg, I Pray that maybe a "Billzillaoire" Will buy the mighty air-breathers but fdrom what I understand Donald(hair piece)Trump is thinking abou running for Prez, Who else can buy out Mr.Hollywood out there that we'd welcome with open arms??? What';s Boone Pickens up to???? He's gootabe burnt out on OSU football by now, Dont you think??????

Being a member of G.O.D(Gang of Defeat)or as Lil Aloco would say"GANG OF DEFEET" is not a badge of shame but as a badge of a poster that knows what's going on.....LOL @ lil Alco..

There is nothing wrong with being a realist. In fact, when things do not pan out as an optimist would hope, there is no sense of let down or disappointment.

If you have realistic expectations in life you will never be let down.

joe,

agree WITH YOUR LAST POST@ 12;10 PM.


SORRY, ARMANDO IS FAKING ME .TRYING TO BE FUNNY .

LOL AT THEW GANG OF DEFEET, WHILE COLECTING UNEMPLOYMNT CHCEKS THEY BASH TGHE FINS WHIKLE SCECRECTLTY WISHING THAT LIPPY THE LION KNUON AS THE CHINA MAN BECOMES THE HEAD COACH AND THE BAKINI KLAD OPRAH IS THE GM, LOL AT THE GANG OF DEFEET.

YOU SEE JOE, ARMANDO IS AMUSING HIMSELF .VERY FUNNY .

WHY DOS AMANDO CONTUE TO FAKE ME?

armando is the man .

I want to trade back but if Ingram is there at when N.England picks they will take him with one of their 2 first rounders for sure and he will kill us twice a year for 10 years.

Good day guys....

Here's the part that makes NO sense to me. I've read most of the comments and the previaling thought from some of the guys is that Ingram isn't good value at 15. Huh? We have one running back signed for next season, who we can't count on, most of the mocks have Ingram as a mid-first round pick and everybody has him ranked as the best running back in the draft but somehow guys are still able to say 'he's not good value'. That's a tough one to figure out! If picking up ANY back late, late or undrafted is the answer, how come teams still draft guys in the first round. Answer...it doesn't happen that much, contrary to what everyone says. Take a look at the number of NEW backs in the league EVERY year and then look at how many are a success.....very, very few. Yes, the guy with the Texans was a success last year but can you say for CERTAINTY that he will be a success this year? Or next? They guy has had injury problems in his career and that's why he wasn't drafted.

The other part I find HILARIOUS is, that a lot of the guy that are saying 'Ingram isn't good value at 15' are also saying 'pick Mallett at 15'. Huh? Interesting....so they want us to pick a guy at 15, that most experts don't even have going in the first round and some don't even have going in the SECOND round. I guess these guys are just smarter than everybody else. Probably the same guys who SWORE by Brady Quinn the year he came out and then hid when the pick didn't pan out.

the pats will be gunning for the jets and vice-versa. we have become irrelevant; more like the bills at this point. the bills did achieve more than us with a small payroll and less talent. in fact,they scored 30 pts more than we did.

i say no to ingram because rb's are plentiful in later rounds or FA;no to mallet because he is immobile in the pocket(we already got one of those). mallet and henne lack leadership qualities;players still look to penne.

DC,

I want to give a shout out to you today too. When we spoke last week one of the guys you wanted the team to draft was Amakamura, the second rated DB in this draft. Now granted he wasn't the first guy you wanted bt you said we have to pick this guy if he drops. I argued that CB does not have the same need that other positions do on the team. Did you also know that this kid has ZERO ints on the team last year in his senior season? Granted he is a good shutdown corner but I believe we already have that guy on the team in Sean Smith. I would also argue that between Smith, Davis, Will Allen, Carroll and Sapp that our cornerback play should be in pretty good hands again this season. Just wanted to mention that.

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