The other side of the Carson Palmer coin

There is always another side to the proverbial coin.

When I discuss the interest I've perceived from the Dolphins for Cincinnati quarterback Carson Palmer -- based on conversations I've had with folks within the organization -- I always am very careful to point out this account only applies to Miami's interest.

I cannot tell you exactly what will happen when the lockout is lifted and players are allowed to be traded because I am not certain what the Bengals will do about Palmer. And they also get a vote. Yes, I believe the Bengals have offered small hints here and there they might be willing to part with Palmer for the right price.

But I haven't actually talked to the Bengals, I don't know what the price would be, and I have no clue what the Dolphins would think of that price.

That is the other side of the coin. And Geoff "Butch" Hobson, who was so good at covering the Bengals for so long the team waved the white flag and actually hired him (If you can't beat them, hire them), says the trade winds for Palmer are so still, there are no trade winds.

Not for the third-round pick Dan Marino suggested he would give. Not for anything any of you are willing to part with, based on my reading of your comments.

"... If [the Dolphins] think it’s going to take Dan Marino’s suggested third-round pick, they should take a drug test," Hobson wrote recently. "Mike Brown giving up Palmer for only a third-rounder? Never happen. Brown giving up Palmer period? Maybe less than never."

I sat next to Hobson during the NFL annual meetings in New Orleans. He mentioned more than once to me he thinks Palmer is simply outstanding. He said watching him during practices, he's seen Palmer make every single throw imaginable -- dashing the theory Palmer is too injured and diminished to make a difference any more. He also, on more than one occasion, compared Palmer to Jim Plunkett.

Plunkett, like Palmer, was a former No. 1 overall pick. Plunkett, like Palmer, had his share of struggles with a struggling franchise that drafted him. And Plunkett was traded to the Oakland Raiders where he won a couple of Super Bowl titles.

If that analogy is accurate, Palmer would be exactly the right veteran QB to chase once the NFL labor situation is settled.

I suppose that's the third side of the coin. Um, yeah, the third side of the coin.

Comments

[Kris]

Fin4Life....you beat me to it....but I believe your right and DB is putting out some bad information regarding the Palmer situation....

To add to the Tiki example....The Giants still had to release him of his contractual obligations....he could not just come back into the league as a FA....

[DyingBreed]

fin4life,

Still it profits Cincy nothing to play hardball with Palmer. Still they get nothing to show from it but the braggadocious rights of being penaltory against Palmer's refusal to play for them.

[Darryl Dunphy]

...Gotta roll for a few. Dying if you are still here in awhile I would love to continue this debate..

[DyingBreed]

DD,

Winning the nfc west and then actually having to play a real opponent in the 1st rd of the playoffs are two entirely different beasts. LOL.........

[DyingBreed]

Does anyone know if Palmer has ever even won a playoff game? If not, then truly what purpose would he serve us?

We've already fully proven over the years that we can do one and done playoff appearances like none other. LOL.........

[fin4life]

Yeah Kris, for a moment there I was thinking if maybe something had changed but with no new CBA how could they ? I imagine that if it were that simple you`d see alot of guys do it, the only way out is when your drafted because you can sit out the whole year and go thru the draft process again, remember that`s what Bo Kackson did to Tampa in 85 before going thru the entire draft prcess in 86 and becoming a Raider, Tampa got zero return on there #1 overall selection by the way. The Raiders got Bo for a 7th rounder for the 5 seasons he played.

[fin4life]

DB,

Palmer I think gets Cicy to the big game in 05 if K.Von Offelmen doesn`t take his cheap shot, it`s them in the 05 dance vs. Seattle and hoisting it instead of Pitt. So Kimo Von Offelmen the DT that gave Pitt. it`s 05 crown in my estimation

[Kris]

True Fin4Life....another example of this would be when a DISGRUNTLED player gets FRANCHISED....to show they normally threaten to sit-out the full season...but always come back by week 8 or so to ensure they credit for the season and can move on next year with no strings attached.....

[fin4life]

good point Kris

[DyingBreed]

Palmer's 11yr Cincy Career:

4 seasons of 2-14
2 seasons of 4-12
1 season of 7-9
1 season of 10-6
1 season of 11-5

Also Palmer has only 2 seasons of leading Cincy to the playoffs. He was one and done on both occasions.

This pretty is the kind of career you would presently expect Chad Henne to have. So after viewing this do you still think Palmer's worth overpaying for?

http://bengals.com/team/history.html

[DyingBreed]

Correction:

That's 2 seasons of 2-12 and 4 seasons of 4-12 for Palmer.

[DyingBreed]

There were also 2 seasons of 8-8 by Palmer I ommitted.

[DyingBreed]

Palmer's only had two winning seasons his entire pro career. I dont count the two 6-6 seasons as "winning seasons" lol.

[DyingBreed]

8-8

[DyingBreed]

I think many of us, including Armando, are falling in love with what's a household name(Palmer) and not closely examining his body of work(wins-losses).

[Kris]

Breed....I think it is displayed potential...remember...displaying potential is what leads to becomming a household name.....

Even the casual football fan knows who Carson Palmer is.....because he has flashed brilliance at his postion...the year he got injured....many believe was HIS/the Bengals year.....

Now on the flip side...many of my football buddies have asked me on many an occasion...."who's the Dolphins QB?

It pisses me off every time.....

That and having to tell them who our COACH is....AGAIN

[fin4life]

DB,

I agree completly about everybody falling for the new flavor of the week but in your run down of his career you have to remember 1 thing. The Bengals were a doormat before he got there, beyond a joke and 3 years in he takes the AFC. North finnishing 11-5 and I tell you they were the darkhorse moving into the 05 post season. That year everybodies darling were defending champ N.E. or home field having Den. but Cincy was red hot. I tell you that hit he takes from Kimo was cheap and designed to do what it did, if not look at the replay, he never recovered fully from it.

[redsky]

Frankly guys, there is no QB out there that's going to make us a SB winner. If there was their team wouldn't give them up! So anyone we get is either stopgap, or to keep the fans in the stadium....just my thoughts, I'm BBQing steaks.....and corn....

[fin4life]

Don`t forget in 05 the Steelers in a Div. game with Cincy for the crown get beat at home it`s why they play that playoff game in Cincy. In other words they took the Div. from eventual SB Champ Pitt.

[fin4life]

Redsky, you couldn`t be anymore correct my friend!!

[Kris]

Redsky....I don't think that anybody disputes the FA QB brought in will be the stop-gap....

Speaking for myself....I just want it to be the right guy....an aggressive move...the likes of Dansby and Marshall...

Not a loser move like....more Cowboys rejects getting burned in coverage....ST....and the run D.....

I still think we can make strong playoff pushes for the next 2-3 years while a young QB learns the game....albiet Henne, Mallet, or somebody else of the FO choosing.....

[Kris]

Winning breeds winning.....

just as surely as losing does the same....

[redsky]

Kris, I love your hope and passion! Speaking of burned in coverage, I've got to watch my steaks on the grill! We'll talk later, apologies and thanks!

[Rich]

The Bengals were bad before Palmer and they'll continue to be bad after he's gone. Are some of you completely unaware this is one of the most dysfunctional and cheap organizations in ALL of professional sports?

There is NO quarterback (or coach for that matter) who is able to overcome that culture and win in Cincinnati consistently. To not see the bigger picture there is woefully ignorant of the situation.

[Kris]

Rich....good post....I hope DB reads that......

[0x80]

Can anyone justify the logic in investing in a stop gap QB past his prime for a team desperately needing a QB of the future, and let alone during a time when the upcoming season is fully or partially in jeapordy?

I can't.

In an ideal situation, the old rookie bench warmer while being tutored plan is fine, this team though is well beyond an ideal situation.

Henne starts in 2011. If we draft a QB, he takes over if Henne fails, on the job training. Come 2012, you evaluate what you got, whether you are keeping Henne or going full throttle for a #1 QB. By drafting a QB this year, between him and Henne you should be guaranteed at least a long term backup. If either prove to be starter material then great, if not, you dump one and go all out for a #1 QB in 2012.

That plan just seems a far wiser investment of time and rescources.

[Kris]

Redsky....enjoy the steaks....I am sure there is a certain poster on here who would love to here all about the steaks orgin, the cut of steak, what thecows were fed....and most importantly how they taste.....be prepared to give a full report on that No Later than Tommrow....

[Kris]

0x80....your first paragraph is the EXACT definition of a stop-gap QB.....

Not sure what further explanation you need....you pretty much covered all the bases.....

[JUSTIN CREDIBLE]

ricky williams on espn

[UTdolfan]

Don't know if it makes much difference in opinions on the possibility of the Dolphins being interested in Palmer, but he is 31, not 33.

[DyingBreed]

Kris,

I did read Rich's post. Bengals you may can argue are a terrible franchise period. But you can also counter argue against Palmer that in Who's-your-mama he had one of the league's best duo of wr's for a good little stretch and did very little with it as far as wins and losses.

[DyingBreed]

Guys there really isnt much out there that's a significant upgrade over Chad Henne. We maybe better served drafting Mallet 1st rd and giving Henne a 3yr extension before the season's done with.

This way as Mallet grows more experienced he can push and eventually overtake Henne for the starting job. If Henne doesnt progress as expected. Lets face it, we're not going very far as a team within the next 2 years no matter who's brought in.

So lets just hold onto the draft picks and used them more effectively. Capiche?

[DyingBreed]

Palmer had Who's-yo-mama and Ocho-down-the-draino and still did very little in terms of wins and losses.

One 2-14's, four 4-12's, one 7-9, and three 8-8 seasons in 9yrs isnt a very good qb win loss record. He's had only 2 winning seasons as starting qb(10-6 and 11-5).

[odinseye]

Taking the kids smelt dipping. They start running around midnight.

It's my 6 year old's first time, he doesn't know what he's in for!

I don't even care for smelt much, but I can't pass up the chance for another bonding experience like this.

Too bad, if my 15 year old had his drivers license, I could get hammered!

ValHalla!!!!

[dm1dolphan]

this just in: armando fell asleep on his keyboard. he should be awake sometime monday morning to write a new blog.

[fin4life]

odin,

What the hell is smelt dipping or is that like slang for cow tipping or something ? I gotta know the curiosity is killing me.

[ALoco]

i jusr read an article about a few things must do to help qb chad henne reach his potencial ;

1-fortify the OL
2-DRAFT A TE
3-DRAFT MARK INGRAM
4-RESTOCK THE RB CORPS ....REMEMBER 2009 ? WHEN HENNE HAD A GREAT YEAR DUE TO RB'S ?
5-BRING IN SOME COMPETITION

THESE ARE VALID POINTS TO HELP OUR QB TO REAH THE PLYOFFS .

[ALoco]

A FEW THUNGS FINS MUST DO TO HELP

[DyingBreed]

ALoco,

Whats Armando smoking in wanting us to overpay for a qb(Palmer) Who's only had 2 winning seasons his entire 11yr career. He did have 2 playoff appearances, both one and done.

Why do we need a qb like that?

[ALoco]

THE MIAMI DOLPHINS WILL SIGN DEANGLO WILLIAM ONE THE LOCKOUT IS LIFTED ,,,,,,THE INTERST IS MUTUAL BETWEEN THE TWO SIDES ...

DENANGLO WILLIAM IS IN MAIME SINCE YESTERDAY TO RAISE MONEY FOR CHARITY .

[ALoco]

DB....

PALMER IS JUST GOOD FOR BLOG HITS ,NOT FOR FOR A TEAM LIKE THE FINS ,WE ARE GOING TO LOOK INTO THE FUTURE AND SIGN A REAL QB WHO CAN MAKE US A PLAYOFF TEAM NOT A 3-13 TEAM CINC .

PS...ARMANDO DOESN'T CARE FOR THE DOLPHINS,JHE ONLY CARES ABOUT HIMESELF AND THE BUSCK WITH HIS MIDGET IN HIS RADIO SHOW .

[redsky]

Fin4life, smelt dipping is a type of fishing, they run from the lake up the tributaries between 10pm and 2am. You can net them.

[UTdolfan]

DB,

Unless I'm mistaken, Carson Palmer is 31, not 33, and has played in the league 8 years, not 11. He was the 1st pick in the 2003 draft.

[DyingBreed]

UT,

I checked that, youre right. Still he has only 2 winning seasons with the Bengals in 8yrs. Still not worth overpaying for

[DyingBreed]

Carson Palmer

2003- Rookie season did not play
2004- 8-8
2005- 11-5
2006- 8-8
2007- 7-9
2008- 4-12
2009- 10-6
2010- 4-12

We've been as good or slightly better over the last 8yrs without Palmer. Look at his record, wgy do we need him?

[0x80]

DB, you say CP is not worth over paying for? I say he is not even worth under paying for. This team doesn't need to waste time and expense investing in a stop gap. Thats old fashioned. Lets bring in draftees or FAs that have there upside ahead of them, not behind them.

[redsky]

DyingB, 0x80, I agree with you completely! I'd bring Palmer in if the price is right....as Dan Marino said, a 3rd rounder, that says a lot right there!!!! Would not pay him any more than I would a 3rd rounder!!!!

[fin4life]

I got two questios for Ireland/Sparano if they are even contemplating bringing in CP

1) I`ve been saying this now for 2 days he`s never fully returned to form after the 05 injury, plays protecting his knee`s instead of looking to make plays downfield causing mistakes that lead to turn overs, "mentally damaged"

2) Do TS/JI really wanna pick up the next Favre headache, think about it Palmer tends to never even complete his seasons either always has small injuries forcing him to miss time and how far South will the team go if this guy falls apart ?

THIS IS THE TYPE OF MOVE THAT TENDS TO SET FRANCHISES EVEN FURTHER BACK, JUST ASK CHILDRESS !!!!!

[fin4life]

Redsky thanks for explaining it to me(smelt dipping), thought maybe it was code for something

[DyingBreed]

Redsky,

See my post @12:08AM. Dude, Palmer's win loss over the his career looks like something Chad Henne could easily accomplish over 7 starting season. So why would we even wanna give up a 3rd rd'er for that.

By the looks of Palmer's career win loss record we already have this in Henne. Remember, the man we're bringing him in to replace?

[fin4life]

DB @1:26

AGREE 100% DITTO !!!!!

[DyingBreed]

fin4life,

Smelt roe is also used to garnish sushi. LOL......

[fin4life]

DB, To be honest I read smelt dipping and thought he was talking about cow tipping,LOL, I have no idea about that stuff, to much big city and not enough out doors I guess.

[fin4life]

If forced to live in the outdoors I guess I`d be the guy looking to take some cows head off with a pocket knife before it would even cross my mind that I could catch fish with a net.

[DyingBreed]

Can anyone name 1 hof qb that's ever came from USC? Mark Sanchez, after only 2 years in the league and appearing in back to back afc championship games, may easily be USC's most successful qb ever.

From the West Coast Stanford has been far more successful with major NFL success from thier qb's. Right off the tip of my tongue I can name Jim Plunkett and John Elway.

USC qb's either have mild nfl success or none at all. Right now Palmer stands in the "mild succes" category at best.

[fin4life]

Ofcourse given yesterday that only means I would have to come back here and give a detailed description of the cow, so we could accuratly figure out what type of cow it was, were there from, how there fed ect... sheesh ! now that`s a headache !LOL!

[DyingBreed]

fin4life,

Im a city bred and raised boy too. But mostly what Ive heard of smelt was them being used as bait fish. But they are edible by human too, usually pan fried whole.

But I do know that the roe is used as garnish for sushi.

[fin4life]

There better known for there R.B.`s than anything O.J. Simpson, Marcus Allen, Reggie Bush, Lendalle White ect... also great L.B.`s

[fin4life]

The biggest busts at WR in the NFL have all come from USC, I could name 4 of the top of my head and I`m talking monster flops !

[fin4life]

Later DB !