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The other side of the Carson Palmer coin

There is always another side to the proverbial coin.

When I discuss the interest I've perceived from the Dolphins for Cincinnati quarterback Carson Palmer -- based on conversations I've had with folks within the organization -- I always am very careful to point out this account only applies to Miami's interest.

I cannot tell you exactly what will happen when the lockout is lifted and players are allowed to be traded because I am not certain what the Bengals will do about Palmer. And they also get a vote. Yes, I believe the Bengals have offered small hints here and there they might be willing to part with Palmer for the right price.

But I haven't actually talked to the Bengals, I don't know what the price would be, and I have no clue what the Dolphins would think of that price.

That is the other side of the coin. And Geoff "Butch" Hobson, who was so good at covering the Bengals for so long the team waved the white flag and actually hired him (If you can't beat them, hire them), says the trade winds for Palmer are so still, there are no trade winds.

Not for the third-round pick Dan Marino suggested he would give. Not for anything any of you are willing to part with, based on my reading of your comments.

"... If [the Dolphins] think it’s going to take Dan Marino’s suggested third-round pick, they should take a drug test," Hobson wrote recently. "Mike Brown giving up Palmer for only a third-rounder? Never happen. Brown giving up Palmer period? Maybe less than never."

I sat next to Hobson during the NFL annual meetings in New Orleans. He mentioned more than once to me he thinks Palmer is simply outstanding. He said watching him during practices, he's seen Palmer make every single throw imaginable -- dashing the theory Palmer is too injured and diminished to make a difference any more. He also, on more than one occasion, compared Palmer to Jim Plunkett.

Plunkett, like Palmer, was a former No. 1 overall pick. Plunkett, like Palmer, had his share of struggles with a struggling franchise that drafted him. And Plunkett was traded to the Oakland Raiders where he won a couple of Super Bowl titles.

If that analogy is accurate, Palmer would be exactly the right veteran QB to chase once the NFL labor situation is settled.

I suppose that's the third side of the coin. Um, yeah, the third side of the coin.

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DB,


REMEMBER IN KRIS'S CASE,ARMANDO CAME OUT AND PLAYED 007 ON US AND SAID I AM NOT SO AND SO BUT HE ADDRESED ME SAYING DON'T CLAIM YOURSELF AS SAINT B/C IN PAST YOU DID SUCH THING .......


THAT WAS ACT ONE WHICH WE SAW MANY TIMES BUT IN MY CASE ,IT'S GOING FOR A YEAR AND I DIDN'T CARE UNTIL THAT LAST TIME.


I TARGETED HIM ,IF HE COMES NOW AND SAY DC DID IT OR ROB DID IT ,THESE PEOPLE WILL COME OUT AND DENY IT LIKE LAST NIGHT WITH D-DENSE ,WHEN HE TRIED TI STICK TO HIM AND FAILED .

BOTTOM LINE, HE'S THE GUY WHO FAKE MOST OF THE TIME TO GET HITS AND WATCH US FIGHT LIKE DONKEYS AMONG OURSELVES AND HE'S WATCHING FROM A FAR ............ REMEMBER HE DIDN'T FINISH HIGH SCHOOL .HIS IQ IS LACKING .

Paisano, the offensive lines that ptotect the 3 QB's you mentioned are not exactly lousy.

DB,

CP WANTS TO BE IN THE NEWS ,HE KNOWS HE'S OUT AS A PLAYER ,BUT I DON'T THINK OF HIM AS AN OC CAPACITY WILL BENFIT HENNE ...CP MUST LOOK ELSE WHERE .............HENNE SHOULD BE OUT OF CP'S SHADOW .

ALoco,

Youre absolutely right! If Armando can keep us fighting against each other he creates mega hits just from all of the backbiting alone.

Youve hit the nail right on the head. Armando himself is behind a lot of this. It's all about blog hits and money!

...Who am I to say what CP should do. But if I were looking for a sign that said "hang it up" The 3 play drive during the Tennessee game, and a baketball injury. Would probably be spelled out in bright neon.

This is too bad. I think if Penne could have stayed healthy. The team would have been better. Perhaps not in the long run. But last year. Of course, we would still be in the same prediciment. Not trust in Henne, and looking for a quarterback.

I think the Dolphins are looking at CP as more of an assistant to the present qb coach who is Carl Dorrell.

DB,

ALSO THE HERALD DOSN'T HAVE THE PERSONAL TO CONTROL THIS SITE,THEY R NOT LIKE THE SS WHERE THERE R FEW PEOPLE WORK ALL THE TIME TO IMPROVE THEIR SITE,HERE IT'S DIFFERENT .ONE SIZE FITS ALL .

DB,

I HOPE I AM NOT TALKING TO ARMANDO .LOL

COULD BE ,SINCE CARL DORRELL IS NEW OF BEING A QB COACH,HIS FIRST TIME TO BE ONE .

All I know is that if Ireland gave up a 2nd rd pick for Carson Palmer, Palmer better be the starter in 2011 no matter what.

Henne says he wont stay in Miami if he thinks he doesnt have a realistic chance to be a starter. So if Ireland pays a 2nd rd pick for Palmer, Henne's realistic chance to be a starter in Miami doesnt exist.

Thats why even with Palmer we better draft what we think is a stud at qb. We cant go after a late rd longterm project that may not pan out.

Palmer's only a 2-3yrs bandaid at our starter position. So we had better have a young guy waiting in the wings and 100% ready to go. He also better be stud worthy.

In reality Armando is most likely trying to be diplomatic by not exposing anyone. If he really wanted to generate blog hits I don't think he do it by impersonating an existing blogger. He'd create a name or two and create controversial posts. I really can't believe for a second its him. For anyone who truly believes he is doing that, I can't imagine why you'd continue posting on his blog.

The other thing is, I've been watching for two days now incredulously how many people are misinterpreting posts. It's scary. People really do twist things totally into something else. I think I've seen about a dozen examples of that lately. Armando never accused d-dense of anything...he merely stated d-dense can say what he wants using his own name as opposed to those impersonating others. Somehow a handful of bloggers misconstrued that into Armando identifying d-dense as the culprit. Read back and you'll see.

Maybe its the water, but I'm beginning to think there are some seriously mentally challenged folks here. I mean seriously. The reading comprehension skills have been below 5th grade level. It's true. People jumping to all kinds of conclusions based on nothing more than their imagination. Skewer me if you want.

With all the shenanigans that go on here ate times, I'm surprised I even come back.

ALoco,

I guarantee Im not Armando. I bash Armando all the time for his unwarranted bias against Ricky Williams. Seems Armando will take any opportunity he can to bash Ricky.

Yet he acts if he and JT are sleeping together. LOL..........

ASSUMING , NO

VY
ORTON
FLYNN
AND KOLB .... I WOULD TAKE ALL OF THESE PEOPLE A HEAD OF PALMER WITH HIS 14 MILLION A YEAR WITH KNEE AND ELBOW INJURES AND 3-13 RECORD LAST YEAR .....BACALA

Dying Breed...Your point @ 9:36 is right on point. Henne has one year on his contract. So unless he is traded or released he has no say in if he wants out. What it all comes down to is if the Phins believe one of these quarterbacks this year is the right choice to be the next "it boy"

Being that Henne is under contract. Even if he loses his job to a vet. We have our backup. It would do nothing for Henne to mail it in if he was called into action. He would be on stage for any prospective teams in his free agency. So in theory. The Phins do not have to draft a quarterback this year if we were to go out and trade for a guy like Palmer, or whoever.

Now if they are sold on a talent, they should take him. I guess that is the question.

OX80...............

YOU KILLING ME... THEN IF HE WANTS TO BE A DIPLOMATE WHY HE DIDN'T DO THE SAME IN KRIS'S CASE 2 WEEKS A GO ?

SECOND Q....WHY FAKING ALOCO EVERY NIGHT FOR A YEAR ?

Q 3,....... WHY HE DELETED FEW FAKED POSTS FOR ME LAST NIGHT FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE THE FAKING STARTED ? I AM SURE B/C I TARGETED HIM WHERE I WAS RIGHT .


0x80,

The misinterpretation with d-dense seems purposeful with Armando. He left it very ambiguous. Seem that was his intent.

But you are correct there's an abundance of misinterpretation going on here. Sometimes other posters see what they wanna see and post only what they wanna believe regarding posts from others.

Aloco, all those are different issues really. I'm saying I've seen so many people misconstruing posts lately its alarming. The post says one thing and others jump to all kinds of other conclusions simply based on their imagination.

I have no idea why he let things go on for so long. If you really truly believe Armando is faking you, then it would be ludicrous for you to keep supporting his blog.

I COME BACK HERE B/C I DO LIKE IT HERE ,TO SEE YOU GUYS GOING AT IT WITH OX80,DB,ROB,DD,FIN,KRIS ,...IT'S ALL GOOD ,ALLOF IT GOOD TO READ .

0X80,

IT'S NOT HIS BLOG....HE CAN CHANGE JOBS TOMORROW AND THE BLOG WILL BE HERE ..I WISH HIM WELL

The rights to Thigpen to the Titans for the rights to Vince Young straight up. Thats a reasonably fair trade only slightly in Miami`s favor. Theyre both on tryouts.

I have really been confused on which qn to take if we trade down in the 1st rd either Kaepernick or Mallet. Im not sure which would have a bigger upside. Obviously it all depends on who falls as to who we might trade with but my latest mock has us tradeing down to Seattle at 25 (I think they want Locker real bad) and getting their 2nd rd pick.

Im going to reach a little bit in my mock and draft a QB in the 1st rd

1st- Arkansas QB Ryan Mallet (with trade down). For some reason I just have a feeling that he is going to be a solid QB given the time and proper coaching. I really like Kaepernick but I think Mallet fits the fins better.

2nd- TCU OG Marcus Cannon- the pulling OG we need

3rd- Kansas ST RB Daniel Thomas- Is a very powerful runner that can power his way through blocks

4th- Mich ST ILB Greg Jones- Could help with ST and also fill in for Crowder since he is always injured

5th- Nevada TE Virgil Green- Might be a little low for him but if he drops this low we should definitely snatch him up.

6th- Auburn RB Mario Fannin- Great speed/reciever could be a Sproles type player

7th BPA

Aloco, while he is here, it is his blog, his name, getting credit for all the blog hits. I would not support someone that I believed was impersonating me.

DD,

I say we have to draft a qb now because we need to be able to give him as much time as possible to be ready to start when his time comes.

Palmer will be in the stage where qb begin to have a huge decline by his 3rd season here. Rodgers sat for 3 seasons behind Favre. Im thinking possibly Mallet could have a Rogers-esque impact if he has 3 seasons to sit behind a Palmer.

Plus the older a guy gets the more easily they seem to get injured. If Palmer got injured in 2012 and we didnt draft a qb in 2011 plus Henne has bolted in fa. Then what, call up Ryan Leaf?

DB, no no no, we don't call Ryan Leaf...we call Jamarcus Russell. His agent says he's changed and ready. (uh huh)

OX80,

I THINK IT'S NOT FAIR TO ARMANDO TO Talk about him and he's not here ....let's move on to football..............

bk,

Im thinking all of this bs surrounding Mallet is a huge smokescreen. Im still liking the chances of Mallet coming off the draft board before Gabbert.

I think its highly likely Mallet could be taken before Gabbert. Watch and see.

We could probably get Jamarcus for a cheeseburger and an 8th round pick.

Im not totally against Palmer, but I dont want the team to pay higher than a 2012 3rd rd'er for him and use our 1st rd pick to draft Mallet. Those are two moves that addresses the now and and addresses our qb future.

What Cincy also needs to consider is if they gave us Palmer for a 2012 3rd rd'er and he leads the league in passing for us or becomes a top3 nfl qb in 2011.

Then they'll be awarded a huge copensatory pick in 2012. Maybe as high as a 2nd rd'er. So getting a 2nd rd compensatory and recieving a 3rd pick from us is still a win-win situation for them if they think a 3rd pick for him isnt enough.

The compensatory will split the difference if he plays at a much higher level.

DB, I just can't fathom your logic giving up a 3rd in 2012 for CP today. Whats the point? He isn't going to take this team to the SB in 2011. Its a wasted expense. Last thing I want to hear is he can mentor Henne. It's time for Henne to show it or not. Some here say bring in competition to light a fire under him. Ridiculous, he was benched for Penne and not even that lit a fire under him. Not even a blow torch would light a fire under him...he has no fire if he can't show it in 2011 and no mentor is going to change that.

Odin....saw your post....and you are correct sir....it was directed at you...and only YOU...PERIOD WITH AN EXCLAMATION POINT! lol

actually....thanks for explaining....alot of times things are misinterperted or taken out of context because its just black and white without any the real emotion behind the post able to be determined.....


what if WE SWTICH the name palmer to kolb? who's more valuable ?

Carson Palmer at 14 million is rediculous!!!
VY fighting it out with Henne is way more likely.Or perhaps Kyle oRTON

PEACE TO YOU KRIS .....................

DB....I see in the last few days you have come see things more from the stance I have taken....get Palmer....Draft Mallett.....build Championship around Vet QB and QB Protege.....

That is the best formula for long term success and Ireland and Sporano's job security....

JERMEY,,


ANY ONE DREAMING OF SEEING PALMER COMING TO FL DOESN'T KNOW HOW MIKE DEE WILL RUN THE TEAM MONEY WISE .

Dying Breed.. I have to disagree. The climate of this offseason does not lend itself to developing a quarterback. We have to assume that the CBa will be resolved. We just do not know when it will happen.

Say that the disagreement lasts into the start of training camp. Our rookie gets no time in any offseason programs. Those lost reps are a huge deal. You never get a chance to get those back. Training camp would be excellerated to concentrate on the starter just learning the offense. So again the rookie gets pushed to the back of the pack. Getting even less reps then he would normally. Sure he would get a chance to learn from the sideline, and with his limited amount of reps get a little grasp of what we are trying to do. But what happens if he is thrown into the fire? This is a nightmere scenario. An already unprepared player getting thrown to the wolves. This could devistate any development.

If we were to aquire a guy like Palmer. I think it is in our best interest to wait until next years draft to look at the quarterback position. We cannot afford to use an early round pick on a quarterback if that position is taken care of. We have to many holes to fill to go the developmental route this year(If we get a Vet)

Assuming Ronnie and Ricky leave and we don't sign any significant free agents, would we get compensatory picks for them next year? If yes, would they be 3rd or 4th rounds?

0x80,

What would you give up for Palmer?

kris,

Exactly!

I WOULD GIVE 2 Ib of oranges and he should give me a million dollars with all his interceptions last year .

DD,

To the contrary. If we drafted Mallet we not be able to get much into the preparation of this season. Later camp and all.

But even if the season is say 10 games long. That's still 10 games he can sit, watch, and learn the offense. He would be much further ahead of the curve come camp time 2012.

That's still much further ahead of the curve than a rookie qb drafted in 2012 would be upon entering 2012 training camp. Mallet would have 2012 camp plus how ever many games were played in 2011. Think about it.

Dying..Does your theory @ 9:53 apply to any Quarterback the Doplhins may draft? Or just Mallet? Say the F.O. falls in love with Kaepernick(this doesn't matter if we think Kaep is worthy or not) or Newton falls. Would you still feel the same way? Or is Mallet the only qb. we should be feeling out?

Mike Dee hasn#t proved he#s stupid here yet. If he pays 14 mill for Palmer he might mr.aLOCO

carson palmer won the lottery in CIN ......HIS NUMBES MERIT 300,000 A YEAR ..HOW IN HELL THIS GUY GOT THAT CONTRACT OF 14 MILLION A YEAR UNTIL 2014 W/26 MILLION GUARANTEED ..............


PS.........THIGGY PLAYS FOR 256 DOLLARS A GAME .

Seeing how both Thiggy and Henne maybe gone in 2012. Our thinking had better be bringing in 2 qb's this year.

Tom Brandstadter is on our jv squad and if he couldnt beat out Thiggy for the 3rd qb position I dont see any promise in him. Even as a backup.

Both Henne and Thiggy are seeking teams they feel they both have legit chances to become a starter. Boy, that should be a very short list for both! LOL..............

DD, I'd give nothing for Palmer. It's a waste of time at this point to invest in any QB that can't be the QB of the future. Having Palmer prevents anyone else from developing.

DD,

Of all the 2011 qb's the one that scares me most is Ponder. That's because of all, he the one Iv seen the most of, being from right here in the state of florida.

Ive seen Ponder play since his freshman year. He came in as a projected phenom but I never saw it in his play. He never once played up to his hype.

Now he's being unwarrantly hyped coming into the nfl. What I personally witness during his college career is a guy that should go somewhere between the late 3rd-5th rd.

DD,

Just like most of the scouts say. Ponder's best landing spot should be a west coast offensive team because of his great mobility.

Dying...This is where we differ. I agree with you and Kris. Get a Vet, draft a rookie to learn from the proven Vet. I don't like any of the quartebacks that we may take in round 1. If we were to aquire a Vet. I think we would be better served to wait.

We may not have that luxury if we cannot make trades before the draft(it looks that way) So if we were to draft a guy(throw in your favorite) and then go out and trade for a veteran when the CBA is resolved. I would be okay with it.

My whole argument was. If before the draft we traded for a quarterback. I don't think we are in a position to spend a first round pick on the same position we traded for. It is much different going into the draft with the position up in the air. If it was solidified for this year. We have too many holes not to find a starter.

To your point about Mallet getting game experience. Yes and no. Of course he will get experience watching. But he would be 3rd on the depth chart. Do you know how many reps the third guy gets? 0. They are the scout team qb. Caleb Haine the Bears 3rd guy. Talked after the NFC Championship game about how he took zero reps all season long once the games counted. Not 1.

I guess what it boils down to me. And we can go around and around about it. I'm not a Mallet guy. Not for this team. I know he has a strong arm, can throw it deep. Probably the best passer in the group. I just cannot see him as a guy that if we cannot protect, will have any chance of success. I also see him as a guy(like Henne) that does his best work on script. When the game gets heated, and adjustments made. Against the better competition. This is where Mallet took a lot of sacks, and made key mistakes.

DD,

It all goes back to the where you were draft chart. Say if we got Palmer and Henne were his backup.

They know they have in Henne. So even though Mallet would be 3rd on the depth chart, being drafted 1st rd Henne's reps would split with him.

Especially when you consider Henne would probably leave in 2012's fa anyway. So they'll invest as many reps as they could steal away from Henne as possible.

When things change situations change too. Mallet wouldnt be your normal run of the mill 3rd on the depth chart qb being drafted 1st rd.

..Ponder is evidence of how weak this qb. class is. Some have him rated higher then Mallet, Kaepernick, and Locker. Dying your right. He should be a fourth or fifth. But will likely move up into the second.

All of the quarterbacks have questions. All are far from perfect and will come with some risk. If we choose one, even if he isn't my favorite. I will throw my full support behind him. The guy that puzzles me is Gabbert. I have no idea why he is rated so high. We don't talk about him because he will be gone before we pick. I had never even heard of him until the very end of the season. (not that this matters) I'm glad we aren't in the running for his services.

DD,

Also when teams didnt blitz our oline was pretty decent at protecting Henne. Sometimes they were decent protecting him during blitzing.

One of the main problems I saw with Henne was there were many times he walked right into the blitzers. Henne didnt show much pocket awareness at times either.

Dying...I guess this is the question for you. Is Mallet the only quarterback you think the Phins should draft round 1?

DD,

So when is the right to draft a qb? Unless he's the hands down #1 qb of the draft there are always huge questions concerning all no matter what year it is. Even #1 overall qb's at times become busts.

I'll put it this way with Mallet. IMO, he seems to be the qb that the experts are pushing back, thats most likely to succeed. Seems the qb's the experts are pushing up may have the greatest chance of all to not be the real deal.

0x80...Did you hear Mayock on Taiwan Jones? (your favorite running back. lol) He doesn't think Jones makes it passed round 4. Called him the most explosive, exciting playmaking back in this draft. Just sayin'

DD,

Put it this way. Im not going to be surprised if Mallet's the 2nd qb off the draftboard. I wont be surprised if Mike Shannihan is the guy to do it at #10.

Shannihan is guy that doesnt give a damn what the critics think of him. Thats why I wouldnt be surprised if he's the one to pull the trigger on Mallet.

DD,

I had a man love crush on Kaep when he was projected 4th-6th rd. In the end he maybe worth taking 2nd rd but I feel he needs to sit at least 2 full seasons.

That slow release will be troublesome for him in the nfl. That's all the time it takes for nfl level top corners to jump routes. The ball will have to come out his hands quicker on certain style routes against the top nfl corners.

Kaep got away with the slower style release in college not going against top notched calibre corners. But he wont be so luck against the upper echelon corner in the nfl.

They will convert his slower release to pick 6's on certain routes when the balls need to be there and been there yesterday, Not tomorrow.

Dying Breed just reminded me of ANOTHER big reason NOT to use a high pick on a QB this year.

In addition to this being obviously the weakest QB draft class in the history of the NFL.

In addition to all the "Blue Chippers" not being............ah.........."Blue Chippers".

In addition to ALL the red flags and question marks surrounding the top 5 QB prospects.

The entire off season, other than the draft itself will be a scratch due to the lack of a CBA.

ESPECIALLY when considering our situation. Specifically with the hiring of Daboll and no time to install the new offense.

This just isn't the year to do it. To many things stacked against it. I mean too many things in addition to this being the weakest and most highly suspect group of QB draft prospects of all time. The writings on the wall!

What would we gain by using a high pick on one of these potential busts? They'll miss rookie camp. They'll miss training camp. They might even miss the entire pre season, if not the entire season itself! We'll be paying them to do nothing and learn basically nothing for their first year. They'll be no further ahead than those QB's picked in next years draft.

There's just too many question marks across the entire off season board due to the lack of a CBA!

I say it's prime time for finding some play makers and filling needs by drafting the BPA PERIOD!

Next years FA QB's and draft prospects will be light years ahead of ALL those available this year anyway. I know it sucks to wait, but patience is a virtue for a very good reason.

Sorry, but that's just the way I see it. I'm pretty sure you disagree with me DB, but thanks for making me aware of these final components that allowed me to reach the most reasonable conclusion(s).

Oh yeah, Sorry ALoco, I'll keep it shorter next time.

ValHalla!!!!

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