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The other side of the Carson Palmer coin

There is always another side to the proverbial coin.

When I discuss the interest I've perceived from the Dolphins for Cincinnati quarterback Carson Palmer -- based on conversations I've had with folks within the organization -- I always am very careful to point out this account only applies to Miami's interest.

I cannot tell you exactly what will happen when the lockout is lifted and players are allowed to be traded because I am not certain what the Bengals will do about Palmer. And they also get a vote. Yes, I believe the Bengals have offered small hints here and there they might be willing to part with Palmer for the right price.

But I haven't actually talked to the Bengals, I don't know what the price would be, and I have no clue what the Dolphins would think of that price.

That is the other side of the coin. And Geoff "Butch" Hobson, who was so good at covering the Bengals for so long the team waved the white flag and actually hired him (If you can't beat them, hire them), says the trade winds for Palmer are so still, there are no trade winds.

Not for the third-round pick Dan Marino suggested he would give. Not for anything any of you are willing to part with, based on my reading of your comments.

"... If [the Dolphins] think it’s going to take Dan Marino’s suggested third-round pick, they should take a drug test," Hobson wrote recently. "Mike Brown giving up Palmer for only a third-rounder? Never happen. Brown giving up Palmer period? Maybe less than never."

I sat next to Hobson during the NFL annual meetings in New Orleans. He mentioned more than once to me he thinks Palmer is simply outstanding. He said watching him during practices, he's seen Palmer make every single throw imaginable -- dashing the theory Palmer is too injured and diminished to make a difference any more. He also, on more than one occasion, compared Palmer to Jim Plunkett.

Plunkett, like Palmer, was a former No. 1 overall pick. Plunkett, like Palmer, had his share of struggles with a struggling franchise that drafted him. And Plunkett was traded to the Oakland Raiders where he won a couple of Super Bowl titles.

If that analogy is accurate, Palmer would be exactly the right veteran QB to chase once the NFL labor situation is settled.

I suppose that's the third side of the coin. Um, yeah, the third side of the coin.

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Guys,

Problem is if you believe the Dolphins are a solid playoff team in 2011 youre decieving yourselves. Can they become a 6th and final seed? absolutely!

But you also gotta remember they'll be in heavy competition with at least 3 other teams for the 6th and final playoff seed. Leaving no room for margin of era in a late season playoff push.

We havent closed well at all the last 2 seasons. We seem to totally run out of gas and are parked on the side of the road about the final 4 games. Even if we do make the playoffs as the 6th and final seed it more likely than not we'll be running on fumes and it will be yet another one and done.

Palmer or not. Has Palmer ever even won a playoff game? If he has I dont recall it.

When Plunkett won the Super Bowl it was for the LA Raiders not Oakland Raiders.
And he won it in his 15th year in the league.

What we really seem to lack on this team are "closer". Guys who seem to make big plays when it matters most.

We have a few but not nearly enough. On offense, I could qualify Long, B-Marsh, and Bess as closer types but thats about it.
On defense our best closer is Cam Wake, with Dansby a distant 2nd.

None of our db's seem to have closer mentality. Seems the bigger the moment gets, the more prone they become to dropping sure picks. We'll never become a championship calibre defense if this continues to happen no matter how high they finish the season ranked.

PriceMaster,

Dont forget Plunkett had a championship calibre defense, nice recievers, and Marques Allen. Allen single-handedly completely change the momentum of the game in thier SB win with that 72yd td run.

Without that run it would have been very difficult for the Raiders and Plunkett to win that game. So you cant really compare Palmer and Plunkett because if Palmer came here it would an entirely different team from what Plunkett had in LA.

I wont even be confident we have a plaayoff calibre defense until I see our db's begin holding onto to picks. If I see Sean Smith drop one more pick. Im going to hire a sniper to sit in the stands and shoot his hands off.

GOLD AT 1475...UP 16 TODAY

OIL IS AT 111.59......... 4 DOLLARS A GALLON .

Here is the flip side of the flip side of the slip, flip side of the coin. The fins don't make a move for Palmer, they upgrade the Oline with Pouncy, or the kid from Wisconsin, or USC. Get A late round pick up at RB. Win 4-5 games and try and get LUCK in next years draft. YEAH A YEAH!!!!

What standard is Henne being held to anyway?
After 2 years as a starter Peyton Manning had thrown 43 ints and won nothing...Aaron Rodgers threw for a combined total of 300 yards his first 3 years in the league...Drew Brees three for less than 6000 yards had 29tds and 31 ints...Sam Bradford put up identical numbers to Henne last year and he won Rookie of the Year.

The pick dropsy syndrom didnt start until Smith's arrival. It now seems to be disease that's spreaded throughout our entire db corp. LOL............

PRICEMASTER is becoming the voice of reason ....

Like I said guys, even with a great draft and offseason. I see no better than a 6th and final playoff seed and one and done playoffs.

Like Charles Barkley says, "I maybe wrong, but I doubt it"!

Seems the owners and players are agreeing to go back into mediations. Problem is, to get a new cba done before the draft, they may need to go into arbitration instead.

Mediations didnt work last time, so I dont know what makes them think it'll work this time.

We are coming off two dismal seasons in a row, last season even worse performance-wise. We have an entirely new offensive coaching staff. We have one single solitary offensive weapon in Marshall. One. Whats left is three mediocre or unproven WR's, a very ordinary TE, a pretty good slot receiver, and only one single RB, a 6th rounder that we already waived once.

Considering all that, considering the Pats Jets and Bills already have more weapons on their offense than we do, weapons that are already familiar with the coaches, schemes and players, not to mention the Pats 6 picks in the first 3 rounds compared to our 2, not to mention all those teams clearly have a superior coaching staff, how in the world does anybody realistically believe any QB alive would get this team to a playoff victory in 2011?

I'm struggling to remember the last time this team drafted a true offensive weapon. Anyone remember? And some are saying we need to draft oline first? Some want to let this FO that has failed miserably numerous times already in drafting lineman (Long the sole exception), draft one again with the very first pick, ignoring the chance to grab a desperately needed offensive play maker? I've heard all the oline arguments, but no oline can possibly look good with no play makers! I contend yet again our oline is not as in bad shape as most assume, with a few play makers they will look far better.

Seriously. Its fun to be a fan and dream but sometimes a whiff of reality is in order. Playoffs?

jincred,poiz and others

overall i'm with u in that i'm still deceived (as haters would have it) by henne's potential

he's got so many weaknesses that others won't give him time and don't see his potential to be ... yes... great (no typo) he misses open receivers, he checks down, his 4th quarter stats are awful, he appears immobile, he's not good at the playaction deceptions, he's not charismatic, he misses the deep ball too often

wow there's a lot there

BUT

he's shown time and again that he can drive till his oc plugs in an awful play, he's shown great throws, he's the best at 3rd down and short yardage, he matched brees on td per attempts in the red zone, his receivers and rb's and ol have let him down LOADS of times he's shown he's got it all in there apart from great mobility

some people reach their peak early, some people take time to develop both as people and as performers, some require or have more confidence than others and take time to find it , but that does not mean they won't reach the same level that the others reach quicker, not only that they may susatin that level for longer than them because of how they got there

1 more chance

rookie plus "no trading of pics" vet to compete

new system, new oc, hopefully a running game

bring it on , db - we can compete for a seed if not the division

i may be dreamin

but i'm dreamin of food

Gloria James, Lebron Jame's mother, was arrested yesterday morning. She assualted a valet parking attendant over the length of time it was taking them to bring her car to her.

I smell civil lawsuit and some of Lebron Jame's money flying out his wallet. LOL..........

0x80,

Thats exactly why I say this team isnt a 1 offseason fix. It will take 2 offseason just to become a solid wildcard team and at least 3 seasons to become a totally legit challenger for the division title.

Even all of that is assuming we may all the right personel decisions over the next 3 season. This regime has made lots of crucial mistakes the first 3 season which has set our natural progression back a little further than it presently should be.

wolf,

Problem is plain and simple, Henne seems to be a slow thinker. We really dont have the time to wait until his 7th-8th season for the lights to fully come on.

More likely than not, if the lights dont fully come on this season, it will be his last as a Miami Dolphin. He wont be resign when he becomes a fa in 2012.

Guys,

Its not all Henne's fault. This regime bears a lot of blame for the teams misfortunes too. There's been good personel decisions, but almost as many horrible ones too.

But in the end you can almost certainly believe it'll be Henne's head thats next to fall. Thier has to be a sacrificial scapegoat to beheadst every dire malady.

The Dolphins wont trade a #1 for any QB thats 31 yrs old. Having said that, I believe the Dolphins would be nutts not to trade a #1 for Palmer, if the Bungles will take that. Palmer is an established NFL QB with hopefully 4-5 yrs left to play. Remember Jamarcus Russell, Alex Smith, et al. Also in my view, Id trade a #1, #3 to get Palmer. The Dolphins would be a contender the day the trade was made. To the Dolphin brain trust,,,do this trade. All other needs the Dolphins have can be made in free agency.

Wow, the general consensus on this blog is that Chad Henne has potential and deserves another season??!!

Henne doesn't need to be held to a superstar standard - the question is whether or not a team could win with him at QB, and the answer is obviously no.

Forget all the excuses with the running backs, offensive line, coordinators - the fact of the matter is that Chad Henne cannot see more than one target on any given play and he cannot move defenses with his head and his body language, there has never been a successful QB in this history of the league who couldn't do those things.

Anyone who knows anything about football (presumably including his coaches) has seen that since his rookie year. It's been written about, Henne's acknowledged it and said he was working on it, and yet he still shows zero improvement.

Carson Palmer isn't a savior, he's just a decent QB who can get the ball to Brandon Marshall. Henne will never be that and nothing the Dolphins do with their personnel or draft picks matters until they get a new quarterback.

dying breed is playing a doctor ,HOW YOU KNOW HENNE IS A SLOW THINKER ? MAY BE IT'S A NATURAL PROGRESS FOR A QB .


0X80.... WE R NOT FAR FROM PLAYOFF PICTURE ,WE JUST NEED MARSHALL TO HOLD ON THE BALL WHEN HENNE THROW IT TO HIM .

They need to sign Vince Young! He does not cost us anything and has huge upside!!

WileyDolphin- If we give up a 1st rd pick for Palmer Im becoming a Tampa Bay Buc fan.

Blackeyed -Sisters,

Henne's in his final contract year. So yes it is his final chance to make a mark in Miami. whether all fans like it or not.

As a Dolphan I will root for his success. But if he shows the lights have still yet to come on. I will also be on the bandwagon to show him the door.

DYING BRED AND THE ART OF WRITING,,,, HE GOES TO SAY SOME NICE THINGS ABOUT HENNE TO NOT SO NICE THINGS THEN HE HE SAYS HE'S SLOW THINKER THEN HIS HEAD WILL FALL ..............

DB...I AM NOT ATTACKING YOU , BUT YOUR WRITING SEEMS INSPIRING .

NO TEAM WILL GIVE ANY THING TO GET PALMER...PALMER SHOULD THE ONE WHO GIVES A MILLIONS IN HIS NEW CONTRACT TO HAVE A TRADE DONE AND FORFIT THE GUARANTEED MONEY FRON CIN.

VY hasnt shown he can become a 60% nfl passer. His only huge upside seem to be the ability to make plays with his legs. That isnt a huge upside, its called a great intangible.

i accept both the henne's a slow thinker and SEEMS to see only one target charges

the real questions - is that it? will he ever improve?

henne came to the team with all the characteristics of puppy very eager to please( first in last out , works hard etc)

problem - his trainer/handler, he's trained to become check down chad and scolded for even thinking outside the trainers box

but his training leads him to fail

puppy chad is a depressed rejected young hound

some say shoot the thing it'll never be any use

i say it just needs the right training and to be trained to do the tricks it's best at

i'm a wolf not a dog but i'm telling u that slow check down henne is one coach, a running game, and a sl tweak on the oline away from showing u what a champion pooch he is


when's dinner time?

sometime late january?

Aloco,

1-7 at home, losing 3 of those to the worst teams, QB benched twice, 4 rb's not resigned, new coaches, some that never even coached their new position, that sound like we are close to a playoff team?

With Buffalo picking 3rd, they may very well take Newton or Mallet. That should put us at the 4th rated team in a division of 4. Not inspiring.

ALoco,

Basically Im saying its not all Henne's fault. We have a terrible qb situation, a front office that has made almost as many terrible decisions as good decision, and Henne may have just been thrust into the fire sooner than his ability indicates he was ready for.

Henne may have just been a qb who neede to sit and learn for at least 3 full seasons. It really isnt entirely his fault this fo misevaluated him on that. However when CP went down at the beginning of Henne's 2nd season there was no other choice.

Not to even mention the instability that still surrounds him. But given all of these things, still the fans are starved for qb success, whether Henne was fully ready or not. So he naturally becomes the single most available scapegoat for all of our offensive ineptitudes.

I'm trying to answer my own question about when was the last time we drafted an offensive play maker, difference maker. I can't think of anyone since Marino. That's 28 years! 28 YEARS! I just can't go along with those who want to draft an oliner with our first pick.

0x80

u know those great america's game films and espn 30 for 30, they're full of sporting shocks and amazing turnarounds

i don't for one minute truly believe we're gonna win the sb next year but i wouldn't rule it out, hey playoffs r almost a cert (wow)

but i've already got my bet placed at great odds on both a sb win and a championship(there's a great nurse here on icu who'll do that kind of thing)

all we should be trying to do is improve the team season by season until we do compete on a regular basis, imo this fo has not been given enough time before being totally slagged off,nor has henne, no-one really knows what daboll and co r gonna be like (if they ever get near the players)

don't forget 2008 proved that a team can turnaround more than u think/expect

lastly , we're fast becoming the only run first team in the nfl-

every team we meet will have forgotten how to play against us and will have a team and scheme designed to beat the pass first offense allowing us to set the renaissance trend of the run first offense that will dominate the late 20teens (ok bit of a joke here)

Chad Henne's contract is cheaper than Pat White's was - he's not guaranteed another year just because he still has one on his contract.


Granted he wasn't coached particularly well but being aware of your body language and being able to move defenses with your head is almost a natural ability, it's not something you can teach a third year NFL starter.

I'm not looking for a scapegoat, I just know that Henne can never be a successful NFL QB and I think it's cheating the fans to waste another season with him.

Im definitely rooting for Henne's success. But still I believe it will be his head that falls if we landed a vet and Henne lost the starter job.

One of the reasons I dont believe this fo will resign him if he loses his starter job is because, plain and simply, they need a scape goat for thier own eneptitudes since they've been here.

Clearly Henne showed he wasnt fully ready last season. But it wasnt his fault expectations from us as fans was a little higher than it should have been. Didnt help that Ross was blabbing about Henne as the next Marino and we're going to the SB in 2010 neither.

I thought maybe Ronnie was the last offensive playmaker we drafted, but he falls shy of the line in my opinion. He had some moments but overall a huge dissapointment for a #2 overall pick. Never a game changer with the exception o a few WC games.

And as far as Vince Young goes, yea, that's another guy who could be a decent QB, sign him up too.

I would trade the first rounder for Palmer, sign Vince Young, and draft a QB with the third round pick.

Teams can be successful with decent QBs, Henne will never be decent.

GREAT POINTS 0X80 TO REMIND US OF LAST YEAR .AS FOR THE NEW COACHES TO BE.ONE OF THEM I AM NOT WORRIED ABOUT IS DABALL .HE WILL BE FINE .YOU CAN'T DO WORST THAN HENNGTON LAST YEAR .

WHAT THE WORD DECENT MEANS?

DOES IT MEAN 7-9 ?
DOES IT MEAN 11-5 ?

THEN WHAT GOOD QB MEANS ?
13-3

THEN WHAT GREAT QB MEANS ?

SB WIN ?

0x80,

The question should have been when's the last time we drafted the right offensive player in the 1st rd. However, Offensive player alone would qualify Jake Long in 2007. But an equal argument could be made it should have been Matt Ryan.

We've also had some not so great #1 drafts on offense since Marino, with your Ronnie Browns, Vernon Careys. Then your Yatil Greens and John Averys heading that list.

DB, no dispute on Long, I guess I meant playmakers in terms of RB, WR, TE, QB. It's astonishing how few offensive weapons we have and have few we've drafted.

0x80,

Just paid closer attention. "Playmaker" is the key operative word. I guess since Marino, the closest tthing we've had to 1st rd offensive playmaker has been Jake Long. But he's a LT. LOL...........

db

some not so great?

many i think

but only 3 drafts with this fo, and last years crop can't be properly judged yet

this the first with no bp

such a crucial draft with so many needs thats why we're all so desperate for them to get it right

ted ginn and pat white are the stand out horrors

How many teams in the NFL have not drafted a pro bowl RB, WR, TE, or QB in the last 28 years?

0x80,

We've certainly blown some #1 picks over the years since Marino on quite a few offensive duds. Only thing truly offensive about them was that they were just truly "stinking" offensive! LOL........

You can't put a record like that on a QB - look at Brady or Manning or guys like McNabb or Palmer. They've been about the same QBs ability-wise for a long time and they've had seasons with widely varying records.

It's all a scale - a good QB could take a decent team to the playoffs, a decent QB could take a good team to the playoffs, what's important in this case is that a bad QB, which Chad Henne is, will never take any team anywhere.

So Palmer couldn't win 13 games and take the Dolphins to the Super Bowl? Fine, but that team would be better than one with Chad Henne and Ingrim or Pouncey or whoever.

wolf,

Its has been those bad draft picks and very suspect fa signings that has set this team back from where we should be. It still hugely troubles me to have to say this is the best regime since Shula.

DB,

I'm not just counting first rounders, I'm including the entire draft. We have not drafted a pro bowl RB, WR, TE, or QB in 28 years! Astonishing demonstration of long term incompetence.

(Ronnie was selected in the 2009 Pro Bowl as a reserve back, wowee)

The thing no one's thinking of is, "What if Palmer sustains a season ending injury just like CP did"?

Once again we're right back to Chad Henne. You can bet a defender will try and disguise his intentions and go after Palmer's bad knee. Its only a 15yd penalty and possible 1 game suspension. But we're back to Henne for what ever the remainder of the year is.

Dolphin nation would really be grumbling about bringing in a qb with a bum knee then. Even be ready to crucify this fo if they paid a 1st or 2nd rd pick for him. So they had better be very careful what they pay for Palmer. LOL...........

db

u said it

just beware that if they get shunted out their replacements (even if big names) may be as bad as 2000-2007

i still feel that overall the team has progressed each season since this fo (we were 1-15)and is younger and more athletic, just not as fast as it could have progressed
with sl better picks and a better (scheme,coach and henne)henne

this year drafting in general bpa with offensive needs in mind is still the way to improve and produce sustained quality for years to come

please no wasting of picks on tired vets who r not guaranteed to do any better than henne or even a 1st,3rd rd rookie qb (who if henne fails i would be happy to throw in this season)

0x80,

Then we didnt start drafting players from the U until they went on the decline. HOF'ers right in our own backyard and we never flinched until the bums started coming in. LOL...........

wolf,

Unfortunately with the bad draft and fa decisions we seem to have fallen far enough off of the mark, it'll take great decisions this season just to become a solid one and done playoff team. Great decisions next year should added to this, might make us a 2nd rd playoff team if we get the right matchup in the palyoffs.

So I think you know where Im going with this. I just believe it will be 3 season beginning at this point just to become a seriously legit threat to challenge for the division title.

Any screwups between now and then will seriously jeapardize even this renewed timetable.

Miami definitely needs offensive weapons, but how you get there is what we're all debating. The weapons I'd like to see are guys that can score from anywhere on the field (a WR like Wallace from the Steelers, a RB like Charles from Chiefs, a TE like Gates from San Diego). And these guys need to be USED for their PURPOSE (not to loosen the defense so the slow RB can plod up the field for 8 yards).

Mark Ingram is NOT an offensive "weapon." He's a possession RB. And that philosophy is outdated. If we're really interested in getting offensive playmakers, we need the type of guys other teams get with speed, football smarts and the ability to make big plays. Julio Jones, that's a big playmaker. The RB from Maryland, that's potentially a big playmaker. Either of the TEs NE got last year, big playmakers. Let's update our "prototypical" offensive player and maybe we'll upgrade our offense (Henne or no Henne).

Wolf - you're crazy if you think Carson Palmer wouldn't do better than Chad Henne. Watch some games sometime, you'll see what I mean.

This is a huge turning point for this franchise and fo. Any even semi-serious personel miscalculation most likely places us finishing 1-2 games away from making the last wildcard playoff slot.

It isnt very encouraging when it appears your fo has to be nearly perfect in an offseason just to be a one and done playoff team at best.

BEES

i never said i wasn't crazy, but crazy here thinks you've got some old highlights on

DC,

Saying Ingram is outdated is like saying Czonka was outdated too. Its just with a plodding rb you also need your Mercury Morris. You also need your Paul Warfield. Without them Czonka never would have worked.

You still need the plodding back to close out(grind away the clock) games when you have safe leads. If not you have to continue throwing the ball and taking unwarranted risks. Sooner or later those unwarranted risk bite you in the butt.

A plodding rb will never be outdated. You just gotta have them surrounded with the proper weapons(speed) and employ the proper usuage of them. That will never be outdated my friend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrKfsIXbIVk&feature=fvst

All last year - can you imagine Henne making any of those throws around the endzone?

The great misnomer of all time maybe that the early 70's Dolphins were predominantly a 3yards and cloud of dust team. That's so far from the real truth.

They were every bit the pure example of a pick your poison offense. Try and shut down the run game and Warfield would catch a 70yarder on you. Warfield alone was averaging about 25yds per reception back then.

Then when you try and shutdown Warfield and the passing game it meant committing less defenders in the run box then Czonka plowed thru you. Just when Czonka weards you down the speedy Morris would hit you up for a 60-70yd td run.

The early 70's Dolphins were far from a 3yds and cloud of dust offense. It was more like, "How would you like to have your poison served today" for nfl defenses.

Blackeyed,

Certainly those highlights werent nearly enough as the Bengals finished 2010 3-13. This record indicates the lowlights were much broader.

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