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The other side of the Carson Palmer coin

There is always another side to the proverbial coin.

When I discuss the interest I've perceived from the Dolphins for Cincinnati quarterback Carson Palmer -- based on conversations I've had with folks within the organization -- I always am very careful to point out this account only applies to Miami's interest.

I cannot tell you exactly what will happen when the lockout is lifted and players are allowed to be traded because I am not certain what the Bengals will do about Palmer. And they also get a vote. Yes, I believe the Bengals have offered small hints here and there they might be willing to part with Palmer for the right price.

But I haven't actually talked to the Bengals, I don't know what the price would be, and I have no clue what the Dolphins would think of that price.

That is the other side of the coin. And Geoff "Butch" Hobson, who was so good at covering the Bengals for so long the team waved the white flag and actually hired him (If you can't beat them, hire them), says the trade winds for Palmer are so still, there are no trade winds.

Not for the third-round pick Dan Marino suggested he would give. Not for anything any of you are willing to part with, based on my reading of your comments.

"... If [the Dolphins] think it’s going to take Dan Marino’s suggested third-round pick, they should take a drug test," Hobson wrote recently. "Mike Brown giving up Palmer for only a third-rounder? Never happen. Brown giving up Palmer period? Maybe less than never."

I sat next to Hobson during the NFL annual meetings in New Orleans. He mentioned more than once to me he thinks Palmer is simply outstanding. He said watching him during practices, he's seen Palmer make every single throw imaginable -- dashing the theory Palmer is too injured and diminished to make a difference any more. He also, on more than one occasion, compared Palmer to Jim Plunkett.

Plunkett, like Palmer, was a former No. 1 overall pick. Plunkett, like Palmer, had his share of struggles with a struggling franchise that drafted him. And Plunkett was traded to the Oakland Raiders where he won a couple of Super Bowl titles.

If that analogy is accurate, Palmer would be exactly the right veteran QB to chase once the NFL labor situation is settled.

I suppose that's the third side of the coin. Um, yeah, the third side of the coin.

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To become anything similar to the early 70's Dolphins offense. Thses present Dolphins offense need to become a very multi-faceted one.

Thanks to the early 70's Dolphins, I still very vividly remember what a truly championship offense needs to look like! LOL.........

BEES

Henne's TD percentage per pass in the redzone is equal to Drew Brees, his 89 redzone QB rating is also about equal to Brees's. The difference is the ball was taken out of his hands so that we could either run, run the WC, or settle for FGs. Bases on his numbers, he could've had 20+ TDs if given more redzone opps, especially if he attempted as many passes as Bradford, who had more TDs than Chad b/c he had more opportunities despite converting less TDs per attempt and with a lower QB rating than Chad.

After Miami crushed Minnesota in SBVIII, Vikings lb Wally Hilgenberg stated, "Its an absolute honor to finish 2nd place to those guys. They just seemed to come wave after wave all day long."

Guys it doesnt get any better when the losing opponent pays that high of an accolade to you after losing! LOL...........

BEES

The ground game was one of the worst in the NFL in ALL categories in 2010. It was one of the top in 2009. In 2010 it wasn't picking up enough consistent, quality yardage on 1st and/or 2nd down. This puts a QB in TOO many 2nd & 3rd and longs, which isn't good when you have a group of the slowest WRs/TEs/and RBs in the NFL and a defense knows you need 8+ yards for a first. You're setting a QB up for failure in that scenario. HOWEVER, when the ground game did its job and put Henne in 3rd and manageable situations (3rd & 3-7 yards) he was the TOP QB in the NFL in converting them----- NUMBER ONE with a QB rating around 117!!

On first down, downs that are typically more unpredictable, Henne was around an 87 QB rating, which is very respectable considering the lack of a ground game, the injuries at WR & TE, and the lack of depth at WR & TE.

CONFESSION - NOT MY HOMEWORK BUT LAP IT UP

Ever hear of the phrase "sample size effect"?

Antwaan Randel El led the league in overall QB rating last year. 2 for 2, 2 TDs.

You girls never stop bickering!

WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT PALMER! I FOLLOW THE BENGALS AND TRUST ME THIS TEAM DOES NOT WANT HIM!!

trust me i haven't produced a sample in years, that requires food and a digestive system

please don't rip me about sample size!

DO YOU REMEMBER JACK TOMPSON THE THROWING SAMON ON THE CINICATTI BENGALS? HE WAS GOOD BUT THEY WERE BAD. TYHEY ARE ALLWAYS BAD.....ANYWAY IT DOESNT MATTER BECUASE THERE WONT BE NFL THIS YEAR AND I AM ROOTING FOR THER HAMITON CAT TIGERS OF THE CANADIA FOOTBALL LEGUE


When Plunkett won the Super Bowl it was for the LA Raiders not Oakland Raiders.
And he won it in his 15th year in the league.

Posted by: PriceMaster | April 08, 2011 at 11:14 AM

-------------------------

Incorrect. Plunkett won his first Super Bowl with the Raiders in January, 1981 when the franchise was still located in Oakland. His second ring with the team came three years later when they had relocated to Los Angeles.

We have to draft our franchize QB. I'm not saying don't bring in a veteran but don't give up draft picks for one.

Additionally, Plunkett's first ring came in his 11th season (he was a rookie in 1970), not his 15th as you stated.

But there's no QB available at #15, and the Dolphins don't have any chips to trade up to get one.

Why not use the pick on a veteran?

What was the name of the fat chick on 'Facts of Life?'

DB, we got that guy who can be a plodding back, his name is Lex Hilliard. Give the kid a chance (he didn't do too badly when R&R got hurt 2 years ago).

The issue to me seems be our inability to crank out a decent O with consistent OL. The biggest problem is the QB spot. Putting Henne out there without earning it is meaningless. The other big issue is that when our D plays decent our O can't seem to put up points. Carey's been a problem for us and Henne too.

To me the most obvious thing is that Tuna didn't get the job done drafting and neither did Ireland. Sparano's over rated, I think he got lucky with Penne going 11-5. We need someone to light that spark on O and I can't see us getting it done with Carson. A rookie is a two year project if you get the right one. Depending on Henne and Thiggy doesn't look promising, so that leaves us with getting a veteran QB.

We don't have many options, personally I think we should bring Vince down here. I think we need somebody in the house that can make Ross look like the fool he is for keeping Sparano and Ireland, but mostly for putting us through all the crap with his lack of vision. Heck bring Wayne back, he wasn't as cheesy as Ross. Though he never found a replacement for Marino either and we may never. We just need a QB that going to give us 100 percent, 100 percent of the time.

That's not asking too much, is it?

...I have been on the fence about Vince Young.He was drafted by the Titans to be their heir apparant to Steve McNair. The experiment on most accounts has been a failure.

Even with Youngs skill set. He hasn't proven to be a leader, or that franchise player. Teams do not make noise about getting rid of a third overall pick if they have confidence in him. He has acted more like a wide reciever, then the leader of your team. His high maintenence persona is a distraction, and causes players to pick sides. Not ideal for your quarterback.

Young does show glimpses of why Tennessee drafted him so high. My post yesterday was a ringing endorsement of him. But I thought about it a little today. And I think that this team neads leadership at the quarterback spot. Not a fragile up and down player who seems to shy away when the going gets tough.

I'm reposting this link again because it shows how success is measured in the draft by a couple of current NFL execs.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/39145/good-draft-hit-rates-lower-than-you-think

Here is an excerpt from the Titans GM:
"If you look historically, teams get 2.3 starters per draft and as a team, I think you need to strive to get three starters per draft, or I should say players worthy of starting."

I'm all for doing everything possible to win now, but the reality is we have too many birds to kill and not enough stones to throw. We are still seriously behind the competition. Teams get on average 2.3 starters from a draft. This only illustrates how much more valuable high picks are, and as well, should tell us we are not going to get this thing completely fixed in 2011 no matter what QB we get, be it through the draft or FA.

Therefore I think the FO should be looking at whats available in the 2012 draft, compare that to our needs and whats available in the 2011 draft, and manage those picks as wisely as possible to end up with 4-5 starters in positions of need between now and the 2012 draft. That is what is reasonably acheivable. While history has shown last place teams have risen to become champions the next year, that is not reasonably achievable with this team in its current state. Instead of trying to conjure up a game plan of picks and FA's that will get us to the SB in 2011, it would be far more in line with reality to look at the big picture, and game plan for where we can be in 2012.


RE: Black Eyed Pea and Armando,

How about this side of the Carson Palmer coin!

Carson Palmer's defense ranked 15th overall. In the upper half. Not great by any means, but not terrible either. Definitely "respectable".

Palmer had a 1000 yards rusher in Cedric Benson.

Palmer had an exceptional pass catching TE in Jermaine Gresham. 52 catches - 471 yards and 4 TD's. Not bad numbers for a rookie TE.

Palmer also had two very talented WR's in Owens and Ocho Head Case.

Despite all of the above, Palmer led his team to a 3 way tie for the SECOND WORST RECORD in the NFL.

Like I said, Marino has a DECLINING Palmer slightly overvalued for a 3rd rounder. A couple of you mentioned giving up a 1st and a 3rd for Palmer? ROTFLMAO!

I'll take Henne over that warts and all. No run game, pourous O-line, no pass catching TE, no speed receiver, DAN HENNING, etc, etc. Under these circumstances, Henne managed 7 wins.

With a much more balanced attack and some superior weapons, Palmer BARELY SQUEAKED OUT 4 wins!

Forget the fact that Palmers statistics have been on a steady decline for over 3 seasons. The guy simply can't win games anymore, REGARDLESS of how much talent he's surrounded with.

Just the facts Ma'am, Nothing but the facts..................................


ValHalla!!!!

I could see Carson throwing to Marshall,it would work but it is a gamble, just like everything else, the dolphins over the years just haven't been able to get those kinds of guys that make a big difference, even though Carson looks like he could be the answer for the fins, if they where to get him he would probably suck. SORRY NOT TRYING TO BE TO NEGATIVE HERE IT IS JUST THE WAY IT HAS GONE FOR THE DOLPHINS FOR QUITE AWHILE!

Well, this one's been beat to death. We vote no Mando. Next topic please.

So................

This is what happens when Armando "calls off" the imposter(s)..................

Chirp, Chirp, CHIRP!

chirp?

Odin...Give us a new topic. It seems like Armando has been slacking or struggling for topics this offseason. Cocoajoe is right. This topic is beat. I have tried to get some folks together to do a mock draft exercise. But it has drawn little interest. I thought it would be cool. Anyone interested could post their mock draft on a certain day before the draft. We could compaire the mocks to the real draft. What do you think? Interested?

Interested?

Are you kidding?

I do about a mock a week between the combine and draft day.

We need some parameters though. A lot of people will want to post mocks with trade down scenarios.

Do we include hypothetical or just stick with the picks?

Odin...Sorry, the power keeps going out. 36 inches of freakin snow since Tuesday. So much for spring!

In this little mock draft bonanza. I suggest we just do a straight up draft. No trade scenarios. Just the picks we currently have. People can do their mocks however they please. The whole idea is that we get to rip on folks for how lame their ideas are! But seriously. I would say that put your feelings aside, and try and do a Mock that is semi realistic. As if you got to be the GM.Just no trades.

Odin u don't know the half of it. There are about six other major reasons why not to draft Palmer. He's high on pick sixes, he's had two winning seasons in seven? Years, he basically forced the bengals to roster his brother Jordan the worst qb on an NFL roster, he was also given Jordan Shipley, tj houschmenzadeh, antonio Bryant ( he asked for, bengals paid eight mill and never caught a pass,), not to mention draft picks year after year for the passing game, he sat out two years plus with injury one was a fake injury, and lastly the team that even though he doesn't have a playoff win that paid him like he is Peyton manning and made him rich he has spat in their face for no apparent reason, a bigger prima Donna than all wide receiver put together.
Why does mando still want him so bad? Two reasons: qb shortage in the NFL and he isn't aware of who Carson Palmer really is, and that's a shame for someone who works in the NFL.
I say we keep the 16 million and first round draft pick and use them to get good NFL players. But that's just me'.

Btw this mock draft is it what we would do
As gm or what Ireland will do? Because if It's Ireland I have to read up on crap players who will bust out.

I GIVE YOU A TOPIC ,


PREDICT WHO'S GOING TO BE GONE FROM THE FINS TEAM THIS YEAR .


ODIN,

WHAT DO YOU DO FOR LIVING ? YOUR WRITING LATELY SPEAS OF WELL GROOMED MAN .

ANY ONE THINKS ROSS WILL GIVE HIS MONEY EASILY IN THE COMING YEARS TO ANY PLAYER ,SHOULD HAVE HIS HEAD EXAMINED .

Lil Aloco, Look For Channing(Caveman)Crowder to be "86ed" this season...........

CUBAN, THIGGY WILL BE GONE ALSO .

Aloco,

I saw the compliments earlier, Thanks.

I'm a "Semi-Retired" Musician. I got lucky with the guys I hooked up with and we had a few hits. So I get by on small royalty and residual checks. The latest have come from the Ford Motor Company using one of our songs on a commercial and a production company that produced the movie Arthur. They're using the same song on the soundtrack.

I'm not rich by any means, but I get by.

I do voluntary work for elderly shut ins and I have a very small automotive/towing/snow plowing shop. I just do these things because it makes me feel good and keeps me busy.

As far as my education, I did the best I could.

When you start out life as a 13 year old runaway dope fiend wanna be musician, you either learn fast or die.

ValHalla!!!!


Aloco,

What is Chorizo?

This absolutely beautiful little blonde just made it for me.

Posted by: odinseye | April 07, 2011 at 04:18 PM

Odinseye, you got it all wrong....Your chorizo is what you are going to put inside of her.


Odinseye, you got it all wrong....Your chorizo is what you are going to put inside of her.

Posted by: The Cuban Assassin | April 09, 2011 at 12:02 AM

ROTFLMAO!

DAMMIT! I knew I was doing something wrong!

ODIN,


SOME THING ABOUT YOUR WRITING , I SENSE YOU DON'T HAVE A MEAN BONE IN YOUR BODY ,IT'S VERY INVITING AND COOL ....


ENOUGH COMPLIMENTS ,,,, VaLHalla

ALoco,

You just made my day. If I could pick out one thing I wanted people to say about me, I think this would be it:

I SENSE YOU DON'T HAVE A MEAN BONE IN YOUR BODY ,IT'S VERY INVITING AND COOL ....

I don't know what to say other than thanks, that was a beautiful THANG!!!!


ALoco...Very nice words about Mr. Odinseye. What you said about him was very cool..


Inimounts...I just threw this idea out there a few days ago. How we, or if we decide to do this(mock draft challenge) I suppose it would be up to you as how you want your mock to look. My vote would be do the mock as if you were the gm. Try and make it as realistic as possible. Then we can compare them to Irelands draft. It was just an idea to have a little fun, and do something different then the same debate we have everyday. The more people we can get to participate, the more fun this whole exercise will be.

This is what aloco said w/o the typo:

"I SENSE YOU DO HAVE A MEAN BONER ON YOUR BODY ,IT'S VERY INVITING AND COOL ....

What a scik bazztard this aloco is

aloco is falling in love with odinseye. how sweet.

Bad as you all think Palmer is he's still never had a season within 10 QB points as bad as Henne's best year.

Palmer should have been better last year because the Bengals had so many "weapons" on offense? Are you kidding me with that? HENNE HAD BRANDON MARSHALL! He's better than T.O and Ochocinco combined, look at T.O's numbers with the Bills, another crappy team but without a good quarterback.

You people are ridiculous, you deserve a year of Henne.

Please, do not bring Palmer to this organiztion...do not wish to see another Pennington situation!

you wouldn't necessarily be against bringing in another veteran qb to serve in the same capacity as pennington for the right price. we do need to solidify the quarterback position so we do need to have some veteran backup along with some new, young blood.
so, kolb wouldn't be the best way to go because he's young and unproven. palmer is too high priced. vince young would be ok if it was in a backup capacity. then, you have one of the many quarterbacks coming out of college this year. but, do you keep four quarterbacks on the roster? i've seen some video of brandstater's college career and he looks mobile and seems to have a nice arm. however, what is their thinking where he is concerned. is he going to get some snaps so they can try and bring him along and have him ready if henne goes down in a game or does he remain on the practice squad for another season? inquiring minds want to know.
anyway, the quarterback situation is very intriguing. it will be interesting, to say the least, to see how they address it.
now, let's talk about tawain jones. just kidding.

Earlier. a few of you were speaking about a "mock draft" comparison...?

I am game, post it on April 28, before the bell rings...

i am in

dm1dolphan,

If we bring in a FA QB, I hope that guy is younger than Henne. Oh wait, there is no such worthy FA QB in this league.

Let's get a 1st round QB in this years draft...Mallett, if he is even thre at #15.

Tawain Jones? Another subject intirely... but worth discuss

Painful candy restroom egret.

This mr. Potato Head pop up is driving me crazy!

Oh well. I could turn it into a new drinking game.

Everytime I see it, I'm going to do a shot of cheap Vodka!

I got a new topic of discussion:

**Whatever Happened To Soiled Bottom?**

I suspect a peculiar "aroma" emanating from his basement sparked a domestic violence dispute.

Though Mr. Bottoms didn't raise a hand to anyone in the home, the responding Police Officers arrested him just the same.

My best guess would be that he's in a Federal Penitentiary somewhere in the South East doing time for misappropriations of medical marijuana prescriptions.

Anywhoo..................

FINE!

Nobody wants to talk about Soiled Bottoms either, huh?

I don't know......how about Spoonge Bob then?

Who do you guys think is banging Sandy?

Patrick?

Squidward?

Come on, you know one of them is banging Sandy.

I doubt it's Mr. Crabs you know, cause that would just be...........Ewwwwwwwwww!

Odin,

My guess would be Larry the lobster, lol.

Odin,

Mr. Potato Head must have you feeling pretty good about now.

....Armando.What gives? Your getting lapped by your fellow beat writer Mr. Kelly. He posted that Deangelo Williams has expressed some interest in bringing his talents to South Beach.

This would be a huge pickup. I know some people are going to kick and scream, and talk about his injuries. This is a valid concern. But if healthy. This guy is an Elite running back that does it all. He can even BLOCK(for those on a few nights ago)Free agency is always a risk. For all that want that explosive all purpose threat. Williams is that guy. He would look very nice in Aqua and orange.

Darryl I like it that way, I can almost guarantee most of our mock drafts will be better than irelands, how pathetic.

Btw I see 'us' keeping Ricky and floating Ronnie.

....Also Williams has never averaged more than 17 carries a season(17.1). So he is relativley fresh. He hasn't been hammered with carries so he still has some yards left in those legs. Running backs usually hit a wall, and that's it. This happens fast. So it is understandable if you think Williams is a sucker bet. I would be willing to make that gamble.

Me and two of my Sons watched Transformers(again).

As the trailers were playing my 6 year old was getting very excited. He looked up at me and said, "I LOVE Meghan Fox".

I asked, "You do?"

He answered, "YEAH, I want to kiss her". Then he paused and with a devilish smile he whispered, "All over".

As I wiped away a tear of pride and joy, I thought to myself, Me too Son, me too!

inimounts...If we had to pick between Ronnie, or Bong Pipe...I would take BP. I just think he is better then Brown. I would be suprised to see him in a Phin uniform this season, especially after his comments after the season. It is more likely we would re-sign Ronnie, just because he is more of a company guy.

Now if it was up to me, I would try and make a play for Deangelo Williams. I would say ses la vi to both Brown and Pipe, draft a running back in the mid to late rounds, and let the rookie, Sheets, and Lex fight it out for the second spot.

....Lol @ 2:03..That is good stuff!

Obey the commands of Telly Savalas, for He is Lord.

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