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Still on the Carson Palmer bandwagon as the Fins best hope

Yes, I am still on the Carson Palmer trade bandwagon.

Laugh if you want. I've been there before. Folks mocked when I was all alone on the Ricky Williams trade bandwagon in 2000 -- except for Williams, who called me from New Orleans to express his interest in the idea, and Dave Wannstedt, who pulled me aside and asked what Williams had said before admitting he'd love to make it happen. It happened nine months later.

So, yes, Carson Palmer to the Dolphins? I continue saying it can definitely happen. I said it before. I'm repeating it now. Iit can happen. 'm for it. I will not allow it to die until it is, well, officially dead.

And it is not dead at this point.

The fact is, quite to the contrary. Every shred of evidence (and it is rare evidence, I grant you) coming from the Bengals is they might actually be inching toward the idea of trading Palmer. And every time I ask around with the Dolphins nobody says, "Dude, you're dreaming, move on."

Everybody in the Dolphins organization I've talked to about the idea so far has said things like, "Carson's pretty good," or, "I like Carson," or, "It's one of our what-ifs."

After I wrote the column on Palmer saying the Dolphins view him as a singular special options above guys like Kyle Orton or Vince Young, I told a high-ranking Dolphins personnel man about my column. He didn't say, "We're definitely going to do that." He did say, "He's a great kid. That would be something to think about for a long time. But he's not available right now."

So I'm not abandoning the idea until the idea deserves full abandonment. And that time has not come. Quite the opposite.

The latest twist on this possibility is an ESPN report stating the Bengals are among the teams that would be interested in Philadelphia's Kevin Kolb. Obviously, neither Kolb nor Palmer can be moved at the moment as the league is in lockout mode. But when that lifts, free agents will move, trades will be allowed. And everyone believes Kolb will become available via trade.

If the Bengals, who own the draft's No. 4 overall selection, get a QB, you should think they won't be involved in the Kolb sweepstakes. But if they don't get a QB there, Kolb will be a possibility for them. And if Kolb is on campus in Cincy, Palmer is no longer needed, thank you very little.

So the Bengals will have the choice of allowing Palmer to sit on his backside and get nothing for him. Or they will have the option of trading him.

The scenario becomes more complex if the Bengals pick a QB early because while it suggests Palmer is no longer in their plans long-term, it obviously doesn't close the door on him immediately the way Kolb's arrival would.

A little aside here: I have spoken to a league source whom the Bengals approached about QBs well before the story about Palmer wanting out of Cincinnati broke. The source told me in January that the Bengals were going to be looking at QBs as they prepared for life without Palmer. So at that point, they were readying for the possibility of moving on without Palmer.

Maybe they knew the storm that was coming -- that Palmer, sick and tired of being sick and tired in Cincinnati's often dysfunctional organization, wanted out and was vehement about it to the point of threatening retirement. Maybe way back then, the Bengals believed Palmer had played his final game for them.

I know, I know. Publicly, the Bengals' stance continues to be Palmer is their QB and he will play in Cincinnati or retire. Hey, doesn't that sound like the stance Bill Parcells took on Jason Taylor in 2008? Yeah, that was the stance the Dolphins had just before they traded Jason Taylor to Washington.

The point is, that is the public stance a team must take to keep hopes of getting value in return for a player. If the Bengals even hint they are moving on from Palmer, the price for him drops. And they do not want that because they would want the highest return possible for him.

I know some of you are reading this and telling yourselves, "The Dolphins shouldn't want Carson Palmer. He's not that good."

That is not an opinion without merit. But it is one without facts.

What if I told you Miami can add a QB that threw 26 TD passes last year in what was considered a bad year for him? That number of TD passes, by the way, represents 11 more TDs than Chad Henne threw and nine more than Miami threw as a team.

Yes, Palmer threw 20 interceptions. But Henne threw 19 interceptions and Miami threw a total of 21 altogether.

So plug those stats into Miami's 2011. Would the Dolphins have been better with 63 more points on the board and one fewer interception? Yeah, I would tell you they would have been. No doubt.

Are you aware Palmer completed 61.8 percent of his passes? Are you aware his QB rating was 90 or better in six games, including a 345-yard performance against the Patriots last year? Are you aware the guy was playing behind an offensive line that made Miami's seem like a Pro Bowl unit by comparison?

Are you aware Palmer won't be 32 years old until December? And Tom Brady, the QB everyone in the division hates to face, will be 34 years old during the same season?

Palmer would make the Dolphins a playoff contender, an actual true playoff contender, immediately. Maybe you hate that idea. Maybe you like the idea of picking Ryan Mallet or Andy Dalton, or Colin Kaepernick or Ricky Stanzi or Christian Ponder and hoping he becomes a good player by 2012 or 2013 or before the Rapture. Maybe the idea of being irrelevant for a couple of more years doesn't bother you.

Me? I know Palmer is good now. I think he'll be good for another five years or so, so the notion that adding him is only a temporary fix is bogus.

I like the fact there are little shreds of evidence that Cincinnati might warm to the idea of actually trading Palmer. 

And I'm not going to drop the idea of the Dolphins getting him until is it absolutely out of the question. That time has not yet arrived.

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First!

From one dysfunctional organization to another.
He'd fit right in with the Dolphins.

Agreed Armando.
Palmer could help out - maybe in a transitional role until we find out who CH7 is or until we find Marino's replacement.

Armando,

I like the Palmer idea if does not involve a 2011 draft pick above a 4th rd'er. We really cant afford to lose any premium draft picks this year.

I also wouldnt be opposed to a 2012 3rd rd'er at best. Palmer just has a little to much age on him for me to thinking about giving anything more for him.

Im really beginning to like Mallet, the draft's top "longball specialist" at #15. If we got both Palmer and Mallet, palmer would make the perfect 2 yr bridge into Mallet.

If this happened I believe Mallet could be the next Aaron Rodgers when given at least 2 seasons with clipboard in hand watching Palmer.

May not matter though.
Coach TS seems more interested in a ground and pound approach than an air assault.

Lets cook our own dinner. Mallett with the first pick FTW

let me remind everyone that the chad henne led dolphins beat the carson palmer led bengals last season. a late int by palmer sealed the victory. sound like anyone else we know??? *cough. . henne. .cough*

Couple of things Armando....

Carson Palmer is tired of the losing in Cinci. He wants to win NOW! What makes you think he'll be any happier in Miami. If this guy is to believed he has $80 million in the bank, do you really think he's going to lay it on the line for this team, if they aren't going to win a Championship.

This would more than likely cost us a pick or two for NEXT year's draft. Aren't you tired of going into every draft without our full arsenal of draft choices.

Lastly, in your blog you say Palmer 'will be good for another 5 years or so.' Really? I didn't think he ws any good LAST year. You're telling me he's automatically going to get better once he's out of Cinci? ?I don't buy it.

Yes MJ...

Mallet in the kitchen is a very attractive idea.
He could present a nice menu.

1)Deep ball special.
2)Accuracy sandwich.
3)300 yard per game buffet.

Just to name a few items.

Interesting thought has entered into my head. Ryan Mallet was the next in line to succeed Henne at Michigan. Then the Rich Rodriguez thing happened. Thus I equate to "suspending fate."

Now the proposition again presents itself to Mallet suceeding Henne. This time on the pro level. Could it have been fate all along that Mallet has been destined to succeed Henne and Michigan's hiring of Rodriguez merely delayed it?

I surely hope this proposition runs thru the mind of Jeff Ireland on draft day. LOL..........

DB,

You flip-flop more than any other person I know. For the longest time you were adamant that we shouldn't be trading any more draft picks. Now you're suggesting we trade a 4th this year or a 3rd next year for Palmer. I wish we were competing GMs in the real world. I'd eat your lunch every time!!.....

I believe the Ryan Mallet ship will only gain more steam in Dolphan nation as draft day looms closer. Mallet is beginning to seem more and more of a no brainer for us.

Moreso than even Mark Ingram.

I would love to have Palmer on the Fins for the right price... I agree with DB, a 4th rounder this year, or a 3rd next year, nothing more than that.. He is going to be 32 and has had knee and elbow issues so I don't see him being worth more than that.

Marty, thanks for participating in the blog but the logic you posted is, with respect, whack!

So Henne beats Palmer and the Bengals and that means something to you about how good Palmer is or is not?

Henne also beat Aaron Rodgers and the Packers in Green Bay and Rodgers threw a costly interception that day. Does that mean Henne is better than Rodgers?

Sorry, not buying that thinking.

Carson Palmer > Ryan Mallet.

Every day and twice on Sunday.

CraigM,

I would rather have a gm that flip flopped before the actual draft than become set in stone on one player early before the draft. To me that shows the guy is really doing his homework and may have seen some of his own fallacies on a player or his team's situation.

As a gm, you better had thoroughly done your homework because once you make your selection you cant take it back. So as a gm, you have totally up until "DRAFT DAY" to flip flop as much as you like until you finally get it right. And so do we as fans.

Where do you guys get this s*hit a guy cant continue doing more research to uncover his own fallacies about guys who they think would be best for this team? You guys thinking this seem to wanna hold us all on trial in the court of insanity!

Geesh, I hope our Gm doesnt see it this way when consider the best player for this team! LOL.........

STANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZISTANZI---BRADY'S COACH LIKES HIM AND THAT IS ENOUGH FOR ME. HE DREW BIG COMPARISONS TO TOM BRADY PER BRADY'S COACH.

does anybody else feel that Carson Palmer just has daunte culpepper written all over him? please can we get a kid who actually has initiative to prove himself and doesn't "have 80 mil in the bank". for all we know, carson may just pull a ricky one day after our o-line lets him get sacked 13 times one day

One more thing I must make you think about:

Palmer threw 20 interceptions.

Yeah, he played Pittsburgh's defense twice and Baltimore's defense twice. Those guys are tough to fact twice a year.

Armando, Im not disputing Palmer isnt better than Mallet. Im saying I would like the idea of getting both. Then we can have a Aaron Roger-like guy to groom behind Palmer.

Isnt Palmer beginning his 10th season? So wouldnt it also make sense to have a guy like Mallet to groom behind him? LOL............

Armando,

Something for you to think about. Mallet is considered hands down the best deep ball qb of this draft. He's the absolute best qb to groom behind Palmer.

If we did this, and considering Palmer's current age, in about 3 seasons we could have our own version of Aaron Rodgers here in Miami. I think its an absolute perfect situation to have both Palmer and Mallet.

Dying Breed I mentioned Ryan Mallet a few months ago and you jumped all over me about how horrible of a qb he was and how he is no better than Henne. Why now do u have a change of heart?

Acquiring Palmer is a great idea. Henne is not a leader and is bad on targets over 15 yds. Throws check down 9 out of 10 times. Even if we draft a Q.B. would anyone in their right mind want Henne mentoring him? I'd give a 3 this year and another 3 next , (conditiobnal). If the Fins make the playoffs. The draft can't solve everything and since teams can't sign FA first there's no team in their right mind can think that way. ( except the Pat's ). To the comment Henne led the Fins to a win over Cincy, Cincny's defense was ranked 19th last year, Henne has to win sometimes and Q.B.s better than Palmer have lost to worst teams , so it's a moot point!

palmer would be an upgrade thats the obvious but i still think we should be in the run for kolb

i agree with DB we shoudlnt cough up more than a third round pick 2012 we wouldnt cough anything up this draft cuz it would be after the fact of the bs thats goin on

craig m dude why are you always crying about something everytime i come on here you complaining about something ..dude chill..
no1 here is an expert dont take stuff so literaL

PALMER - MALLET - HENNE ALL DAY!!
and in that order lol

I agree with you Armando, I like Carson as well, he would definitely make us better, way beter then Henne

I like Mallet because I dont think Henne will ever have the deepball accuracy to become a lights out deepball qb. Thats what we need. Grooming that kind of qb behind Palmer would ensure our ability to become a one of the top nfl offenses for years to come.

Palmer alone is only a short term solution. I think it was in one of Armando's write ups where he quoted a gm as saying the wrong time to look for a qb is when you need one. That's why already having Mallet in house can reap huge dividends 3 years down the line after Palmer.

takeafterme,

Research my boy, research! I found that his greatest strength is our greatest weakness. "THE DEEP BALL ACCURACY"! LOL.........

FinFan, Palmer has heart , remember his comeback after knee surgery from the cheap shot by the Steelers. Culpepper bruised his knee in Miami sat out longer than necessary and when he came back, I beleive with Oakland, and scored a TD. in our stadium his classless act of pointing to his knee like nothing was ever wrong? Palmer/heart, Culpepper a joke!

I'm not for picking Ingram at 15 he's not # 15 caliber. I'm not for picking anyone at 15 in this draft to tell the truth on offense. I think we must trade back and get a second rounder. Mikel Leshoure, Mallet, and Pouncy should be our focus. We need to try to get two out of those three players if we are to make a substantial difference on offence. It doesnt matter the order we do it but we are going to need to trade down in the first and then back up in the second in order to pull it off.

no armando, what tells me if palmer is any good or not is cincy's 4-12 record last season, their 4-11-1 record in 2008, their 7-9 record in 2007, and their 8-8 record in 2006. the 2009 season for cincy was an abberation much like our 2008 season was. also, like our 2008 season, they got creamed in the playoffs. all im trying to say is carson palmer is an older chad henne who makes the same types of mistakes over and over and cant be counted on for any consistancy. in that case, give me the younger guy for one more season. also, palmer supposedly had a lot more talent around him last season with ocho, owens, graham (te?), their slot reciever, and benson.

Sureshock, Henne needs to be the waterboy!

Marty, the problem with Cincy is they have a "PLAYERS" coach! What that means is the inmates run the Asylum!

Tomorrow is the big court date, what's gonna happen???

Mallet's had great workouts for every team out there. Only the rest of here will be shocked when hearing his name called in the 1st rd. Not those teams he worked out for.

Someone's taking Mallet 1st rd and it s very safe to bet on it! LOL.........

one of the wraps against Mallet is that he at times makes bad decisions. "Dave Hyde" broke it down and found 90% of Mallet's bad decisions came when his pass protection broke down in more than one place along the offensive line.

Isnt that when even the great qbs of the game make bad decisions too? LOL...............

That part of Mallet's "bad decisions" rap seems highly coachable to me! LOL...............

How about a deal that has an esculator clause. Say we give them next years 3rd up front and if Palmer gets us 10 wins or into the playoffs we give them next years 2nd instead of the third.

Seems fair if he make a difference. And I think Palmer would have made a difference in some of those close games we lost last year.

I still like the Vince Young idea. Mix him with say Mike Lashure and Ronnie or Mike Lashure and Ricky. Or any of the free agent running backs and you fix a lot on this team. Because that means you used the first pick on a stud O-line guy to help make the holes that Vince and Lashure can run through.

I still dont want Ronnie to go, just because I know he is going to end up in New England. Hate being the minor leagues for that crappy team up North.

Go Dolphins!! Hope can still happen with the right pick-ups.

Getting C. Palmer it's going to be very expensive, Armando. To acquire him, it will cost us either high draft picks next year or very good players we have now, and that, we cannot afford. If the FO can swing a deal for him that will not harm us, I believe he would be a great asset to the Dolphins.

I have never been a Dave Hyde(SS) fan but I highly appreciate how this guy took the time to put in hours of research to thoroughly find what the true pros and cons are about Mallets.

This guy actually did some very outstanding work. Mallets pros seem to far outweigh his cons.

Carson Palmer is a step backwards

No Thanks!

Waste of time

As a diehard Bengals fan, i've had the pleasure (is that the right word?) of watching the bengals over the years. 5 years ago, Carson was on a fast track to being one of the leagues greats. Then Kimo von A-hole rolled into his knee. Then his elbow was messed up. Then we signed TO...which all led to last year's performance. You point out some of his "great" stats. 345 yards against the Patriots? They played prevent the entire 2nd half after already having the game in the bag. The 19 interceptions? I think 6 were returned for TD's. 60% completions? Check down's and safe throws.
Not saying Carson can't be great again, but I don't think he's the answer for dolphin fans.

Shula71,

2012 3rd rd'er and thats it. If Palmer was slightly "younger" I would agree. He's entering into his 10th season so that would be the deal breaker on an esculator for me.

Even with Palmer we still need to have an eventual new starter by Carson's 3rd year here. Thats why I propose also drafting Mallet to groom behind him.

Are you aware Palmer completed 51% of his passes against Carolina, 44% against Miami and Baltimore, 55% against buffalo or 45% against the Jets.
How about that he threw 2 picks in 5 games, and 3 picks in 3.
Sure I would love to have palmer, but i sure as hell don't to trade anything for someone whose best days are behind him. He won't be worth the price unless it's a 4th rounder

Palmer like everyone says has never been the same since his major injury. I would like Kolb or Orton. Orton is a gun slinger. Look at the stats.Denver threw the ball on almost everydown.Allot of teams would cut him. He was so bad last year.

Palmer's a 3yr stopgap at best. Then what'll we do? Begin the qb search all over again. Henne looks to be a perrenial middle of the pack starter at best.

wow, you guys got some good stuff going on here. keep it up. i'm just going to sit back and continue to read.

yes go and get palmer! and once again the guy who was set to replace suck boy henne at michigan will also be drafted by the dolphins and will learn from a real qb like palmer and suck boy henne will be looking stupid once again!

Hene seems he'll always be a flicker not a flame. At #15 this maybe our best opportunity to grab a qb like Mallet for quite a while.

Especially if we become stuck in perrenial 10-6 to 9-7 seasons. That guarantees picking 18th-25th for quite a long while and its very tough to find the right qb perrenially picking from those spots.

ahhh long coma session

this is like a timewarp

we've had this debate

cp isnt even worth a 4th rounder (we need our 4th rounder)

u guys been ripping it over the last few days

mr mallet seems mighty popular all of a sudden

or is that just deep ball dreamin, we need a rookie qb, he'll do me but i'm gonna change the subject

I got a question (for the fo haters)

how long would u give cowher, gruden, fisher or whoever to get to a championship game coming off a 1-15 season and a sh*Tload of crap drafts?

i agree we've gone nowhere in terms of results the last 2 years and we haven't got a franchise qb (nor imo do we know if he's a complete failure)

our running game regressed bigtime last season
(oline and rb's and poss passing game to blame)
but not many called that one preseaon

however whilst not a great team we are young with some very good players developing from season to season

we have a solid core

i am a long way from being sold on sparano (who is one of the least inspiring media coaches out there) and ireland but i am also
a believer that people should be given enough time both to progress their plans and learn from their mistakes, sparano is a first time head coach there are plenty of experienced head coaches who would be shown more time/faith and plenty who came good after worse in their second posts having not had long enough in their first

its ironic that both henne and sparano's futures are going to be tied and depend on how well they've learned from their pasts and that they are locked out from each other

i for one think that from ireland down there is more potential to build a successful franchise and i'm happy with daboll's appointment

they're not going to get everything they need in the draft - u guys keep on proving that! so they're gonna have to show fo and coaching skills to get results

ok let the abuse fly, i'm ready to suck it up!


DB @ 5:58,
i'm thinking more along the lines of the stock boy at Piggly Wiggly. i wouldn't give up anything too valuable.

Coincindentally Dolphans,

Being stuck in perrenial 10-6 to 9-7 draft land also means perrenially getting knocked from the playoffs. It also means there's gresat longshot to ever sniff a conference championship game or even greater longshot to sniff a SB appearance.

Go get Mallet at #15 no matter what qb we get in fa or trade! LOL.............

I agree with you DB, take mallet, but if we're taking him dont bring in Palmer also, let Henne give it a go for another year while Mallet learns the ropes and use the money we didn't spend on Palmer on a guard

I say that I wouldnt give up anything greater than a 2011 4th rd'er because even if we didnt get Palmer I like Ricky Stanzi there.

If we could get Palmer for a 2011 4th rd'er and draft Mallet at #15 I would still be pleased with that. Palmer as a 4th rd pick? Guys I would take that deal all day long! LOL..............

DB,
personally.....i'd rather stanzi.

The 4th rounder would be a great deal, but i doubt he'll go that cheap. My major issue is his big ass veteran QB eating up cap space that we could use to improve other positions

QB contract*

wellll....Tprice does have a good point there fellas.

Tprice,

Bringing in both Palmer and Mallet couild also solve the backup qb situation too. By year 3 Mallet should be ready to start with Rogersesque impact.

Then at that point Palmer could stay on 2-3 more seasons as his backup. That way we also keep someone in camp to keep Mallet highly competitive after he's transitioned as the starter 3yrs down the line.

...I don't know how a trade would workout until this CBA mess is cleaned up. But the addition of Palmer would be a nice pickup. The guy is a solid quarterback, and would be a huge upgrade right away. We have no idea what it is like playing in a disfunctional orginization. So perhaps a change of cities, and atmoshphere is just what the doctor ordered for Palmer.

There was an interesting idea about an escalating scale as far as a trade. That is a good idea. Fair for both sides. I would much rather have a proven commodity then any of these unpolished rookies. None I believe are worthy of a first round choice(for our team)

Lets say that tommorow the judge rules in favor of the players. And buisness is returned to usual. Player trades, and free agency continued. What would be a fair trade? Teams hold early round picks close to the vest, rightly so. To me if we could aquire a proven veteran quarterback for the price of a third round choice we have to pull the trigger. We could still make trades to get that pick back, or go the route of free agency to fill some holes.

Why take the risk on a gamble(we don't know how a 3rd rounder is going to perform) When we can get a player we know can be a difference maker? What player in the third round is better today then Carson Palmer?

Me? I know Palmer is good now. I think he'll be good for another five years or so, so the notion that adding him is only a temporary fix is bogus.


Armando Salguero

Got to take exception to this Armando.

I'm not going to argue that he wouldn't be an upgrade. However, to suggest that he's the long term answer that will lead us to the promise land is ludacris.

Palmer has been on a steady decline for quite a few seasons now. Switching to a "troubled" Miami team that can't even install it's new offense doesn't bode well. Pushing 32, rickety knees and 80 million dollars in the bank aren't real promising equations either.

I think Palmer could be a great influence on whomever we find to finally succeed Marino, but a long term solution? C'mon MAN!

PS: Speaking of Marino, I have to agree with what he said about Palmer. A 3rd rounder, period! NOTHING MORE!!!!


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