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Still on the Carson Palmer bandwagon as the Fins best hope

Yes, I am still on the Carson Palmer trade bandwagon.

Laugh if you want. I've been there before. Folks mocked when I was all alone on the Ricky Williams trade bandwagon in 2000 -- except for Williams, who called me from New Orleans to express his interest in the idea, and Dave Wannstedt, who pulled me aside and asked what Williams had said before admitting he'd love to make it happen. It happened nine months later.

So, yes, Carson Palmer to the Dolphins? I continue saying it can definitely happen. I said it before. I'm repeating it now. Iit can happen. 'm for it. I will not allow it to die until it is, well, officially dead.

And it is not dead at this point.

The fact is, quite to the contrary. Every shred of evidence (and it is rare evidence, I grant you) coming from the Bengals is they might actually be inching toward the idea of trading Palmer. And every time I ask around with the Dolphins nobody says, "Dude, you're dreaming, move on."

Everybody in the Dolphins organization I've talked to about the idea so far has said things like, "Carson's pretty good," or, "I like Carson," or, "It's one of our what-ifs."

After I wrote the column on Palmer saying the Dolphins view him as a singular special options above guys like Kyle Orton or Vince Young, I told a high-ranking Dolphins personnel man about my column. He didn't say, "We're definitely going to do that." He did say, "He's a great kid. That would be something to think about for a long time. But he's not available right now."

So I'm not abandoning the idea until the idea deserves full abandonment. And that time has not come. Quite the opposite.

The latest twist on this possibility is an ESPN report stating the Bengals are among the teams that would be interested in Philadelphia's Kevin Kolb. Obviously, neither Kolb nor Palmer can be moved at the moment as the league is in lockout mode. But when that lifts, free agents will move, trades will be allowed. And everyone believes Kolb will become available via trade.

If the Bengals, who own the draft's No. 4 overall selection, get a QB, you should think they won't be involved in the Kolb sweepstakes. But if they don't get a QB there, Kolb will be a possibility for them. And if Kolb is on campus in Cincy, Palmer is no longer needed, thank you very little.

So the Bengals will have the choice of allowing Palmer to sit on his backside and get nothing for him. Or they will have the option of trading him.

The scenario becomes more complex if the Bengals pick a QB early because while it suggests Palmer is no longer in their plans long-term, it obviously doesn't close the door on him immediately the way Kolb's arrival would.

A little aside here: I have spoken to a league source whom the Bengals approached about QBs well before the story about Palmer wanting out of Cincinnati broke. The source told me in January that the Bengals were going to be looking at QBs as they prepared for life without Palmer. So at that point, they were readying for the possibility of moving on without Palmer.

Maybe they knew the storm that was coming -- that Palmer, sick and tired of being sick and tired in Cincinnati's often dysfunctional organization, wanted out and was vehement about it to the point of threatening retirement. Maybe way back then, the Bengals believed Palmer had played his final game for them.

I know, I know. Publicly, the Bengals' stance continues to be Palmer is their QB and he will play in Cincinnati or retire. Hey, doesn't that sound like the stance Bill Parcells took on Jason Taylor in 2008? Yeah, that was the stance the Dolphins had just before they traded Jason Taylor to Washington.

The point is, that is the public stance a team must take to keep hopes of getting value in return for a player. If the Bengals even hint they are moving on from Palmer, the price for him drops. And they do not want that because they would want the highest return possible for him.

I know some of you are reading this and telling yourselves, "The Dolphins shouldn't want Carson Palmer. He's not that good."

That is not an opinion without merit. But it is one without facts.

What if I told you Miami can add a QB that threw 26 TD passes last year in what was considered a bad year for him? That number of TD passes, by the way, represents 11 more TDs than Chad Henne threw and nine more than Miami threw as a team.

Yes, Palmer threw 20 interceptions. But Henne threw 19 interceptions and Miami threw a total of 21 altogether.

So plug those stats into Miami's 2011. Would the Dolphins have been better with 63 more points on the board and one fewer interception? Yeah, I would tell you they would have been. No doubt.

Are you aware Palmer completed 61.8 percent of his passes? Are you aware his QB rating was 90 or better in six games, including a 345-yard performance against the Patriots last year? Are you aware the guy was playing behind an offensive line that made Miami's seem like a Pro Bowl unit by comparison?

Are you aware Palmer won't be 32 years old until December? And Tom Brady, the QB everyone in the division hates to face, will be 34 years old during the same season?

Palmer would make the Dolphins a playoff contender, an actual true playoff contender, immediately. Maybe you hate that idea. Maybe you like the idea of picking Ryan Mallet or Andy Dalton, or Colin Kaepernick or Ricky Stanzi or Christian Ponder and hoping he becomes a good player by 2012 or 2013 or before the Rapture. Maybe the idea of being irrelevant for a couple of more years doesn't bother you.

Me? I know Palmer is good now. I think he'll be good for another five years or so, so the notion that adding him is only a temporary fix is bogus.

I like the fact there are little shreds of evidence that Cincinnati might warm to the idea of actually trading Palmer. 

And I'm not going to drop the idea of the Dolphins getting him until is it absolutely out of the question. That time has not yet arrived.

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if we really do get mallet and henne is not doing the biz, we should get him out there early (5-7 game depending on results/ints not 3 years) the jets managed to look after sanchez, there's no better place to learn than on the job, henne can back-up

if henne's doing the biz then it doesn't matter but then mallet might be trade in 3 years

DM1,

With both Mallet and Stanzi, we dont have a very good fallback point at backup qb. Henne's a fa in 2012, so he'll probably land where he feels he has the best chance to start.

That means in 2012 we have 2 2nd year qb's at the top of our qb roster. There's just too much that can go wrong with that and we would have no choice but to sign a vet anyway.

Plus in the future only one of them can start. Mallet maybe most suited to do that.

odinseye,

A 2012 3rd rd'er. We cant afford a 2011, we're already missing a 2011 2nd rd'er.

I think we need to spend the 2011 #15 on Mallet. Regardless of what being rumored about him, he's had outstanding workouts with every team. In the end that rules the day and he's highly unlikely to be around if we trade back.

I think some of these mock experts will be shocked when they see Mallet come off of the draft before Blaine Gabbert.

I dont know about anyone else but Im not totally ruling Mallet being the 2nd qb off of the 2011 draft board. I keep hearing he's having great workout after great workouts!

Everyone keeps saying Blaine Gabbert is "checkdown charlie". He maybe most likely to fall draft day and Mallet 's most likely to rise.

If Gabbert falls to #15 I rather stay away because we already have a "checkdown charlie" in Chad Henne. LOL......................

Armando you are a genius! Please use all your powers and make this Palmer trade happen-tomorrow! Because these fools believing Henne deserves one more chance are high in outer space. This teams first immediate goal is to get a quaterback if remotely there is a chance to compete with the Pats & Jets. Then with the 1st pick, we get Ingram, third pick the best O-line tackle/center /guard. Resign Ronnie Brown. Then go to town in free agency for a center or a guard-possibly Robert Gallery? Wow now we`re talking playoffs. Here this Ireland!!!

..If we were to trade away our third pick for Palmer. Is it set in stone that we still could not recover that pick? We have set forth a few scenarios where we gain an extra third by moving down a few spots in round 1(a much more likey scenario then aquiring a second) So in essance if we were to do this, and aquire a proven quarterback. 1 we establish our goal of finding some competition. 2 we still have the same amount of picks we just move down a few spots, still enabling us to draft quality players and erasing any questions about the quarterback spot.

Armando, you are fast climbing the latter of 'biggest douche in history.' Of course, I still come to this blog every day and hang on your every word because I am the douche that makes the biggest douche in history seem small by comparison.

Your frenemy,

douchepan!

When I think of it, Mallet could be Marino-esque, in termes of feeling he has a chip on his shoulder and has something to prove to everyone that slighted him.

After the false drug allegations surrounding Marino coming in, highly devaluating his draft stock. Didnt Marino play like a guy with a huge chip on his shoulders from the get go replacing the injured David Woodley?

Seems from that point Marino never looked back, did he! LOL.................

...I disagree that we can ill afford to ante up a third round choice for a proven player. If you are on the side that says Palmer isn't the asnwer. That is fine. But how long can we "build toward the future"? Haven't we been doing this for a good part of a decade? An aquisition like this would be a bold move. It could be a game changer, with good risk-reward.

If this franchise wants to keep the course, and develop it's own players that is fine. Normally a solid stance. But this head coach and front office is working on borrowed time(IMO) if they can make a move(contraversial as it may be)that can gives the team a better opportunity to be a contender. I say do it.

Thank God someone agrees with me!!! I really am not crazy. Palmer in Miami is a dream and needs to be a reality. That's cool; I never knew that THAT'S how the Ricky Williams deal went down. Someone's excited! Go Fins!

DD,

Like I said in a previous post in a previous blog. This regime is good when it comes to sound decisions. Its the championship decisions that may be beyond them.

So yes, what you proposed would be sound and definitely along the lines of thier thinking. But do we really want to become stuck in the perrenial line of just being very competitive?

Being very competitive has 2 very distinct shortcomings. 1. You'll never win a championship. And 2. You'll never get the draft traction, posititon wise, to get draft that high impact player to put you over the top.

..One thing about Mallet. And I think these allegations are completely bogus. It seems like the pundits are quick to assinate his charachter without any solid proof. It is wrong, and a sad commentary about this whole proccess. Where is the proof of this aledged drug use? They are all rumors. Produce some proof, some real evidence before slinging mud at the kid. It is ridiculous. I am not a Mallet guy, and think he would be a disaster here. But as far as all the innuendo, and talk of him being a drug user. Where does this come from? Any help?

A 2012 3rd rd'er. We cant afford a 2011, we're already missing a 2011 2nd rd'er.

DB,

We could afford to use a 2011 3rd if it lands us our starter. I mean some people are advocating using a 1st on a guy like Mallet or Newton, who wouldn't even see the field for a couple of years.

I don't think we could afford to try and do both. It's an either or proposition.

I don't want to argue about Mallet. I know how you feel about him, so "for now" we'll have to agree to disagree. One of us will owe the other an "I told you so" sooner or later-LOL.

I also don't like Newton, so I would lean towards the immediate starter in Palmer.

I wouldn't be opposed to giving up a 3rd rounder this year for Palmer. He would come in and start right away. This would be an immeadiate short term benefit as well, because we could address another need, that will contribute sooner, with our no. 15.

If I had to do it one way or the other, I'd prefer giving up a 2012 3rd rounder.

This way, I could still draft Stanzi this year. Palmer as the starter, Henne as the young backup still searching for the "IT". Then Stanzi and maybe Thigpen battling for the right to hold the clipboard.

Well, if he's hurt, then forget it. We don't need that.

Palmer is a win a championship now answer only if you "now" have all of the pieces in place to move forward that way. Imo, we're still at least 2 seasons away to becoming that.

Yeha I like Palmer as a stopgap, but giving the 3rd pick for him in 2011 only impedes our progressing, not having a 2nd rd pick too.

Therefore a 2012 3rd rd pick for Palmer makes far more sense. We are not a team that can afford to go into the 2011 draft missing both a 2nd and 3rd rd pick.

If Palmer were at least a couple seasons younger then I fcould see the value of going into 2011's draft with neither a 2nd nro 3rd rd pick(given up for Palmer). He's on the backside of his career now(10th season).

There's no guarantee he'll still be playing after 2 seasons from now. Our 2011 3rd rd pick and having no 2nd rd'er is far too much to gamble on that!

Odinseye,

Thats why now even Im advocating using the #15 on Mallet. Bringing in Palmer we also need to be looking 3trd down the road too. Palmer's at the backend of his career when a qb's play begins to slowly decline.

Hell, he may play 5 seasons, but its more likely than not those final two will better as a backup. Given his skill are most likely on the decline now(10th season).

We DO need a stopgap. It is not realistic to expect Henne or some unproven rookie to lead us to the playoffs. We need an experienced, efficient QB to tide us up for a couple of years.

DD,

I don't know if Mallet used drugs or not.

I do know that when asked by reporters POINT BLANK, he declined to deny the allegation(s).

This raises a GINORMOUS red flag for me. I mean, think about it. If yours or my multi-million dollar livelihood hung in the balance, would you decline to deny the allegation?

I know I wouldn't!

Dying Breed...Good post@ 6:50

I think that aquring Palmer would be a move that puts us in the conversation as contender. Quicker then if we drafted,and tried again to groom a rookie.

How serious a contender would be left to be seen. But it would be a step. It fills the biggest void any franchise needs to be a winner. Competancy at the quarterback position.

I agree with what you are saying 100 percent. So my stance on Palmer may sound contradictory to the point. Normally, or in the best case scenarios. Your franchise isn't forced into making moves like this. you can make your own bed with the players you choose to develop. But in this case, with the history of failures at this position(post Marino) This could be that player that turns the tide of the franchise.

Could he be an absolute mistake? Of course. It could be a situation like McNabb to the Redskins. And this should be disscused. That was a disaster for them, and as a franchise the Redskins are a poor model as far as overreaching for players past their prime. But I think this is a gamble worth taking. Like I said earlier. The risk(if the trade was just a 3rd rounder...this is important) is worth the reward.

Just curious, was anybody here ever 20 years old? Did you ever do stupid stuff that most 20 year olds that are more adventurous than the average boy scout do? You want a leader right? Or someone waiting to be told what the rules are?

C'mon folks, is it really an issue if a player experimented with drugs once or twice or for a year, or if he stole a watch or cheated on his girlfriend? If the player is playing well now and appears to have his head on straight now, forget the past. These 'character issues' people bring up are nothing worse than half the players in the NFL did anyway. Way overblown, nothing but media fodder.

Do you want a sissy mammas boy or do you want a football player?

Odin... That is something that I would not talk about with the media. We don't know how he answered that question with the teams. It isn't any of the medias buisness. He is dammned if he do, dammned if he don't. What matters is what the teams think.

On a side note. Aren't these allegations about the weed pipe? I understand that before you pay a guy millions you want to know if he has been out puffin'. But really it's frickin' weed. I know this franchise has a history with players and their love affair with the bong. But a little weed??? Purely medicinal right?

Some of you sound like you wouldn't have picked Jim Brown if you found out he didn't floss every night!

DB,

Point taken. I can't argue with the logic or the reasoning.

I simply believe Mallet and Newton will be the next two biggest busts to be drafted.

Not an attack, no provocations, Just my opinion. If I'm wrong, just take solace in the fact that you'll be able to rub it in my face for all eternity!

Good stuff today... I wish I could stick around and chat. Gotta roll for awhile.

Any of you guys up for the little mock draft challenge I proposed the other night? It could be fun. Pick a time, and day before the draft.And we can compaire our own mocks to the real draft.

DD,

Im not saying Palmer's a mistake. Just saying the Palmer move is best followed up by taking Mallet 1st rd.

If Palmer makes us a 1st rd playoff team over the next 2-3 seasons its still highly doubtful he makes us a championship calibre team. Just making the playoffs just guarantees drafting 20th-25th during those years.

That always keeps you just out of the reach of the high impact game changing players you need to get you over the top. We'll continue to be just a sound team making sound decisions that never gets over the top.

Carson Palmer is is a good pick in free agency...I like him better than Kolb, and Marino thinks he'd be a good choice for the fins. Of the possibles FAs, he'd be the one.

odinseye,

No offense taken. However, based on being a 1st rd taken qb, I think Gabbert has the greatest potential for complete bust. Gabbert is a "checkdown charlie" and like Henne, highly inaccurate with the deepball.

yea palmers numbers
based on bengals constantly being blown out
armando you dont know squadooosh as usual
No face for tv
horrible high pitched voive for radio
Armando y el amigo , lol !
By the way, I like little boys.

Palmer is my #1 option for a getting a free agent QB but I just don't see how its going to happen.

With Palmer alone I can well see us being a 9-7 to 10-6 team. That also means being to far away during draft time to take a young impact qb when Palmer needs to replaced in 3yrs.

Thats why a Palmer acquisition needs to be followed up with Mallet at #15. It'll be a while before we sit as low as #15 again. So when Palmer's on the outs how do we get a really good young qb then?

0x80,

I understand your point.

However, boyscouts or "high on's", these guys are applying for multi million dollar positions in which their performances directly reflect upon those that "hire" them.

DD,

I have to disagree. I know Mallet doesn't owe the press anything, but if he was innocent he should have said so. I would have.

Just like the guy being charged with sex offenses. If I didn't do it, I ain't taking no kind of plea bargain period! I don't care what they're threatening me with.

If Mallet had some minor indescretions, big deal, I don't give two sheets. However, if he's a fullblown crackhead, I would like to know BEFORE I spend the high draft pick and sign the million dollar checks.

Does anyone know if Marino was asked about this pre-draft? If he was, I wonder what his answer was?

The biggest enigma for me among the QB's in this Draft is Colin Kaepernick. I don't think we should discount him. Running QB's dont last long in the NFL and he's coming from a second rate program plus he has a long delivery. However, he has that kind of arm a la John Elway, that falling backwards he can complete a pass accurately 50 yds downfield. Also, he appears to have a shining Bulb and leadership qualities. What you think or know about him, People?

Odin, the owners have a right to ask, but if they feel the guy is clean and dedicated now, now that they have a real opportunity to do something, it doesn't matter if it was merely partying as opposed to serious addiction. It should be between the player and the owner and not for the media to magnify things out of proportion as though the guy is one step away from being a street junkie.

Put yourself in a young college players spot, in front of the press, at the podium, on stage, on camera, grandma and uncle willie watching, yeah maybe I wouldn't want to tell the whole world I toked the good will pipe either.

Now we've got to listen to all this BS from DB about Mallett....the second coming of JC!!

First it was Ricky Stanzi and how he had 'the best pocket presence in the draft. The same kind of pocket presence that Marino had'. Then it was Kendall Hunter, the second coming of Walter Wayton. Now we have to listen to how Mallett is the best QB in the draft hands down. Don't by the hype people....check the source.

DB, my flip flop comment earlier was for the simple reason that you ROASTED people on here for giving up any more future picks. 'Stop the insanity' was your comment to many on here. Now you've got us giving up a fourth this year or a third next year for Palmer. It has NOTHING to do with do research. It has EVERYTHING to do with not sticking to your principles. I'm gald you're not running the show brother....because our team would be in the basement.

0x80,

I get it. I agree.

However, when in front of the press, why didn't Mallet JUST SAY NO(pun intended)?

Well you all have to remebr theyhave th worse line in the nfl.. Besides i dont want to wait another 4 yrs for any of these guys to matter. I say throw in the 3rd pick and give them one of our celebrity stars.. Maybe J lo..

That's the history of the fins. One washed up players and pipe dreams.

CRaigM,

YOURE NOT THE DAMN BLOG POLICE HERE. BUT YOU MAYBE THE GREATEST IDOIT HERE. WHY DO YOU INSIST UPON BEING THE BLOG NAZI HERE.

HITLER WOULD HAVE ABSOLUTELY LOVED YOU! i CAN POST WHATEVER I FEEL HERE. JUST BECAUSE YOUR BRAIN WORKS LIKE "FROZEN JELLO" DOESNT MEAN THAT MINE HAS TO WORK IN THAT VERY FLAWED MANNER TOO.

HEIL HITLER TO YOU BUD! LOL............

Armando,

I'm no expert at being on the wagon.

But I've been in the band and I've driven the wagon till the wheels fell off.

Point is, there's a difference between jumping on the bandwagon and swinging from the NADS!!!!

ValHalla!!!!

Fair enough odin. My point in general was just that the media goes way overboard on these character issues and in the end it rarely sways the GM's.

Kiper actually chastised Miami for picking Vontae, saying he was a problem kid. The reality was one silly altercation in college, talking back to the coach or something trivial.

DB,

Remember you don't own the blog....we'll listen to your pleas and then you'll be onto some other player next week. Just watch guys...

Carson Palmer is washed up. Ive had a the unfortunate opportunity to watch the bengals play and Carson Palmer has been on a steady decline for 3 years. His numbers are similar to his pro bowl days because he ends up playing against back ups after hs team gets blown out in the first quarter. Carson has thrown a TON of bad balls that shouldnt have been thrown at all and hes no better than Chad Henne. I have a few friends that are bengals fans and they play a game where they bet on how long it will take him to throw an interception. At least Henne has a future and forces the other team to keep their starters on the field. Carson will cost to much and isnt even a good starter, Id rather see how Henne pans out. And yeah take Mallet in the first.

Geesh, watching CraigM think is about as exciting as waiting for a bowl of frozen jello to melt inside of a walkin freezer.

Remember the source guys....he told us Ricky Stanzi was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Do you really want to put any stock into a guy who changed his mind as often as DB does.

CraigM,

Youre just an idiot, complete idiot. I guess I may as well be your central target because as uisual, again your brain's stuck in "jello freeze"! LOL......................

Remember the source guys. Best he can do is get into name calling...

ALo-con-us strikes again folks. Again under another assumed alias! LOL.........

Now youre "not dyingbreed" uh ALo-con-us?

And you wonder why you have "absolute zero' credibility here! LOL...............

CraigM,

Or should I say "jello freeze" brain. All anyone has to do its look up and see you had the cucumber up your a*ss coming at me unprovoked! LOL...............

Dan Marino agrees with you Armando. I agree with both of you.

Palmer is an upgrade. Get him!

DB,
i'd rather have two guys, in mallet and stanzi, that can give us quarterbacks for the future rather than waste time on one, as odin says, is on a steady decline over the last few years. i believe we start with the youth at qb and build for the future. if henne doesn't pan out or leaves due to free agency we should be ok with either of these two guys.

Whoa, WHoa, WHOA!!!!

Frozen Jello sucks and Brain Freeze is even worse.

However, cumcumbers up the arse is where I have to draw the line!

That's not what I had in mind when I said:

Bottom's Up!!!!

I will no longer being anymore responses to Craig "jello freeze brain"M nor Al0-con-us and his 1000 self confusing aliases! Life's far too short and so are thier intelletual levels! LOL...........

odinseye,

Craigm's brain is the jello and his skull is the walkin freezer. As for the cucumber stuck up this arse, it could be a permanent prebirth condition! LOL.............

Then you'd be doing us all a favour DB because that would mean a few less posts from you.

Seriously guys, how do you putting in stock in a guy who changes his opinion on things every few days. I really think he's just looking for attention and love, so I will do my best to ignore him also. Plenty of good intelligent bloggers on here that I don't have to lower myself to a 'name caller'.

Cheers guys!

dm1,

I'd much rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!

I wouldn't mind the Palmer trade, but it would depend on the cost. I'm not for sending a first rounder for him.

For some unknown reason I'm starting to trend towards Mallet as our first pick. It would make sense if we were able to trade down for a second as well.

CraigM,

Just to prove what an idiot you are. Know one here's interested in your opinion about me. Im not a blog topic and no one's interested in posting about be.

You can be such the idiot and total douche you were born and predestined to be and youve fully delivered the proof on numerous occassion here to prove it. LOL...............

Im beginning to more expect it will be Mallet and not Gabbert that will be 2nd qb taken of of the draft board. I cant guarantee it will happen but if it does itll have zero shock factor on me! LOL.................

So much for saying you weren't going to respond to me any more DB. You had to flip flop on that one too, eh?

That's the kind of guy you're dealing with guys...

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