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What's up with the Dolphins' 2nd round picks?

Starting off today, the Dolphins have signed Will Allen to a one-year deal according to a source, thus surprising no one. There you go.

Running back Daniel Thomas missed the Dolphins regular-season opener on Monday and coach Tony Sparano made it clear Tuesday the decision to make the rookie inactive wasn't that difficult.

“It didn’t end up being too close," Sparano said.

Thomas was limited all last week. He'll likely be eased back into practice this week but his status is not at this moment certain for Sunday's game against Houston. That may or may not be a big loss because what we saw of Thomas in the preseason and training camp wasn't exactly eye-popping awesome.

He was there. Just there.

And while that does not suggest Thomas will be good or not going forward, it does say he hasn't gotten off to a fast start. The makes me ask the question that you saw in the headline:

What's up with the Dolphins and their second-round picks?

This team has done very good work with its first-round under the current administration. This team has done good work with undrafted free agents under the current administration.

The team's second-round picks under this administration? Not impressive so far.

Phillip Merling was Miami's first second-rounder selected under this administration. He contributes on the team's defensive line shuttle but he hasn't exactly had a great career so far. He missed most of last year with an Achilles' injury. He didn't meet expectations his second season after a solid rookie year. He's sitting behind players the Dolphins drafted after him.

Chad Henne was also a second-round pick in 2008. He's been a starter for three years and has a 13-15 record in those three years. There are big hopes he can become a good, consistent quarterback. But can he be considered anything but a wait-and-see pick yet? We have to wait and see.

In 2009, the Dolphins picked Pat White with the 44th overall selection. Everyone knows how that turned it.

The club also took Sean Smith with the 61st overall selection. He is a starter. He is solid. But is he great? Is he a difference-maker? Not yet. He had the opportunity to be that last season but struggled to hold on to the seven passes in his hands that he could have converted into interceptions had he held onto those passes.

Last season's second round selection was Koa Misi. Starter. Solid as a rookie. We are in wait-and-see mode with Misi.

So the summary of Miami's work so far in the second round?

A backup defensive lineman. A quarterback about which everyone is hopeful but hasn't arrived yet. A bust quarterback. A staring corner. A starting outside linebacker. And a running back that still hasn't get his career started.

By the way, I asked NFL Network analyst Brian Baldinger what he thinks of Thomas. Baldinger a former NFL offensive lineman studied all the draft picks this year.

"Is Daniel thomas going to help this football team? I don't think so. I think they missed on him," Baldinger said.


"He's a point of entry back which means he needs a hole to make yards rather than be good enough to make the hole himself," Thomas said. "He runs too upright. He's not going to give you anything on third down and he doesn't run with power. He has to build speed to get power. He's not going to push the pile. So I think he's going to be a very limited back for the Dolphins."


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I'M STILL STUNNED FROM THE PART WHERE HE SAID THEY DID WELL IN THE 1ST ROUND. In the past 3-4 years they drafted LINEMEN OVER FRANCHISE RATED QBs which was a definite NEED for the team!! And everyone knows it's the most important position for a football team. Instead they invested in a wait and see QB who STILL HASN'T DEVELOPED yet after 4 years. REALLY?!?

Something we agree on Joe...lol! Enough churches in the area now!

disagree with your assessment that the pats played soft with the lead. they were trying to score points on offense that late in the game and their defense was still putting pressure on henne and covering the receivers like they did all game. it wasn't henne's fault that point were left on the field. it was a true team effort on that one. also, your suggestion that it's not hard to rack up that many yards when you can't run the football is somewhat flawed considering the o-line's pass blocking sucked most of the game. henne was sacked four times, constantly under pressure and made some nice throws even when he was being hit. give the guy some credit. henne showed he WAS the leader on the field monday. nobody else showed up.

Some observations:

1) I remember a quote from former Dolphins linebacker Ernie Rhone. It went something like this: "When Coach Shula used to exercise us to death on the practice field, I just knew I had to be the last one to drop."

The Dolphins used to win alot of games in the 4th quarter in the Orange Bowl from superior conditioning and a built-up tolerance for excessive humidity. Was it so hard to predict that when they started to conduct their practices in an air-conditioned bubble, they would lose that advantage?

Stretching this analogy beyond all common sense, is it so hard to predict that China, which everyone (incorrectly) predicts will overtake the United States as the world's economic superpower, will suffer a massive economic failure 5/10/20 years down the road when it turns out that so much of their wealth and accounting practices are based on fraud and manipulation? And then all the economic geniuses will collapse and cry out: "But who could have predicted that a totalitarian country would have fudged the numbers?"

Certain things are SO PREDICTABLE, that only intellectuals can't see the train wreck down the line.

2) When I was 4, I had a huge crush on Betty Rubble. I now understand that this is a very common crush among boys.

3) Some genius commented on another one of Armando's entries that if you take away Brady's 99-yd. TD pass to Wes Welker, then Brady and Henne had virtually identical production in Monday's game. This is a classic example of "Statistics lie and liars use statistics." What a silly point. If we take away the great catches made by Brandon Marshall and Anthony Fasano on poorly thrown balls by Henne, then maybe Henne has half the production of Brady.

Don't get me started.

4) I recently watched Bill Maher's "Religulous." Not surprisingly, Maher gives very little time to respected, well-spoken defenders of organized religion, and instead puts forth a hodge podge of religious freaks, weirdos and other assorted miscreants. The saving grace for the film is that it is generally funny. But it would have been nice to see an intelligent defense of religion from Billy Graham or Dennis Prager.

5) I don't know. I was kind of impressed by Daniel Thomas during the pre-season. (I watched all 4 games on the NFL Network.) The only thing that disappointed me about Thomas was his goal line play.

6) I don't know what it is about tank tops, tube tops and halter tops, but they can make an average woman look positively edible.

Dude have you ever actually watched threes company or are you old enough to remember the apple dumpling gang? Stephen Ross looks nothing like Don Knotts (Mr. Roper). The shtick isn't funny because there is no resemblance. You need a new 'look alike' to use.

"poorly thrown balls?" are you kidding me. with a comment like that i think you wouldn't know a poorly thrown ball from a well thrown ball if one hit you between the eyes. GET A CLUE before you make a comment like that.

Good to know devils, c63 & myself weren't the only ones to notice the good & the bad.

I really think people were so thrilled that he played better that it clouded their judgement or didn't see the bad which really did cost us points.

Progress was made which is a good thing.

Sadly, in a contract year & with a coaching change possibly on the horizon, I think we'll have a new cast of Qb's next year.


in all fairness, Ross did pay to have the baseball infield 'sodded'. The Marlins are still around, aren't they?

Funny thing
1) if Henne completes that 4th and 1.....and
2) we kick to NE and Brady DOESN"T complete the 99 yarder to Welker...
Then they finish with the same passing yardage 418
And the game is tied at that point
As they say... dreaming is free

Why does Sporano keep his job...he gets outcoached every week?

Oh Jeff don't get me wrong, I didn't say I have a problem with bible verses. My church does a fine job every Sunday and I would rather my sports writers stick to talking about sports. It would be as if I went to church and our priest started giving us the injury list and inactives for the week. Come to think of it that might make church more exciting.

i find it ridiculous that with the front office failures this team has experience that have gotten national coverage (harbaugh, orton) we continue to have our mini front office failures (Changing mind on Larry Johnson, cutting Lou Polite without having a real backup plan other than the rookie Clay, and now changing our mind with Will Allen) it tells me this team had no idea who was good.bad in training camp. Maybe becuase it was the players weren't doing any conditioning drills, which became obvious on monday night.

Buckle in for another roller coaster

Look... Henne torched a bad Pats secondary. They've been dicking around with their dback field for 3 yrs now. Truth is - he cant make the touch passes, screwed up multiple times on the goal line and took an incredibly stupid sack when on the goal line when he should have tossed it out the back and reset next play. His head is not in the game either - I can't even begin to fathom how 3 years in , that he has no concept of where he is in the play clock cycle, either forcing a timeout, or giving the defense a freebie because he leaves himself no time for using cadence or hard count. He is so painfully slow setting his personnel that and ends up getting under center or in the shotgun with less than 5 seconds left. D linemen must love this guy - they know they can time their jump all the better because he's got no leverage. He's got a nice arm, but mentally this guy is soooo far away at this stage of his career that it just isn't happening. He doesn't get it. If you can't see that watching the guy even on tv then you don't get it either.

Hey! Antonio "Che" Montana, that's blasphemous. WE are The Miami Dolphins. Have been and WILL ALWAYS BE!Our team doesn't need to be relocated to sell tickets. With a competitive team, Us Dolphans will return.Money is thight. We need to spend it on things of value.


Your commment was not only hurtful and cruel, but it has forever sullied our burgeoning friendship.

When Ingram got passed by, DeMarco Murray was next on my list of backs to nab. When we passed by him, I thought we blew it. Thomas is a big body, so I get it a little, but so is Murray. And Murray is a more skilled runner. I've been trying to watch the Cowboys to see how Murray pans out, and so far hard to tell without a lot of playing time (Felix Jones starts). Time will tell, but my opinion of Thomas from his college highlights was the same as the "experts" analysis - runs too high, can't create his own lane, not shifty. Now from pre-season, add "doesn't run hard enough". Hope the consensus changes on him with playing time. We can't afford for him to be a bust.

Was Yesterday Again Manny Being Manny?

Is Today Armando Being Armando?

Is It A Hispanic Thing? I Think Not. Just 2 Buffoons Who Just Happen To Be Hispanic.

Terrible 2nd rd picks? One was, we all know that was Pat White. Actually if Armando ever took the time to do any research before again spewing his garbage. He would find oue 2nd rd picks are actually performing no better or worse than the NFL average for 2nd rd picks.

Does thois make or 2nd rd selections as overlly awful as Armando would have us believe? I think not!

Hell, in 30yrs, Don Shula didnt exactly set the league on fire with his 2nd rd pick selections either.

Do a little research Armando, you may fing that even the great Don Shula may have batted .500 at best as far as drafting high impact 2nd rd'ers. Your opinions and predjudices dont qualify as fact!

So basically Nathaniel you are saying that you want to eat women for dinner and you haven't recognized that China has already surpassed us as the worlds largest economic power? Guy right now we are Chinas b**ch. They just gave us a verbal spanking a month ago calling our politicians "reckless and self serving" when describing the nations economic disaster that is causing problems all over the world. Fudging the numbers? lol this isn't a waste management company. We owe them billions as well as many others who owe them. Besides all of the workers we are keeping employed in China with our over seas spending and buying up of anything made in China. Okay I'll stop.


Henne started after the 3rd game of 2009, and that is after a full year on the bench learning, studying, practicing. So you want to nitpick and say he is not a 3rd year starter (4th year pro), simply because he didn't start those first three games? I say ridiculous!

Isn't it more practical to just say he is a 3 year starter than say he is now 2 games shy of a 3 year starter? And doesn't the time on the bench count for ANYTHING? Or was he drinking pina coladas on the beach that whole time?

I am noticing a pattern here of some bloggers magically trying to reduce Henne's actual experience level. Lets be clear:

4th year pro
3rd year as a starter (unless you feel so much better saying he is 2 starts shy of that)

Ozkar....eazy homie...your boy marc anthony, will smith, dwade, gloria, the williams sisters and the rest of the circus will follow the team out west!!!

just a plain awful team fellas. we cant change it till end of year

Chad Henne not a good 2nd rd pick? He's a starter isnt he? He also happens to be currently ranked the #4 passer in the NFL.

Henne had his best preseason as a Dolphin. Then follows that up immediately coming out of the chute as the NFL's #4 rated passer.

30-49(61% for 50 balls thrown), 416yds, 2 td's passing, 1 td rushing, and a qb rating in the 90's. Even the qb rating would have been higher had Hartline not caused a tipped ball interception.

We'll have him walk on water for you Sunday Armando. OK? LOL...

Again with the Henne bashing? I'm not even a Henne fan!!!!! And I'm not bashing him BECAAAUUUSSSEEEE we have so many other things, bigger things to worry about right now. What is this strange obsession with Henne? It's really weird to see a defense collapse so thoroughly, an o-line not be able to block, and a running game that is non existent go unnoticed by some while they focus on the shortcomings of the one person who actually kept the team in the game. The Hartline throw at the goal line is on Daboll and everyone agrees. That could've been a run or play action in a 2 te set with a throw to a te on a short out route. Instead it was a call for a play that should never be made inside the 5 yard line because throwing a corner fade from the goal line is one of the toughest throws in football. Brady never makes that throw because the coaching staff recognizes the low percentage of success and doesn't ask it of him.

My point is that if we run that ball in it's a 7 point game with plenty of time to go. Henne did a fine job getting the team in a position to score many times. His few failures as a young QB in this game going against HOF QB Tom Brady pale in comparison to the failure of the coaches to put the team in a position to win that game in my opinion.

we're still going 11-5, sparano said he went easy on the players this year in tc, so we got torched by the pats, our d will pick it up, as long as sundays offense is real then we're gonna do fine, plenty upside both sides of the ball, 15 games left, can't wait till sunday, jets and pats to get worse as season goes on fins to get better, just worried if the bills are for real, we have to sweep them

keep the faith

time to beat the texans

Henne's had his best preseason performance ever. Follows that up coming out of the chute as the #4 rated passer in all the nfl. Still Armando speaks of him in terms of bust.

Armando, please seek AA! LOL...

hilarious dying, digging deep for that one. thats like me saying currently c.newton is second best passer in nfl. dying i dont care what he does when we are getting destroyed. course there defense is gonna sit back and relax. henne in a close game will tense up like always and throw ints. and daboll was a joke, the 4th and goal play was so bad we cant even describe it. it takes a really dumb man to call that. and yes i agree our running game is horrible

wolf are you smokin the doobie from both ends?

Bring in Portis and use him and Johnson in a power runing game. Bush can't play that roll and even if he could its wasting his talent, he's far more effective as the catch-and-run back he was in NO. With him, Bess and Fasano taking short and midfield along routes and with hartline and Marshall stretching the field we could have that multi dimensional passing attack the Patriots used to bully and mock the dolphin defense the other night.

Im getting the feeling Armando would have been more pleased to see Henne completely fall on his face in the season opener. It would have given this dumbass blog topic more credibility!


wheres all u guys who acted like gates was gonna destroy the pats? u guys ripped me for saying pats would win by 2 tds and now everyone hides

all i can say is, if you taped the game, go back and watch it again. henne was under constant pressure from the pats defense and he made a lot of nice throws. if he had 3 to 4 seconds to sit back there and survey the situation before throwing it would have been a different story but he was getting rid of the ball quickly on most plays. the guy deserves a lot more credit than what he is being given. you guys are too critical of his performance. he was the only reason the team was within fourteen points. who else, in your opinion, deserves credit? he had no running game to help him out, the o-line did a terrible job of pass blocking and the defense couldn't stop the pats offense but he kept coming back on the field and competing until the very end. the sad stat of the day was his one int. which, again, wasn't his fault.

there was people in here who were dead serious when they kept saying we had a top 5 d. this d is horrible, worst secondary in nfl


Youre so simple. You only half comprehended my post. "Henne followed up his best ever preseason with his best ever performance as a fin qb".

Im I still moving to fast for you to fully understand?


Two sticking points today- Henne and Daniel Thomas.

I have to say about Thomas- He is NOT a bust, yet! Anyone who claims he is a bust is not very knowledgable. He MAY turn out to be a bust, and if you think he WILL be a bust, you have every right to that opinion. But a rookie who hasn't even played in a regular season game is NOT a bust yet.

And Henne had a fabulous game, for him. No, it wasn't perfect, but give him credit. Dusty Bottoms still wants to call him a piece of crap. That's CRAZY. He is night and day from the last two seasons. If you can't see that, you aren't looking.

Nobody talks much about stats when you win. When you lose, stats are torn apart to look for some consoling positives. Stats can be interesting, intriguing, and compelling, but nothing replaces the only stat that matters, was it a W or a L?


in all fairness, Ross did pay to have the baseball infield 'sodded'. The Marlins are still around, aren't they?

Posted by: flimfamfan


True. But I bet you he sodded it to reduce risk of injury to his players which could potentially end up costing him a lot more money then re-sodding the field. Also, it wouldn't shock me if the NFL and ESPN said they would give him the early season night game, but they wanted the field to be in good shape for TV.

Hey mando I'm so sick of your column! It sucks. Go be a pats fan. Get off henne.

devilsadvocate, I say again, f**k Henne. I don't care about Henne, I am not a Henne fan, nor have we ever been on a date with eachother so I have no bias. I speak on fact and the fact is 13-15 as a starter equals 28 games played. That is just under 2 years as a starter no? 3 years would mean he has played 48 games. He has played in 20 games less then you are saying and you're calling me a nit picker?! Hell why don't we just say he's been a 12 year starter because he rode the bench in pee wees as the back up qb.

I don't give a crap about Henne so everyone can stop with the one camp or other BS. I'm in the Dolphins camp. I care about the Miami Dolphins and don't pick players as my "favs" because they do this or that. I have no posters of players and I would NEVER wear a jersey, (because I'm a grown man with my own name), with the name of another dude on the back. Every time someone points out an inaccuracy it doesn't mean you are in love or hate a specific player. WTF is with you guys.

wrong again dying. maybe u forgot your post before that when u made a big deal of henne being the number 4 passer in the nbfl after one week, guess u forgot about that. i hadnt even read your pointless one about preseason yet, apology accepted

The loss to the Patriots can help the Dolphins if they learn from it. The NE Bellecheats showed the Dolphins exactly where they need to focus their immediate attention. There were MANY mistakes by the Dolphins, no doubt about it and that sucks. But forget your heart, did your brain tell you we were going to beat NE in the first place? The main question heading into this 1st game was Henne. He passed that test. It was the defense that failed. You can always point to coaching too.

Physical fitness and conditioning was a problem but that’s fixable. Defensive game planning was lacking but that’s fixable too. We do need an upgrade at DB, hopefully Allen fills that roll. If he doesn’t, it’s time to look for other possible upgrades (trade, FA) immediately!

By the way Brady and ESPN can suck my nut. I hate them so much! They seriously just need to F already and stop this flirting crap. I almost freaking threw up on Tuesday. No ESPN till Sunday lol.

dm1, sorry you disagree but that changes nothing. Why are you asking me to give credit? If you actually read my post, you'd see that I did that. Right there, you're losing credibility .

You take offense to the criticims part, when it's completely justified. Why?

NE was up 21 with 6 min to go. FYI, their offense never lets up on anyone. Your reference to the welker td.

2 drives under 6 minutes netted 100 yards or more. They were blitzing the same guy every play(Arrington). Racking up stats when the game is essesntially over means stats lie. Notice it's always the losing teams talking about stats? Because they are for losers.

And FYI, he played well(credit) but he left points off the board. Can you really not accept that? Games are usually decided by a few plays a game.

Go back & watch the goaline fades to Marshall & to Hartline in the 3rd & 4th quarter. At least 3-4 of them. They all went out of bounds. His wr didn't have a chance to catch them.

You ever see Calvin Johnson, V. Jackson, Dez Bryant, A. Johnson, Fitz out jump, outfight, the DB and make the catch in the end zone? Happens every game, more than once. Randy Moss made a living off it. Marshall is the same type WR.

Henne was throwing those potential TD passes out of bounds. That's a criticism but it's a LEGIT one. It happened. It's real. I'm not trashing him. If you can't come to grips with it, you're not living in the real world.

As well as Henne played during the game, and he did(credit again), we shouldn't ignore some of the biggest passes in the game sailed out of bounds. We also have to accep that 100 or more yards came when the game was already decided.

I'm not sure how you debate that, it's a fact.

2 words you should understand are unbiased & objectivity. Something some people on this blog lack.


Absolutely correct! Armando making a HUGE REACH on the Thomas bashing.

Armando Is AN Idiot. Plain And Simple! Anyone completely following this over opionated anf far reaching blog of his may need thier heads examined too!


finsfan72 henne looked awesome last year in the 3rd game vs the jets on mnf, remember. he will do that couple times a year. doesnt make a season. consistent, like the good qbs, is what we want

and very true joe, henne missed least 3 easy td passes. marshall could be unstoppable with an accurate qb

I hope they use D Thomas and LJ this week. We need to see if one of them can handle 3rd/4th and short. That would be all the difference. If not, then we should all be screamin' for POLITE!!!!

Imagine Polite punches it in when we were at 17-31 with plenty of time left in the 4th. We'd be 1 score away with momentum. Maybe enough spark to pump the defense into stopping Brady for one series and give us a chance to tie or win...

henne competed for the win on every down. yeah, you could look at it and say stats aren't important but his stats are what kept this team in the game. don't try and undersell this and say the pats defense played soft. a belichik defense never plays soft. they kept their starters in the entire game on offense and defense. if you think henne's stats don't matter than all i can say is you don't know a thing about the game of football.
people like you have been saying henne sucks. he can't make the throws and all he does is make bad decisions. now he comes out and proves you wrong and all you try and do is discount his performance and say he made easy throws all night to wide open receivers and you have others who say he had receivers making cathces on poorly thrown passes. his accuracy on monday was unquestionable. he missed on a few but he had little to help him in that game. HE WAS AWESOME and you can't stand it because he's not going anywhere. face it, if this team makes it to the playoffs, he will be the reason whey they make it there. you couldn't even begin to comprehend that.

Lets see what happens on Sunday....

Yes he's a 3rd year starter who has only played in just under 2 years of games. I'm nitpicking because I like to see fair assessments and accurate descriptions. If you weren't a Miami fan you would read this and think that Henne has played in 48 games. He has not. That is all.

"He's a point of entry back which means he needs a hole to make yards rather than be good enough to make the hole himself," Thomas said. "He runs too upright. He's not going to give you anything on third down and he doesn't run with power. He has to build speed to get power. He's not going to push the pile. So I think he's going to be a very limited back for the Dolphins."

This proves that Jeff Ireland is not a good talent evaluator.

I speak on fact and the fact is 13-15 as a starter equals 28 games played. That is just under 2 years as a starter no?

Posted by: LouD | September 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM

Thank you LouD. Thank you Armando. There's a long list of Hall Of QB"s who's first 2 yr starting records were far worse than 13-15!


DANIEL THOMAS IS A BUST! When are you people going to realize this? The Dolphins have gone BACKWARD as far as running the ball the last three years. This team can not run between the tackles and don't have anyone who can do it!


And while Chad Henne had a good game, he CAN NOT THROW THE LONG BALL. He is NOT the long term solution to QB for the Dolphins. Period.

The inability to run between the tackles, inability to (still) throw the long ball, and the lack at depth at RB will be Miami's downfall this year, even if the Defense plays good (which I expect it to), and Henne is much improved.

Miami will go 9-7 this year AT BEST. With a key injury or 2, you could be looking at a top 5 draft pick. It could get ugly very fast.

Dolphin Disciple-

It is sickening how far ESPN is up Brady's ass, and the Pats and Jets are the greatest teams in NFL history if you believe the hype from ESPN. Makes me want to puke.

9-7, no way. are u insnane, did u not watch our defense. so sad to see the bills blow by us

So far this year Henne has been consistent. I would just rather wait until he actually falters to start bashing him again. A good game is not good enough for some people. NO, you want a perfect game and if it isn't Tom Brady perfect then you come in and bash him. Where does it end?

The people bashing him said they want to see consistency. Okay, so so far he has shown consistency through 3 games. But now that's not good enough. So keep changing the rules to suit your needs I guess.

you're an idiot; plain and simple. just fact. there's no debating that. you may as well just give up watching the game of football because, apparently, it is too difficult for you to comprehend.


First of all chill bro. I did not make one comment pro or con about Henne. I'm simply rebutting a frequent theme here about his experience level that you brought up once again.

Second of all, you are twisting semantics now. Henne is going into his 3rd year as a starter, he is starting his 3rd year, just like Matt Ryan is starting his 4th year. After 3 years, 48 games you would then be going into your 4th year as a starter.

It doesn't matter. I thought you were going overboard to say Armando was wrong to say Henne is a 3rd year starter because of a difference of only 2 games, and felt compelled to point that out.

And if discussing Henne is crap in your book, what makes any of your topics not crap?

Maybe NFL Network analyst Brian Baldinger should be the Dolphins GM.

Go back & watch the goaline fades to Marshall & to Hartline in the 3rd & 4th quarter. At least 3-4 of them. They all went out of bounds. His wr didn't have a chance to catch them.

Posted by: Joe Schmoe


Same with most bombs. There is no need for safety help because even if a WR breaks open long (such as Edmund Gates), chances are the ball will be uncatchable, likely thrown out of bounds.


lou d i dont have a problem with hennes game 1. he missed some easy td throws, but was much better than normal henne and he actually showed some fire. im bashing the entire team, as a team we are awful. the defense was horrible, worst secondary in nfl and they talk more than any other team. was a joke

I agree. Which is why I don't like how this regime overvalues draft picks. To be fair, I think the entire NFL does too.

There are an awful lot of hof qb's who shouldnt be there if were based on thier first 2yrs as a starter. Im sure at least half of them were far worse than 13-15 in thier first 2yrs.

Do we also include the lousy st's, pass protection, reciever drops, and tipped ball interceptions into Henne's 15 losses? Im sure that was all his fault too.

Geesh some of you including Armand are so ignorant! LOL...

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