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Let the deconstructing of Andrew Luck begin

At least people waited until after the 2010 college football season to start ripping Cam Newton's abilities and professional prospects. The Heisman Trophy winner who would go on to be the No. 1 overall draft pick was allowed to play the season and no one really questioned his ability as the nation's best QB.

(They questioned how much he was playing for -- as in $$$ -- but not that he was a fine player.)

Seems Andrew Luck, the likely first overall selection in the 2012 draft and a Dolphins' target, is already being criticized by folks who aren't really experts on the topic -- starting with former Giants quarterback Phill Simms.

"I think his best quality, by far, is he’s big and strong and he’s going to be able to move and run in the NFL," Simms said on SiriusXM NFL radio this week. "There’s no question. I mean, this guy is strong. The throwing? He manages a game. I see all that.

"But the one thing I don’t see, I just don’t see bigtime NFL throws. I don’t care what anybody says. I’ve watched a lot of him. He never takes it and rips it in there. And you can say what you want but, man, you’ve got to be able to crease that ball every once in a while. We see it every week in these games. Hey, he can develop it but even in the USC game, you know, he’s very careful with it, guides it a lot. That’s what I see. There’s not a lot of rotation on the ball and there’s not a tremendous amount of power. Not that you need to have that power arm. I’m not saying you’ve got to have that exclusively but, man, it sure helps when you can do that because there’s four or five plays a game it is about arm strength. And sometimes quarterbacks who don’t have it, they pass those plays up. Why? Well, they go, ‘I don’t know if I can make that throw,’ so they throw it short. That’s why I’m a little more reserved in my judgment than everybody else."

Simms is an NFL Super Bowl champion QB. He gets paid to analyze games. He's a media star. But he has no credentials as a scout or personnel man. And he's not passing along information he has heard from a scout or personnel man. So one has to weigh his expertise and draw your own conclusion on how much you buy his view or not.

There's also this: Last week Simms said the Indianapolis Colts would not select Luck because Peyton Manning wouldn't let them.

Yeah ... right.

Seems to me Simms has a latent Andrew Luck burr somewhere.

But ...

Suppose for a minute he's right. Is this the first of a coming chorus of voices that will tear at the fabric of Luck's kingly garments from now until April? The supposed first overall pick endures such treatment starting every offseason. Simms has begun the exercise a bit early with Luck.

I personally don't know as much football as Simms nor have I his credentials. I only pass along what two scouts and a couple of experts who study tape are telling me about Luck.

And they like the kid a lot.

And in the highlights I've watched, he looks darn good to me! I would love to see more 14- to 16-yard outs but that doesn't mean he can't make the throws. He attacks the seam of the defense like he woke up after two years of sleep and just spotted breakfast. He is athletic to escape the pocket. He has nice footwork. His release is quick enough and has a high release point. His accuracy doesn't seem to be an issue.

Does that mean Andrew Luck is going to be a Hall of Famer? Of course not. Like everyone else, I want to see more and have the experts see more so they can tell people like me what they think. But to already say he doesn't impress?

Let the paralysis by analysis begin!

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#1 Dolphin, What you mean your not here 24/7, your a regular blog poster so technically you are. Im here everyday, technically I'm "working".

fin, GREAT analysis of why a rocket arm doesn't equate to championships. There's FAR TOO MUCH put on have a gun. As long as you can make all the throws (and I've seen Luck make pretty much all of them) then that's all that matters.

Plus, how do you NOT respect this guy's anticipation, his judgment, his leadership, his athleticism? The guy is an all-around player, and any team that passes on him just doesn't get it.

Spiderman, these days yes, but not all the time. Far from it. I have kids man...LOL!

Oscar, you mentioned stockton saying we would win a few games which would prohibit us from getting luck.

How am I off the subject? Please, try to keep up.

I remember the "experts" questioning Aaron Rodgers arm strength when he was sliding down draft boards... Seen that guy throw a ball lately?

Mark in Toronto, the difference with the 49ers is they have playmakers. They have a pretty decent o-line with one of the best guards in the NFL, they have Crabtree, Vernon Davis and Frank Gore. Defensively, they have what many people consider the best linebackers in football. They have a solid foundation. We, on the other hand, have very little.

Boulder,

I read that we would in a tie breaker scenario with Indy get the #1 pick. Have actually read it in a couple of places. On paper your right in the AFC South the winning percentage for opponents must be inferior to the AFC East. Not sure what AFC/ NFC opponents that dvision has but remember we play a 3rd place schedule and the Colts had a 1st place schedule as div. champs in 2010 and I believe that is were the tie breaker gets measured but I`m guessing so let me see if I can`t find somethng which gives us a more defintive answer.

We have Jared Odrick and Koa Misi. If you watch these guys highlights on YouTube it's unspectacular yet we draft them.

Just name one big play Misi has ever done please?

What about Odrick? and dont say that interception that drop in his hands

What I don't get is a poster like Sanford, saying Matt Moore can be a good QB in the NFL someday.

SERIOUSLY DUDE? SERIOUSLY?

What is it with people who don't want to believe their lying eyes? I see it everywhere. I saw it with Thigpen, where otherwise intelligent posters here who were hammering Henne in the next sentence were praising Thigpen. Where's he at now? Oh yeah, being the backup he'll ALWAYS BE in the NFL.

I see/hear it everyday here in DC. I laugh at these fools who earlier this year said, "we don't know what we have with Beck. He was highly touted out of college." And four years later, he STILL doesn't have a win to his record, and is another QB slated to be a permanent backup.

I'm surprised more people aren't still clamoring for Pat White here. Even as late as end of last season some people were saying we let him go too soon. They believe something NOT EVEN Pat White believes, otherwise he'd be in the NFL trying to be a QB.

I'm not sure what that hard. I seem to be able to separate the good QBs from the bad. I must not have that "deaf, dumb and blind" gene that makes it hard for some to just accept that some players really aren't anything more than losers.

I would take a qb who can place the ball where it needs to be on long throws and on timing patterns any day over a guy who has a "rocket arm."

Didn't Phil Simms win a Super Bowl playing the QB position?

I would take his opinion more than that moron Mel Kiper that ESPN keeps employing.

Then again Jamarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf did turn out to be studs...right?

The bare bones of this matter, imo, is that this Sport that fascinates us, is a Team sport, and, like a Pyramid, if one block fails, It will come tumbling down. Now, can any one of Us point to that one failing block. imo, No.

Spiderman, we don't draft for talent. Stop searching for it. We draft for size.

Simms sounds like he's doing an analysis of himself.

DC, these are the same fans who think Chad Henne can be a top 10 QB in the NFL. The same fans who thinks B Marsh is a monster. The same fans who think Santa Clause is real. Get it theyre all delusional.

Spiderman, I have to say I'm shocked about Odrick. Reason I say that is I watched him play a few games at Penn St and he was a beast. I always go see a few Penn St games since I have a good buddy living in Zion, PA, a little town not too far from State College. He was some player. I don't know what's going on with him. I have a feeling he's more suited to play in a 4-3 defense, but that's just my opinion.

When I read about the moves of the FO and what the coaching staff is doing, I just want to say: "Hey KC! The circus is in town. The clown show is especially entertaining. We hope you enjoy the show."

Spiderman,

Doesn`t it seem like every year Simms is ripping the College Q.B.`s coming into the next draft?? I have yet to hear him talk well about a Q.B. prospect except ofcourse when he talked about Chris Simms and threatened Texas Coach Mack Brown that if he didn`t start him over Major Applewhite he would tranfer. I think at this point it`s about publicity and getting him on the sports tak circuit. I read were some make mention of him as a HOF player and man I wonder how much they saw him play that team went with it`s run game lead by Joe Morris and OJ Anderson and the D with LT. In 90 when he got hurt they missed him so much they up and won another S.B. knocking of two time defending champion S.F. at candlestick were Leonard Marshall blasted Montana into another time zone and Joe wouldn`t play for 2 seasons after the hit.

Oscar, the product on the field is put there by people. The roster is not the building block. The GM, owner, coach & talent evaluators are the building blocks.

The roster is just their output. The one falling block you can't identify is Ireland / Sparano / Parcells / Henning & their outdated jurassic vision for this team.

That's where the problem has been & continues to be. Once that changes, things should improve.

LOL Texas. That's exactly what we are, a circus act.

Why Mando even reports on the signings and we we're passing on is beyond me. What do we need another receiver for, to add another blocker on the line? Why don't we just have the QB, RB, and 9 blockers in front of them. That should be our formation, no receivers, just 9 blockers in front of the QB.

#1, I too think the problem with Odrick is that he's a natural 4-3 DT. He isn't a 3-4 DE.

How many position change projects have we had that actually amounted to anything?

Roth did OK & then we let him go. Wake worked out.

Alama Francis to OLB? Not so much. Misi from 4-3 DE in College to OLB? Not so much. Wilford to TE? Not so much. Jury still out on Odrick but I wouldn't hold my breath.

It took Simms 8 years to win a SuperBowl as the quarterback of the Giants. He never completed more than 60% of his passes until the last two years of his career and, for his career, he has a stellar 78.5 passer rating.
Now, I realize guys like Keiper and McShay don't know diddly about this stuff either but everything that Simms is saying about Luck can be said about Simms over his entire career.
He is just like all the other SuperBowl winning qb's, Dilfer, Williams, etc., who got lucky enough to be on a team that had the talent to overcome his shortcomings.

I heard in next year's Madden, you WON'T be able to send Fasano out for a pass. You can't do it. All he can do is block.

Also, even if you're CB is right on top of the WR, the receiver will still catch the pass.

It's will be scary how realistic it is!

I`m with DC and Spiderman on the debate about what Moore or Henne or even a Beck can be. If it looks like a dog and barks like a dog it`s usually a dog! The above mentioned all seem pretty decent personally but are dogs on the field. Career back ups, nothing more nothing less and for the record of the 3 Henne is my back up hands down the better player in that group throwing Pigpen into that mix as well.

Joe Schmoe, couldn't agree more at your 10:35AM post. It seems this coaching staff NEVER GETS IT RIGHT. I don't know how many times I posted that. Another reason to fire these idiots.

Spiderman, we don't draft for talent. Stop searching for it. We draft for size.

Joe Schmoe | November 03, 2011 at 10:27 AM

Excellent point regarding this regime lead by the Parcells puppets I wonder if they have masks of the Tuna and wear them because God knows their isn`t an original thought in this group!!

#1 Montreal, Odrick may be strong but he doesnt seem quick. DE in this league has to strong quick and agile thats why there coveted. W

When I watch him its like when hes engage with the blockers he cant get off the block. Everyone strong in this league. Just what did he do great at Penn State?

Quoting some jerkwad earlier "I said it before and I'll say it again:Luck, Bradford, Stafford, Sanchez, Ryan, Flacco, Rivers, Cutler, Orton, Marino etc: These stiffs are a dime a dozen and THEY NEVER WIN SUPER BOWLS."

Marino will never win a Super Bowl? Uh he's ...like ... you know... retired, man.

Anybody that starts a blog with "I've said it before and I'll.." is a blowhard.

Next?

DC,

Regarding the Madden 2012 will the Fins LB`s be able to tackle???

DC, on Madden 2012 will Sean Smith intercept the ball if it hits him in his hands?

Spiderman, at Penn St, he was a man among boys. Overpowered everyone. But that's in college. In the NFL, everyone is strong. That's why I was saying he's more suited to play in a 4-3. I don't think he's suited to play DE for the same reasons you posted. I see him more in the middle in a 4-3. Speed is NOT his thing, he's just a big strong guy. We'll see I guess.

Good morning guys,

I understand the critique by Simms. I really do. I watched the game vs USC and didn't see too many throws that were any different that Barkley was making. They looked dead even. Nonetheless, I clearly see Luck as the better pro prospect. I give Simms credit for not just jumping on the Luck-wagon and thinking he is all world the second he puts on a NFL uniform.

Who knows he may actually struggle with all this hype. But I still think he is head and shoulders the best QB in college. And on any given day I can see Barkley or Jones as the #2.

Today is Thursday so I'm going with Barkley as my #2.

I think that, partly by necessity at that Time, the one that started this whole Air craziness throughout the League, was Don Shula, with the unique Dan Marino as his QB. But, specially in Team sports, strategies and approaches to them are slowly cancelled out, as to, in the end, achieve balance. Besides, if you look at the succesful Teams of the Moment, all of them have decent running games.

In Madden 2012 if a Dolphins opponent scores over 17 points does the game automagically end?

Oscar, green bay is 25th in rush offense. New England, 19th

As Darryll realized yesterday, it is very probable that Teams are in a stage of transition, searching for more balance between running and passing the ball.

Spiderman, this clueless coaching staff is always trying to play guys at new positions. Blows me away. I have no idea why. They did that with Wilford, Alama-Francis, Misi and also with Rashad Jones. Everyone knows Jones is NOT a free safety. He's a strong safety. But wouldn't you know stubborn like they are, they always try to prove everyone wrong and do it anyway. It's madness.It also could be called being clueless. Your choice.

#1 Montreal, I just dont understand how us fans can make analysis on players like Odrick but Sparano or Ireland cant see this.

Those were all good Madden 2012 additions guys, thank you. Answers: No, No and Yes. It'll be like Blackjack, dealer shuts down once the other team scores 18 points.

I don't know what I'd rather do, listen to a speech from Mark in Toronto about emerging markets in Asia or watch the Dolphins this or any weekend this year. I'm gonna go with Mark. At least I'll know his speech will come to an end at some point. As far as the Dolphins not sucking, well, that's as-of-yet-undetermined.

Spiderman, what do you expect them to say? Their 1st round pick is a bust?

For god sakes, they rode Henne as the guy in part, it seems, to avoid admitting he was a mistake.

You're looking for the impossible. My suggestion: Stop looking.

Spiderman, I don't know. Why didn't they try to sign a speedy tight end with good hands in the offseason? Everybody knew we needed one, yet nothing was done. Why did we sign Colombo? Everybody knew he sucked, he almost got Romo killed last year. Everybody knew that, yet we sign him and our coach says not to worry, he watched tape. Why didn't we sign a guard? Everybody knew Incognito is average, could bring in someone to compete, and Jerry sucked, yet we sign a tackle and switch our tackle to guard. Why do we cut a decent ILB when we have so many other issues? We knew our secondary needed playmakers yet they didn't do jack about it. Why?? I don't know, you tell me...

Spiderman, because you don't know the scale Sparano uses to grade players. I saw it. If Odrick doesn't trip on a rock on the field, that's a point for a heads-up play. If Wake gets a sack or pressure, that's a point for Odrick protecting the backside. If Odrick is out of a play, that's a point for no mental errors.

On Sparano's scale, Odrick should be leading the league in ProBowl ballots. Oh, Sparano uses the same scale Harvard does in grading. Therefore, George W. Bush can get a "C" when he really failed. Same as Sean Smith.

I think you'll find the Holy grail before you find the answers to your questions #1.

Then, if that's the case, Joe, don't criticize ANY player on the field, and only the owner and FO. Right?

When they get fired they can say "We stuck to our board." or "We watched film on the guy." NO RISK, NO REWARD is their motto.

Isn't Phil Simms one of Parcells old buddies?

Just sayin'

I use to go out to boards and talk smack before Sunday's game but now I eat cheese and whine on the blogs.

The players just suck, the GM sucks at evaulating talent, and Sparano sucks at coaching the players about the X's and the O's of the game, he's just a rah rah type of coach. Oline coach my ass! The oline is maybe the second worst position behind QB of coarse!

Ladies and Gentlemens thats why were the worst team in hte league. We stink at everything as an NFL team.

It is a Team's Sport.

Simms was an avergae QB on a great team. He shouldn't throw stones. And he is an awful NFL commentator.

DC, I don't have anything on emerging markets in Asia but if you want my take on how stubborn and ungrateful the Greeks are being right now, I can fire away.

And if you want to hear lunacy, I'm putting 100this on the dolphins to come within the 5 points Vegas is currently giving them. Kc is not a good team.

Russell Wilson of Wisconsin would look awesome in aqua & orange. He's got the arm AND he can run!

I thought the same thing about Luck. He won't even be able to hold cam's jock strap in the NFL.

I use to like Phil Simms alot. Lately he has made some comments that I just don't understand. I think Simms is very biased towards anything in New York. To this day he defends Mark Sanchez and insisnts that he is a franchise QB. Taking that in consideration I would not put to much weight on what Sims say's about Luck. I guarantee you this, if Luck for some reason ends up on a New York team, Sims will nominate him for the Hall of Fame right away and forget everything he ever said about Luck in the past.

Nobody should go against LV in this kind of Team Sport, but, to each his own.

Bob Greasy,

Russell Wilson would be Willie Beamen lol.

I like him he is a nice exciting player but he is more Troy Smith then Willie Beamen. He is fast in college from the QB position but not in the NFL. And watch Wisconsin play if you get the chance all he does is hit wide open receivers or throw smoke screens. When he was forced to make real throws he struggles with accuracy and touch.

But about that aqua and orange. I always thought Miami should go with Orange pants.


in Madden 2012 if a Dolphins opponent scores over 17 points does the game automagically end?

Posted by: Texas_Dolfan | November 03, 2011 at 11:07 AM
--------------------------------------------

That is the POST OF THE DAY.....lol....

Mark, that's a stretch, isn't it? I know KC isn't that good, but Dwayne Bowe will murder our secondary. I'm starting him in my fantasy league, he'll probably get 20 points +. I'm expecting a 2-3 TD game for him.

And if we can't score any more than 17 points then...you better hope Cassel gets bored ripping us apart and stops at 20.

...Holy hangover. Good party last night.

Anyway. Who cares what Phil Simms says. Who cares what Todd McShay says. Who cares what Mike Mayock says. All have varied opinions about Luck. Barring a Roethlisberger rape spree in college town restrooms. Luck is going to be the number one pick. There has only been one quarterback in the history of the NFL that has a grade as high as Luck..Elway.

I get it. I had good grades too(look at me now..all jacked up)This is only window dressing. And Luck has to prove the hype. This will not be the first F.A.G.(Football Anaylist Guy) to have a negative opinion of Luck. It is only human nature to try and find deficiencies in something that to most is extrodinary.

Mark in Toronto..I also took the Phins and the 5 points. I disagree that KC is poor. I think that the Phins have no chance to win this week..None. But I think the game will be a low scorer(I took the under as well )Something like 17-13, 10-9. We just cant score enough points to win right now.

Simms didn't say he wouldn't be a good NFL QB. He just pointed out some observations. Luck does have weaknesses just like anyone. But he SHOULD make a really good NFL QB.

We all know that Ross has to get rid of Ireland and Sparano and bring in a new crew who will be responsible for selecting a new QB in the first round. So, the pressure is really on Ross. He needs to get the right GM and Coach who will make the right call on the QB. If they get that wrong it will set back the franchise another 3-5 years.

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