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What now that Barkely isn't turning pro?

You should know by now that Matt Barkley is staying in school at USC, as I wrote in today's Miami Herald.

In my column, I present a couple of options the Dolphins have now that only two quarterbacks with top 10 grades -- Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III -- will be in the draft in a best-case scenario.

That means the Dolphins may have to trade up to get RG3 or Luck, if they have a conviction about him. Or they may simply have to find a lower-rated quarterback and believe he will become a great professional.

Who?

The Dolphins must hope, indeed pray, that Oklahoma’s Landry Jones enters the draft even though his season’s final month was a disaster and scouts are saying he needs an extra year in school.

The Dolphins must hope that Ryan Tannehill is ready for the NFL even though he was recruited to Texas A&M as a receiver and never played quarterback until the seventh game of the 2010 season. (Very raw prospect, this kid.)

The Dolphins must hope less eminent quarterbacks such as Arizona’s Nick Foles or Michigan State’s Kirk Cousins are diamonds waiting for the next Miami coach to polish them into treasures.

I''m not a Jones fan. I saw him play a handful of games, including several late and he simply wasn't a take-charge guy. He didn't make any throws that impressed me. His arm was exceedingly strong or accurate. He puts up great numbers, I grant you, but Blaine Gabbert put up great numbers in college. And Jones reminds me of Gabbert.

I haven't seen Foles or Cousins. I hope they are legit. I have to study them more. (By studying them more, I mean I have to ask scouts and personnel people about them. I'm not a pesonnel man and don't front like I am. But I do have access to experts, and I'll share with you what they share with me soon enough.)

I know with Barkley out of the picture, the Dolphins will be studying them more, also.

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Craig M...We will see what happens(going out on a limb there)..I wouldn't be shocked if we made a huge play to trade up...Ireland is on the hot seat(even though Ross gave his support after firing Sparano)..

People are going to cringe at this thought. But if you can get a franchise quarterback..Future first round picks are worth sacrificing. If you can ensure a top talent. Screw the future picks..do it. These picks are held onto like a junkie holds their stash...Everyone knows that last shot doesn't really help except to ease the pain for awhile..Now this wierd drug analogy means..How affective have our first round guys been?? Some are good, but our team still stinks..So we can go on drafting mid round lineman forever, or make a splash..We need that shot in the arm to last, not just give us hope that the pain will go away when we have no more dope.

New York Jets fans - for Christmas I hope you catch your wife cheating on you WITH YOUR DOG!

I think that covers all the necessary bases.

JS , How is Henne's agent going to sell Henne as a starter to this team or any other team in the NFL? He has three years of stats that prove he's still a work in progress. And now people are saying that he doesn't have the "it" factor and he may never pan out as anything but a backup.

I just don't see his agent being able to trick a team into paying him starter money. We'll see. I'll tell you this, if he does get starter money from a team and I was a player with a diffrent agent I would immediately fire that agent and hire Henne's!

dd.... WHAT DO YOU RECOMMEND FOR CHRISMAS DINER ?

PLEASE NO PORK,AND NO BEEF AND NO RABBIT .........
THANK YOU ........

cristmas

dinner

Also BTW,
K. Moore fans....
Your positive thoughts unfortunately do not make Mr. Moore grow taller. He isn't as tall as Brees. He's 5'11". the Prospect sites get the trumped up height #s from school reps, or Moores people. Saying a QB is under 6 foot is death, so hence they fudge an inch.
Good news is, he's no shorter than M. Vick.
Bad news, is he doesn't run like Michael, but he is at least mobile. He'll need to be.
I like the guy too. He'll start for someone, and defy some odds. Just not sure he's franchise material. but after RG3, who the heck is? Crap shoot.

christmas

It's funny reading these beat writers and fans. During the off season EVERYBODY was chanting for Kyle Orton or Donovan McNab or Vince Young. Remember? When the Dolphins and yes Ireland, signed Matt Moore he was ridiculed and laughed at. Well folks, Matt Moore has had the best season and looks like he was the best option. But writers (Armando) are in the business of selling newspapers so it's convenient to forget things like that or slant the truth to well, sell newspapers.

...Henne gets gas station attendant money..That's it. minimum wage to fill my gas tank, and wash my windsheild. Henne belongs on the sideline holding a clipboard with his hat on backwards slapping the starter in the rear when he trots off the field after a fade pass for a touchdown..I wish Henne all the luck in the world..He gave his best effort here, and I appreciate him for that. But if he wants to find glory...The CFL needs good men.

Anthony you are one fan out of thousands. At first glance Orton was an upgrade over Henne and most fans wanted an upgrade. No one really thought he would be a franchise QB but some believed it would re-unite the Marshall/Orton connection and get us to the playoffs. Good thing Ross knew better.

dd is becominfg VERY HARD HITTING GUY .........

TO ATTACK HENNE IS REALY DUMB ,WITH A TEAM WHO HAS NO DEFENSE TO SPEAK OF IN THE FIRST 7 GAMES .............

Phins78,
Orton, Moore and a few others managed to wind up as starters when they were kicked to the curb. Anyway, believe as you like, but I'll stick with my predicition that he leaves.
As for me, I see pretty much every FA on the list as as good if not better than Henne. He sees a minimal amount of the field, and reads defenses only once in a while. Don't waste the cash.
If he's willing to step down in wage, then keep him as back-up and trade Moore for something good. If we don't have a hot new QB starting by mid-season next year, I'm becoming a Broncos fan.
40 years down the drain.

JS...I had this coverstion with Dying Breed about Moore about a month ago. It doesn't matter what his opinion was he is free to say what he wants..I saw with my own eyes Moore in a game situation. It was the TCU game and I found myself in Boise with a friend that had box seats..(sweet..but the stadium sucks there..either here nor there) Anyway..I told him for like a week. You cannot appreciate how small Moore is until you see him with your own eyes..It is unreal. I like Moore too. I see him every week I'm not in Missoula. But his greatness in college may not translate to the NFL..I would be suprised if he is selected before the fifth round.

TOP 3 draft order

1. St. Louis 2-14 (will lose @ Pitt, lose SF)

2. Indianapolis 3-13 ( I say a win vs lifeless Jax)

3. Minnesota 3-13 (split between Washington and Chicago take your pick)

Miami, Washington and Cleveland all will have their shot at trading up to number 1. They will have to come with the best package of players and picks.

I for one would give UP anyone we have to get a franchise QB. I'm sure Washington and Cleveland fans feel the same.

Miami may have the best position of need players to offer St. Louis in Jake Long, Vontae Davis or Jared Odrick. All of them are young and good players. Any mix of those players and draft picks might be the best we have to to offer.

Cleveland on the other hand has Joe Thomas, Joe Haden and that's really it but they have 2 first round draft picks. Which probably put them in the running.

Washington on the very outside looking in. They have no young players St. Louis would want and I don't know for sure but they are probably draft pick depleted from God knows when for a player they don't have or stinks.

Miami has a chance if Cleveland isn't willing to part with their top players and just the draft picks but their next best option is RG3 and a package of Jake Long and some draft picks might get the #2.

Just random hypothetical thoughts

Matt Moore is the best thing to ever happen to Carolina and the WORST thing to happen to us Dolphin fans.

He put us in NFL purgatory. Not good enough to make the playoffs even if he did start the entire year and not bad enough to get us a top 3 pick which is going to be needed to get the only QBs worth taking in round 1.

ALoco..What's up..Merry Christmas.

If you noticed..I did give Henne a shout for his effort as a Phin..I realize he had to overcome some tough situations as far as the overall performance of the team went...But, he is most likely played his last game in Miami. So he is someone elses problem. As much effort as Henne gave..He simply wasn't good enough.

DD,
agree.
The things I see that I like though would translate.
He's smart, accurate, thinks on the fly, leader, mobile. Matt Ryan with moves.
What he'll have a hard time doing is getting an In route, or slant, ...anything where a throwing lane is needed past monster linemen, and he'll need some more Ummpph on his passes.
Brees doesn't have a gigantic arm either, so who knows.
Danny Wuerffel, or Brees? Could be either. Maybe we'll get some clarity soon.
But, thanks indeed for the insight from someone who has seen him up close. :)

This one is easy Mando__ Ireland will surely bring back Henne,Moore, and sign Dallas back up QB or whoever Dallas waived .. Ireland will not Draft a QB in first round, after doing his extensive work on R.Mallett he let the Patsies drafted the dude, so now the Patsies can just trade Brady and not resign him to a one million type contract like Manning.

Stop the trade Long talk, please.
No GM who wishes to keep his job ever trades a pro-bowl/franchise LT in his prime for anything. Won't happen.
Anybody else? maybe. We'll see. Someone good will have to go, to be sure. If I'm another team looking at our roster, ... man-up CBs are hard to come by. Bush or Thomas might be tempting too.
It won't be optimal for us, but we'll have to sacrifice something.

..JS. Spot on about Moore. I think that one thing I see that he gets away with in College that he may not in the Pros..And this is nitpicking. He is late with his delivery sometimes. I don't know if it is because the route, or because he has to find a throwing lane.I'm not sure. If he is in an all-star game
watch for this.

Also..and this speaks to his height.. He looks like Lord Helmet from spaceballs..he has a HUGE head, on a liitle(for football body)..

The Dolphins should trade DOWN if anything NOT up.

1 round selection should be a WR, LB or S.

JS in LA,

Trading Long and some draft picks for a franchise QB is a no brainer if you are Miami.

What is Miami supposed to do have Long sit around blocking for Matt Moore or the next cast off?

You are talking reckless if you think that is bad move. Stop, relax and think about it before blurting out something asinine like your post from 12:58

Jesus no more Kellen Moore or Weeden BS. Weeden is too old and Moore just isn't that talented. We need to land Luck or RGIII any way that we can. I'm still not off the Jones bandwagon, but with all of the bad press he's getting he'll probably stay in school another year. We don't need any more "diamonds in the rough" in the second round like Beck and Henne. Those never work out for us. The phins don't even know how to tank a season properly. What a joke (and not in a funny way)this year has been.

DD,
thanks.
Flutie managed for a few years, so it's not unheard of. Just not ready to jump either way on K.Moore yet.
But after RG3 gets picked, ... Weeden? Jones (maybe Henne 2.0)? Skip all the mid-ranked losers, and we get to Keenum and Moore. Biggest interests from me to see how each fairs versus senior bowl; combine; pro-day etc. So many questions, but at least there's an interesting water-cooler talk value.
Ugh!

Well all you "Go Fins! Win no matter what!" folks got your wish. Now here's the fallout.

might as well concentrate on building around moore at this point......


Bring Miami Fav Reggie Wayne back would be a nice start.....just sayin!!!

I have a QB pick that's a sleeper but he's coming on strong:

Russell Wilson, QB, Wisconsin

He was at NC State and transferred to Wisconsin after snubbing Auburn.

This guy was given Heisman consideration and reminds me of Drew Brees. Here's some sick vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8r7wLnb1xc

Jebediah,

I was on the Landry bandwagon for a while but I am completely off it. He has a ton of talent around him at Oklahoma and lost Broyles and his game went in the crapper! He didn't throw a single TD in his final 3 games.

He reminds me a lot of Henne. He's a big guy 6'4 230, strong arm and when his feet are set he can be pin point but give him the slightest bit of confusion and he's all over the place with the ball. I saw about 5 Sooner games this year and never once did I come away overly impressed.

Now I only saw RG3 play 3 times and every time I was impressed. He was the best player on the field vs TCU, Oklahoma and Texas and his play alone won them games.

Barkley no point in talking about him but I will anyway he went pass for pass with Luck and he was lights out vs Oregon and Notre Dame.

Luck fuhghetaboutit! He is the complete package. He clearly lacks elite talent around him but the one thing that stands out from the untrained or fake Mel Kiper is he puts the ball in spots. He is pin point accurate. He throws high where only a TE can get or low and inside where only the back and grab it.

I think it's a pipe dream or maybe a wet one to get Luck but don't see Miami giving up enough because in this WACKED out GM's mind he thinks Miami isn't that far off and you can tell that by way he drafts when he picks depth guys like Odrick and motor guys like Misi or picks a freaking Center at 15 because he thinks they are the missing piece.

Brandon Weeden for OSU is a good option, just a little older than most teams want but is ready for the nfl right now and is exceptional so watch for him if we don't get RGIII

I would start playing the patriot game with picks. The phins need to trade the number one away for picks. This new rules regarding rookies will create a frenzy of desire to move up and the Dolphins need to capitalize on the teams willing to overpay for moving. Start playing the draft the way the patsy does. Sure as hell beats the days of wanny and saban blowing picks to save their bacon.

Sorry, Andy, but it's not assinine. Believe as you like.
Next to QB, the LT is the most important and highly coveted player on the field. When you have it covered with a franchise/pro-bowl guy, you cling tenatiously. That's why Matt Kalil will be taken #2 by someone. If Luck wasn't there, he'd be #1. Long was #1 a few years ago.
It'd be like trading Aaron Rodgers for Belichik.
Anyway, we're all just blah blahing, and someone may end up being right. We'll see.
If I'm Ireland, everyone on my roster but Long and Pouncey are bait. Many will be a tough loss, but there will eventually be reward.

NHFINSFAN,

I believe we had this conversation before about Russell Wilson.

He is very talented when he was put behind one of the best if not thee best offensive line in all football and handing the ball to Montae Ball and throwing lolly pops to AL Toon or to wide open guys when playing inferior competition but when he had to play Michigan State and Nebraska he wasn't even close to being the same player.

I think he is another athlete who happens to play QB instead of vice versa. He is a project at best not to mention 5'10.

Here is an article breaking down Luck/Griffin & Wilson:

I'm telling ya guys, Russell Wilson is the real deal from Wisconsin and should be in the discussion:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/890150-heisman-breakdown-andrew-luck-vs-robert-griffin-iii-vs-russell-wilson

So Mr. Odin.....with all due respect sir....i must decline in giving you my support as president of Football Operations.....
Respectfully,
Kris
Posted by: kris | December 23, 2011 at 08:34 AM
-----------------------------------------------

While I am sorry you feel this way, PLEASE, just allow me to say:

LIBERAL!!!!

PS: Can't a guy get a break? JFK had the Bay of Pigs Debacle. Teddy had Chappaquidick. So I have HenneGate!

C'Mon Man-I Am NOT a CRIMINAL!

Andy, So the kid transfers from NC State to WI and he has two bad games against superior defenses and you write him off as "not NFL ready"?
Oh yea, he's an inch shorter than Brees and when he was at Purdue got no respect either....

JS in La,

The asinine comment was a little much, sorry uncalled for.

Anyway back to my arguement, I disagree. A QB for a LT isn't even in the same ball park. You can have a franchise LT all you want but they DON'T make the plays. They are very important to the success of the team but nit as much as a QB.

Having a FRANCHISE QB isn't the equivalent to anything in any sport let alone a blocking offensive linemen.

Does Drew Brees have an elite Left Tackle? Does Aaron Rodgers? Did Peyton Manning? No, No, No.

You can put a Franchise QB on a team and win a Super Bowl with a good to average offensive line depending on other team strenghts but a Left Tackle alone gets you no where. Miami could have easily won only 2 or 3 games if not for Matt Moore playing some pretty good football.

Mando, quit harping L.Jones because you obviously haven't watched his game and are simply parroting what you've heard, I'll repost my reasons against the move.


1) Alot of his passes seem to be of the screen and hitch variety were his skill guys are getting lots of YAC. You don't see a great deal of downfield stuff in that O.

2) Has an eternity to throw behind a HOG OL and while not his fault to have the luxury, I for one want to see him under pressure more. In the one game I saw the pressure applied he was toast and threw very erratically.

3) Call it Dolphins syndrome but I hate Oklahoma's redzone package because they pull L.Jones off the field and go to this behemoth Fr. Q.B. they nicknamed the BELLDOZER to run a pseudo Wildcat taking away Jones ability to show you what he can do regarding those passes or running a goal line O.

Then there is the HYPE MACHINE around this kid which frankly reminds me a great deal of the one that surrounded Joey Harrington. I could be wrong but it looks like a dog and barks like one to me.

Also worth noting this kid replaced S.Bradford who with a lesser supporting cast threw for 36 TD's as a Fr. and won the Heisman as a Soph. behind the massive OL's that Bob Stoops seems to be very adept at recruiting year after year.

This kid is a system Q.B. who could pan out like some that came out of left field but if your basing your draft grade on his play at Okla. this kids contribution and game leave alot to desire on arguably a more talented team than the one Saban is taking to the BCS Champ. game, IMHO!

I am not the know all voice of reason but I truly believe this kid will be a Joey Harrington type bust that will destroy careers!!

It's either Luck who could be in play with St Louis or Minn ahead of the Colts now or RG111 in a trade the house in the 2012 draft scenario or we will end up trading down again to the screams of many on this blog.

NHFINSFAN,

Russell Wilson stinks as a NFL prospect plain and simple.

There is no other way to put it. He doesn't make NFL throws. He throws balls up to wide open guys and throws vertical which a lot of QBs can make them throws in college. He can't make sideline to sideline throws.

And don't compare every QB under 6 foot to Drew Brees because Drew Brees was GREAT in college. He broke every important Big 10 passing record and took an inferior talented team to the Rose Bowl. Brees struggled for a few years in the NFL but he didn't all the sudden become great he already was great he just slipped because of his height. Russell Wilson isn't the same class of

Well, Andy, even though I agree with several of your posts, we're going to have to completely disagree here on the LT for QB thing.
If I'm a coach, and my GM trades a franchise LT for a rookie QB, I'm going straight to my owner/president/whoever and ask for his dismissal. BAD idea. And the history of draft picks and cash spent, and movies made about it back me up here. Send some emails to Armando, or random "experts" and see what they think. I'd be curious to know.
Then let me know the consensus. If they agree with you, I'll own it, and formally apologize. Otherwise, I say HAYEELLLL NO.
Btw, thanks for being constructive and not spreading more vitriol around like others enjoy doing in these forums. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

You want your diamond in the rough? Kellen Moore of Boise State. All he needs is to work on footwork and taking snaps more under center, but you have the smartest QB in the draft. Let him fall to 6th round and you'll have a QB that will compete on the grandest stages with the same make up as a Drew Brees/Doug Flutie type. Undersized but has all the make up of a winner. Here's to hoping that my favorite NFL team is the one that gives my favorite collegiate player a chance to compete (even if its not the 1st qb taken by the phins)

fin4life,

GREAT post at 1:30. I agree across the board on Jones. I see the same stuff. The thing is when you do get even the smallest amout of pressure on him he comes apart!

By the way Merry Christmas to all ( ODIN, DC Dolphan, Kris, Darryl D, CRAIG M, Aloco, Andy, NY "G", NH FIN) and any and all others I may have missed, given I at times spend more time debating all things Football with you guys than those I see in person.

ODIN, Special shout out to your Son, I hope he's safe were ever he is defending his Country.

TRADE UP FOR LUCK MIAMI!!!!!!!!!!!!

I watch a lot of Oklahoma ball and L.Jones is not ready for the NFL. fin4life is spot on in his assessment.
L. Jones reminds me too much of Henne. When Ryan Broyles went down Jones's accuracy issues were more evident.

I propose the following: Draft the great USC tackle Kalil and with Long , Incognasty, Pouncy (insert right guard here - it stinks [J. Jerry?]) and Kalil you would instantly have the best oline in the league for the next 10 years. Don't try to get a perfect qb and compete with Brady /Manning/Rivers etc... Its a passing league, but if you become a great running offense (I mean that would be a road grader offense w/ those guys Bush, Thomas and a Sproles type scat back that you draft) the rest of the league would be ill equipped to deal with it. Happens every 10 years or so... one team breaks away from the pack and the pendulum swings... every other team is inevitably behind the curve. Most teams are built on a pass blocking line a top tier qb - a #1 erceiver and tons of dbacks... those teams would not be able to stop Miami. I used to think - ok we need a Luck to win, but why play the same way the other teams are. Force THEM to adjust. Remember when the league was coming out of the pass happy late 80's (Kelly Marino Elway Young Fouts etc)and Dallas went heavy duty up front- they had a dynasty.

Do WHATEVER it takes to get RG3-

If that fails, take the BPA at #8, then go for Weeden in Rd2. Weeden would be a viable 1st rounder if not 28 yrs old. If he's a star for 8 years, that's not so bad.

Remember the good old days when we were sucking for Luck?

I'm in agreement with those who wish to trade up for either Luck or RG3. Sacrifice most anything except Long and Pouncey (Yes, I know Andy - we disagree here). That fails? , then yeah I'm probably willing to try Weeden in round 2. He'll be short lived, but at least it'll be decent years.
Arggh! We went from Luck, to Barkley, to RG3, to... 5'10" QBs who may not suck. Just swell.

Swear I think I'm becoming a Broncos fan.

Let me remind you that nick foals was a backup to Kirk cousins at Michigan State. Kirk cousins beat him out so he had to transfer schools to play quarterback

BTW, if the Rams wind up #1, AND if they flip otu and take Luck ... Anyone want to trade for Bradford?
I honestly haven't watched hi play NFL, but I wasn't a fan when he was hyped up at Oklahoma. Looked slow,and well protected there. But accurate given time. Simply don't know.
The scenario isn't nuts, the ESPN radio folks have brought it up already. Thoughts?

Kirk Cousins - is a Matt Moore type. He doesn't have the proto type build, he doesn't have a great arm, isn't overly accurate, is athletic enought but nothing out of the ordinary but makes the most of his talents.

Nick Foles - is a Chad Henne type. He is big, slow, has a strong arm but get pressure in his face and he tucks the ball for some odd reasoning and he doesn't have that "it" factor.

If I had to pick between the 2 I would go Kirk Cousins but that would be with a gun to my face and a knife to my balls. I don't want either one of those average prospects!

I want Luck or RG3 and I would give up any player or draft picks to get either one.

Darryl, dint insult the CFL. He couldn't cut it here. You need to be athletic smart and mobile. Henne couldn't cut it. Kellen Moore on the other hand ....

I told you guys so. It was tragically stupid to win these games. We are going to suck for years.

DD, "I bet you she gives great helmet"

Do whatever you have to and get rg3. Hopefully they hire a coach who will convince them to give up picks next year or whatever. If they dont it will be another wasted year. Foles sucks and tannehill will not be a franchise qb either.

I told you guys so. It was tragically stupid to win these games. We are going to suck for years.
Posted by: amsmith965 | December 23, 2011 at 02:00 PM

Yep I agree. Henne getting hurt was the worst thing that could have happened. That chump would have probably only won two games. Winning these 5 meaningless games may have doomed us to mediocrity for another 10 years.

JS in LA,

It's been talked about that "experts" don't see how the Rams could possibly take Luck. They would have to hold the ALL-TIME auction for the rights to Andrew Luck. Bradford's contract is still owed something like 32 million in guarantees plus his base salary each year which is adds up to about 50 million still owed.

Guys I have this crazy hypothetical situation where Ireland knows he better produce a winning bunch because he has to know he survived by the skin of his teeth.

But Ireland is a Baylor grad and played for them too (placekicker, no seriously he was). Maybe he does make the move and mortgages the future for the schools most celebrated athlete in its history in RG3.

Sounds story book but there is a slight connection there, right?

Mark / JS,

Missed you guys in sending out a Seasons Greetings, hey Mark is the Jesus Celebration common practice in Canada, LOL, just kidding!

Andy,
prob right on both counts.
I was just looking at some Cousins film, and gotta say i like what I saw. Quick release, competitor, high energy, seemed accurate enough, good decisions. But what is it about him that doesn't make MSU coaches want to make him lord of the offense? They use his arm like a back-up option. Why? Don't understand.
Rams would be wise to sell their pick for goodies, but it all depends on what the FO and coaches think. They see Bradford everyday - are they sold on him being a pro-bowler?
I still think Colts lose out, so academic about Luck.
Also i think Peyton will retire rather than be traded. Retire, lose a year, then pull a Favre comeback for one year (elsewhere), then retire again.

Js, you wouldn't trade a left tackle for a top qb talent? That's pretty moronic. Joe Thomas and Jake long are probably the two best in the game and their teams may be picking in the top 5. I'd trade both long and pouncey for luck straight up. I just might not play luck in year one without the line though. But those positions are so much easier to find. There are 4 to 5the tackles that go in the first round every year yet there aren't even enough qbs on the planet to provide a starter to 32 teams. Do the math

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