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The absence of a good QB option hurts on field, off

Jimmy Johnson wanted to get back into coaching in 1996 and he wanted to do it in Florida so he looked around the landscape of possible jobs and weighed the Tampa Bay Bucs and Miami Dolphins. In Tampa, he had more cap room, a budding great defense with youngsters Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks and John Lynch, and the promise of a new stadium.

In Miami, Johnson saw Dan Marino.

Johnson picked the Dolphins. And he did it primarily because he believed Marino could get him to the Super Bowl quicker than anyone on the Tampa roster playing quarterback at the time could. Johnson figured he could build a team around the quarterback easier than find the quarterback to build the team around.

Yes, he was wrong because Marino would soon begin his decline.

But a team's quarterback situation was important for more than one reason all the way back then -- even before the NFL became a lubricated lightning strike league where teams can score four touchdowns in four minutes of playoff action as New Orleans and San Francisco did last weekend.

Fast forward to 2011. The Dolphins lost out on hiring Jeff FIsher a few days ago. And on Monday there was this in Peter King's Monday Morning Quarterback column in Sports Illustrated quoting Fisher:

"From day one, when I began this process after the season, I felt Miami and St. Louis were my best options. I did my research. I looked at every team that had an opening. I looked at the personnel on each team, I looked at the owners, I looked at the cap situations, and I narrowed it to two. Not Marvin. Me. Marvin didn't push me. I am convinced he was completely objective.''

Fisher went on to say at the start of the process he was interested in a team that had a good owner and good quarterback, and he felt St. Louis had the best combination of both.

I'm not going to replay the Fisher fiasco. That's done.

But the lesson from that missed opportunity is that aside from hurting the team on the field, aside from keeping the team perpetually playing a secondary role to NFL teams that do have quarterbacks, the Dolphins decade-long inability to land even a good quarterback has come to roost off the field as well.

We've seen glimpses of how the QB situation has driven the direction of the franchise before.

Nick Saban quit after 2006 when he realized he made a terrible mistake in his chase of a quarterback and that mistake was probably irreparable, thus killing his chances to win soon, thus making life in the NFL miserable.

The 2004 Dolphins were terrible because Ricky Williams quit days before the season, that is true. But if they had a great quarterback instead of the terrible Jay Fielder-A.J. Feeley competition that was never settled, they might have overcome the disaster of that season.

The one season the Dolphins did kinda sorta solve their QB woes -- 2008 -- also gave the team its most successful season in years. Chad Pennington was great and the club won the AFC East.

Knowing this history, knowing how the quarterback situation has repurcussions on and off the field, how can anyone rightly say that the status quo is good enough?

It is not.

 



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In my last post, I stated:

"Moore played very well at times and his QB rating put him in the top 12 of all NFL QB's. He deserves a chance to start, but areas of his game are of significant concern. Otherwise, he could be traded for a 1st round pick."

I could have worded this better. I meant to say that if there were no concerns about Moore's game, then he could be traded for a 1st round pick.

I doubt that a team would offer a first round pick for Moore, but I may be mistaken. I'm not putting down Moore's play, but saying that no one is totally convinced he is at Brady's level (one wishes) at this point.

Texas_Dolfan - In RE to compensation from the Skins to move up to #2....obviously nothing is set in stone and nobody really knows for sure....but right now, football people are talking the swap of 1st rounders this year (obviously), this years 2nd, next years 1st and next years 3rd or possibly a conditional 2nd.

AndyNJ has a good post at 1:13 for what possible compensation from Miami could look like to beat out the Skins and Browns.

Moore? Trade for a first round pick? Not in your lifetime. You couldn't trade Moore for a third round pick. You guys need to turn Madden off.

Armando, You are jumping on the band wagon of so called experts that keep on saying the same thing; Miami does not have a quarterback. The last time I looked Matt Moore was the number 12 rated passer in the NFL. He was drafted in the 7th round as Tom Brady was. Matt did not have great support this season and has not though out much of his NFL career. Yet he had a great year and with more support he can be that QB.

You can't make an omellete(get to the playoffs) without breaking a few eggs(draft picks to tradeup for RGIII)

Put up or shut up time for the Phins as an orginization. Either they'll be bold & try to make the leap or they'll be bland & continue down the path of .500% or worse.

I think we all know what's going to happen.

Ferg,

I wouldn't be against the Dolphins trading back either the more I think of it. With no elite play makers on O or D available at Miami's spot (Luck, RG3, Blackmon, Clairborne) a trade back may not be the worst thing for a team needing one of the linemen Martin or Reiff.

I'm not a big fan of Tannehill though.

LOL Moore for a first rounder. HAHAHA. Moore would go unclaimed on Waivers. #JUSTSAYIN. Get off Madden for sure.

Ironically, they wouldn't be looking for a coach if they had a stud QB.

New Coach Wanted:

You are right about Moore.

I put a second post explaining that I meant to say that IF there were no concerns about Moore, then he could be traded for a 1st. But, there are, of course, concerns.

I could have worded my first post better.

Anyway, as I said, you're probably right about Moore's actual trade value.

promichael,

Henne was ranked 9th before he got injured. You claim he sucks. Moore was 12th and couldn't get us in the end zone either. He is a journeyman, another Trent Dilfer. Pinning your hopes on him is like trying to pin a tail on a real donkey out in a field.

WHAT IS ALL THIS GARBAGE ABOUT LOSING jEFF FISHER? HE HAS A 555% WINNING IN THE LAST 17 YEARS AND WAS FIRED TWICE FOR LACK OF PRODUCING A CONSISTENT WINNER. $7-8 MILLION A YEAR FOR MR. LOSER. THIS IS JUST CRAZY. HE DID US A FAVOR.

That being said,

Give the Dolphins a couple more weapons at receiver and TE, fix the line, get a RB who can actually be a workhorse, and Henne (better) or Moore could be a good enough player to get us in the playoffs until we nab a premier QB.

Sigh,
Even without "concerns" moore is a waiver guy. Possible 5th or 6th round if a team was dying at the QB position due to injuries. Until he wins a playoff game and puts up a 3000 yard season.. then he MIGHT be a 2nd rounder... MIGHT... learn trade values. :P

Come on. Henne was only 9th because of the 1st game against the ridicuously bad NE defense padded his numbers. Yet another example of how stats lie. He stunk the following 2 games.

Moore throws a 10 x better deep ball & has more touch on red zone throws. Anyone watching the games could see that.

Having said that, neither are the long term answer.

SANBAR
no one is talking about fisher anymore bro. Done, gone, no one cares, over it.

I know it's not popular to say this, but I wish the Dolphins had not won those games at the end of the year at this point.

I wish they had put Jake Long on IR and then the losses would have happened "organically." That is, the weak OL would have led to losses naturally no matter how hard the team played. Especially with Columbo at LT -- Lol.

Speak of Jake Long, he really should have been on IR due to the injures he struggled with all year. Due his playing late into the year, he injured his back and then his biceps. This makes me think that another Tackle will be picked at #8 or #9.

Some say we should wait and get a QB next year. Will it really be that much easier to get a QB in 2013?

Was it that Marino's play declined in 96 or was it that Jimmy Johnson guted the offensive line and receivers corps?

I'm going to be sad to see Henne go ONLY because I thought he was going to be special. What bothers me though, is the guy had to learn how many different Offenses through his first 3-4 years? 3? 4? Woulda been nice to see how he did with full control of Dabol's offense for 2 straight years... Problem is Henne will never get 2 straight years again unless he's a backup. Dolphins ruin another possible bright spot with front office issues. PERIOD.

My bad on my wording for implying Moore was a 1st rounder. I know he's not. Who do you guys think I am, Jeff Ireland?!? Lol.

But thanks for calling me on it. Lol.

I traded my entire draft to get 1 player, I am trying to recall exactly how that panned out for me....

Dolphins need Jon Gruden. He's a QB's coach. Shame he'd rather be a broadcaster.

Marino on the decline was better than any other QB in his prime!!!!!!!!!!

SEARCH THIS,

I agree Henne being 9th was an early season stat that obviously meant nothing because he couldn' win games anyway. Henne stinks! I'm so glad that era is over. He will sign on as a backup in Chicago or one of these teams that learned the hard way about the value of a good back up.

I believe Henne is capable of being that a good backup. He isn't good enough to be a full time starter but can win a few games if called upon if a starter goes down. But he's not getting you to the playoffs as a starter or going out attacking defenses to win you games. He is care taker at best but better suited to be a quality back up.

Give the Dolphins a couple more weapons at receiver and TE, fix the line, get a RB who can actually be a workhorse, and Henne (better) or Moore could be a good enough player to get us in the playoffs until we nab a premier QB.
Posted by: New Coach Wanted | January 17, 2012 at 01:52 PM

How about a gold toilet or A diamond studded Rolex! Still having all these needs after 4 years is pathetic. Yet, some people continue to defend Ireland. Gotta love it!

What? 10x better deep ball? Are you kidding me? More touch on red zone throws? Tell me, how many passes over 50 yards did Moore connect on? How many red zone TD's did he throw?

Stats lie? Anyone who tosses out "10x better" and "more touch" has the same problem. It would have been nice if Moore demonstrated that "touch" and held onto the ball.

Moore was only 12th because he played against the weaker teams AFTER the line and running game got going... and he still couldn't muster a 300 yard game or throw for multiple TD's consistently.

That said, I agree with your last statement. However, they might have to be unless we grab Flynn and he surprises... we won't draft a QB and next year our draft pick will be in the 20's and we will miss out again.

The Dolphins should offer the Packers their entire draft for Rodgers. Next years too. Otherwise we are unlikely to see a "Marino" for another decade.

3 picks for a backup RB was ABSURD!!

This is all very simple to the QB wanters (like me). In drug/alcohol counseling, they feel when the person hits rock bottom, that's when they're most likely to change.

I would have thought '07 was our rock bottom. I was wrong. We bounced back too quickly and haven't reached that low again since.

So now I'm convinced we need to actually hit rock bottom. This might be tough for some of you, but if you REALLY want your team to win, they're going to have to lose first, and lose convincingly.

So we need another 1-15 year. We need blackouts. We need Miami to be a laughingstock (like '07), not just a mediocre nobody (like every other year this decade but two). We need to be blown out by the like of the Rams, the Cards and the Seahawks next year.

Then maybe Ross will have enough understanding of what needs to be done. Until then, I say we all pray for defeat. Only out of the ashes can the Phoenix arise. Rock bottom will be the only thing these folks here understand, unless a QB comes and hits them on the head.

Moore won WITHOUT Jake Long.

Jon Gruden sucks too. Jong Gruden loves to bring in 5 different QBs and then has no idea who to play and uses them as "trade bait." Jond Grudens Defense won him a Super Bowl, not his QB(s)ala Brad Johnson...? Riiight. Just because Gruden breaks down footage on ESPN with the QBs in the draft does not mean he is a good QB coach. Jon Gruden...? No thanks!

AndyNJ, I disagree that he's a caretaker. He was a caretaker his first two years because thats all he was allowed to do. adjust the coverage. Dabol allowed him full control and to attack when he saw fit. He was coming along the first couple games with his one on one reads, and finding Fasano up the seams... his reads WERE really coming along.. He never had a fair chance in my opinion of course.

Some say we should wait and get a QB next year. Will it really be that much easier to get a QB in 2013?

Posted by: Sigh

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Miami will not have a top-10 draft pick next year due to a VERY EASY SCHEDULE. While there may be more QB prospects, Miami wouldn't be in any better position to likely get a TOP QB next year as this year. I don't see the Rams trading the pick to Miami (likely Browns) so Miami isn't getting Luck, RGIII or Blackmon. Tough spot to be in. Look for Miami to draft a Right Tackle.

Mike,

Using reason on this blog about Henne is as effective as using a bottle-rocket to get to the moon.

Fix the line in 08
Fix the line in 09
Fix the line in 10
Fix the line in 11
Fix the line in 12

Anybody see a pattern..

Jeff Fisher wasn't the solution. Only reason I wanted him was I was hoping it would mean to the demise of Jeff Ireland whom is the bigger problem. Since it doesn't seem Ireland is going anywhere until his knee pads wear out, I'm sure we can get a better coach then Mr. 500.

Fix the line in 08
Fix the line in 09
Fix the line in 10
Fix the line in 11
Fix the line in 12
Anybody see a pattern..

Posted by: Spiderman | January 17, 2012 at 02:08 PM

Yes, it revolves around a dysfunctional & imcompetent Head Coach & GM.

Fix the line in 08
Fix the line in 09
Fix the line in 10
Fix the line in 11
Fix the line in 12

Anybody see a pattern..

Posted by: Spiderman

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

No need to fix the line anymore since we signed Marc Columbo last year. He is a stud. LOL.

Mike,

We will agree to disagree. I always said if Henne was given the opportunity to let loose in his first 2 seasons he would of thrown 20 plus ints.

Dan Henning's play calling wasn't very good but that doesn't take away from the miscues on the field. Chad Henne couldn't read the entire field, the game was too fast for him and he was inaccurate on short and deep throws. His deep balls sailed and his short balls had no touch they were mostly uncatchable missiles the WRs had to stop to catch therefore no YAC. Henne regressed as the season went on last year.

This year he threw it around vs the Patriots who had one of the worst pass defenses in the league. He was a joke vs Houston he didn't even play servicable as a starter that game he was well under 50 percent completion that game and threw his always to be counted on 4th qtr turnover. Against Cleveland he moved them down field to misfire on every red zone opportunity.

If Henne isn't a care taker then he is nothing as a starter. He is a backup all the way in that case.

Im all for trading up and getting Luck or RG111. But lets be honest with ourselves there is no way this front office has the balls to do that and wont do that. So we Dolphin fans must accept that and look at it in a different light.

What they need to do is a bit of the same approach they tried doing with Henne this past offseason. Go out in the draft and free agency and get some weapons and protection for Moore. Moore is not going to be a great QB but he could be decent. Draft Justin Blackmon or trade out of the pick and stockpile some extra picks and then pick Dwyane Allen the TE i think from Clemson, who is the premier TE of this draft class. Go out and get and RT in free agency, anyone available has to be better then Columbo. Also hopefully we can keep much of the coaching staff in tact, like Nolan and Doball. Not for nothing Doball started growing on me and we were producing alot of big chunk yardage that this offense has been missing for many years. If we throwing in a stud pass catching TE or a stud WR like Blackmon (someone mentioned earleir next coming of Calvin Johnson, totally agree this guy is a beast.) And another year of Matt Moore behind the helm are offense might not be too bad. Then go draft a QB in the 3rd or 4th round (i say Kellen Moore of Boise st, this guy has very high football IQ and is worth a shot.) We should have been drafting a QB every year. (Im not saying 1st round every time but 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 always draft a QB every year , it is the most important position, you can never have enough quality back ups and it always makes for competition.)

Other then that I just hope the coach that comes in here doesnt starting taking apart everything we have. One of our biggest problems is always having a turnstyle of different coaches in Miami, and that is rough on the players always having to learn new schemes and plays.)

The two years following "Gruden's" Super Bowl victory....
Tampa Bay finished 7-9 and 5-11, the first Super Bowl winning team to follow up with consecutive losing seasons. Followed by 11-5, 4-12, 9-7 and 9-7.
Gruden record: 57-55,3 playoff appearances and 1 super bowl (the year directly after he took over for Dungy)
Gruden is no dummy though, He won't coach again until another "Super Bowl caliber" team falls in his lap.

ESPNsucks

Brad Johnson was not a terrible Quarterback. He was efficient. 5 TDs to 3 picks in the postseason the year he won the superbowl. sacked 1 time. ONCE. He also completed almost 55% of his passes. Thats not terrible. Thats Chad Pennington-like. IE, Gruden? He's a QB's COACH. not a "QB" Coach, but lets his QB dictate the game. Having said that, without an offensive line to deal with the Giants and the Packers of the NFL, an efficient QB is pointless. But Coaches that "suck" don't win Super Bowls. just my opinion of course.. and i'm certainly not saying an "efficient" QB is all it takes... absolutely not in todays game... but just stating your opinion of "he sucks, he sucks" doesn't say much...

I just presesnted as to why...

AndyNJ

I'll agree to that. again.. I just wanted more from Henne. And I think not having to learn a new system every year would have helped. thats all. He certainly did regress.

Also..
"Against Cleveland he moved them down field to misfire on every red zone opportunity."

Why did we throw three straight passes from the 2 yard line when we spent a 2nd round pick on a bruiser running back like D. Thomas?? :D TERRIBLE play calling.

I will agree that the play calling in the redzone was a joke all year. I watched every play and when we were in the redzone I usually said something along the lines of "YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!"

TRADE FOR TEBOW!! OFFER OUR 1ST FOR TEBOW.

Mike,

Yeah the Cleveland game at the 2 was a complete head scratcher. But truth is Thomas is not a bruiser. He rather be a shifty open field back. He reminds me a lot of Ronnie Brown. He can bust tackles in the open field on game with the best of them as he did vs Houston and some vs Cleveland but also fall on first contact as well.

Thomas looks right on course with Brown. Can't stay healthy or push through injuries. He averaged 3.5 per carry and longest run was I think 28 yards. He was very disappointing as a rookie.

I always liked Reggie Bush's skill set and the way New Orleans used him but he put in the extra time to succeed as a starting RB this season and at 1086 and over 5 yards per carry is very impressive. Thomas needs to get on the Reggie Bush workout plan because he was too soft this year.

People here will be REAL disappointed when they find out their GM isn't a great talent evaluator. Only reason NOT to get a QB, and do it from the outside in, is if the GM hits on most of his players (not role players, but playmakers).

Do WE have that type of GM? Before you answer that, go check the post-Season grade of the GM. We had exactly ONE playmaker from the '11 class - Mike Pouncey. While others were ok (Clay, Wilson), I doubt you can count either as essential to this team this year.

In 2010, we had exactly ZERO playmakers. You can argue who was closest (Odrick vs. Jones), but again, neither is considered anywhere NEAR a top performer on ANY team in this league.

And keep going back to '08, and you have LESS than a handful of playmakers.

Geez, at this rate, it'll only take, what, 10 years before Miami gets enough playmakers to be successful? Of course, by then, there will be turnover, and we'll be looking to replace some of those playmakers with others.

And the vicious cycle continues...

ESPNsucks

Mine was slightly more vulgar than that. Drinking beer should not be allowed while watching a Dolphins game, they need a disclaimer. Probably many a smashed plasmas...

Bill - Surely you jest!

I suppose I should have quoted "bruiser" ...

Is it possible to trade the Colts for the #1 spot to get Andrew Luck? Despite what we'd have to give up, I'm wondering if it's possible (if the Colts would do it). If so, I think we should seriously consider it. Without a legitimate QB, our future will always be in jeopardy. Look at the teams who win. They have pocket passers. RG3 had a great year, no doubt, but we've seen time and again that scrambling QBs do not win SB's. Who wins? Pocket passers. I would leverage the future to bring in Luck. He's arguably the best QB to come out of college with all the tangibles and intangibles in the several years, maybe more. Is it a possibility?

The Dolphins best move might be to trade their # 8 or 9 pick into the 20's. Get a #2 this year and a #1 next year. Then in next years draft you would have two #1's and you could possibly make a move for Barkley from USC. It would also give you a better idea on Moore. He played well in most games but can he sustain it? One more year will let you know.

Dear Fans,

I know I'm not popular with you. I blame myself! I've made a bunch of mistakes. But, I just want you to know that I spent much time researching knee pads & elbow grease this offseason so I can go into the draft & free agency & find every acorn I can.

Have patience fans, by 2020, I'll have us back to .500% ball. We don't need a QB or playmakers. We need more acorns!

Sincerly,
Jeff Ireland

The fade/jump ball to the corner of the endzone on the 1 yard line to Hartline took the freaking cake.

Also, I get tired of our defense being within their own 5 yard line while I am screaming "WATCH THE QB DRAW" only then to watch one of our LBs follow the fullback out to the edge as the opposing QB walks into the endzone.
c'mon man!

OMG, some of you people think that just because Miami wants a QB that they just trade up and get one, no problem its done everyday. Wake TFU people first you have to have someone to trade with, second you have to be willing to give up a ton of picks for that person, Now even if you do that are we sure that RG is a real franchise QB, or are we just so fed up with things that we will do anything even if it turns out to bite us in the butt. Trading up and giving up so many draft picks (and yes it would take a lot) is stupid for not a sure fire thing. All you have to do is go back at look at some of the sure fire QB's that were takin in the first round to see that you could get screwed for sure if you mess this up (think about J. Russel)!

M48
I agree with you that you would have to be about 99.99% sure the QB you were taking was going to be the man for the next 12 years, as far as trading a bunch of high quality picks for him. If it is just the 1 first round pick, I think you can take a lot more of a chance in that regard.

After all the hyperbole, the bottom line is simply this; do we have a coach, players and QB that can beat Belichick, his players and Brady?

And now to further exacerbate the problems the Dolphins are having in finding a coach, the Colts have fired Caldwell. If you were offered both jobs which one would you take?

I'm sure glad Ireland and Ross have been taking their sweet time on this process. They wanted Fisher and didn't get him. They should be talking to Billick, Chudzinski and Carmichael but they haven't and they probably won't.

Mark my words, they're going to hire Mike Zimmer and switch to a 4-3 defense which only serves as further evidence (like we needed any more) that Ireland has NO plan in place for this franchise. To say that he is making it up as he goes along is putting it mildly. Ireland wants someone he's comfortable with not somebody who will challenge him. This team is doomed until he's gone.

The Dolphins best move might be to trade their # 8 or 9 pick into the 20's. Get a #2 this year and a #1 next year. Then in next years draft you would have two #1's and you could possibly make a move for Barkley from USC. It would also give you a better idea on Moore. He played well in most games but can he sustain it? One more year will let you know.

Posted by: albert

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

There is no one sitting at 8 or 9 that would likely cause a team to give up next years #1 to move up and grab them. Plus Miami is too stupid to pull of a trade to acquire a #1. If you take a look at every time Ireland and Parcells have traded back, they have gotten questionable value. Then they generally don't pick anyone good with those picks. I think it is a BAD idea unless you have someone targeted in the late first round (such as a TE).

chuckp @ 2:33 - Highly unlikely scenario in RE to being able to trade for Luck. I'm sure Miami will make an offer, but I don't think any offer from anyone could pull Luck away from the Colts. They are very fortunate that as Manning's career winds down (could possibly be over)...that they are in the position to take the best QB prospect since Manning and be set for another decade at least.

In RE to RGIII...I think a lot of what gets discussed in RE to RGIII being a running QB has a lot to do with perception and stereotyping. Unfortunately, because he's black, RGIII is automatically lumped in with the likes of Mike Vick and Vince Young. While it's true that RGIII is very athletically gifted, if you watch him play and take a look at the stats, you will see that he is actually a pass first guy.

RGIII prefers to make the play out of the pocket. If that can't be done, he will extend the play with his legs to buy time. If that doesn't work, he will take off and run with it. He's by no means a "run first" QB. If you look at some of the scouting sites, you will find that many compare his athleticism and the way he plays the game to Steve Young....rather than V Young or Mike Vick.

Also, I wouldn't necessarily agree in calling the likes of Rodgers, Big Ben, and even Brees true "pocket passers". These guys tend to move very well and extend a lot of plays with their legs. Eli and Brady are definitely pure pocket passers.

RGIII is black? Is his mom a prostitute?

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