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Miami's 'intimate knowledge' a good thing

Work with me on this ...

The Dolphins hired Joe Philbin as their head coach. He was the offensive coordinator at Green Bay and so one supposes he is familiar with Green Bay reserve quarterback Matt Flynn, who is expected to be available as a free agent this offseason as he searches for a starting job.

Philbin hired Mike Sherman as his offensive coordinator. Sherman was the head coach at Texas A&M where one supposes he became very familiar with starting quarterback Ryan Tannehill. Tannehill is available in the coming draft as perhaps the third or fourth-rated quarterback in the draft.

General manager Jeff Ireland, meanwhile, is a graduate of Baylor University. One supposes he still has ties to Baylor, where quarterback Robert Griffin III did great work in winning the Heisman Trophy in 2011. Griffin will be in the draft and could be the first or second player selected and a target for the Dolphins if they get the hankerin' for trading up.

So, pardon me for doing a lot of supposing here, but I'm supposing the Dolphins should have an advantage over other teams when it comes to knowing and understanding Flynn, Tannehill and Grffin.

"I guess you could suppose that, couldn't you?" Ireland told me during his appearance on my radio show, Armando and Perkins on 640 Sports (640-AM in South Florida) Tuesday. "Yeah, you know, we have some intimate knowledge of a lot of different people. Obviously with Mike and Joe and my ties to those universities and obviously the work that our scouts do -- my pro scouts and college scouts and how they surround themselves with resources and people -- we have intimate knowlege of the market. And that's a good thing."

It is a clear advantage in a situation where more information is always better. Of the five top quarterback possibilities for the Dolphins this offseason, including Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck, the Dolphins are ahead of the game on the three mentioned above. They obviously have work to do in gathering information on Manning and Luck, but I have serious doubts Luck is within reach so really, the issue is they know three of the likely four players on an "intimate" level.

Advantage Miami.

The Ireland interview is below. In fact, the entire 8 o'clock hour of the show is below, including our interview with Mike Florio of Profootballtalk.com:

2012-01-31_0131_8am

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Ireland is aware of the comments about playing with elite quarterbacks that Brandon Marshall made following his winning of the MVP award at the Pro Bowl.

Marshall said his job was easier when he was catching passes from elite quarterbacks because they "put the ball in the right spots." Marshall also agreed with me when I said on my twitter account that if the Dolphins improve the quarterback position, they improve that position and Marshall at the same time. He retweeted my tweet.

Some of you took exception with the comments for various reasons, among them that they were a slap at Moore. Ireland disagreed.

"I don't know if it's a slap in the face at all," he said. "Matt did a nice job this year. And he's going to continue to develop as any quarterback we bring in is going to do. When you're over there and playing with Pro Bowl quarterbacks, they do things differently than some other guys. They're there for a reason. You've got the Tom Bradys of the world, and obviously he wasn't over there, but you have the Ben Roethlisbergers and Drew Breeses of the world and they're Pro Bowl quarterbacks. They play at a little different level than other quarterbacks. But that's not a slap at Matt. Matt did a great job and I think Brandon would tell you Matt did a great job."

I agree.

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The Dolphins continue to fill out their coaching staff. I've been told Jim Turner, a longtime friend of offensive coordinator Mike Sherman who served as the Aggies offensive line coach the past three years, is close to being hired in Miami. I presume he will coach the offensive line.

No announcement has been made by the team. Turner has never coached in the NFL. He did coach at Delaware, Northeastern, Harvard, Temple and Louisiana Tech. He also served from 1990 to 1994 in the United State Marine Corps.

So one supposes discipline will not be an issue with his unit.

Semper Fidelis.

 

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Doing some research on Flynn this morning and found an interesting nugget:

Matt Flynn had a wonderlic score of 38...which is off the chart smart.

Scouts use the 26-27-60 formula to determine if they will succeed at the NFL level:

26 = minimum wonderlic score
27 = minimum number of starts
60 = minimum completion %

Matt Flynn = 38-13-56.1 - or 1 of 3
Chad Henne = 22-47-59.7 - or 2 of 3
Matt Moore - unavailable

other noteworthy QB's

(wonderlic over 30)
Eli Manning: 39-37-60.8
Tom Brady: 33-25-62.3
Aaron Rodgers: 35-22-63.8
Matt Ryan: 32-32-59.9
Alex Smith: 40-22-67.5
Matthew Stafford: 38-34-57.1

(wonderlic in the 20's)
Tim Tebow: 22-41-66.4
Ben Roethlisberger: 25-38-65.5
Mark Sanchez: 28-16-64.3
Michael Vick: 20-19-56.4

(wonderlic <20)
David Garrard: 14-38-57.0
Derek Anderson: 19-38-50.7
Troy Smith: 15-28-62.7
Tyler Palko: 18-35-60.0

I focused on the wonderlic because clearly if your wonderlic score is over 30 and your completion % was near or above 60, you are a proven WINNER in the NFL.

Sure there are winners with wonderlic's in the 20's, but something about the combo of wonderlic above 35 and completion % above 60 that marks a franchise QB.

With that in mind...I think I'm starting to warm up to Matt Flynn as the Dolphins starting QB.

Ahhh, sounds good.

Of course, Marino is no rocket scientist...

but he had a rocket arm....

Yup.

Marino had football smarts, which are not really measurable by those tests. Beyond that, I must admit he seems pretty shallow. He is the most boring, least talented ex-jock commentator on the nfl networks.

Flynn does have some red flags...with the total number of starts a glaring one:

13 starts @ LSU
2 starts @ GB

That is really green and not much to go on if you ask me.
But he clearly has smarts and his completion % hovers in the high 50's but does not exceed 60, which could be considered a red flag as well.

good read nh. i'm gonna post it on the ss.

Dear Mr. Salguero

I came apon this while reading "Match.com and "EHarmony.com"

Young GM of a major sports franchise in the Miami Fla area looking for a young energetic Franchise QB for long term relationship

Must love Long drives that end in blissfullness of the endzone.

Will consider long drives that end up in the red zone for 3 point field goals, but fistpumping is a major turn off for me.

My likes : Strong arm and leadership skill a big plus. TD's will make us a match made in heaven.

My dislikes : Interceptions and sacks.

A little about myself : In the past I had a problem with back stabbing, but I am working to control this defect.

I also have a tendencise to brown nose my boss, but hey...I'm still employed in a high profile job.

I've enclosed a picture of myself (picture of Brad Pitt from the movie "Troy")


Soiled :)

P.S. No Fatties or A.J. feeleys, McNabbs and Robo Henne's need apply

dcm's was like 12-13 so,the exception to the rule.

lol

soiled. ur's too on the ss.
lol

YG (from yesterday) regarding Manning being ready last half of upcoming season: I think you're right. But that won't stop a few teams.

Manning at 80% is better than some current QBs. But I think the bigger picture is where Manning wants to play. And I don't see him wanting to play in Miami for a couple of reasons.

LMAO, holy crap, Odin went all Home.

Wow, just read last nights post. What a mess

NH, awesome post with the wonderlic. I'm a big believer in it too. Which is part of the reason I'm a big rg3 believer. I know he's going to kill that test.

But you're right, the smarts makes me feel good about Flynn. He still needs to show he can chuck it though. But I've always liked a smart qb too.

Soiled, brilliant!

Yup, Odin jumped the shark last night.

he's sleeping it off.lol

Good morning guys,

As some of you are aware of I am all in on Matt Flynn. I think he is a good fit in a West Coast offense. He throws a nice ball with excellent touch on the passes which allows his receivers to run after the catch. I haven't seen YAC in Miami since I think Henne threw Ginn that bomb on Monday night vs the Jets 2 years ago. Flynn doesn't have a rocket arm and he isn't going to be Rodgers, Brees or Brady but go back to conference championships and what you had was Alex Smith (game manager), Flacco (good) and Eli (good-very good). Brady is the only elite QB to make it. So get over it guys not every team can get an All Time Great but good-very good QB play should be a realistic expectation. At least it gives Miami a chance at the playoffs and once you get in there is no telling what can happen.

But this article is from SI.com. I was very pessimistic about the Packers franchising Flynn but this gives me hope Miami doesn't have to give anything up other then money (which isn't our money btw for all you guys who keep bringing up how much he will get paid. Who cares?)

SI article:
The Packers may have some wiggle room with their 2012 salary cap, but it may not help them keep Matt Flynn. According to a source with access to NFL salary information, the Packers have $113,356,169 dedicated to their '12 salary cap. ... For all those who think the Packers can put a franchise tag on QB Matt Flynn and then trade him, consider that the Packers would have to fit in the $14 million one-year tender by releasing players. They also would need to have a deal in place with Finley so that he could not walk away an unrestricted free agent. So, to do the Flynn maneuver, they'd have to sign Finley (and the others) AND find a way to clear $10 million to $14 million off their cap. It's not going to happen.

Sounds like it Mark. I myself don't post as much as I used to because of the juvenile crap that goes on here too often these days.

Tried to read some of last nights posts and WTF is up with Odin, Talk about a meltydown, Anywho, I guess thats what happens when you post for over 17 hours.

What does Philbin say about Flynn, The guy might not want him, Anyone hear If Philbin is high on flynn?, I havent heard 1 word.

FP4,

He can't say anything about Flynn it would be considered tampering by NFL rules and prevent them pursuing Flynn once Free Agency opens

NHFINSFAN,

Thanks for the breakdown on the QBs. Curious where you came up with Flynn's completion %? Is that a combo of his College and pro numbers or just College. For the pros, he's 62.1, OK but not great.

Thanks.

Craig M,

Im quick to point out every time that Flynn's completion percentage in 2 starts is 67.9%. Don't get me started lol.

It is so crazy to think that Matt Moore would be going into this season as Matt Flynn's backup. Just nuts!

Thank You Andy, Who else do you see out there for possible FA QB??

Andy, I'm not crazy about Flynn but not totally against it either. I see him as a clear secondary option. But you're right, qb doesn't need to be top three. For example, if he turns out as good as matt schaub, good enough.

This place gets scary at night.....wow

Joe, you're right. I've had enough of the posters who come here just to provoke and not talk football. And if you aren't talking football, at least be intelligent and humorous. Otherwise, prepare to he ignored.

AndyNJ,

You have to care about what they pay Flynn. The NFL doesn't work that way. To throw crazy money at the guy is a lost opportunity to sign other FAs and keep our existing ones. It's a jigsaw puzzle, man and it's all got to fit together. It's part of a GM's job to make the right move...the one that won't set the franchise back years. The Kolb moves looks to be a stupid one for Arizona, in that they gave up a player, a pick and a lot of money. The Palmer move to the Raiders was a crazy move and will set them back for some time to come.

I get that your are completely sold on Flynn but there are some of that aren't there yet. Until we're sure, caution should be the order of the day.

I'm thinking Philbin looks at what he has in Miami. If he thinks Moore is capable enough to hold down the fort he goes after one, maybe two qb's, in the draft and starts his own qb factory.
I think Philbin would be more interested in bringing in some offensive line help and maybe another receiver and some defensive help thru free agency to build the team rather than spending the money on an untested qb.

Some "analysts" are now saying it would be less of a risk for Miami to take Flynn than other teams such as Cleveland because we have Flynn's old coach.

Do you all agree with this?

Professor Lou,

Andy and I have probably debated this ad naseum. I just don't see that Flynn is a CLEAR upgrade on Moore at this point. I can't see how you take a guy who played decent for us last year and say 'Good job. Now go sit on the bench, while we go sign this other guy from GB, who's only started two games in the NFL and we're going to pay him a lot more than you and hand him your job'. HUH? What happened to WINNING the starters job. If they sign Flynn, to presumably a lot more money than Flynn, they will in essence be handing the job to Flynn. Is that what want for this team? Isn't that what guys claimed happened with Henne last year and were upset about? Just not getting the thinking here.

Lou, You might be right about bringing in more lineman(Though I hate the Idea) Seems that for 3 years Tony(Who was a O-Line coach in Dallas) couldnt put together a line up that he liked, Unbelievable considering the amount of Money the O-Line made, And then bringing in MR. Turnstile Colombo was even more insane., Lets be Glad Tony is now OC for the jets.

Prof. Lou, interesting thought. Please tell us one journeyman QB who led his team to the Playoffs in the last year or 2 (I don't count TJ Yates from Houston because he didn't get his team to the Playoffs, Shaub did)? All I see are elite QBs in the Playoffs.

So please explain "capable enough?" Is that 9 wins, whoopdiiiidooo?

Not trying to start a fight, just saying that you can have a Porsche body, Ferrari interior, but if your engine is stolen from a Gremlin, that car ain't gonna be all that!

FP4,

No problem man. Obviously Peyton Manning "IF" healthy would be the top of everyone's wish list. Outside of a Peyton Manning fantasy I think Flynn just makes the most sense because of familiarity with Joe Philbin and the West Coast offense. Outside of them 2 guys there is no FA I want. It would be just another band aid when we need to sew up the QB position with staples!

If Miami doesn't land either the only way to go is the draft. Now if the reason Miami didn't land either Manning or Flynn is because they were outbid for whatever reason by say Washington (Manning) and Cleveland (Flynn) for both players then that's the only way RG3 becomes a realistic possibility.

So realistically and without hypothetical situations I think it just makes the most sense for Miami to pursue Flynn unless Philbin who knows him better then anyone says he is not the answer. I tend to think on a hunch that Philbin likes Flynn and wants to build the team around him. Again just a hunch.

Toronto,

Agreed!

If we can't trade up for RGIII, I would likely do this:

Someone suggested a tradedown to 17 with Cinci and pick up an extra second. Then hopefully we could parlay a second (and maybe something else) for an extra first next year. Go into NEXT with TWO firsts and hopefully have tha ammunition to draft one of those three QBs next year in the first.

The only exception I would make to the above, if Sherman and company are CONVINCED that Tanehill could be a star down the road, then draft him at 9 (assuming he's still there). Personally I want another pass rusher in the first round, but if they have conviction on Tannehill then take him at 9 and DON'T trade down.

6-6, that's my point. You don't bet the farm 4 years removed from a Playoff appearance on a 6-6 QB. You just don't. You look to upgrade.

We're about to hire a new line Coach. Who came from a team (albeit college) that gave up the least sacks in the country. How about we see what real Coaching can do, instead of garnering 5 #1 drafted linemen?

DC,
I'm not getting the point.

Oh Lord! Famous last words: Get one of the top QBs NEXT year.

Dolphins translation: Don't hold your breathe. Time to take another lineman.

But at least Craig is talking trading UP for a change, now we just have to make sure Ireland understands up in this respect means lower in number (like lower than 8-9, got that Jeffy).

DC,

I'm not sure what you are calling a 'journeyman' QB, but if you are talking a 'middle of the pack' QB, I would consider in that group that Hasselbeck, Flacco and Sanchez, not only took their teams to the playoffs but actually won at least ONE game. I would add to that list that Kurt Warner in his final season took the Cards to the Super Bowl, Rex Grossman took the Bears to the Super Bowl and Jake Delhomme took the Panthers to the Super Bowl.

I'm not sure the point we're arguing but just stating facts....we all want an elite QB....if you have solid plan to get us one, I'm all ears.

Lou,

If Matt Moore is your QB starting day next Season, something went HORRIBLY wrong (or he had some Tom Brady-like conversion).

Remember last time Moore had a great Season. What followed. Disaster.

Be careful what you wish for is all. History repeats itself, unfortunately with stunning regularity on this team.

The "argument" seems to be that Flynn would be acceptable in Philbin decides he is the way to go.
What if Philbin decides he can work with Moore and makes him the starter?
The other argument is "Flynn knows the playbook and he's worked in the system."
Moore was brought in late and did what I would consider a darn good job of catching up on the playbook and got better as the season went on.
I would say the long drive he led the team on in the last game against the Jets was pretty good.

Lets hope they get a top notch conditioning coach to help this team out, Was Embarressed by the 1st game on national TV with our players falling all over the place while the Pats were going up and down the field.Then Tony decides to give his guys a etra day off cause of "The Tough loss" Have fun Jets fan.

DC,

It's fine to critique and I get your frustration but give us the fool proof plan....

Let's forget Luck.....never happening in a million years.....unless of course he refuses to play in Indy, which is always possible.

RGIII.....huge competition for his services and Cleveland and Washington can trump anything we do......

NEXT?

I went through those posts, too. Agreed this guy Odin needs some help. Threatening to "blow up" the forum if he doesn't like what he sees?? That's more than a little juvenile (not to mention weird).

All the drama here seems to have him as a common factor. Wish this was more a football blog.

Be careful what you wish for is all. History repeats itself, unfortunately with stunning regularity on this team.
Posted by: DC Dolfan | February 02, 2012 at 11:56 AM

I'm saying the same about Flynn. Don't forget, he was able to just sit back and pick his receivers at random in the Detroit game. No pressure, no hurries. That doesn't happen in every game. How's he going to play when he's being pressured and when the game is on the line and has to come back to win the game or lead the team down the field on a game winning drive? I don't even think Philbin knows that because he's never seen him do it.

I Would'nt be totally against Moore, He showed flashes that he can play, Though sometimes he showed flashes he could'nt.,At least he was more entertaining then Henne.

Craig, we've debated your points to death. Flacco/Sanchez were on teams with #1 or #2 defenses. Do we have that? Will we with ANY pick in the draft next year? Answer is probably no. Also, Flacco got his team to the Playoffs every year he's been in the NFL (not sure what you call that if it's not elite).

Kurt Warner, that's rich, after he won a SB in St. Louis. Also, I meant to say "journeyman undrafted FA QB" so I'd throw off all these references to #1 drafted QBs who made the Playoffs.

Grossman, geez, was that in the last year or 2? However, again, top defense in the league, not likely gonna happen in Miami. Delhomme, I also can find a name 50 years ago that would count as an exception, what does that have to do with the NFL TODAY?

Again, I'll ask you, what journeyman (non 1st or even 2nd rd) QB can you name who's gotten his team to the Playoffs IN THE LAST YEAR OR TWO? Modern day NFL. Not when they were wearing leather helmets.

Craig M,

On your 11:38 post. I agree you should watch what you pay any player but if Philbin is sold on Flynn that is all I need to know and at that point a fair deal isn't going to be fair when Flynn is being pursued. I think he will be over paid even if not immensely over paid. All highly sought after free agents usually are.

But I see your point. Again, though if Philbin wants Flynn a guy who is familiar with Flynn and has coached him for 4 years then I am all in. At that point Philbin ties his HC career to Flynn and if one fails they both fail.

I don't see Flynn as AJ Feely or Scott Mitchell or Kolb or anyone else. I see him as succeeding because he won't be going to a new staff that knows nothing about him. He will be going to Joe Philbin who has seen Flynn every practice, scrimmage, OTA, and game of his career. IF Philbin gives the green light on Flynn I think it's realistic to EXPECT the playoffs in the near future and anything less would be a complete failure.

I have said it over and over I don't see Aaron Rodgers, Brees, Brady but I do see that next tier of Matt Ryan, Schaub type in his ability in that particular offense.

Lou, agreed that Detroit game shouldn't be used as a true barometer with Flynn.

That game meant absolutely NOTHING to either team, so I tend to see it as a virtual practice game despite Flynn's very impressive stats.

Not a knock on him at all. Just saying that particular game shouldn;t have outsize importance.

If this team wants to beat the Pats (and I think we all agree that's the goal), we need to upgrade the pass rush. It's not good enough! The Giants and Jets have shown us before how to beat Brady.....why are we trying to re-invent the wheel? Everyone wants a 'franchise' QB.....great, I'm onside with that....WHO and WHEN?

In the meantime, we've got Cam Wake who has this team over a barrell this off-season and will very likely want to be paid like a top linebacker in the league. He doesn't get it, he might hold out......what's the plan?

You're not going to beat Brady consistently by getting into shootouts with him but you can beat him by getting in his face. Giants did it in the Super Bowl and they are going to try and do it again Sunday.

Ross wants a QB that helps fill seats in the Stadium. Shula told Philbin,"You have to fix the QB". So, a QB will be. Now, what if no QB meets those standards? If that were the case, it will be up to Ireland to convince Ross of that fact.

Prof. Lou, interesting thought. Please tell us one journeyman QB who led his team to the Playoffs in the last year or 2 (I don't count TJ Yates from Houston because he didn't get his team to the Playoffs, Shaub did)? All I see are elite QBs in the Playoffs.

Posted by: DC Dolfan | February 02, 2012 at 11:46 AM

DC,

So now you're changing you argument. YOu asked what QB in the last couple of years and I just gave you Hasselbeck, Sanchez and Flacco. Not only lead but won at least one game.

Flacco's 'elite'? How do you figure? You just said 'his defence got him there'. Where would you rate Flacco in the league today?

Craig,
Melvin Ingram. Going to the 4-3 with Ingram on one end, Odrick at tackle, Langford at the other tackle and Starks at the other end.
McDaniel in the rotation and then maybe pick up another guy in mid round like Kheeston Randall or Akiem Hicks for depth.

DC,

Add Alex Smith to that list too. The fact he was a first roound QB means nothing....he's average at best, as he showed in the last game.

Craig/Lou, look, I agree with both of you, there IS NO foolproof plan. They are ALL chancey. Stick with Moore, ok, good luck. Go with Flynn, a 2-game tested QB, wish apon a star.

Luck/RG3, get ready to mortgage the future and hope it works, or that you can EVEN make it happen (moving up).

Manning, hope he can throw, hope he doesn't get knocked out of the 1st game (like Penney). Most importantly, hope he'd see some reason to come here.

I'm personally just talking about a plan. My idea is to TRY AND get yourself the best, likeliest franchise QB available this year, to start this new term with Philbin, and let it ride and see what you got.

Or, Craig, to your point, you can try and improve the defense to becoming a Top 3 and maybe an average QB can be a temporary stand-in.

It's up to Philbin and Ireland, WHAT DO THEY WANT THIS TEAM TO BECOME?

Don't just tinker with some parts of the O, some parts of the D (like they've done last few years), have a strategic plan. Have a goal in mind. Create an identity.

I'm not mad at you guys, I'm mad at the history of this team. And I'm looking to the new HC to bring some intelligence to this process. Unfortunately, it's too soon or Mando's in Indy and not trying to report on it, or nothing to that effect is happening. I just hope it's being worked on as we speak, March is only a month away (and things will be going quickly when FA opens).

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