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... And another thing that makes Manning wrong choice

A couple of days ago I made the case why I'm not too fond of the idea of the Dolphins signing Peyton Manning to be their starting quarterback in 2012.

I'm not done.

Moving on from Manning's health questions, his age question, his eventual decline, his being a short-term fix at best when the quarterback problem requires a long-term solution, I've come up with annother issue to ponder as I continue to swim upstream on an idea the Dolphins apparently are intent on developing.

I was reminded by a former coach yesterday that adding Peyton Manning to your team can become a royal pain in the posterior.

The point was made to me that whatever team Manning joins will have to make concessions for him. The team will have to run an offense he's familiar with to maximize his talent immediately because, after all, he's going to be 36 years old and time is short. No time for him to learn a new system and get comfy in the system and start to produce maybe late in the year and maybe next year.

In the Dolphins case, that would likely mean new coach Joe Philbin and offfensive coordinator Mike Sherman learning a system Manning is comfortable with rather than the other way around.

So let me get this straight: The Dolphins hire Philbin because they admire his work in Green Bay. They like the Green Bay model. They like the Green Bay system. And he hires buddy Mike Sherman, who was at Green Bay and feels a kinship with Philbin and the system he wants to run.

And having all that familiarity available to them, the Dolphins would scrap it all to make Manning comfortable with a system similar to the one he's run the past 14 years? They would make Manning the de-facto offensive coordinator?

One of the advantages everyone assumed the Dolphins would enjoy by hiring Philbin was expertise on soon-to-be free agent quarterback Matt Flynn, who played under Philbin in Green Bay and is obviously familiar with that system. Assuming Philbin wanted to make some tweaks to the system, the foundation was still going to remain and Flynn was going to enjoy a head start if he joined the Dolphins because he is very familiar with that foundation.

And the Dolphins are simply going to turn their back on that?

That would be better?

I have to say this: The reason everyone knows the Dolphins are enamored with the idea of signing Peyton Manning if he becomes available is because owner Stephen Ross loves the idea. And he's the boss. He is apparently going to make this call come heck or high water.

Everyone knows this as fact because Ross has let his feelings be known on the subject.

But no one knows how Philbin feels about it. Nobody knows general manager Jeff Ireland's opinion on the subject. Don't they get a vote?

Do Miami's football men have the ability to say 'No' to the owner if all their football wisdom tells them to go in a different direction away from Manning?

Now, I suppose it is possible Ross spouted his opinion on chasing Manning after careful consideration and conversation with both Ireland and Philbin. (For Miami's sake, I hope that's the case.) But knowing the Dolphins as I do, my guess is no such conversation took place before Ross indirectly made his desires known.

Despite my worst fear, perhaps such a conversation eventually takes place and Philbin and Ireland are all in on Manning. (Something that will cause me to wonder about both men, but that's another story). At that point it won't be an issue that Philbin might have to subjugate his system for one that fits Manning. At that point it won't be an issue that ownership is dictating which quarterback the team must chase first before checking with, you know, the football experts. Those points would be moot.

But it still raises the question: Why have such a logical connection to a young quarterback after hiring his coach and then going in a totally different direction with an old quarterback? Is that fair to Philbin?

And will it work?

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I don't think Philbin is going to waste a lot of money to go after Matt Flynn. He has a quarterback in Moore who can run his offense just as effectively as Flynn so it doesn't make sense for him to bring Flynn to Miami.
Flynn has no more upside in his offense than Moore does so my belief is that he will put the money to better use and draft a quarterback who could be developed into the future of the franchise. I would also tend to believe that guy would be either Foles or Cousins before Tannehill.

Last year's big free agent quarterback debate was about which team would land Kevin Kolb and when all was said and done it was like a wet fart.
There was one team that was seriously interested in Kolb, the Cardinals, and it will be the same with Flynn. When free agency is finished there will be one or two teams, tops, that really want him and one isn't going to be Miami.

Tom Brady was an acorn in a big ass pile of acorns. We've been searching for over a decade and haven't found a Tom Brady. Enough said...

inbread = inbred?

I hear dueling banjos in the background...

SQUEAL LIKE A PIG BIATCH!

Tom Brady was a needle in a haystack.

The best qb you've never heard about but has simply won won won and has a qb rating and td to int ratio that shreds everyone elses is Steve Banyon of UTM. At 6'4" 235 he has the size and a 4.6 40. Irelend might just stumble into him in the 2nd or 3rd.

Mando,

Great work again, and great to see you looking at the big picture instead of a quick fix. I am too sure that if the team brings Manning it will all be Ross' idea, I seriously doubt Ireland who from what he's been saying as of late appears to actually have learned from previous mistakes and is willing to finally address both holes we have at QB and TE.

Now we could all hope perhaps that this is just a smoke screen and that their "pursue" of Manning would make other teams like the Redskins go after him thus lowering the asking price for RG3 for us.

I hope Mr. Ross is a bit of a poker player and is indeed throwing a huge bluff and the Skins end up with Manning and Cleveland with Flynn (people the guy does not have an NFL arm, he will be Penny all over again, good but not good enough).

That would be the perfect scenario, we would still pay handsomely to the Rams since we would still need to trade up to get RG3 to prevent Jax or Seattle or even Buffalo to get him, but the price we'd in picks will be lower, our 1st pick this year and next and maybe a WR like Hartline and throw a 3rd/4th rounder this year or next. That we can live with easily.

I sure hope this is what they are planning otherwise it will only reaffirm that while Mr. Ross is atop things will not get better any time soon, I hope that is not the case.

Finally your point about Manning and the WCO is a very valid one, these coaches will have to adapt to him, in fact they could just fire both and let Manning be the first Head Coach and QB at the same time in league history LOL. RG3 on the other hand is the perfect WCO prototype at 6'2", 220 lbs, elusive and fast and cannon arm plus all the other intangibles. This guy will not fail in the NFL, he's just too good. Will he be an overnight success? No, neither was Eli in NY and look at them now.

If you were Philbin and picking your QB meant your job in 3 years, and the owner was willing to pay any price for that QB, who would you pick?

I personally think RG3 has the best potential of winning you games in 3 years.

What do you think?

Brian C....

Best post by far...Manning buys you time....how can the team argue against time....

Manning allows you to fix your team....while still being competitive...how can you be against that....

Armando, you should compare yourself to a fish more often.

I picture you as an ANGELfish, my buttercup.

Can we please have more comedy from the illiterate bigot who measures players by racial make-up and calls posters he disagrees with "gay"?

Edify us, citizen josh, about the relationship between a poster's football acumen and sexual orientation...

And offer us more of your keen independent thought ... impugning the intelligence of others with illogical non sequiturs is particularly entertaining when presented in misspelled words and mangled sentence structures!

Now, a translation of the above for josh: I'm saying you're (not "your") a moron and that I take a condescending joy in intellectually "bullying" you ... not unlike the pride you take in bullying others for their race, sexual orientation or for failing to see that a 35-year-old football player coming off three neck surgeries, hoping for neurological regeneration and requiring $15M per year isn't the Dolphins' obvious solution. Get it?

We've heard from multiple places that the Fins actaully DO plan to pursue Manning if he can still pass effectively. So like it or not, they'll place a bid in.
Personally I agree with Armando on Manning, but I think this blog's reason is a litle narrow. Peyton is a smart guy, and is not going to go somewhere he feels he'd have to be OC as well. Yes, he'll have his say with the OC, but ultimately he'll play their game, and probably know their playbook as well as they do within a week. THEN, he'll be running their plays on the field as he sees fit. Peyton is a team player, and he'll be on good terms with the coaches wherever he goes.
Heck, even diva/jerk Favre ran Chilly's plays, and only when they were losing did he confront him .. but never usurped him. Made him look stupid though.

Whether we go after a FA agent QB or not I still say we look long and hard at these guys I list below and where they might fall in the draft. We are not in the worst spot to trade up for RGIII - that would be Seattle. BUT we're not in a good spot for sure. I say RGIII goes either to Cleveland or Washington. So that leaves us with the second tier QB's. Most we'll see more of in the upcoming Combine and some in private workouts but barring FA QB's this is the best of the rest. So unless one of these guys just miraculously turns into the next coming, it will be another crazy year. A little better because of the schedule but still a dry year and more QB talk for next year.

Here is the list. Who do you like?

Ryan Tannehill
Nick Foles
Brock Osweiler
Kirk Cousins
Brandon Weeden
B.J. Coleman -- Long shot

The blog seems to be attracting a lot of newbies today

Hi! My name is oscar canosa and I took Time Out.

A little message for all you people calling Peyton Manning a sure thing because of what he's done in the past : Yes he is one of the greatest QB's of all time but,he will enter the season 36 yrs old with no more than 2 or 3 years left & won't be nearly as good has he's been in the past & that's if he can ever throw again (Acordining to reports he's not even close). He is finished as the great Peyton Manning !!!!. Are only chance is Flynn,RG3 or Tannehill as our franchise QB for the next 10 years.

Did you notice the change in that Giant's D in the 2nd half? Thst was either due to adjustments or an insistence on the Coach's part to execute better. Not sure which.

With all the talk of QB's, I'm curious on everyone's thoughts about Matt Moore?

Can he continue to improve? Do you want to give him a chance he can do it a full year? Throw him out without a chance and move on?

I notice most posts from Armando, and thus the fellow bloggers are about Flynn and Manning. Is Moore worthy of at least the chance to compete in your eyes?

If I remember correctly. Peyton was at the pro bowl a few years ago and said he would be intrigued to play in the west coast offense. Therefore, this story has no relevance. Peyton is so good he could play in any offense he wanted to. Philbin himself said he doesn't even know what a west coast offense is..... Winning is as simple as this, GET GREAT PLAYERS!!!!

The fact of the matter on Manning is this:
His surgery is done, and it is 100% healed. But, there was damage done to the nerves and muscles of the arm. Although everyone is hopeful that damage will alter and return to previous strength, that has been no medical prognosis for whether it will or not .. simply it might. For most teams besdies the Redskins or Raiders this would seem like a very risky hope to invest in. So I am in the same camp. If the hopes come true, and his arm returns to full strength, then feelings may change.
SECOND: ... Manning really is on the last couple years of his career. Wherever he goes, liek the Favre situation, you better be expecting Superbowl or bust. Dolphins are decent, and a playoff team with a semi-normal Manning, but unless his arm is 100%, we'll have a couple of decent seasons and be looking for next QB again. I'm not opposed to the scenario as long as we understand that we're still looking for our next Marino still. STILL.
THIRD: Old immobile QB, gets slammed to the turf, shoulder crunched (maybe neck?), enter back-up QB. This is what I'd expect to see in a crystal ball. Just not willing to pin any hopes on the Peyton years.

Foles has great form and arm. Tannehill has the smarts and great athleticism.

I don't know what the big deal is. Everyone knows we're not gonna sign Manning. Everyone knows we're not gonna sign Flynn. Everyone knows we're not gonna trade up for RG3.

We'll probably end up bringing in someone like Rex Grossman to compete with Moore, or blow a 2nd round pick on some terrible QB who will end up no better than the other 2nd round QB's we have wasted picks on in the past.

TFK

Moore=serviceable backup.

Of course you let Moore compete. If he can't win the job, he is a reliable backup. I trust him more right this second than Flynn and Manning. At least Moore has more than two starts and is healthy.

Texas...
Like Cousins, Weeden, Keenum, and Osweiler in that order.
*Tannehill I simply don't get the accolades. I'm blind apparently to what everyone else sees in him. Project, and raw.
*Foles will be a huge bust somewhere. No intangibles I can see.
*Coleman I don't know anyhing about so I'll do some research.
Keenum and Osweiler will both get nonstop grief for their throw motions. Both throw much too low. But both have good enough accuracy and arm strength to make it. Osweiler is 6-7 but he throws like he's 6-0.

The mark of a great QB is winning Games in the 4th QT.

The mark of a Great Team is winning games during the season and after.

The mark of a great QB is winning games.....period

The Wolfpack has been wakened...

Oscar, by your own standards neither Tannehill nor Foles are great QBs.
Foles won a grand total of 3 games against crappy teams.
Tannehill missed open receivers, fumbled, and threw picks that aided in his team losing.
Out of those two, Tannehill has more upside, but I still see nothing I'd want unless he was sitting around in round 5-6. He's resembles Brantley from UF. Big arm, poor on-the-field decisions and play.
My opinion only, obviously.

Forget Manning! I rather slum it another year or 2 trying to find a guy to fix this frachise for 10+ years... Either trade what we can to move up and get RG3 or roll the dice one Flynn. if Flynn isnt the answer we can do what we can to go after Barkley or Jones next year. This team isnt going to ever be able to compete with the rest of the league until we have the answer at quarterback.

Well, odin, after the Season there are no Games to be won. You shlould have said, regular Season. No?

Pretty sure Odin meant regular and post season

Let him answer.

sorry sir.......just trying to help

Moore, Devlin, Weeden.

Way in their very Selves, there are QB's that win Games.

JS -- You can get a good look at Coleman in the East West Shrine game.

Thanks, Texas.
Just looked. Sorry, not a fan of Coleman. Balls float, which you can get away with in college, but the NFL DB's are too fast and they'll snatch those.
If he puts some zip on those things at the combine he may get some better lookers.
I'll stick to my above list at the moment.

Any person that thinks Peyton Manning will ever be the same QB again is a fool !!!!!. WHY DO YOU THINK THE COLTS ARE GOING TO JUST DUMP HIM ????? He's 36 & maybe by midseason he may have the arm strength of a Chad Pennington,but that's about as much as you can expect from him from here on out. HE IS THROUGH PEOPLE,QUIT LIVING IN THE PAST !!!!!. Our best & most logical oppertunities is with Matt Flynn & Ryan Tannehill.

Let's talk about Manning if and when he's healthy right now all the talk means nothing.

How is Flynn better than Moore?

The best qb you've never heard about but has simply won won won and has a qb rating and td to int ratio that shreds everyone elses is Steve Banyon of UTM. At 6'4" 235 he has the size and a 4.6 40. Irelend might just stumble into him in the 2nd or 3rd.
Posted by: Look no further | February 09, 2012 at 11:55 AM

Apparently, UTM has never heard of him either.

Rick, with all due respect, nobody in the NFL knows 100% what's going to happen with Peyton and how long it will take until he's ready to go...My advice is wait until we know all the FACTS before saying he's done, he's not done, etc etc...I'm sure a lot of people thought Drew Brees was done and he wasn't worth all the money...Well, guess what...He was...Miami is keeping an open mind as they should...

smokescreen with manning maybe

ctphins, we don't know...But we need to bring in more QB's to compete and show if they are or not...The more competition the better...

Home 4 Christ's Sake ;)
February 9, 2012 at 11:04 am


Who in south Florida is really gonna want to commit all the time in money next season to go to the stadium and watch these (yawn) non play off contenders against the Dolphins?

Dolphins will play at home against Jacksonville, Tennessee, St. Louis, Seattle and Oakland

“Home” will be sending the kids to some of these boring snore fest talentless NFL games w his season tickets

Sheesh!

Guess Illuminati member and NFL commissioner Roger really wants the fish to finally WIN a few in a row @ Home
Reply
Home 4 Christ's Sake ;)
February 9, 2012 at 11:07 am

Here is how u sell out Home games for the lowly Dolphins

Billboards w the faces of the franchise of the trio in this order:

Reggie, Peyton, Marshall

*** Finally a Miami Dolphin ticket w a Home Product NFL star power worth purchasing ***
Reply
Home 4 Christ's Sake ;)
February 9, 2012 at 11:10 am

*** Reggie, Peyton, Marshall ***

U like that, Huh?

A real NFL offense!

Now build a phucken 0-line and let’s get it on!

***** The Dynasty Be Fins! *****

;)

John Jerry played pretty well at LT when replacing Jake Long...Could he be a permanent solution at LT? I've always said he's more suited to play at tackle, not inside. He's an athletic guy, he's better in open space (in my opinion anyway). So the question is the following: Would you trade Jake Long, a first next year and in 2014 plus maybe a 4th to the Rams and grab RG3? I would certainly consider it...

But it still raises the question: Why have such a logical connection to a young quarterback after hiring his coach and then going in a totally different direction with an old quarterback? Is that fair to Philbin?
-----------------------------------------------

Armando....you are making the ASSumption that Philbin even WANTS FLYNN....

then YOU insult Philbin by ASSuming that Ross ONLY hired Philbin because of his ties to Flynn....

Why don't you sit back in your ASSuming chair...and let the FOOTBALL people do the JOB they get paid to do....

and instead of posting a bunch of ASSumptions....you get this blog some facts...

Ireland comes on your radio show at least twice a year....have you ever thought to ask him a TOUGH question...with a straight forward face...no giggling...no smilling....and when he dodges it...ask him again....or rephrase it in a manner that might make him more apt to answer it....

The FO has a job to do....and part of the job is to keep 31 other teams and local reporters guessing....

From the looks of this colum...I'd say...mission accomplished.....

The Rams would be getting 2 first round picks, a 4th and a Pro Bowl LT...We'd be getting RG3...Ross, you want to sell tickets?? Get RG3 in South Florida and tickets will sell like pancakes...

i understand, but I don't want to commit that kind of money to Flynn, he is more unproven than Moore. Also he is not the big ticket item Ross wants.

U pick FOUR TIME league MVP, Super Bowl winner and the smartest QB in the phucken NFL

U Stupid simple jackasses!

Know wonder u cannot see chemtrails or understand how the global economic recession started!

Phucken Moronic Dumbed Downed Ignorant Slaves!

Flynn played in only 2 games.
The first game he threw 3 Interceptions
The second was a product of the system in which his screen passes to RBs were highly productive, one drop off pass ended up in RB going 80 YDs rushing
Flynn also fumbled that game

So u throw the best QB in the NFL under the bus and higher an unproven Irish Drunken Bum!

Good Phucking Thing Mando !?!

U r a Phucking Genius !!!

NOT!

Stop thinking Mando, u r embarrassing yourself!

Love, Home 4 Christ's Sake ;)

Home....

Not quite the way I would phrase it...but the point is still the same...and I agree....

It's time this team takes some risks and rolls the dice. I'm tired of playing it safe. I'm tired of 7-9. Take some freaking chances. If Manning is available we want him!

ctphins, that's your opinion and I respect it...I just try to keep an open mind about it...It's easy to say "this guy is it" or "this guy is not"...But bottom line is you hired Joe Philbin for a reason. You either respect his knowledge about QBs or you don't. If he tells Steven Ross and Jeff Ireland that he "strongly" believes Matt Flynn has what it takes to become a very good QB in the NFL, what do you do? You can't just tell the guy he's wrong...If you don't believe a word he says, why did you hire him??

yip mannign 1st choice, draft secondw/moore.

Think about all the buzz in South Florida if the Dolphins would trade up for RG3...All the media talk, the excitement, it would be the talk of the league...People wouldn't just talk about Lebron, Jose Reyes, Dwayne Wade, etc...The talk would also include RG3...Man that would be nice!

Amazing, not even Peyton knows if he will ever be back to form, yet most want to ignore that minor detail and blindly assume he has 3 good years left in the tank. He may not have 3 good weeks left.

Manning isnt going to come to the Dolphin trainwreck. Keep dreamin. The 49ers are a far better choice for him with a great D , running game, and a good HC. He'd also consider the Redskins since he has a relationship with Shanihan. But he may not be able to pass a trade physical and his career may be over anyway. And doubtful cheapo Ross would pay for a Peyton Manning when he balked at paying for Orton.

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