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I'm a salmon swimming upstream on the Manning issue

INDIANAPOLIS -- The Dolphins are going to chase Peyton Manning if he becomes available in free agency. That is already decided. Dolphins owner Stephen Ross loves the idea of Manning and has established him as the offseason quarterback priority.

Manning first.

Matt Flynn second.

Drafting a quarterback third.

The Dolphins see Manning as a way to win games, sell tickets and become relevant again. Within their circle of power, they think Manning can do for Miami what Joe Montana did for the Kansas City Chiefs in the early 1990s -- and if you don't remember, that included one failed trip to the AFC title game in Buffalo.

So why am I against the addition of Peyton Manning?

Let me count the ways:

He is a huge injury risk. Huge! I'm not so much worried about his neck, which has undergone three surgeries in the past 20 months and is clearly a big issue. I'm not worried that a Rex Ryan blitz or Vince Wilfork would catch Manning in precisely the wrong position and injure his cervical spine that has undergone three surgeries in less than two years. The risk of neck injuries are a fact of life for all NFL players.

I'm more concerned with Manning's much-discussed dead nerve condition that has affected his triceps in his throwing arm and has weakened his ability to throw. I was told Sunday that Manning's arm strength has diminished by as much as 40 percent as a result of the weakened triceps muscles. And I was told the issue wasn't just to the point where he can throw on game days, but there would be legitimate worry he can throw four or five times a week.

If you know Manning, you know he relies heavily on building an instinctive relationship with his receivers. He wants them to see what he sees. He wants to know how they run their routes and he wants them to know where he's likely to place the football. The only way to gain that is to throw to them -- a lot.

But there is doubt he could throw day after day even if his nerves regenerate because the muscles in his arm could fatigue more easily than they once did.

But put all that aside for a second. Seriously. Cast that to one side and suppose for a second that Manning's arm will eventually be capable of working about as well as it did when he was in his prime. The fact will remain he won't be in his prime with Miami.

He's 35 years old now and will be 36 next month. That's about the time Dan Marino started his precipitous and sudden decline. Montana, too. Troy Aikman was done by age 34. Steve Young was done by 38. Warren Moon had his last excellent season at 36 although he hung on a couple of more years, toiling in mediocrity.

The fact of the matter is if Peyton Manning plays in the NFL in 2012, he would be the second-oldest starting quarterback in the league and that assumes that Matt Hasselbeck will be starting for the Tennessee Titans -- something the Titans are prepared to change because former first-rounder Jake Locker will be coming into his second season and is the future in Tennessee.

So unless Hasselbeck wins a starting job, Manning might be the oldest starting QB in the NFL.

What about that fact suggests a long-term solution to Miami's quarterback troubles? Oh, that's right, nothing! 

The fact of the matter is if the Dolphins sign Peyton Manning it will be because they cannot solve their QB problem the tried and true way -- through the draft. They will have admitted they cannot identify a potential franchise QB at age 22 or 23 and have the conviction to draft that player, develop that player and win with that player for years and years. They will be saying they must instead take someone else's discarded quarterback, one whose best days are behind, and gamble he still has something left in the tank to serve Miami's desperation.

This is akin to treating a deep wound with a band aid. The band aid may stop some of the bleeding for a short time, but it will not help heal the wound. It will not keep the wound from becoming infected. The Dolphins quarterback situation is a deep, deep wound. And the only way to heal the hurt is finding a player that can fill the spot and play it at a high level for the next 7 or 8 years, not the next year or two ... maybe.

Now, I understand the allure of Manning. You see the possibility and think the Dolphins would be adding Manning in his prime. You see the possibility and think he would make the Dolphins instant contenders and get them to the playoffs. It is a gleaming vision of the possibilities.

I say to you all that shiny stuff reflecting in your eyes is fool's gold. The Dolphins have been down this road before. Four years ago, having no answer at quarterback, the Dolphins turned to often-injured Chad Pennington who fell to them like a blessing from the sky.

And it was good for one season. Pennington's great play led the Dolphins to the 2008 AFC East championship. It was fun. But it was fleeting.

NFL games have a way of finding a man's weakness and Pennington's surgically repaired shoulder was eventually exposed just as Manning's injury will eventually be exposed. And when that happened, the Dolphins were left right back where they started -- looking desperately for a franchise quarterback that they didn't spend a high enough draft pick to select.

(The fact Pennington helped Miami to an 11-5 record also pushed the team well to the back of the pack in the ensuing year's draft.)

That's what would happen if Manning comes to Miami. If Manning signs, the pressure will be on to win now. We'll be in win-now mode even though the coach is new and has a bit of a honeymoon period coming. He will have to produce and general manager Jeff Ireland will have to surround Manning with as much talent to win now as possible.

That means addressing must-haves -- like a right tackle and a pass-rusher. That probably means not drafting a quarterback in the first round because Matt Moore is still under contract and that, along with Manning, is enough use of resources at one position.

So, again, the Dolphins will return to all-in mode with a quarterback that needs to be in that mode because his time is running out. Except the rest of the Dolphins roster isn't ready to be all-in. The rest of the Miami roster needs significant upgrade along the right side of the offensive line, at tight end, on the defensive line and possibly in the secondary where a nickel corner and free safety are needs.

It simply does not fit. And so, I predict, if the Dolphins go with Manning, they may have some short-term gain (at best) but have again set themselves up for more long-term pain -- like 2008 and the years that followed. History repeating.

I know, I know, many of you are all in on Manning. If he comes in and wins a division title, you'll be happy with that. Some of you think he might even win a Super Bowl in Miami in his declining years even though he won only one in 14 years with Indianapolis while he was in his prime. (I admire your ability to dream.)

Me? Give me a free agent chase of a great pass rusher. Give me a trade-up for Robert Griffin III or the selection of whatever rookie QB the personnel department gets most comfortable with. Give me the signing of 27 year-old Matt Flynn even. Get me some more improving and building for the long haul. Get me the short-term pain in exchange for the long-term gain.

I know I'm in the minority. I am like a salmon swimming upstream and the Miami plan and the Miami fans are big brown bears waiting in the middle of the flow to swallow me because of my opinion.

That's fine. Let's talk in two or three years when we're right back where we started and you're screaming for a young QB and a new coach and a new GM -- again.


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I will although give everybody some out of the box thinking here, why not Texans Center Chris Myers?? Everybody forget that Mike Pouncey was considered an ELITE LG at the Univ. of Fla. and only played Center after his twin Marquis skipped his Sr. year??

Posted by: fin4life | February 06, 2012 at 01:25 PM

I presonally wouldn't want to move Pouncey out from center. He's exceeded my expectations. The best Center we've had since Stephenson in my opinion.

Having said that though, Chris Myers is thinking outside the box. Pouncey has proven he can handle the NFL and IS a LG.

The kicker and a step towards correcting SpOrano's wierd strategy for assembling an O-line, Cognito DID always play RIGHT GUARD. That is, until SpOrano got so hell bent on flip flopping guys from the natural spots.

I think the big picture really is getting the line solidified with legitimate starter types(ie not Colombo or an aging Carey).

My point, get us one more legitimate starter and the LINE will just about "Be There". Regardless of how you mix and match them(the SpOrano factor aside of course).


I'm totally with you and have been saying this all along. I love Manning. He is great but who's to say how he holds up. Miami needs a long term solution and not a short term fix at the position. Manning has maybe 2-3 seasons left and that isn't going to be the GREAT Manning we all want.

Flynn - If Philbin vouches for Flynn a player he has seen every practice of his career, every scrimmage, every 7 on 7, OTA and game then I am all for it.

Football is a young man's game, always has been. I'd rather have a young, mobile QB with what seems to be a ton of potential playing for Philbin then a QB with a HUGE injury risk who is nearing his end.

DD, I kinda feel for Ireland here. He wasn't the person who put this team in this position (there are past GMs who we can lay that blame to). But Ireland's JOB rests on fixing this decade plus long issue. And there's no "perfect" choice here. If we were drafting first, then it's a no brainer. But from where we draft, and the risks related to each option, this is really a tough spot for a GM to be in.

Doesn't mean I won't roast him for making the wrong choice. But I'm glad it's his name on the dotted line and not mine. I know what I'd do, I'm just not sure it will accomplish what I expected it to.

Our future rests on this decision.

cyrusgrey45 - you wouldn't have to give any picks for Flynn....he's an unrestricted FA. He'll only cost money. It's not my money, so I could care less....plus, these contracts are structured so that only about 1/3 of these big contracts are "guaranteed". Really, there's very little risk monetarily or otherwise.

The scariest part of Armando's column is that he mentions Philbin will get a honeymoon period to adjust. If he goes 4-12 this year, everyone will say "well, he's just a rookie coach with a new offense AND a new defense, so it will take time to learn." Then the following year we go 8-8 and everyone thinks the hump is within reach. Then we make it to 10-6 and sneak in as a wild card, and lose the first round. "oh, so next year is our year." Mreanwhile, it's 2016, and Joe Philbin still hasn't won anything, and Ross will undoubtedly give him a bonus and an extension. This is a very likely scenario that keeps the Phins in mediocrity for the next decade.

Ross sealed the Dolphins fate when he chose Jeff Irescum over Jeff Fisher. IDIOT!

Have any of you ever had a recurring nightmare? Have you had that same nightmare more than 1000 times? Me neither.

But reading DC day in and day out endlessly repeat himself about the QB situation is one scary recurring nightmare.

Unreal, really unreal he can continue with his mad obsession.

Guys Tell me one player that helped "GROOM" another player to take over his job?, It's almost laughable.COME ON MAN
He doesn't need to groom him just draft a QB for when he finishes. Same Happened with Favre and Rodgers they don't even need to like each other or get along haha i don't care about grooming

I must add, it boggles my mind how so many respond to him as though it was the first time anyone brought the subject up.

Maybe its something in the water?

LOL At your Post Odin, Sporono could'nt put together a front line for his tenure here, Just glad he's with the JETS, Also look for them to pick a FG kicker this year in the 1st round.

Stephen Ross, the WORST owner in pro sports!

Maybe there is some genius in what Ross/Ireland/Philbin are doing with this Peyton Manning conundrum.

Just maybe they appear to be going all in on Peyton, but they really want RG3. Problem is Shannahan wants him as well...but is intrigued by thoughts of Manning in a Redskins uniform.

Then the trade happens...Shannahan feels stymied and offers Miami their #4 pick for the rights to Manning and we agree.

Now we get RG3 with #4 and draft Blackmon with #8 and all is well in South Florida!

I rather sign a good FA RT, than sign Peyton Manning.

Stroker, how about this (I know it's a totally far out concept)?

1) Don't read any post I make (very easy, look at the name of the poster, and move on if you see mine attached to a post). I promise, you won't hurt my feelings.

2) Why don't YOU post your opinion of the blog, instead of commenting on some other poster? What do YOU think about the concept of getting Manning? Maybe YOU have a better idea. We'd sure like to hear it. Then we can debate your opinions vs. mine vs. others posters vs. Mando's (see how that works?).

Pretty easy, it's called blog interaction. If you don't like to interact, then wouldn't you be happier somewhere else?

I think we should just call up Indy and swap Dansby for Luck...then trade our 1st rnd and 2nd rnd picks to Denver for Tebow and move him to defense....maybe surprise some folks now and again by having him play in the wildcat or at TE. We could also bring in Manning and just have him share snaps with Luck...maybe have Manning play the 1st half and Luck play the 2nd half.

We should also trade Brian Harline for a 1st and 2nd round pick to make up for those picks we traded for Denver....and then move up to take Blackmon. We should also do whatever it takes to land Drew Brees in FA just incase Manning and Luck don't work out. We could probably also work out a trade for Colston (even though he's a FA, I think we should make a trade....only seems fair).

Lastly, I think we should give up a couple picks next year and make a trade for Mallett....I mean, c'mon we need someone to hold the clipboard for Luck, Manning, and Brees.

FP4FG's...I'm not saying that Manning is grooming anyone. I'm saying the franchise is...The young quarterback is in the system. This doesn't mean he and Manning need to share a bunk, or do buddy things. What it means is that we start drafting players that will fit into the program. Philbin said he wants a developmental style of franchise..Well this is the perfect opportunity for a starting point. Also..This isn't a case of a 30 year old Peyton Manning. He knows his football life is limited. That time isn't going to stop for him. I'm also sure that in any contract negotiaitions..The team will make sure to be clear about their plans as far as a future quarterback..Mannings replacement. If he has a problem with that, or we meet any reistance during the negotiation process..Perhaps we look elsewhere for the answer. Manning has to understand this.

@MANDO: Young Shula needs young Marino.
I said it before and I say it now, no to manning. As much as I love manning, he is done. If they don't go after Flynn as a first choice, then the new coach must beleive he is not that good.

Espn reveals that "source close to Manning" reported Peyton is "OPEN" to an incentives based contract with "very little" guarranteed money. If so, I would say yes to Peyton, but still would not forego drafting a qb no further back than 2nd rd.

Peyton or not, we still need to go at least 2nd rd with a qb. Still I say we must at least make a play for RG3 whether we get Peyton/Flynn or not. IMO, this kid can become just that special in the nfl.

Ross has made the Dolphins the laughingstock of the league. i wouldnt mind at all if he moved the Dolphin disaster to LA.


that's it.
then let the penis with glaxxes f up the draft.


Not "groom". A better way to put it is "sit, watch, and learn"


I don't not like the term "groom." When I think of that word I think of combing your hair, flossing, dental care, shaving, etc. NOT QUARTERBACKS!!!

There are better words and you should start using them! THANK YOU!!!

Anthony, the Dolphins were the laughingstock long before Ross became the Owner. He didn't ok the decision to take Culpepper over Brees. Or NOT to draft Brees in the first place.

Ross just hasn't really helped matters (though if he gets a franchise QB, he'll have done wonders).

Ross will be buying boatloads of his own tickets next year again. LOL

need a qb.

we have ALOT of clueless fans saying they wouldn't give up much for Flynn. NEWS FLASH: He's a free agent big risk is he'l be asking for 10 mill a year and yes he isn't worth that

The thought process that Peyton would play again if his doctors told him he could become a quadriplegic from another hit are ridiculous. Or for that matter that his overly involved family wouldn't intervene. Manning's agent Ton Condon says he has it from Peyton's doctors that the injury is healed and they are waiting for him to regain complete sensation in the nerve endings which are causing him discomfort not because he can't throw but because he hasn't regained complete sensation which must be awkward when trying to even grip the ball.

They say this takes time and without going into specifics I had a similar injury in my hand after an accident and it took me sometime to regain complete feeling so understand a little of what there explaining. I think the Colts if you analyze the staff they've put together are looking to go with a new more modern approach and good for them because Luck fits the bill and he can throw like Manning in his prime and run like Tebow when needed as well, plain and simple.

It's a change in philosophy towards the direction of the game and he doesn't fit that for Irsay and his Colts doesn't however mean he can't play!


Unlike you I come here to read a new thought or perspective. If I don't have one, I don't fill the blog all day long telling people that snow is cold.

I single you out because I am telling you your obsession is beyond belief. For so many months now you are on here rambling endlessly the very same points you have already made thousands of times as though you are presenting something new.

Don't you get sick of yourself? I mean, really.

Matt Flynn is the best option for Our franchise.We're a middle of the road team.The veteran playmakers We now have on both sides of the ball will be complemented by Flynn's plug-n-play ability.Peyton Manning is as fragile as Chad Penninton.Don't get me wrong about chad henne I know he's a decent back-up qb.Let's just allow him to do it eslewhere.
The patsies three SB wins are tainted and tarnished,CHEATERS!

Armando! What the hell! I finally agree with you on something. 100 per cent. But here is another reason. If Manning comes here to Miami,, doesn't our newly anointed coach all of a sudden have to have a "Manning offense"? What happens when he leaves? Look at the Colts this year. Never got it going on offense because Manning wasn't there. I say get Flynn and draft a second tier quarterback (maybe Tannenhil or Folk) and let coach Philbin call his game. Also, draft Blackmon, and use free agency to solidify the right side of the line on offense. GO MANDOLIN!

Just glad he's with the JETS, Also look for them to pick a FG kicker this year in the 1st round.

Posted by: FP4FGs. | February 06, 2012 at 01:52 PM

You go ahead and laugh, but this is going to work out for us.

Right now, SpOrano is trying to talk the jets into giving a us a 1st round round pick, Revis and Bart Scott for Dan Carpenter, Colombo and a 7th RD. pick.

He figures getting Henne on the cheap wiil MORE than make up for trading away the pick!



I have a question. What on earth does a guy like me have to do to make your "brown donkey brigade" squad?

Im beginning to feel like Jethro here guy, 6yrs in the sixth grade. Im far too big for my desk already! LOL

I rather sign a good FA RT, than sign Peyton Manning.
Posted by: Dolfdan13 | February 06, 2012 at 01:56 PM


By the way, someone said take Weeden in the 3rd round. I doubt he's around that long. He was the best QB at the Senior Bowl (in every report I've seen) and if past is prologue, then these QBs will be snatched up very quickly, probably before their "predicted" draft position worth.

Ok, So I think it was DC who stated Manning is as big of a risk as Flynn. I agree with that wholeheartedly. the wildcard is we have not heard what Philbin thinks of Flynn. I will take his word over anyone... Hopefully we hear that soon.

Manning is a hurt EPIC QB... who knows if he will get healthy.

Flynn is a 7th round pick for a reason, showing glimmers of greatness.

No guarantee with either.

And just to stir the pot. I agree partially with what moustache man said. AS YOU ALL KNOW.

I am really interested to hear what Philbin has to say about Henne... If we hear it, I bet you all a nickle he will have interest on keeping him here if possible. Problem is $$.

AND NO, I DO NOT want Henne to stay here, because I think the fan base gave up on him and for the most part hates him.


Miami, Fla. The Miami Dolphins have officially filed papers for transfer to the Arena League where they think they might be competitive.

Groom is a terrible word that is about hair, teeth, deodorant, etc. Use the word 'prepare' instead. THANK YOU!!!

we have ALOT of clueless fans saying they wouldn't give up much for Flynn. NEWS FLASH: He's a free agent big risk is he'l be asking for 10 mill a year and yes he isn't worth that
Posted by: jordan | February 06, 2012 at 02:01 PM


YOu have to look at more than the contract amount as a whole. In the NFL, contracts aren't guaranteed. Generally, in a large contract, roughly 1/3 is guaranteed and is usually paid up front. From there, there are generally roster bonuses.....if a team decides a guy isn't working out, they can cut him lose with little financial impact to the team other than the loss of that upfront money.

From a longterm standpoint, there is little risk as theyse contracts are always structured with an out.

For example, while Kolb's contract was an astroniomical $65M, his guarantee was only for $20, which was paid. They can cut him anytime before March 17th and owe him nothing more and would have no impact on the AZ salary cap. If they give him his signing bonus, they're only on the hook for whatever his salary is this year....after the guarantee, these things are pretty much year to year.

dc. lets say ireland moves back a few 15-16 and gets another 2nd. use it on de and weeden.if not, use the 2 on weeden.

FA RT = Free Agent Right Tackle. But Yeah, A FART would play better than Colombo.

If Henne doesnt come back who are we gonna have to boo?

Flynn has put up big numbers in meaningless games. Just as Marshall has done in the glorified scrimmage game called "the pro bowl".

Marshall's yet to prove he can be "clutch in clutch situations". Leads me to wonder the same about Flynn. It could lead to lots of trouble to bank $10 million a year on that.

We already have a qb that can win meaningless games against meaningless teams. His name his Matt Moore. We need an assassin, we need an Eli-te qb.



Not only will I draft a FG kicker in the 1st round, I plan on trading up into the top 5 to get my guy! So I'll be sending this years and the next 2 years 1st rounders, as well as this years and next's 2nd's, along with Revis and Scott, to get the kicker I need to run my offense.

QB? Who needs a stinkin' QB! We did fine in Miami without one the whole time I was there!

Guys Tell me one player that helped "GROOM" another player to take over his job?, It's almost laughable.COME ON MAN.

FP4FGs. | February 06, 2012 at 01:46 PM

It didn't work with Montana/Young (Montana actually said he would NOT attend a 90 S.B. reunion if Young his back up at the time was there)

It didn't work with Favre/Rodgers (Favre took a swipe at Rodgers last year when after the Title Favre asked why it took him so long with those WR's)

To name just TWO that jump out at you and don't forget that Archie Manning already opened his yap and said he thought Luck and Peyton could not coexist given their competitive natures

IF...Manning's nerve in his tricep is reducing his strength by up to 40% as Mando claims...then it will be very obvious to all when Peyton conducts his workouts for the Fins brass.

Ireland: Hey Peyton, please do a 3 step drop-back and zip a 20 yd out route to Brandon.

Peyton: Sure thing...hey Brandon your right he does kinds smell a little.

Ireland: Ready when you are!

Peyton: Set, blue..red13...blue..red13 hike!

Ireland: No audibles on the line...just toss the 20 yd out to Marshall.

Peyton: set, down hike....OUCH!

Ireland: Peyton, you ok? sounded pretty bad.

Peyton: I need to ice it and come back tomorrow.

Marshall: what the fvck just happened? where the heck is Peyton going? where the fvck is my FRANCHISE QB!!!

Ireland: Hey Philbin, get Flynn on the horn and tell him to hop the next flight to Miami.


Funny, because EVERY post I've ever seen about you were about me. So, how about taking your own advice? You answered your own question too. People interact with me (though to you all I talk about is QB). Obviously they're interested. Only thing I see you interested in, is me.

So, if you REALLY want to get some "perspective", then bring up some topic of discussion YOU want to hear about. Maybe it'll be lively and improve the blog. But, I think that's not the case. I think you're just a regular, run-of-the-mill troll. And for whatever reason, I've got your troll senses all worked up.

Again, if you're not a troll, but a REAL poster, then I've got a perfect solution for you: DON'T READ MY POSTS. Easy. Solves all your problems.

See how no one responds to you? It's because you set off everyone's "troll" alert. You're using a rip-off name of another poster, and all you ever do is comment on that poster (who's name you've ripped). Other REAL posters, who find my posts uneducational or even repetitive, don't need to rip my name as theirs, then post invective about me, they just ignore me.

Am I THAT important to you, that you CAN'T ignore me? Then, dude, that's YOUR problem, not mine, not anyone else on here.

Before you ask me if I have a life, GET A LIFE YOURSELF!!!

In KY's perfect world the Redskins sign Manning, the Browns sign Flynn and we sign Nicks in free agency. Since the Redskins and Brown addressed qb in free agency the dolphins can now trad up with the browns for less compensation that it would take with the rams and get RGIII


Thanks for the posts to me the past couple of days. It's always nice to hear from Fellow Fin Fans.

Having siad that, You don't have to explain the Grooming Concept. No Great QB's try to help the next guy take their job. But, this isn't really what you were saying.

Just having a younger/inexperienced guy working around a Great, Like Peyton helps out......a LOT!

Like Flynn being around Rodgers all the time. Rodgers wasn't trying to help Flynn take his job away. But, I'll bet Flynn learned a lot just being around him, watching, watching him prepare, watching him execute, etc, etc.

Most of us knew what you meant. Nice post BTW.

Fin4Life, Soooo You Agree on this?

I rather sign a good FA RT, than sign Peyton Manning.

Dolfdan13 | February 06, 2012 at 01:56 PM


AMA do is of course right.

when a franchise acquires poor talent there needs to be a cost in losing years while the talent is replaced. If it isn't replaced successfully then the losing continues until it is. There is no short cut.

the best franchises get that talent in place, they have ten years of success during which they draft the best on the board so when the pro bowlers have retired they have another set ready to go. They give themselves time to replace talent. Or get LUCKy.

There is no short cut around his formula but the better you draft the quicker success, obviously, comes. And it starts at QB.

Who needs a QB?

odin, favre always showed up a week before the opener. not much to learn from there.lol

2watt, that's a more realistic expectation of where Weeden will go (though who knows, maybe he goes end of the 1st).

I just doubt he stays around until the 3rd.

Like Poizen said, this is between Ireland and Philbin. It's their problem. They've got to make not just A choice, but the RIGHT choice.

Fin4Life, Soooo You Agree on this?

FP4FGs. | February 06, 2012 at 02:12 PM


rogers was a 1st rd. pix for a reason.

I think luck and RG3 are overrated and it will take many years for them to develop

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