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Ricky Williams retires and we think his value was ....

Going to keep it simple this morning ...

Ricky Williams retired Tuesday. He played seven seasons with the Dolphins and gained 6,426 yards in that time. He sat out 2004 in semi-retirement, sat out 2006 while suspended, and played only a couple of snaps in 2007 because of injury.

In those years, the Dolphins went to the playoffs once -- in 2008 when Williams was a reserve.

The Dolphins paid a steep price for that body of work. They gave up a first-round pick in 2002, a first-round pick in 2003, a fourth-rounder in 2002 and a fourth-rounder in 2003. They got a 2003 fourth-rounder back along with Williams.

Simple questions:

Did the Dolphins get value for their draft picks?

If you had to do the trade again, would you make it?

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wolfman13 | February 08, 2012 at 02:03 PM

The question which was put out there by Kurt Warner was given how inconsistent Eli was for a good 5 Seasons of his 8 year career do you see him Hall worthy without keeping the consistency he finally displays this year all the way through and the answer is I believe he gets in but not 1st ballot he needs to do it now for the rest of his career (not win S.B.'s but play consistent) It's a valid question and the Tebow talk was about him spending loads of time now with Lebron James helping repair his image with Tebow Nation (there apparently is such a thing)

What a stupid question. So if the best QB in the league has regained all his health, do we want him?

NH, 5 yes, 0 no, 1 HELLYESGODDAMNIT!

The best QB in the league is Tom Brady....DUHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Warner accusing Eli of being inconsistent, that's rich. Eli was a lot more consistent than Warner during his career, that's for sure. 8 straight road victories and still nit picking his game. Unbelievable.

Por supuesto, si Peyton Manning es saludable debe firmarlo! Miami ama superestrellas y sería muy popular entre todos los cubanos, en especial a nuestras mujeres que son mucho más bonitas que las mujeres americanas feas!

So if we somehow land Peyton and he agrees to learn the new west coast offense playbook, how will the relationship between Philbin, Sherman & Manning play out?

I can see turmoil when Peyton starts calling audibles on the line and nixing Sherman's play calling abilities.

Just saying...it could be messy.

fin4life - believe me, I know all about Tebow Nation/Tebow Mania. Living here in NM it's 1.) Denver Broncos; 2.) Dallas Cowboys; and 3.) AZ Cardinals pretty much 24 & 7. Many in the national media and particularly in the local media here talk about Tebow as if he's already arrived....he's the next great NFL QB....like he's a shoe in for the HOF already. It's amazing really.

In RE to Eli and HOF....my point was really that these media types gush over a guy like Tebow (who's done zip) and continue to discount Eli, even with this latest SB win. It's really quite ironic.

He definitely has his up and down moments....and frankly, I don't think that's going to really change. I think he's always going to be one of those guys that just "throws one up there" on occasion, leaving people to say WTF. That said, when it counts, he comes through and comes through big. Not just this season, he's been doing it for awhile now.

I don't know that he's a 1st ballot guy or not and I would agree that he would have to continue to show more consistency throughout his remaining seasons to get there (or win another ring or two), but I have little doubt that he'll be in the HOF one day (barring some sort of insane melt down). To my knowledge, there is only one QB with 2 SB wins or more that isn't in the HOF, and that would be Plunkett.

So if we somehow land Peyton and he agrees to learn the new west coast offense playbook, how will the relationship between Philbin, Sherman & Manning play out?

I can see turmoil when Peyton starts calling audibles on the line and nixing Sherman's play calling abilities.

Just saying...it could be messy.

Posted by: NHFINSFAN | February 08, 2012 at 02:22 PM

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That's been one of my concerns as well, considering that P Manning hasn't really had a coach telling him what to do since Dungy left. One could argue that even while Dungy was there....at least for the later years, P Manning was simply allowed to do whatever he wanted to do. You also have to consider that Philbin being a rookie HC isn't going to have the same clout in the locker room if someone like P Manning is there. Seems like a recipe that could get a little sticky. This is one of the reasons that a lot of west coast media is saying "no way" to San Fran.....Harbaugh is a my way or the highway, high intensity HC and Manning has never had such a coach.

I also think that's just one of the things Irsay was alluding too when he mentioned that Manning has himself created a whole lot of "eggshells" for people to walk on around there.

Mark,

Warner is a 2 time NFL MVP and be fair he had a bad throwing hand injury which required I believe 4 surgeries which never fully heals while playing behind a horrific OL in St Louis. He wasn't a good fit given his game in NY but saw Eli alot up close and personal and said it was some of the worst QB play he ever saw prompting him to praise the player he now is but simply saying he has to do it more consistently.

After sitting a year in Arz. and actually getting another hand surgery with a full year to heal he came out gang busters and put together 3 Great yrs. to close his career. He doesn't have more S.B. rings in St Louis because Vermeil retired and Martz forgot M.Faulk was on his team in the 01 S.B. when the rush was killing Warner. He also isn't the 1st in History to win as a QB for 2 different teams because of an incredible catch by Santonio Holmes and some gritty passes from Big Ben with under 2:00 minutes holding a 4 point lead.

wolf what was Eli's record his first year?

what was tebow's?

he's played on god darned year for krist's sake moron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what's he done is he won 9 straight and totally turned team raound and wen to playoffs as essentially ar ookie who was given no snaps in pracitce

Mark, I saw that. Ridiculous. Here's Warner, by no means a first ballot HOF'er. By no means one of the best that ever lived. Just an above average player, yes, deserving of the HOF, but kind of a lower-tier HOF'er to me, trying to discredit Eli. Because when he played with him Eli had a horrible year.

REALLY? First, shows the guy has no class whatsoever. Second, I'm so SICK of these damned Jesus freaks not practicing what they preach (oh, I don't know, turn the other cheek, be compassionate, love thy neighbor). Is Warner on the HOF committee? Does he get a vote? If not, then SHUT THE EFFE UP, who CARES what you think? Wasn't Warner a BACKUP to Eli when he was on the Giants? So, the Coaches didn't believe he was good enough to start, should WARNER not get into the HOF for that? Maybe, if you listen to him.

Everyday I hear these idiot athletes, I appreciate Barry Sanders more and more. The guy played the game at a high level, retired, and WALKED AWAY. You don't hear a peep out of him. I wish other athletes would take his cue, THAT'S how to be a CLASS ACT!

wolf please go back to brooklyn

fin4life, so basically you're saying Eli is clutch in the Post-Season (when it counts) and Warner needs to remind everyone of all the excuses he's not.

Got it!

DC--the Evangelical crowd being hypocrites?!? I'm SHOCKED you would even suggest something like that!

Next thing you'll be telling me Newt Gingrich was banging a young intern at exactly the same time he was indignantly moralizing about Clinton doing it.

Oh, wait...

I just came in from outside and saw two giant chemtrails in the sky.They have been up there for over an hour dripping down and have now gotten fatter and more dispersed looking,but are definitely are not quick disappearing contrails.

Hey snoopy - Tebow didn't win 9 straight.....yeah, Tebow just wins....except when he doesn't. They went to the playoffs with an 8-8 record because that's how bad that division is. Every single one of Tebow's wins was about 10% Tebow, 70% defense and Sp teams, and 20% luck.

I also love how the Tebow Maniacs give Tebow the credit for the miraculous wins.....but when they lose, it's everyone else's fault....even though Tebow could only connect for 35% of his passes or whatever.

Laughable....and you call me a moron.

We should pull out all the stops to get Tebow.

Also, Warner had a crap Season too (2002 before he broke his hand). He was going nowhere quick. So should he not be in the HOF because he had a bad Season? Please.

Creo que los delfines deben disparar Philbin y contratar a alguien que hará las delicias de los cubanos de Miami. Este hombre es Mario Cristóbal de La Universidad Internacional de Florida! Los Delfines de Miami nunca va a ganar otro Super Bowl hasta que tienen un entrenador cubano que ellos!

My first choice would be a trade up for RG3, but I hate to give up all those draft picks. Still, for RG3- it would be worth it. We'd be set at QB for over a decade.

My second choice:

"That's why I think the most prudent course of action is to go for Peyton or Flynn, keep Matt Moore as insurance, and draft Tannehill. He has a history in Sherman's offense and that is one of the reasons he is ranked as he is. It would also be great to pair him with a mentor like Peyton Manning."

Posted by: LanceInIowa | February 08, 2012 at 09:35 AM

Manning/Flynn plus Tannehill or Weeden in the 2nd Rd would be a smart move. We'd still have a 1st rd pick to add an elite pass rusher.

Peyton already knows the west coast offense. He knows every offense ever created--and some not yet created--and is, by a very wide margin, the greatest football player ever to wear a uniform.

Peyton was the first to go over 48 TDs and totally dominate games. Brady copied him a year later.

finsfan72 - my only problem with Weeden in that scenario is his age. As it is, Weeden has probably no more than a 6-8 year career ahead of him....he sits behind Manning for 3 and that's pretty much half his career....we would ultimately still be searching for a long term solution.

DC, exactly. What Warner isn't factoring is that he was older when he started his NFL career. Eli was a kid. He's prone to having his growing pains. And Warner as a vet had some of the most horrible qb play I've ever seen. Eli has been nails. When you play road playoff games you are playing against teams that have had better seasons and Eli has derailed then time and time again. He Signor handwriting turned this team from imploding to super bowl champions.

Warner lost two big ones, I remember him throwing pic after pic in those games. Eli has been dam near perfect in his two games including two of the most clutch plays in their history. To be nitpicking flaws in his games is laughable. Eli has been a dog twice in the big one and won both. He's the most clutch qb in super bowl history. There, I said it!

Present me another qbs super bowl resume and explain how it is better? Montana was never a dog in a bowl. Bradshaw never had to carry a team. Ben and Brady both lost. Anyone?? Bueller? Bueller???

griffin would be best move. manning wont ever be healthy so flynn second best. and tannehill is awful

Anyone who suggests that Eli is better than his brother has no credibility and should be banned from this board. Beyond the obvious (what they do on the field), Eli had the fortune of going to the New York Football Giants, an A+ organization that was good long before Eli and is always in the hunt, almost every year, for 30 years. Whereas Peyton went to the hapless Colts, who were and are nothing both before and after Peyton. Peyton got his Super Bowl single handedly.

I LIKE CHICKENS. THEY FUNNY.

wolf please go back to brooklyn

Posted by: Snoop Dog | February 08, 2012 at 02:34 PM

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Uhhhhh........ok.........considering I've never been to Brooklyn, it would be difficult to go back to Brooklyn.

RGIII? What's Vick won?

Anyone who suggests that Eli is better than his brother has no credibility and should be banned from this board. Beyond the obvious (what they do on the field), Eli had the fortune of going to the New York Football Giants, an A+ organization that was good long before Eli and is always in the hunt, almost every year, for 30 years. Whereas Peyton went to the hapless Colts, who were and are nothing both before and after Peyton. Peyton got his Super Bowl single handedly.

Posted by: Katy Perry | February 08, 2012 at 02:46 PM

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I haven't seen anyone say this.

Two 1sts and 2 4ths are obviously a very steep price to pay for any rb, not just Ricky Williams. I couldnt say the Dolphins in general got thier money's worth out of Ricky, but, Dave Wannstadt sure did.

So much so, that it forced Williams into retirement.

Anyway, if you're going to give up as many as TWO 1ST RD'ERS for any position player, he had better be be an ELITE caliber QB. I would definitely say yes to giving up the exact same ransom as we did for Ricky, for RG3!

Katy Perry - Just because RGIII is black and can run does not mean his M Vick.....or V Young.....or P White.....or C Newton.

You ever watch RGIII.....ever look at his stats.....anything? You don't throw for 4,000 yards being "M Vick". In fact, if you actually look at scouting reports, professional scouts compare his style of play to S Young more than anything.

This was the same crap last year when everyone wanted to compare Newton to M Vick.......get over it people, yes, they're BLACK....it doesn't mean they're all M Vick.

finsfan72 - my only problem with Weeden in that scenario is his age. As it is, Weeden has probably no more than a 6-8 year career ahead of him....he sits behind Manning for 3 and that's pretty much half his career....we would ultimately still be searching for a long term solution.

Posted by: wolfman13 | February 08, 2012 at 02:44 PM


I think Manning for 3 years, followed by a ready-to-roll Weeden for 5 years is not a bad 8 year plan. Of course in year 5, it'd be time to draft and start grooming another QB. It IS a never ending cycle.

I would prefer Tannehill to Weeden, though.

Peyton got his Super Bowl single handedly.

Posted by: Katy Perry | February 08, 2012 at 02:46 PM

It was Tony Dungy shoring up the defense that got Peyton to the big dance.

both suck, least weeden will be decent in the league. tannehill has no future , ive seen that guy so many times in big 12 games last year. hes awful, so is sherman

Peyton got his Super Bowl single handedly.

Posted by: Katy Perry | February 08, 2012 at 02:46 PM

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Nobody does it "single handedly." Football is a team sport....the QB is extremely important, but you still have to have a team. As I recall, Indy had a very balanced team all the way around the year they won the SB. Good defense, good lines, good WRs/TEs, solid running attack, and yes P Manning at the helm.

If it could be done single handedly, Danny would have about 10 SB wins at least.

Ok.....off to the zoo now. Kiddo is well fed and bored with his Thomas the Train video.

DC,

Warner NEVER attacked Eli, pay close attention NEVER ATTACKED him or belittled his game. He was asked as were a host on ESPN Round table whether he's a 1st ballot guy and everybody to a man said, not yet. Nobody said NO or NEVER but not yet. You as a Dolphins fan now better than anybody that without Marino Miami was a 4-12 or worse team alot like this years Colts even though I wonder if some of it wasn't by design in Indy (SUCK FO LUCK)

The argument is whether Eli now overtakes Peyton as the better QB and here is were I find the entire argument STUPID! No way and he's got boatloads of TD's and Yds. to throw for before he breaths that air. Manning is in the class of Marino at QB and as much as you want to start trumpeting the Eli horn I don't see him in their class just yet.

Even if he were to stay consistent and win another one I don't know if he gets there but I get your line of thinking hook line and sinker. By your account Troy Aikman is a GOD next to a punk like Marino full of excuses who NEVER won a DAMN THING! Before you crap on Warner he IS the only QB to ever QB two teams to a S.B. so I think his two cents while being respectful is something he's as entitled to as anybody else when analyzing the fact Trent Dilfer is now the host of NFL Primetime, ohh excuse me again the great S.B. winning QB Trent Dilfer!

Woow this blog sucks sometimes. Didnt even post my last post. Armando, do you have me censored? LOL

Katy Perry,

The Colts have always been a first class organizaation. Even back to thier days in Baltimore. They nearly seemlessly moved from Johnny Unitas to Bert Jones. Just was unfortunate This was the heydey of the steel curtain era.

They had Elway in thier sights and he refused to play for them. Then 1st overall pick Jeff George turned bust. No one saw that coming. Had Elway played for the Colts there's great possibilty they get at least one sb win before Peyton.

Colts never been a terrible organization, maybe a little unlucky prior to Peyton, but never terrible. So Im not buying your Peyton went to a terrible organization theory on Eli vs Peyton.

1. Eli became Eli-te 4yrs ago with the game winning drive against the Pats.

2. Took 4 more years years for Eli to get back to the big dance because the Giants have been one of the most injury prone teams in the league. Not to mention the player turnover over those years. Plaxico shooting himself didnt help either.

3. The Giants were the healthiest theyve been since the last time Eli-te lead them to the sb. Exact same results. Eli-te leads another game winning 4th qtr drive(38yder the key) for duplicate sb victory over the "AGAIN" favored Pats!

Eli's been Eli-te since his game winning drive over the Pats 4yrs ago. It isnt that Eli is so much "up and down" the entire Giants team pretty much plays that way during the course of a season. Injuries and roster turnovers have had just as much to do with it.

When the Giants have been reasonably healthy and not shooting themselves in the foot with costly turnovers and penalties. Eli Manning has nearly always been a beast!

Even Brady and any of the other Elite qb's dont look very elite Under some of the same conditions that didnt make Eli look elite. You can choose to call a zebra white and ignore his black stripes. Or you can choose to call him black and ignore his white base. What we choose to do doesnt make it right.

A zebra will still be white with black stripes. Or black with HUGE white stripes. LOL

This is board is crazy.....Ricky was a complete waste. He quit on his team, couldn't get sober, and was never focused on football. Whenever people talk about Ricky it will always be "what could have been". What could have he been if he was focused, if he was sober, if he didn't quit, and if he played with passion like Emmitt Smith. You guys blame Wannested.....come on.....they ran Emmitt more than they ever ran Ricky and he never quit. I put Ricky right up there with Dimitrius Underwood.

When the Giants have been reasonably healthy and not shooting themselves in the foot with costly turnovers and penalties. Eli Manning has nearly always been a beast!

Yesterday's Gone | February 08, 2012 at 03:37 PM

In 09 I thought this way en route to their 10-1 record they had gone to Arz. and Pitt. respectfully and handed them their collective butts both those teams being the S.B. Reps. that year. The funny thing was that in that time span was when Coughlin had benched Plexico because of the distractions in his money dispute with Management that year.

Then Burress shoots himself and the team sputters to 12-4 with the Eagles running them out of Giants Stadium in the Playoffs. If you remember that game the Eagles put 8 and even 9 in the box daring Eli to beat them with Domonique Hixon, Kevin Boss and Manningham and he threw I believe 4 picks.

Afterward he really tailed off finally bottoming out last season with over 30 picks before coming out gang busters this year and remember the Giants right now have easily one of the top 3 WR Corps. in the game. So his rise this Season is in a way connected to this group finally growing up and coming together but again I admitt this yr. he made the leap and became ELITE I hope he can sustain it is all.

Mando arent you in the slightest bit embarrassed?The final (maybe) in the long list of spite-filled articles on RW. Whats the matter was Ricky not nice to the poor little reporter boy? Get it in perspective. In the grand scheme of things i.e. professional sports, RW was a giant (love him or hate him). And you are.......well nothing really.

Fin4,

I will give Eli a pass on some his huge amount of picks simply because the Giants havent exactly been a great pass protect oline during Eli's time here. His brother Peyton has enjoyed far superior pass protect with the Colts.

Giants oline has always been better known as a smash mouth bunch rather than pass protect police. Peyton's oline was the total opposite. Great at pass protecting but challenge at smash mouth run blocking.

Really Mando? Is that all you have to say about Ricky? What a cryin shame but then again I really shouldn't be surprised. I will no longer hold back on my comments and observations of your comments and observations. So if a person makes a mistake, and gosh knows we all do, are we supposed to be judged by them for all of our lives after we have felt remorse and apologized and paid whatever penalties? You must consider yourself a saint I bet. You would be the only one.

Anyway, post Marino focus was still on finding that vaunted rb and ground game we never had. Everyone and I mean everyone lost sight of the possibility of taking so long in replacing a Marino(Eli-te qb).

Emmitt Smith, statiscally the greatest rb of all time, may have never sniffed a sb championship ring without an eli-te qb like Troy Aikman. No way could the Dolphins troubles be placed squarely on the shoulders of Ricky Williams.

The braintrust we've had during Williams tenure here made ZERO effort to acquire a genuine top 10 qb let alone an eli-te one. Barry Sanders never had a great qb to play with and as great as Sanders was he never even played in a playoff game with the Lions.

NO rb is worth the ransom that was paid for Ricky Williams TWICE. Unless you already have an ELI-TE QB already on your roster. That qb better at least be a top 10 qb.

No way can you hold Ricky accountable because two talent evaluators(Ditka/Wanny) greatly overvalued the rb position. Even had Ricky not retired nor suspended for a year. Without a top qb our fate would most likely been similar.

Think about that Armando.

I didn't realize how much they gave up to get Ricky.At the time he was an elite back.However I don't know if I would have given up 2 first rounds and 2 fourth rounds picks.Although Wannesdt did try to run him in the ground.I did enjoy watching Ricky play.Wish him much successs in his retirement.

For those of you with Ricky quit-itis, it was well known Ricky was a little strange when he was still at New Orleans. Its was our management's fault for failing to read the "fine print" that came with Ricky's wash label.

First off they far overpaid for the rb position. Then 2ndly, did it on a guy with defcon 10 levels of strangeness.

Had a Ricky Williams come along at the heights of the Marino administration. I cant say with certainty how many sb's we would have won. But I do believe we make at least 5 sb appearances.

Funny how under Marino we had some of our worst running games ever. Then under Ricky some of our worst qb's ever.

I want an "ode To Wannstedt" day here. Absolutely the worst coach we ever had. No Justification for his existence here except maybe he was JJ's pimp. He destroyed the Bears, they took almost 10 years to recover. He pretty much replicated that feat here, no small task. Were still not over his reign. Pitt forced him out. however he did succeed in getting us out from under Marino..... perfect.

Ricky ran for an organization that was in decay and could never capitalize on his extraordinary talent in the form of wins. Wrong place wrong time. I think he's OK though.

YG, Marino's best running back, Czonka. When he came back after the WFL. Yes, Ricky in tandem with Czonka, along with Duper and Clayton would have been unstoppable!!!

Would you trade all of the following for Ricky Williams?

* Ted Ginn Jr. (1st round)
* Jason Allen (1st round)
* Will Poole (4th round)

I would

what about all the money we paid Ricky then he no-showed, he was supposed to pay it back, I' m sure he never did; SS

odinseye,
I have always been a fan of Ricky's. Hard, tough, fast to the hole running back. He was grossly under-used by Sparano and Henning while sharing snaps with Ronnie Brown (who I liked because of his enthusiasm, but just wasn't the runner Ricky was). I always wonder if he had been the featured back in the Satan, Camoron and Sparano years, if he could have helped their void at QWB. I think so. Their is no valid explanation at only giving him 5 - 10 touches per game when he was ready and able to take a lot more of a load. Again, he was grosslyunder-used, which is a reflection on the poor talent evaluation of our coaches and GM's for the last 6 years.

The Dolphins got hosed by the league's regressive drug testing policy.

I can understand testing for performance enhancing substances, but who in their right mind believes marijuana improved Ricky's performance?

Look, test for steroids and HGH and all that other crap, but why test for weed? What's the point, other than to play police man? Is it the NFL's job to enforce the drug laws in this country?? Leave that job to the proper authorities, and focus on keeping the game free of performance ENHANCING drugs.

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