« I'm a salmon swimming upstream on the Manning issue | Main | Ricky Williams retires and we think his value was .... »

Steep price of trading up can be worthwhile

Sometimes trading up is the right thing to do. Sometimes trading up is brilliant. Sometimes trading up helps win a Super Bowl.

Or two.

If the Dolphins were to have doubts they can fill their quarterback situation the hard way -- the right way, in my opinion -- by trading up to get Robert Griffin III for example, all they have to do for affirmation is look at what the New York Giants did in 2004 with Eli Manning.

Manning, you'll recall, was supposed to be the No. 1 overall selection of the 2004 draft. But the San Diego Chargers held that pick and the Manning clan made clear to the Chargers they didn't want to be in Southern Cal. (Who knows, maybe Eli didn't like Mexican food or something). Well, the Chargers picked Manning anyway, but only because they had a trade already executed with with the New York Giants, who had picked Phillip Rivers with the No. 4 overall pick.

Basically the Giants traded away their No. 1 pick in 2004 (Rivers), their No. 1 pick in 2005 (turned out to be Shawne Merriman), their third-round pick in 2004 (turned out to be K Nick Kaeding) and their fifth-round pick in 2005.

So two firsts, a third and a fifth for the top overall selection.

It was considered a treasure trove of picks then. Today, it is considered a wise investment for the Giants, who have won two Super Bowl titles the past four years with Manning as their quarterback.

So I turn your attention to the coming draft in April. Unless there is a major surprise, Andrew Luck will be selected with the first overall pick. The St. Louis Rams have the second pick and coach Jeff FIsher recently said his team is open to trading the pick to the highest bidder.

That pick can be used to select Griffin.

So what would it cost the Dolphins to rise from No. 8 or No. 9, depending on a coin toss, to No. 2?

A lot.

It will take at least two first round picks and probably closer to three first round picks. And it might actually take this years No. 1, next year's No. 1, the 2014 No. 1 and possibly something else like a third or fifth rounder thrown in there somewhere.

I wasn't kidding when I said a lot.

It sounds like an outrageous price to pay. It seems ludicrous that the Dolphins would pay it. But in weighing whether to pay it or not, one must balance that steep price with the idea that Griffin will likely play a decade and he may well become every bit the franchise quarterback that Eli Manning is today.

No, I'm not saying Griffin will win two Super Bowls someday. I am saying that to a club that has a conviction on Griffin, to a club that believes him to be a franchise talent, the price is worth it.

Yesterday, I told you why I don't believe Peyton Manning as a free agent is the answer in my opinion. Mostly it has a lot to do with the lack of certainty about this nerve issues but it also has a tremendous amount to do with the fact his window with his new team is two, maybe three years at best.

That is not a long-term solution to Miami's quarterback situation.

By the time Peyton is saying good-bye to the NFL, RG3 will be warming up for his primetime years. You must remember that Eli didn't win the starting job his first year in the NFL. And in his second year, he posted a 0.0 quarterback rating in a game against Baltimore. And yet, the Giants had the courage of their conviction on the kid. The stuck with him, grew with him, and now they're reaping the rewards of that long hike to the promised land.

That's how great organizations handle the quarterback issue. The Steelers, Patriots, Packers, Ravens, Falcons, Colts, Lions all trained their sites on draft picks they believed would become franchise QBs and went with their conviction on those players.

I understand Houston, Chicago and New Orleans acquired their franchise QBs differently -- through trade or free agency. But none of the players those teams acquired where over 30 much less 36. Peyton Manning will be 36 next month.

Griffin will be 22 years old next week. He can play a decade for Miami and still be many useable years younger than Peyton Manning is today.

And I get the idea that perhaps Griffin will be a bust. As Bill Parcells is fond of saying, they don't sell insurance for this stuff. But I just don't see how this kid doesn't succeed. He's got the arm. He's got the brains -- he graduated seventh in his high school class, was on the Baylor Dean's list multiple times, was on the Big 12 Commissioner's list in 2010, graduated Baylor in three years and was working on his Master's Degree this past season -- and he obviously has the athletic prowess.

It also must be said RG3 carries no personal baggage. Kid lives right, prays hard, works hard, comes from a military family and is getting married soon. He's the kind of kid you want as a son-in-law.

I do not see how RG3 misses the mark in the NFL. Does he throw off his back foot sometimes? Yes. But I hear that is what coaches are paid to correct.

RG3 will be an NFL franchise QB long after Peyton Manning is out of the league. That's only my opinion. The Dolphins have scouts. I suppose they have an opinion. General manager Jeff Ireland has Baylor connections as an alumnus of the school. I suppose he has an opinion. They should know things about the kid no one else does.

But if they don't know that sometimes you have to pay a price to buy a top prospect, all they have to do is look at the New York Giants and how they got their franchise quarterback. It was done with a draft-day trade-up that cost tons of treasure.

But that trade-up has returned tons of treasure as well in the form of Super Bowl rings.


TrackBack URL for this entry:

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Steep price of trading up can be worthwhile:


Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

HennePuke was the WORST 4th quarter QB in football. And the guy is dumber then a bunch of rocks. He didnt get benched and booed beacause he was so good! GEEZ!

I say we give away our 3 first rounders to move up select RG3, Then sign Manning to an incentive base contract. We'll have Manning for 2 years and he'll hand it off to RG3

Ohio, trying the friendly way first, since this one at least responds sometimes when I try to interact. But, as you often are, spot on amigo. Gracias.

RG3 will be a stud. Those who doubt it haven't seen him play or haven't studied up on him.

He would be worth whatever it takes to get him. Bank on it.

Sniff..... Sniff.... Whoooooyahhhhhhhhhh! Im amp now. Henne is the best QB ever!

What if Andrew Luck is another Ryan Leaf...?

If RG3 can be Pat White then surely Luck can be Leaf or Jeff George right?

Craig M, that's all I'm saying. Either way (Moore, Flynn, Manning, RG3, Tannehill, Weeden, etc.), it's going to be a risk. And I'm with you, better Ireland make that decision than me (people already hate me for my opinions and they make not a difference in the Miami Dolphins organization).

I promise to you all, right here in the open, I will try to hold my fire if Ireland makes the wrong move. I at least give him props for trying to upgrade this position.

I say like we play hopscotch with a qbs picture in each square until we narrow it down. Then trade some players for Thigpen as a backup. Cuz its a crapshoot.

Ryan Tannehill is the best prospect in the draft behind A. Luck and RGIII.
Given that Luck and RGIII appear to be out of reach, I'm surprised no one is giving this kid any consideration.

Flynn has just a handful of starts in college and two in the NFL. Not sure what we would have with him.
Manning? Three cervical vertebrae surgeries should scare the hell out of anyone.

Just sayin'.

Anyone see Miamis schedule next year? We will be nowhere near close enough to get Barkley or anyone else that's highly rated. With matt Moore and the same roster, we win 10 games. This is the one chance Ireland will have to getting a top tier qb in his tenure here. Its expensive but can pay off. Come on Jeff. Nobody including your owner will hold it against you if you roll with rg3.

There it is, posting under someone elses name. Last I checked folks asking me about Henne. This is a TEAM game...

And I mentioned, I would rather have other options than Henne. but spin it all you want to attemmpt to be funny.

Sad part is some of you are slightly to uncomfortable to post under your own name and discuss, because your maturity factor is close to none. So you then post under alternate names or copy someone elses, because your not smart enough to argue your oen point.


Great point about the timing of all this. If we bank on getting RG3 in the draft, it will probably be too late to fall back to Manning or Flynn.

Wow, that would suck! We get beat out on trading up for RG3, after passing on Manning and Flynn.

What then? Tannehill, Weeden, (GULP) Matt Moore?

RG3 = Pat White???


Craig, kingsmith brings up a point. And I know you really don't think RG3 is Pat White (you said as much in your post). But for others, let me repeat (go back and look at the history), RG3 IS NO PAT WHITE. In SO MANY WAYS. He's the Heisman friggin' winner (OVER Luck I might add). His best year, he threw for over 4,000 yards and a 72% completion %. White, 1,800, 69%. White was an option QB. RG3 more of a pocket passer. Yes, both are black. Both are mobile. Both are similar in stature. That's where the similarities end.

Mark, don't say that. If the team hears they can win 10 games with Moore, they'll draft all olinemen.

I'm glad albert mentioned the Herschel Walker trade - didn't help the Vikings all that much, but made the 90s Cowboys. Three first rounders are a high price to pay for RGIII - that could help the team for years (though the way the Fins have been drafting the past few years, it could be that they don't get the next Ted Ginn)Yesterday, GarbagePlate mentioned Brandon Weedon, who will probably be available in the 3rd round. He's got 1st round talent, but is 28. Wouldn't that be a better risk than Matt Flynn, who is 26 and has created a buzz based on...one game?

Oops, I mean if you trade up for rg3, you win the super bowl in 2012.

My name is Poizen, I'm such a douche blah blah blah. Henne my bf, I love him.

I have a fan now also, how sweet.

If Ireland grows a pair and manages to trade up in order to get RG3, then so be it, I'm behind him. Worried about our draft ability in years to come, but it at least is gutsy. I'll take gutsy over mediocre.

If Ireleand decides that the cost is too great to trade up, and take BPA in the first, and Cousins/Weeden in the 2nd, then so be it. I'm behind him. Last year's QB crop looked lame at first, but several of the rookies looked extremely promising after the season ran it's course. Might happen again. Fine with this.

The things I'm be griping about is if we spend yet another top pick on an O-lineman, ..
Or assuming one good game makes Matt Flynn a franchise QB, and we have to spend another few years to figure out that mistake before we draft a serious QB prospect ...
Or we get Manning and assume our QB problems are solved, and two years in, Manning is spent/broken, and we are still QB-less ...
Or we do nothing about QB and roll with Matt Moore ...

Poizen, sorry my man, you shouldn't have defended me. Now my troll has become your troll (@ 3:24pm). You can tell with the blah, blah, blah.
The trolls get upset when friendships destroy their master plan to rid the blog of their hated nemesis (is plural of that nemeses).

Ricky Williams retired today. He was a good dolphin. Good luck Ricky! If that loser kicker makes a kick, you might have got your ring.

JS, don't tell anyone, but I could live with Weeden too.

JPAO makes a good point. If you pass on Manning and Flynn in FA, aren't you really telegraphing your plans for a guy like RGIII in the draft. Assuming you don't get him, then what?

I like Tannehill but I need to study him more. It's a real dilemna because as I've been saying for a long time, the pass rush needs upgrading too. So many ways to go and so clear evidence which way is the right to go.....tough calls all around.

DC, I think you told everyone...
But I'll say nothing just in case ;)

You guys are stupid we also traded 2 number 1 picks for Ricky not sure if that was worth it cuz of the drug suspension. RG3 looks the part my only problem is the style of O Baylor ran where was he 3 years ago and the defenses he played against were some of the worst in college football!!

Ditto that Mark. Under-appreciated here, even with a spliff in his mouth he was the best player in a Dolphins uniform every time he stepped on the field. Wish they could have put things together to make a run at least ONE year during his tenure.

DC, slap that big boy on my mouth. It's so sweet. Love ya suga!

Poizzen, take this. AWWWWWWWWWWWW. Good Boy.


You morons are going to s hit your pants when you find out.
You'll then know what it feels like to get a urine facial from the Master.

..IMO I will support any attempt to make a move to aquire a franchise guy. The 3 most popular choices will be debated until the day we actually do something, and beyond. All 3 guys have their supporters, and their detractors..All 3 camps can make very good arguments as to why their guys makes the most sense. I sort of sit on the fence, because I like all 3 of them, and think each one of them would benifit this team..Whoever the guy is(It is possible none of them come here) I will support the idea..With the exception of one guy.

That one guy has been getting tons of attention today, and has been a lightning rod on this blog for 3 years. IMO..Again just my opinion. The best thing for this franchise, and the career of Henne is to leave, and start his career somewhere else. Fair or not...Henne will always be the whipping boy here for the failures of this team..This goes with the territory of being the guy. Every excuse in the world has been made for Henne.(I know, I was one of the guys who made them) He had more then enough opportunities to prove his value. IMO he will never be the type of quarterback that is going to win games in January, Febuary. He may win a few games, he may even get you to the playoffs. But in the most important parts of the game, when the outcome is in the balance..Henne has never been able to consistantly rise to the occasion..Just look at his 2 minute efficiency..his redzone efficiency, and his 4th quarter rating for his career..To me, this tells me everything I need to know about a quarterback..If you like 300-400 yard games, if you like more int's to TD ratio, or brilliance in between the 20's..Henne is your guy. If I'm starting a team..Henne is going to be nowhere near it.

Poizen, Take this AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. Slurp it up!

DC no biggie my friend... It makes me laugh when these clowns try and flex keyboard muscles. Insult on a blog, yet no real posting names, and they would never meet you face to face cause their scered... :)

I hear you Mando but 3 number #1s? Sorry! no way.
If the deal can get done for two # 1's OK but 3 is too far. We'll give you two #1's and a 2nd rounder. Think about it St. Louis.

Every coach this team just hired, with the exception of the OC, is less experienced than the one they replaced.

These guys are not coming in from LSU and Ala they are coming from Temple and Duquesne.

This team doesn't need a franchise QB.

IT NEEDS A SCAPEGOAT FOR 1 YEAR to cover for the lack of talent.


I could live with Weeden too. I like the kid (yeah, I know he's older but he's STILL a kid to me).

I know guys will go BALISTIC if Ireland drafts him but I think most guys will go balistic if he does anything but trades up for RGIII.

Craig, I might upset Stroker, but I actually said that yesterday too. It's another risk. Like last year. You pass on Manning, pass on Flynn, now you don't really have many moves left. If you don't get RG3 (if that's your goal), like you said, "now what?"

Ireland needs an iron-clad plan. Could we do 2-out-of-3 (like Manning/RG3, Flynn/Weeden, etc.)? Not sure with the cap space we're butting up against. There certainly is no easy answer to this problem.

DC,dont even respond to that idiot troll,everybody here knows he offers nothing but BS!Everyone here with a brain knows that you are in the top 5 of list of people here who carry yourself with respect and offer great insight on our Fins.He could easily be the poster child for the reason cousins shouldn't f$%k !!

Whatever happens, that much is assured. Half the people will be upset no matter WHAT Ireland does.

I don't envy the guy.

When the new coach uses the talent on hand and has some success the coach looks smart and keeps his job (Pete Carroll, Mike Shanahan, Jim Harbaugh). If there is no success then he has a scapegoat and gets to keep his job.

When a coach gambles everything on a QB he ends up looking like Rex Ryan.

Neither Ireland nor Philbin are here to win a SB. They're here to get paid.

This is why you morons don't make any money.


It's a REAL dilemna.....and so many ways it go wrong. Ireland's screwed whatever way he goes. Luck would have been great, Barkley would have good consolation. Everything else after that has it's question marks.

Very funny Abel! Still laughing... Nice work.

Abel Camacho, get off of DC nuts, jeez

I appreciate all the love from you guys (tear, tear). And I love you right back!

Craig, DC,
Weeden is NFL ready, and a damned fine passer. He starts immediately and you get about 5-7 years out of him. Best QB scenario? NO. But better than most.
I might take Cousins, depeneding on what happens at the combine. But Tannehill, Foles, and Lindley don't impress me as future stars. Big arms, but not much else.
And I'm not ready to count out Keenum either until we see whatever it is he's planning for the NFL scouts. Longshot maybe, but .. we'll see.

If you can trade up for RG3 then you can trade up for Luck. Manning is still having problems with his throwing arm. He has nerve problems causing loss of strength in that arm. It’s not his neck. It’s the nerve damage as a result of the neck problem. If a slinger like Manning can’t throw a fastball he isn’t worth squat. The Colts have a history with him and could be forced to keep him given the right deal. Trade whatever it takes to get Luck. Trade your entire draft this year and maybe a first next year. Think of the salary cap room you will gain. We need a new Marino or a new Manning or a new Montana not an old, used, rode hard and put away wet Payton (can’t feel my right arm) Manning. This could set up our Dolphins for the next decade.

its NATE Kaeding, not Nick...

..Actually my statement about Henne(in the last sentance of my last post) was a little harsh. I will say that Henne has been nothing short of class during his time here. Really the only gaff I can remember is when he called out the fans for chanting Ortons name last camp. Besides this Henne has been professional, and classy in a tough situation. Luckily, for Henne. Miami is not New York, or Philly, or a sports town where the fans and media will eat you alive..In Miami..People could care less about the troubles of Chad Henne and the 6-10 Dolphins..Too much other stuff to do.

Anyway..Henne has been a proffesional. It would be easy for him to come out and rip the team, the fans..The way he was handled last season after his injury..Lots. He has kept quiet, and gone about his buisness. And for this I wish him luck. This is not personel, and what wrote sort of sounded this way. I don't know Chad Henne, I'm sure he is a great guy..I just think we need to start fresh, let Henne start fresh..And move on.

Well said Darryl, He needs to move on to another team.

I asked this last blog... Are we keeping our QB coach or are we still on the market for one. I would love to have Green Bay's QB coach here!

I haven't heard much talk about Keenum. Yet he's supposedly this record-breaker. What's up with that? Is it just because he played at Houston? Could he be like Steve McNair (from Acorn St.)? Or is there not much to see with the guy?

JS in LA,

I think the team needs to look at which of these guys will have the most impact long-term. Is that Tannehill? Weeden? Cousins?

I'm not familiar enough with anyone, except the top two and Weeden. Like them all, to be honest. I think the wildcard could be Tannehill. I'd be really tempted to take a shot on him. What's the worst that can happen?


GB's QB coach, Tom Clements, is their new OC. Ex-CFLer, by the way, as is Jason Garrett and Sean Payton. All three QBs.

Should we be looking at one of them?.....LOL.

Keenum skipped the senior bowl, or wasn't invited. Not sure.
But he destroyed Penn State his last game. Last I saw PSU was still considered bigtime talent to go up against.
But NFlers want to see him up close, and so would I. I'm on the fence with him. We'll see what the next phase brings.
I think he's shorter than desired 6-1 ish. But he's built solid enough to handle sacks from an NFL lineman at least.

DC...I don't want to speak for anyone. I know a few who are in the Keenum camp..IMO he isn't going to be in that first or second round range. So unless we make a move in free agency.I'm not sure how he comes into play. I don't see us taking a quarterback in the mid-rounds should we not draft one in the first 2 rounds..Doesn't make much sense to me.

Keenum is a passing machine. I just think scouting wise. The football brains don't know if the system translates into NFL success. He reminds me a bit of Colt Brennan..

Manning or Flynn, RG3 will be a bust. That type of QB wins games not championships. my opinion Try for Blackmon, if we can't get him trade down stock pile picks to trade up for Matt Barkely next year, he will be ready to step in and play his first year that gives us time to strenthen the team around him.

If you can trade up for RGIII or Blackmon then do it but Tannehill could be a much wiser commitment then RGIII there is no telling sometimes with QBs... look at Dalton. Marino was drafted 3rd also...

Personally, I saw a turnover machine in Tannehill while at A&M. He's still learning the QB position, and that learning curve is harsh in the NFL for much more experienced and smarter Qbs than him. His play wasn't even good enough at T A&M to keep his coach's job. Bigtime project that would fit somewhere best behind an aging HOFer who could really get him up to speed. Don't see a brand new HC (philbin) and a retread like M.Moore being successful in making Tannehill bigtime. Not saying it can't happen, but it seems less likely than not.
Would the Finfans really be lenient with a turn-over prone rookie who will probably look lost for a few years? Doesn't sound good for us or him, I think.

Kendall Wright will be one of the top 5 WR picked in this draft. Randall was very good also.

JS in LA,

I wouldn't want Tannehill to play for at least two years and I don't think he'd have to with Moore here. Go out and get another vet QB to back him up should he get hurt or prove ineffective. So, while I don't know Tannehill well enough, if he were translate well down the road, I want him on the team. Guys that are a lot smarter than me can figure that out.

« 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 »

The comments to this entry are closed.