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Steep price of trading up can be worthwhile

Sometimes trading up is the right thing to do. Sometimes trading up is brilliant. Sometimes trading up helps win a Super Bowl.

Or two.

If the Dolphins were to have doubts they can fill their quarterback situation the hard way -- the right way, in my opinion -- by trading up to get Robert Griffin III for example, all they have to do for affirmation is look at what the New York Giants did in 2004 with Eli Manning.

Manning, you'll recall, was supposed to be the No. 1 overall selection of the 2004 draft. But the San Diego Chargers held that pick and the Manning clan made clear to the Chargers they didn't want to be in Southern Cal. (Who knows, maybe Eli didn't like Mexican food or something). Well, the Chargers picked Manning anyway, but only because they had a trade already executed with with the New York Giants, who had picked Phillip Rivers with the No. 4 overall pick.

Basically the Giants traded away their No. 1 pick in 2004 (Rivers), their No. 1 pick in 2005 (turned out to be Shawne Merriman), their third-round pick in 2004 (turned out to be K Nick Kaeding) and their fifth-round pick in 2005.

So two firsts, a third and a fifth for the top overall selection.

It was considered a treasure trove of picks then. Today, it is considered a wise investment for the Giants, who have won two Super Bowl titles the past four years with Manning as their quarterback.

So I turn your attention to the coming draft in April. Unless there is a major surprise, Andrew Luck will be selected with the first overall pick. The St. Louis Rams have the second pick and coach Jeff FIsher recently said his team is open to trading the pick to the highest bidder.

That pick can be used to select Griffin.

So what would it cost the Dolphins to rise from No. 8 or No. 9, depending on a coin toss, to No. 2?

A lot.

It will take at least two first round picks and probably closer to three first round picks. And it might actually take this years No. 1, next year's No. 1, the 2014 No. 1 and possibly something else like a third or fifth rounder thrown in there somewhere.

I wasn't kidding when I said a lot.

It sounds like an outrageous price to pay. It seems ludicrous that the Dolphins would pay it. But in weighing whether to pay it or not, one must balance that steep price with the idea that Griffin will likely play a decade and he may well become every bit the franchise quarterback that Eli Manning is today.

No, I'm not saying Griffin will win two Super Bowls someday. I am saying that to a club that has a conviction on Griffin, to a club that believes him to be a franchise talent, the price is worth it.

Yesterday, I told you why I don't believe Peyton Manning as a free agent is the answer in my opinion. Mostly it has a lot to do with the lack of certainty about this nerve issues but it also has a tremendous amount to do with the fact his window with his new team is two, maybe three years at best.

That is not a long-term solution to Miami's quarterback situation.

By the time Peyton is saying good-bye to the NFL, RG3 will be warming up for his primetime years. You must remember that Eli didn't win the starting job his first year in the NFL. And in his second year, he posted a 0.0 quarterback rating in a game against Baltimore. And yet, the Giants had the courage of their conviction on the kid. The stuck with him, grew with him, and now they're reaping the rewards of that long hike to the promised land.

That's how great organizations handle the quarterback issue. The Steelers, Patriots, Packers, Ravens, Falcons, Colts, Lions all trained their sites on draft picks they believed would become franchise QBs and went with their conviction on those players.

I understand Houston, Chicago and New Orleans acquired their franchise QBs differently -- through trade or free agency. But none of the players those teams acquired where over 30 much less 36. Peyton Manning will be 36 next month.

Griffin will be 22 years old next week. He can play a decade for Miami and still be many useable years younger than Peyton Manning is today.

And I get the idea that perhaps Griffin will be a bust. As Bill Parcells is fond of saying, they don't sell insurance for this stuff. But I just don't see how this kid doesn't succeed. He's got the arm. He's got the brains -- he graduated seventh in his high school class, was on the Baylor Dean's list multiple times, was on the Big 12 Commissioner's list in 2010, graduated Baylor in three years and was working on his Master's Degree this past season -- and he obviously has the athletic prowess.

It also must be said RG3 carries no personal baggage. Kid lives right, prays hard, works hard, comes from a military family and is getting married soon. He's the kind of kid you want as a son-in-law.

I do not see how RG3 misses the mark in the NFL. Does he throw off his back foot sometimes? Yes. But I hear that is what coaches are paid to correct.

RG3 will be an NFL franchise QB long after Peyton Manning is out of the league. That's only my opinion. The Dolphins have scouts. I suppose they have an opinion. General manager Jeff Ireland has Baylor connections as an alumnus of the school. I suppose he has an opinion. They should know things about the kid no one else does.

But if they don't know that sometimes you have to pay a price to buy a top prospect, all they have to do is look at the New York Giants and how they got their franchise quarterback. It was done with a draft-day trade-up that cost tons of treasure.

But that trade-up has returned tons of treasure as well in the form of Super Bowl rings.

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jj's coattails? jj won double digit games once in 4 years here

dusty bottoms | February 07, 2012 at 08:44 PM

JJ put together a hard nosed nucleus that Wannstedt rode to the Playoffs and he systematically destroyed that team by the time he was done in 04. A team which was the youngest in Football in 2000 was in need of a major overhaul by 2004 when he mercifully for us all quit after that 1-7 start, common man!!

henne isnt a decent backup, guy is awful no matter where u put him. wheres all those fools that ripped me for saying how bad he was before the season

Hey fin4life,

Wasn't it Waandshyt who traded for A.J. Feeley?

fin he had fiedler at qb, that says it all. ricky ran away on him

and wanny didnt make those moves, spielman did

fin4life,

Thanks. You seem to know a lot more facts than most.

Which of the three options do you think the Fins will take?

1)Manning if ok
2)Flynn
3)Griffin, if so, all picks or picks and player(s)

Henne is better than Losman. Don't be surprised if they resign him. They will be hard pressed to find another QB that will be as capable as him in 2012.

Time to take a chance,medeocrity sucks,hopefully they do what it takes to get R.G3.kid has a high upside

Joe Robbie | February 07, 2012 at 08:32 PM


Joe,

With all due respect it started with you Sir! In the Mid 70's you let Kick,Zonk and Warfield walk to the World Football League and in 77 in order to save a buck you let G.M. Bobby Bethard walk to Washington while letting Shula pull double duty as your HC/G.M. It would haunt you for the rest of your life watching the team Bethard put together in Wash. kick our a s s all over the field in S.B.-17

they would never even think of signing henne. they will get a new qb one way or another

fin4life,

It all went downhill when we let Bobby Beathard walk.

I can't believe We have a fellow Dolphan who actually thinks wannsdtet should be considered a good coach.You must really miss jay fiedler dusty bottoms.Dave squandered great Dolphin talent,i.e,Zach,JT.Your senile dusty!

i all went downhill when the bills became the unbeatable team in the 90's

Disagree with you about RG3...he may start somewhere next season eventually but he has a LONG ways to go to be NFL starter ready let alone to be good...Manning was a much better prospect...I could be wrong but I would not pay such a steep price that it will cost to land this future likely mediocre qb.

Hey fin4life,

Wasn't it Waandshyt who traded for A.J. Feeley?

Tim in Tampa | February 07, 2012 at 08:56 PM

CORRECT! Along with Lamar Gordon!

watch out flipper here comes the attacks

By default, we will have to sign Henne because there is nobody better within reach. Thats the way it is.

fin4life,

It all went downhill when we let Bobby Beathard walk.

Tim in Tampa | February 07, 2012 at 09:04 PM

He built the Skins a team that went to 4 S.B.'s in his time there winning 3. He later went to S.D. after Fouts when they were horrible and got them to the 94 S.B. He also will however be remembered as well as the guy who drafted Ryan Leaf but you can't win them all and 5 S.B. teams assembled in a 20 yr. career is nothing to sneeze at.

Who within reach will be better than Henne in 2012??????

We can't just go with Moore and Lossman

Did Matt Moore come in cold and take this roster to 6-3?

Did Moore go 6-3(extrapolates out to roughly 11-5)with Colombo and Carey manning the right side? With John Jerry filling in for Long at LT?

Matt Moore?

Moore will be in camp. He's set the bar for us at this point(6-3, 11-5).

I don't know what will happen with the QB position, Free Agency or the draft. I do think it's safe to say that we've upgraded from SpOrano with Philbin. I think it's safe to say that going with the tangible evidence to date(FA and the Draft aside)this roster, with Philbin and Moore can win 9 or maybe even 10 games.

I think we're ready to knock on the door as it is. Throw in a great FA and draft, who knows.

I personally feel pretty good going forward at this point. An Acorn here, a find there and I think were challenging for at least a Wildcard spot-REGARDLESS!

i all went downhill when the bills became the unbeatable team in the 90's

dusty bottoms | February 07, 2012 at 09:05 PM


Our terrible drafting by G.M. Shula did not help our HC Shula much with the talent he had to work with.

Hey fin4life,

Wasn't it Waandshyt who traded for A.J. Feeley?

Tim in Tampa | February 07, 2012 at 08:56 PM

CORRECT! Along with Lamar Gordon!

Posted by: fin4life | February 07, 2012 at 09:07 PM

That's it then.
Case closed.
Waandshyt set the Dolphins back.
Waandshyt you bbaassttaarrdd!!

thanfully moore wont be starting for us. tired of this same old bs, we have to get a real qb this year. no more waiting, idiots were in here couple years ago and last year hyping henne also. wake up

It would haunt you for the rest of your life watching the team Bethard put together in Wash. kick our a s s all over the field in S.B.-17

Posted by: fin4life | February 07, 2012 at 09:01 PM

Ooooooooooooooouch!

Sad but true, it still haunting ME and it's still haunting YOU!

Armondo I can't believe you are actually behind trading the house for an unproven rookie. There are others out there that can be just as good and cost us much less in the long run. Kellen Moore would be a very good fit and has all the potential to be a very good quarterback in this league. I am a gambler, but betting our entire draft for the next three years is simply stupid and reckless.

Dusty tell us which qb you will pull out of a hat, because there are no franchise qb's available to us.

Armondo I can't believe you are actually behind trading the house for an unproven rookie.

Posted by: fairlyodd | February 07, 2012 at 09:17 PM


All rookies are unproven.

Don McNeal's infamous non-tackle on John Riggins!!
Ooooouuucccchhhh!!
Hurts like a mudda fugga!

imba theres 2 in the draft, go get one

I say let get this kid.

Don McNeal's infamous non-tackle on John Riggins!!

Ooooouuucccchhhh!!

Hurts like a mudda fugga!

Posted by: Tim in Tampa | February 07, 2012 at 09:20 PM

TIM! STOP! PLEASE! JUST! STOP!

FLASHBACKS!!!!!

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!!!!

Tom Brady gets traded to Indy for the #1 pick; secures Pats destiny for another 15 years...

Meanwhile we trade for Tebow; fill the stands, but end up 8-8.

dusty, dreaming won't help you. Colts don't want picks, they want a franchise QB to replace Manning. The Vikes and Browns have a higher draft position to offer.

Ain't gonna happen.

So no chance for Luck or Rg3. Dreaming won't make anything happen.

I'm not advocating sticking with Moore. I'm just stating the facts. With SpOrano in charge(most of the way)and Moore starting, we went 6-3.

That's our worse case scenario.

Philbin is a definite upgrade and any others will be GRAVY!

Worse case scenario in my opinion, Moore taking us to a wildcard spot.

My main point being, despite popular opinions, this team is on the upswing.

I don't have much expectations for 2012. New coaches, new systems. It takes time. The competition is already in sync and a few steps ahead of us.

u never know until u call them imba

and as far as griffin goes, u bet ur ass u could get him. the rams will deal that pick to the highest bidder

Vikes and Browns can offer a higher bid because they have higher picks.

@Mando, Jeff fisher doesn't want to wait 3 years to win, so future 1st round picks will not cut it. Clevland will win the bid, they have 2 first round picks now. To win the bid, you have to throw great players like Jake Long, and WR Marshall which what St Louis wants (left takle an a wr). You can always find good receivers in free agency. Te bottom line, I agree with you about trading up, and Jeff Ireland should do whatever it takes to get RG3. IMO, Flynn doesn't have the arm and you need toi have strong arm to win superballs. Ross shouldn't push Ireland to get Manning. @Ross stay aside and let football guys decide.

yeah this year, doesnt mean we cant throw in future picks and entice them

Rams want the top left tackle or wr, they can't wait until pick 8 or 9. 5 is more realistic.

-- by trading up to get Robert Griffin III for example, all they have to do for affirmation is look at what the New York Giants did in 2004 with Eli Manning.

-Armando Salguero-

Just a quick couple a questions Mando.

Did Griffen Sr. play QB at the NFL level?

Did Griffen Sr. Coach up the best QB in the history of Tennesse Football?

Did Griffen III learn from his Daddy and his Super Bowl winning Hall Of Fame Big Brother?

Gee, I didn't realize growing up in a military family was the same as growing up in the Archie Manning Family.

I know, that was more than two questions, but you get the point.

ok i need to know how to spell super bowls :-).

ok i need to know how to spell super bowls :-).

Posted by: Kasey Tiger | February 07, 2012 at 09:40 PM

N-E-W Y-O-R-K G-I-A-N-T-S

Hope that helps.

Rocks have more insight than Armando. His idea of living right is praying and having military parents.

Was Armando ever in the military? I doubt it. Does he have an idea what military men do at ports of call? They aren't praying I can tell you that, but they may be in a similar position.

odinseye - you may not get a response.
I believe Armando is still swimming like a salmon.

N-E-W Y-O-R-K G-I-A-N-T-S
Hope that helps.

Posted by: Tim in Tampa | February 07, 2012 at 09:43 PM

How quickly we forget. Nobody ever remembers, I know.

The Ravens Field Goal Kicker and Tedd Ginn Jrs back up? Shanks and gift wrapped turnovers inside your own 20?

Ring any bells?

I know they **CALLED IT** the Super Bowl, but realistically speaking, WAS IT?

odinseye - you may not get a response.
I believe Armando is still swimming like a salmon.

Posted by: Tim in Tampa | February 07, 2012 at 09:45 PM

ROTFLMAO!

Why does Armando care who Our Dolphins draft?
He obviously isn't a fan of the franchise.Salguero should just stick to cashing his check.I loathe negativity and Armando exudes bitterness and resentment with the Dolphins.He should just grow a pair a balls.He's so wishy-washy with his comments.

My main point being, despite popular opinions, this team is on the upswing.

Posted by: odinseye | February 07, 2012 at 09:31 PM

I agree here with you, some say that Philbin is unproven and while true he was on a Coaching staff were he had to at the very least be on the same page with McCarthy given he promoted him from within his Offensive Coaching staff while Sparano was always in over his head and NEVER for all his BRAVADO seemed willing to override Henning in games were the O was sputterring bad alot of times IMO because there was no rhythm or cohesion if you will with one unspectacular call after another.

I'll give you one game that Henning looses all by himself on a call (one of many). In 09 in Buffalo with Miami leading 7-0 and Ricky running at will after Ronnie got hurt we get the ball 1st and goal at the two and what does the fossil call but a Wild Cat play designed for Ricky to throw it and it gets picked game swings and we get blown out by a team which had won a grand total of 2 games by that point, why!? It should have been a toss sweep of LT and Long would have escorted him in! How about 2010 with everybody focused on the Big Ben fumble alot lost sight of the fact Polite was on the field in our 2 minute O!? I could go on but why!

fin4life,

Thanks. You seem to know a lot more facts than most.

Which of the three options do you think the Fins will take?

1)Manning if ok
2)Flynn
3)Griffin, if so, all picks or picks and player(s)

Swamy | February 07, 2012 at 09:00 PM

Sorry Swamy,

Missed your post till now, your questions in order:

1)If O.K. yes but still draft one.

2) Seems like Fools Gold or AJ Feeley repackaged, how else do you explain a Natl. Champ. QB falling to Rd.7, could be wrong Philbin better be right if he takes him because it will sink or swim his career

3) I like RG111 a bunch but won't mortgage picks in Rd.1 till 2015 for anybody period, my points are on a 4:11 post I put up.

Thanks for the props what can I say I'm a fountain of useless info. or maybe not? odin seems to think we could run a Sports Bar.

I wonder if anyone has ever actually rolled on the floor laughing their ass off over a comment that was mildly amusing.

I'm guessing probably not, unless they were batsh*t crazy.

I wonder if anyone here knows .00001% of what any NFL coach or scout knows.

[ If we were bad enough to pick number one overall
[ next year, I would say no way. But we are probably
[ giving away 3 number 15 picks. Big deal. Unless a
[ team is very very lucky a 15 becomes a slightly
[ above average player. And that is if your a lucky.
[ The Phins haven't been lucky since Zack Thomas.
[
[ klndry (February 07, 2012 at 02:42 PM)

THIS! If the Dolphins' roster had no talent like in 2007, then three first round picks are too much to lose. But the roster now is pretty talented. Hate on Parcells/Ireland all you want (and they certainly made mistakes), but the Dolphins can afford to risk the ship on RG3 now and that's really all that's left to do.

From my perspective, I'd rather cheer for RG3. Peyton is awesome and I wish him the best, but there's something bittersweet about cheering for a player at the end of his career. It was fun to cheer for Pennington, but it's difficult to cheer while holding your breath. It was not fun to cheer for Henne (not fun at all). Hell, the most fun I've had as a Dolphins fan in the last 15 years was when Cleo Lemon hit Greg "Rich" Camarillo to avoid infamy. No, seriously.

Trading three first round picks for RG3 takes conviction. It's an investment and a risk. That's how I want to cheer, with great expectations. I want to cheer like I've got something to lose. I want to rediscover that passion; that conviction.

Manning and Flynn aren't on that trajectory.

Three first rounders for RG3? That's three defensive or offensive lineman that the Dolphins would not be drafting over the next three years!

I wonder if anyone has ever actually rolled on the floor laughing their ass off over a comment that was mildly amusing.

I'm guessing probably not, unless they were batsh*t crazy.

Posted by: Reginald Van Gleason | February 07, 2012 at 10:09 PM

Dear Mrs. Reginald Van Gleason....how's the food at the mental hospital these days?

Franklin Brandon Overton | February 07, 2012 at 10:28 PM

ROTFLMAO!! Oooops! I guess I must be batsh*t crazy, now everybody knows!! I'm also taking a hammer to my nuts while laughing histerically! BWAAAAAAAAAAAH HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH HAAAAAAAAAH!!!

New york Jets fans are switching to Giants, Yessssss, that sounds great.

odin seems to think we could run a Sports Bar.

Posted by: fin4life | February 07, 2012 at 10:06 PM

Oops, sorry Fin4. That must have been a typo.

I meant *RUIN* the place. As in completely trash the joint at the first sight of jets and pastsy fans!

Till the Wheels Fall Off Bro!

fin4life.......... LEAVE ODIN ALONE .......

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