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Philbin address to alumni shows attempt to balance building through the draft and Peyton Manning chase

As the Dolphins and other NFL teams chase Peyton Manning they recognize adding a potentially great player who is nearly 36-years old could improve the team dramatically, yes, but also could add to the roster a player fully formed by another team's culture, one who already established his philosophies and techniques while working elsewhere.

That can be a dilemma for some teams. It is apparently something of a dilemma for Dolphins coach Joe Philbin. You see, Philbin formed his philosophy on team-building with the Green Bay Packers in recent years and the Green Bay way is to build almost exclusively through the draft.

The Packers have not signed a free agent in two offseasons and Philbin believes, at least in part, that's the right way to do it. Yet, his team is chasing Manning, arguably the biggest NFL free agent in years.

Philbin addressed that dilemma on Wednesday evening when he met with an invited group of Dolphins alumni. The Dolphins invited their former players to the Nick Saban Memorial Bubble (NSMB) and had Philbin and his staff meet and greet with them.

"I was extremely impressed," defensive end Jeff Cross said this morning on my radio show, Armando and Perkins. "I had the opportunity to ask [Philbin] what about the draft stuck out for him, if anything. And he went on to say, I'm trying to summerize, he pointed out that in his entire time in Green Bay on offense, no single free agent wound up ever being a starter for them.

"So they are big advocates of drafting players and developing them. He actually said that good healthy players, the chances of good players being healthy and being allowed to become free agents is very minimal in the National Football League."

Former free safety Louis Oliver was also at the event and got the same message from Philbin.

"He was talking about his vision and his vision is he wants to build players from within, you know, draft and cultivate our own players as opposed to bringing in players from the outside," said Oliver, who immediately recognized the irony because of the Manning chase.

"But I think a guy like Peyton Manning puts you in such a dilemma because of what he can do and what he can bring to your team and organization. We're stuck right now with the question of building from the ground up or bringing people in and plugging them in right away because you know what you're getting."

Regardless of whether Philbin likes or dislikes the idea of filling his quarterback need with a free agent rather than a draft pick, he is clearly accepting of the fact the Manning chase is going to be the way the club will initially try to address the quarterback position.

"He finished his little talk with us with a little Q&A," Cross said. "And before anyone asked the first question, he jokingly addressed the Peyton Manning issue. He said there's going to be a Peyton Manning fund you guys can contribute to on the way out the door. So yeah, there seems to be a little disconnect between that and his personal philosophy on free agency."

Obviously, the Manning derby is the one everyone is focused upon now. But Philbin's stated philosophy seems more at odds with the idea of adding potential free agents that have been tied to Manning.

Yes, the Dolphins seem comfortable with Manning because he's a signature addition. But would their desire to add through the draft affect a decision on signing Reggie Wayne? Or Jeff Saturday? Those guys are considered Manning security blankets.

Do they fall in under the Manning umbrella or does the team's desire to add talent primarily through the draft excluse those aging veterans?

Cross said Philbin also shared with the alumni his view of Miami's personnel needs going forward.

"He feels the offensive line certainly has to be be better," Cross said. "He went on to say the pass-rush has to be better. And if we're going to beat New England, we have to have defensive backs that can cover their receivers. I thought that was extremely insightful as to where things might be headed in the next couple of months."

The Dolphins, by the way, have been very active lately getting both Philbin and general manager Jeff Ireland in the community and interacting with not only their alumni but fans. Ireland, for example, held a conference call with season ticket holders earlier this week.

Tonight, both will be at Sun Life Stadium as guest auctioneers in the "Ultimate Sports Auction," an event that will benefit the Make-A-Wish Foundation. Cross and nearly a dozen other sports celebrities will be at the event. Philbin has also visited local newspapers and spoken to various business groups.

At no time, however, was he quite so transparent as how he was with the former Dolphins players.

Comments

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There is no comparison between Joe Montana and Peyton Manning as it pertains to being released and signed.

1989 Chiefs - 8-7-1
1990 Chiefs - 11-5
1991 Chiefs - 10-6
1992 Chiefs - 10-6
1993 Chiefs - 11-5 (Montana)
1994 Chiefs - 9-7 (Montana)
1995 Chiefs - 13-3 (Bono)

Chiefs were already pretty darned good. Miami is NOT pretty darned good.

What I don't understand is how is there all this enthusiasm to sign Peyton when he hasn't even worked out for any team yet and there is no conclusive report available about where his arm is at right now. It's completely unknown. Sure his daddy will say its great, his mommy too. Let's see a report on a team workout before getting giddy with excitement.

Some of you fans if to even call you Fins Fan, do you really think in the draft where going to get RGIII or Andrew Luck, please be real we would have to give alot of draft picks, and you new coach wants to build with the draft please get real, I would like to know what if we get Manning get some pieces in place for some reason we sniff a Divisional Playoff game would you morons say the Manning addition was wrong.. Wow you guys call yourself Fin fans...

We gave Chad Henne 4 years to be our starter "project". Guess what were back where we started. We can get another project as far as im concerned!! But in the mean time lets get manning and wins some games. NFL Sunday ticket needs to earn my business back!!

Chiefs got BETTER after they released Montana.

What if RG3 asks for half the salary maximum and Rams let him go for our 8th this year and our 2nd next year? Will we go for it?

There are two ways a coach comes into his position.

A) We will blow this thing up and you have full reign to start over.

B) We think we have many pieces in place and we expect you and your staff to make the most of what we have.

I guarantee you that more coaches are hired on plan B.

Q, the shame was not with the Raiders for picking Russel first overall, the consensus was that he was worth the pick. The shame lays with Russel himself for being such a bum and in efect being the anti-Manning. he was just happy cashing cheques and getting fat. he had no interest in perfecting his craft.

It's not like they found this guy in Mississippi Valley state and brough him from nowhere. If the Raiders didn't draft him, someone shortly after would have.

Some things you just can't project.

And fyi, I do analysis and research for a living, companies pay me a very healthy salary in order to do so. In addition, I do quite well in the stock market by being able to interpret factors and market movement. So congrats on reading the SI article. Well done.

Bring in Manning, okay cool. Reggie Wayne wants to come along with him, okay cool. Jeff Saturday...??? NO WAY!!! If Jeff Saturday is a part of the deal I say can the whole plan! Move along, NEXT!

wolfman, do you think that bringing Manning in is a sign that the franchise is rudderless?

Do you think bringing Manning in is forcing a player the coach doesn't want?

personally, I think bringing in a hall of fame qb who can still play elite ball would be a good way of ensuring job security. Better than bringing in a 7th round pick with 2 career starts and a big, handcuffing contract to run the show ...

So, assume Manning comes, we will eventually need a yound drafted QB to succeed him. This seems to be Philbin's philosophy as well, so I feel comfortable with this.
However, when do you draft him? I say this year.
I like Cousins to hold the clipboard for a couple of seasons.
But if some of you would rather wait, here's what the experts say you have to pick from coming up:

2013

1. M. Barkley (USC) *top pick, out of reach
2. L. Jones (OU)
3. Tyler Wilson (Ark)
4. Geno Smith (WVU)
5. EJ Manuel (FSU)


2014

1. Tyler Bray (Tenn) *top pick, out of reach
2. Aaron Murray (UGA)
3. Casey Pachall (TCU)
4. Logan Thomas (VTU)
5. Zach Mettenberger (LSU)

Anybody 2-5 on these list float your boat?
I think Jones is my only maybe, and I want to see more of him to decide. From what I've seen so far, not impressed yet.
I still say I want to start our future now. Manning or not.

Mark in Toronto - It's not necessarily that I think it's a bad idea....I'm sick of the band aid approach this team has been taking for 15 years, that's all.

If they sign Manning, I'll be rooting for him. Like I said earlier, other than Marino, he's my favorite QB of all time.

I'm just sick of the band aid approach, and this is exactly that.

Mark,

Wow, I am so impressed you get paid to do research. Yet you avoided all my arguments and your opinions on Manning seem based 100 percent on emotion. You compare Farve who never had 4 neck surgeries or nerve regeneration issues to Manning who has had those problems, totally illogical comparison.

Stock traders are notorious for letting emotion overcome the facts. I trade the markets too :) and have been paid to write code for endless strategies for many platforms. I know that game inside and out.

You guys hate Henne, hate Moore, hate Flynn, hate Manning, hate Marshall (many of you), hate Ireland, hate Ross, hate Daniel Thomas (cuz we traded up to get him)

I thought I was in a Dolphins blog? Do you even want to like any of our players? Would you still find the negative when we start winning again?

I live near Cleveland, and there are die hard Browns fans that try to find the good with a lot less of team that has not won a SuperBowl in their long history and have sucked WAY longer than the phins.

I'm not saying we should agree with everything the organization does, but some 'fans' seem to hate EVERYTHING about the team.

If team X,Y or Z says we will give you this, that and the other. Miami should say we will match that AND give you something else.

Miami should be "calling" and "upping the ante" on every team looking to trade up to get RGII.

um mamnning neck look like my lizard. no Thanks

I am pretty sure that Peyton must pass physicals from the Teams interested in him. At the same time, Pennington passed and lasted 2 plays. How'bout that for depressing?

Band-aid approach? We have tried every single possible approach OTHER than drafting a QB in the top 5. Thats the only approach we HAVE NOT taken, ever. So to just say all we do is the band-aid approach is quite inaccurate.

Ohio Dolfan

Some fans hate the fact we are currently on our longest losing season streak in franchise history.

My name is Mark in Tornto and I have a fancy spancy job and companies pay me handsomly blah blah blah. And I'm a douche

wolfman,
Agree. A very fancy, snazzy, sparkly band-aid. But one nonetheless.
Honestly, I'll go one further. I feel like we're renting him.
He's a terrific person and player, and anyone would love to have him on their team. But I just don't want Ross to wash his hands and say, "See, I fixed it. Done"

IF we draft a good young QB, this has a fair shot of working out.
If not, then we follow in Minnesota's footsteps. Except we may not see a QB we like in the next few drafts like they did. Check my list above.

See if you see one.

I'm with you on the long term solution boat wolfman, but the franchise let two opportunities go to bring in first round grade qbs between last year and 2008.

Unless you want Ryan Tannehill, there won't be a chance this year unless Miami overpays for RG3 and subsequently will have to build the team around him at a much slower pace without the full compliment of draft picks. This would be my choice.

Manning seems like a great alternative ... this year at least.

Band-aid approach? We have tried every single possible approach OTHER than drafting a QB in the top 5. Thats the only approach we HAVE NOT taken, ever. So to just say all we do is the band-aid approach is quite inaccurate.

Posted by: thvafin | March 08, 2012 at 01:00 PM

=======================================================

EXACTLY!

wolfman, do you think that bringing Manning in is a sign that the franchise is rudderless?
Do you think bringing Manning in is forcing a player the coach doesn't want?
personally, I think bringing in a hall of fame qb who can still play elite ball would be a good way of ensuring job security. Better than bringing in a 7th round pick with 2 career starts and a big, handcuffing contract to run the show ...
Posted by: Mark in Toronto | March 08, 2012 at 12:55 PM

____________________________________________________

Yes.....it is just another band aid. I do not see any long term plan here.....ergo, it is a rutterless ship.

When you look at the great teams out there, they have a direction and a vision for now and the future...they have a system and an approach. Miami consistently attempts to address their biggest need with 2 and 3 year band aids and later round acorns....nothing new here, just been doing that for fifteen years

When all is said and done, nobody is going to really remember Manning as a Dolphin...they will always remember him as a Colt. He's not "our" QB....he'll just be on loan for a couple years until he goes back to Indy to retire.

And no....I'm not on the Flynn wagon. I'll take Manning anyday over Flynn. My only oposition to Manning is that is VERY temporary.

Q,

If you are sick of the 15 year losing streak you should get ready for more losing for 3 years if we grab Flynn or draft a young QB.

Manning could end that losing streak now and change the losing culture you all seem to be wallowing in.

Band-aid approach? We have tried every single possible approach OTHER than drafting a QB in the top 5. Thats the only approach we HAVE NOT taken, ever. So to just say all we do is the band-aid approach is quite inaccurate.
Posted by: thvafin | March 08, 2012 at 01:00 PM

______________________________________________________

Ummmmm.....that was pretty much my point....not sure why you're arguing with me.

Q,
If you are sick of the 15 year losing streak you should get ready for more losing for 3 years if we grab Flynn or draft a young QB.
Manning could end that losing streak now and change the losing culture you all seem to be wallowing in.
Posted by: Ohio Dolfan | March 08, 2012 at 01:11 PM

_____________________________________________________

Losing is mildly annoying. Not having a long term plan/solution is down right painfull. If they could come out and say, "we're doing X, Y, And Z...and this is our direction....this is the Dolphin way....we're going to build this team from the ground up....we're going to draft "our" franchise QB for the next 10-15 years."......I would be willing to endure so losses to see that happen.

What we'll get here is, hopefully, a couple of good years...then we start all over again anyways.

I completely agree with everyone saying the best option for us to win now and in the future is a QB as a top 5 draft choice..........

Here's the problem..............OUR DRAFT PICK

We are at number 8 with teams in front of us that have MUCH better trade bait than we do!

Our realistic best case scenario is to get Manning and draft a project young QB in a later round. It's not always as simple as saying "Make a better offer than any other team!" Unless of course you're playing Madden.

Q, my opinion is hardly based on emotion because Peyton is not even my #1 choice. It's just that I think it can be an effective solution - even for as many as four years.

And I don't argue health or neck procedures anywhere in my arguments because I'm simply not knowledgeable in that area. I don't know a neck procedure from an appendix removal. However, one main fact keeps sticking out in my mind in relation to health - a mitigating factor for me not understanding the seriousness of his procedures if you will - Why would Peyton continue to play if there was a serious chance he wouldn't be effective or be easily injured again?

This man has done everything and his legacy is written. He's made more money than almost all and is one of those guys that don't need to continue to play to make money. He has large endorsement deals that would ocntinue well into retirement. He doesn't need to take the risk ...

In addition he's happy with his progress and there are several experts who have no doubt that he will come back and play very well and have gone on record saying so. That's good enough for me on the health front ...

When all is said and done, nobody is going to really remember Manning as a Dolphin...they will always remember him as a Colt. He's not "our" QB.
===================================================
EXACTLY! Dan will always be our QB. All these other QB's are just band-aids. We need a tourniquet and not a band-aid.

At the very least, RGIII would bring some excitement to Miami.

i like rg3 but he's too expensive.great teams keep the picks(pats,packers,giants,steelers).in my opinion if we sign manning,then draft the best available DE/OLB @8, get b. osweiler in rd2(intriguing guy w/nice 2011 stats),w/the rest of the draft take the best available jt,tuck,pierre-paul DE/OLB clones.on the oline start jerry & murtha and let them gell into young killers & watch #18 help clay & fasano become excellent @ TE.in FA if possible, get the 2 reggies(nelson & wayne).

Really, the best way for Ross to come out winning or at least even, would be to hire a healthy Peyton Manning. If it works, seats will be full. If it doesn't, you know, I tried my best. Ireland, Philbin? They should understand.

wolfman, what if Miami signs Peyton because they don't like Tannehill and can't match the offer to trade up for RG3.

In addition, what if they take a QB in the 4th round or thereabouts?

Would you feel better about the approach then?

For all you who say Flynn is the anwser. Ask Arizona how Kolb is working out. Last I checked they are one of the 12 teams competing for the so called washed up QB that is bandade. This is win now league. If Manning brings the Dolphins closer to winning the Super Bowl then like 11 other teams you do what ever to get the best QB available. Who's to say Philbin even wants Flynn. We will not know till next week. The Dolphins can't wait till next week. The believe like 11 other teams, Manning is the best option to win now.

"We were sitting there watching and (the owner) called as soon as they wrapped up and Peyton was walking off the stage with (Colts owner Jim) Irsay," one junior NFL team executive team told Yahoo! Sports. "(Our general manager) kept assuring him, 'We’re going to get a meeting with Manning and we're going to do all our homework.'

"But I'll tell you, if we left it up to the owner, he might sign the guy, sight unseen."

"Just think about the trap you're in. If you sign the guy and he’s bad, it's probably going to cost you your job," one AFC GM said. "Or, if you don't sign him and he's great, it's probably going to cost you your job. This situation is a potential nightmare."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d827766b8/article/to-sign-or-not-to-sign-manning-one-gm-calls-it-a-trap

Hell even I was able to get you guys to the playoffs.

Let's say for a moment Peyton is healthy enough to be a reasonable facsimile of his former self for 2-4 years. Don't you believe that would be a HUGE UPGRADE at QB and give the Fins at least another 4 wins a year. This also gives the organization time to draft a long term replacement next year in the draft because the ONLY FRANCHISE QB this year is Luck and we simply will not have any chance of getting him. Now, with Peyton in the fold, Miami becomes a place that players actually want to come play as opposed to previous years where we got snubbed by some free agents that we could have used. Signing Peyton also addresses a need, albeit a short term fix. But more importantly without using up a very valuable draft pick. I believe we need to use our draft picks much better than years past, the prior front office (and Ireleand?!) were horrible evaluators of talent. The only draft pick I liked was Jake Long, I saw the value of the pick.

If we get Peyton and bring in Wayne the new regime can draft to fill needs like OL, DL/Pass Rusher and DB. They could probably trade down and turn that 8 pick into 2 late first round picks and get great value picks to fill those needs.

Just think back to those games last season that the fins lost by a TD or less, with Peyton and Wayne we win at least half those games if not more. It's a good pickup and the cost against the cap is meaningless, the bean counters will find a way to make it work IF Peyton wants to play in Miami. In the NFL the truly succesful organizations like the Pats (who we all hate) find a way to win even during the rebuilding process. I would say they are continually rebuilding and upgrading every year, that's why they are always the team to beat in the AFC East. The Fins need to change there philosophy and be continually looking to upgrade whenever possible either through the draft or free agency. That's my 2 cents.

Who says if the Dolphins sign Manning they can't draft a QB for the future. Sign Manning draft a QB let him learn for 2 or 3 years.

Everybody has to realize that this is the greatest FA of all Time.

Ohio

It seems as if many only read the last few blog entries and not the whole blog.

I've stated a few times that Flynn is no better than his 7th round status, and it has been reported by nfl insiders off the record, Flynn is simply not impressive.

Tannehill, has been evaluated by Scouts Inc. and they say he is only average in arm strength, can't stretch the field, is only average in accuracy and no way deserves to be a first round pick.

james in vegas,
i like the idea of parlaying #8 into some extra picks. i also like brock osweiler as the QB of the future.he's an intriguing dude with a rifle arm and nice 2011 stats.he gets to watch professor 18 for a couple of years and sit in meetings with him and 2 guys who coached favre and rodgers. i think oline is ok with jerry,murtha,and garner. so draft all the DE/OLB pass rusher types you can get and sign the 2 reggies in FA is possible

This blog has become a bunch of hater Jets fans wishing they could get Manning to come to NY. Instead they must endure a year of fist pumps with Sparano and Sanchez while us Dolphins fans get to enjoy a possible year of the greatest QB to put on a Dolphin uniform since Marino. Let us know how that works out for you?

That's true too. If we go for RG3 we will waste high draft picks. Not if we go for Peyton. Something to consider here.

Just off the top of my head, I equate a top 3 Draft pick=20 million dollars.

oscar, Peyton will only be the greatest FA of all time if he can perform to his pre injury level. Since the facts show his stats have declined every season since 2004, that is highly unlikely. We are talking about a QB that is currently not even in game shape.

The real point is that you sign Manning so you can build through the draft. Sign Manning and you can trade down in the draft and get more picks.

You sign Manning and he makes it two seasons you have just bought yourself 24 draft picks worth of players and hopefully one of those players can compete with Moore as QB of the future.

Plus you go from tarpping seats to filling seats. That gives the owner and g.m. the money to fix things over the next two to three years.

The only down side to Manning is that if he gets hurt Moore has to be the savior again. You do not get your qb of the future this year. You get your o-line/Lb/FS/CB of the future this year.

Then you implement operation sell the farm next year for a chance at two qb's that were rated infront of RGIII. Crap the price might not be so steep next year after all.

The very worse thing that Manning does is put preasure on your players to make the playoffs. Horrible thing to do.(not)

Go Dolphins!! The other point might be that Manning makes the O-line look super because his health issue would have to make them want to block better and longer. Plus Manning is an expert at calling out line adjustments before the snap, that is the only reason why I would bring in Saturday is so you can orchestrate a precision offense.(Not against leaving Pouncy at center though).

Maybe if you stay at 8 you draft the RB from Alabama some say he is the best player in the draft?? I would go all D this draft except for an o-lineman.

Q,

That's fine, but we can't get RGIII. So what's the plan?

How about Manning and a young QB to learn from the best?

wolfman, what if Miami signs Peyton because they don't like Tannehill and can't match the offer to trade up for RG3.
In addition, what if they take a QB in the 4th round or thereabouts?
Would you feel better about the approach then?
Posted by: Mark in Toronto | March 08, 2012 at 01:22 PM

_______________________________________________________

Yes and no....it depends. Don't you hate those kind of answers! Let me try to explain...

For me, the QB is a very large piece of the puzzle...the largest....but it's still just a piece. There are other pieces....and not only are there other pieces, but there also needs to be direction from the top down in establishing identity and vision.

Great teams not only have great players, but they have great vision and establish identities and an approach to the game. Yes, sometimes they falter, but they don't give up on the identity and the vision....they carry on and get the pieces to carry out that vision.

So, even with Manning, I would want to see some assemblance of vision for this team going forward. I would like to see an identity established that went beyond, "well, we have Manning now...we'll cross that other bridge when we get there."

For once, I would like to be able to articulate to my friends what the "Miami Dolphin way" is....much like they do when there talking about their teams.

Isn't it curious we don't see Indy trying to bring Peyton back to groom Luck. They no longer have to pay him he 28 mil bonus and are free to sign him like any other team.


Hmmmmmmm.

Crusher
Have you seen Osweiler play? You thought Henne checked down a lot? I have never seen a QB throw to his RB in the flats so much, ever. Or a designed WR swing in the flats. Either way 7 out of 10 passes just behind of in front of the line in the flats.. No thanks!

Ohio,

My plan is pay up, sell the farm and the farmers daughter for RG3. Take your chances. It is always a risk, I'm good with taking that risk for a guy like RG3. You can still deal with your other needs through FA for the next couple of years, we already have a solid young nucleus.


ESPN REPORTING THAT PHINS HAVE SIGNED CALEB HANIE

did armando really type the words nick saban memorial bubble (NSMB) or am i just having an acid flashback. that has to be a joke...right. they should let larry csonka blow that f#ckin thing up tommorow with some don shula memorial c-4. then we can gain our september/october heat/humidity edge back. peyton can get us up 17-0 and thomas, messam and bush can run our opponents into the dust.

The most important factor to consider in this case is: Is Peyton Manning healthy enough to play consistently? If so, is he the same Peyton? Less? How much less?

Henne was not franchised.

I was wrong.

I am hear to swallow all of your loads.

Begin now.

:0

Q,

There are 2 sides to a trade.........

Rams can say "No"

thevafan,
i only watched some clips posted on this or the sentinals website, & i did see what looked like a lot of wide receiver screen type plays , but is this him or the offense he played in? he just looks like he may have the tools is all i'm sayin. as a 2nd rounder who do you prefer?

Who the hell is Caleb Hanie?

SKEET!

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