« Dolphins eliminated from Manning chase, Flynn visiting | Main | Smith visit smells like leverage ... let's hope »

Getting Flynn at right price as important as getting him

The question today is apparently not whether the Dolphins will try to sign Matt Flynn. It seems if the team gets a chance to sign the Green Bay free agent backup quarterback, that is exactly what will happen.

No, the question I believe more important is not whether the Dolphins will try to sign Flynn but how they'll try to sign Flynn. It's a completely different issue and definitely as important an issue.

Flynn, according to a reliable source, will be in town sometime late tonight. He'll be here, assuming he doesn't get blown away by the Seattle Seahawks and simply jumps at the opportunity. But once he arrives, then what?

What to do with Flynn?

Do the Dolphins commit to Flynn as their starter or do they commit to him as, ahem, a quarterback who will come to camp and compete with Matt Moore for the starting job. In other words, do the Dolphins commit starting quarterback money or do they commit the kind of money a player who has a chance to start but isn't certain of that typically gets?

If the Dolphins are committing to Flynn as their starter, they may have to spend between $7-$9 million per season. The deal would probably extend past two years and there would be a chunky bag of guaranteed money included.

The lesser commitment is obviously cheaper -- probably $4-$5 million per year with incentive clauses that would hike the deal's worth if Flynn wins the starting job, thus deserving more money. This kind of deal protects the team if he fails.

Me?

Flynn is worth one but definitely not the other. He is a value if signing a deal that protects the team in case he's more A.J. Feeley than Drew Brees. He still gets paid if he becomes a star. But he has to earn his money rather than getting it the minute he walks in the locker room.

Makes sense, right?

The problem is Flynn wants to maximize his earning. He will want the biggest deal he can get, certainly his agent will want that. And because he's got two quarterback-hungry teams talking to him, he might be able to leverage one versus the other to get what he wants.

(Personally, I don't see the Seahawks letting themselves be held up. They paid Travaris Jackson a two-year deal worth $8 million last season. I assume if they offer Flynn, it'll be a similar deal and ask him to fight for the starting job. I say this because you must remember Flynn was not Seattle's top QB choice this offseason. They actually scheduled Chad Henne to come to town before Flynn. Henne never made it because he signed with Jacksonville.)

Well, the Dolphins can similarly make the case that Flynn is not their top choice. At least I hope they make that case. Everyone knows they wanted Peyton Manning. And I assume they aren't going to use the money on Flynn that they would have used on Manning.

At least I hope not because that's just dumb.

I guess what I'm asking is for the Dolphins to hold their desperation in check. Getting Flynn simply isn't like getting Manning. We don't even know if he's any good.

With Flynn it's not just about getting him to come. As a relatively unproven player, he has to come at the right price -- for the team.

Follow me on twitter please.

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Get him in and check the guy out. If he words and Philbin is comfortable with him competing with Moore, sign him up to what he is worth. If he wants too much walk.
Stating the obvious and FIRST

I don't know why some of you think Moore is so good...may I remind you he hasn't put together a season of games at all. The best stretch was 6-7 games before he folded in the past..
I'm not saying In Like Flynn is much better because I haven't seen enough of him..but I've seen a lot of Moore over the years and the best thing he did and knew how to do is fold at some point....
__________________________________
Matt Moore took over for Delhomme when he was injured in the 12th week of the 2009 season and won 4 of 5 to finish the season. The Panthers had a losing record before that and they finished 8-8, going 4-1 to end the season.
In 2010 he suffered a concussion in the first game. He didn't play well in his next game and was benched in favor of Clausen and missed the next 3 games. In week 9 he injured his shoulder and was put on IR for the remainder of the season. The Panthers had a lot of injuries in 2010. I don't put it all on him.
Last year he finished the season 6-3. That's similar to what he did in going 4-1 for Carolina in '09. This team didn't play well as a unit until after the midway point of the season. Moore is a good quarterback and he can improve if they take a little time with him. He's shown he could be a winner. At the end of the 2009 season he was 6-2 as a starter. 2010 was a different story but only because the Panthers coudln't protect him with their line having injuries.

It says a lot when Chad Henne is signed before Flynn. The media went bat$hit over the guy over the Detroit game and made him out to be the next Aaron Rodgers because he sat on the bench behind him and learned from watching him play.
Now, he has two teams interested in him and Miami is only talking to him because their first choice isn't going to pan out. $4-$5 million? That's still too much. $3 million tops, no guaranteed and some incentives but he needs to compete with Moore for the starting position. It's clear by the actions of both Seattle and Miami that Flynn isn't the franchise caliber quarterback that guys like LaConforna and Lombardi made him out to be.

this guy will be a good quarterback unless he goes to a team that can't hold a pocket for a while then he will suck in my mind he is a big money option for a team with a good offensive line.

Matt Moore was unemployed for 2 months last season, after he was released by Carolina, before the Phins gave him a 2 year contract @$1mil per season.

Henne was a free agent for 4 hours before J'ville gave him a 2 year contract:
$3mil sign bonus + $3.5mil sal + $2.75mil incentives

It's like I've been saying all along: Acorns come here. Good FA's go elsewhere.

The Dolphins need to rebuild this offense. I don't have a problem if the Dolphins bring in Flynn but only at a reasonable cost (around 4 million a year). I feel the best option is Tennehill. He has alot better arm then Flynn. Flynn is a little bit more accurate but can't make all the throws Tannehill can. Let both of them compete. If Tannehill is not ready, start Flynn until Tannehill developes. This approach gives the Dolphins two chances to succeed instead of putting on a QB with only 2 starts.

Prof Lou,
Here is the difference between spinning the facts and not spinning:
Spinning:
Moore finished the season 6-3.
Not Spinning:
Moore was 6-6 on the season. He has never beaten a team with a winning record. He has never thrown for 300 yards in a game.
Spinning:
Henne threw 31 TDs and 37 ints
Not Spinning:
Despite being pulled in the red zone 30 times, and having Marshall DROP 10 TD passes, Henne still managed to throw 31 TDs in 2 seasons.

When you compare the Not Spinning messages you understand why Henne is now making 5 times the money Moore is and we are screwed for the 2012 season.

"their first choice isn't going to pan out"? Is this an exclusive I missed somewhere? Yes Ross declared he was for Manning but I have never heard Philbin or Sherman make this claim! Until a player is signed everything else that comes from a front office at this time is smoke & mirrors! Philbin had to talk to Manning coz his boss said so! My personal view is that first time head coach Philbin has his own ideas about offence & doesn't want to let an ageing, crocked, on the slide QB dictate to him. (Especially as he may only get one shot at being a head coach!) I may well be totally wrong but until that contract is signed we are all just guessing!!

@Lou, it says nothing that Henne got signed before Flynn. Players dont get signed in order of talent.

SMF,
Before you post again you should check your facts.

@Lou Henne was signed before Flynn & Manning. By your logic that means we let the best QB go to free agency. No he was signed first coz he was cheaper - level of talent wasn't the deciding factor nor the date signed!

Moore was signed for 2yrs/5mil btw.Guy had a solid season.Does he need to improve in certain areas? Absolutely,but I think he showed enough to deserve a shot.

HENNE SIGNS A 2 YEAR DEAL TOTAL 12 MILLION A YEAR ,8 MILLION A YEAR .........

GOOD LUCK HENNE .....

OUR GARAGE MANAGER WILL KEPP SIGNING ACORNS CRAPS ........

SORRY,6 MILLION A YEAR .

@Lou, it says nothing that Henne got signed before Flynn. Players dont get signed in order of talent.
Posted by: Belgian Fin Fan | March 16, 2012 at 06:23 AM

You can try and rationalize it all you want. If Flynn was any good he would have been signed by Seattle long before Miami even got a chance to sniff him.

ALL HENNE HATERS ARE UNEMPLOYED LIKE HOME THE BROWN DONKEY ...


Philbin should know which way. In any case, that's in Ireland's hands to get us the best deal.

i myself think flynn will be a good choice. yeah he might have only played in a couple games but he did just fine in both from what i saw. Im a huge dolphins fan & i live in Sacramento & to me it seems like most of u are plain idiots when it comes to a good or even decent decision. what other options do u think we really have at qb anyways??? think about that b4 whining over flynn not being a franchise qb. i believe he will make a lot better & quicker decisions than more & henne combined plain & simple. did Mr all star qb tom Brady wow everyone when he first got on the field????? no he didn't. did flynn???? yes he did. so give the guy a big warm welcome into Miami & i guarantee dolphins fans won't be disappointed.

Lou very good point on Moore ....he showed that it factor many times when henne neva showed it .....fer instance 22 play 97 yard TD drive wit no R Bush gainst jets .....maybe wit some serious coaching n a full training camp ....u neva know ......

"He's shown he could be a winner
"

Has he? You say he ended 6-3, i say he ended 6-6. 9 ints and 14 fumbles and we were 6-10. Hes not a winner. He wont put enough points against brees or brady. We cant win with just Moore,everything has to be perfect. We need a real qb that can win games himself when the def isnt playing good. When were down 14 points. Its not matt moore

@Lou the paragraph starting "You can rationalise" is either intended to inform us of your close association with Matt Flynn - he must have confided in you that he doesn't fancy playing for Philbin - or u didn't get your professorship on a logic course! Again I am just guessing but what if Flynn wants to look his best in a system he knows run by a coach he knows & may trust? Is that rationalising or just a very basic flaw in your argument?

if the fins do not sign flynn, i see a senario where the brass pushes to land tannehill. give up future draft picks to get him. i would rather over pay flynn than take a chance on tannehill who may be a worse pro than flynn.

Come on everybody, be realistic. Do we really want to pay that much for Flynn when in all probability he will end up being a backup after training camp. Moore went 6-3 in his starts, let’s extrapolate that as if he started the season and had all the reps as a starter from training camp, good chance he might have gone 11-5 or 10-6, respectable for a first year starter. We should build around him and maybe sign QB in the draft and build that QB into the new system.

all good points...I like Moore and want to give him a chance but at the same time I want a quarterback with a high ceiling and I am not sure what Moore's potential is. Im sure most of us believe he is near his ceiling now.

No matter which vet plays for the Dolphins, the team needs to draft a Tannehill or Cousins to develop. Aaron Rodgers success is due in part that he was given two years to sit behind Favre. While I would like to see the Dolphins pick up Flynn and see him succeed, I'm afraid of the track record of hyped-up backups: Scott Mitchell, AJ Feely, Kevin Kolb, Matt Cassel...dare I say...Tim Tebow. Sometimes salaries are not the only reason teams let guys like these go to other teams.

I live in Charlotte North Carolina and got to see Matt Moore up close. He really is a decent quarterback. He can win games and makes some good throws as well as being pretty mobile. When he was signed last year I thought great he can probably beat Henne out of a job or atleast push him. Well he was never given the shot and that proved bad for both of them beacuse he lost his 1st couple of games and Henne never got pushed because he was the unquestioned starter.

I think Flynn will be good for Miami only because he has been in the system before. He will not need to learn some new offense. The only hiccup will be our receivers learning the new plays. That will take some time.

If we were to lose out on Flynn I think we have another option to compete with Matt Moore. The west coast offense is about routes and check downs with maybe 3 or 4 deep balls which is why Brandon Marshall may been a non factor. There is a little free agent, former 1st rounder who is considered Captain Check Down. His name is Matt Leinart and he can be had real cheap. I'm not sure what happened in Arizona because his preseason was way better than Derek Anderson and you see how that ended up and he was not going to replace Matt Schaub because he was brought in as a back up similar to Moore and had no chance to compete for it.

I think we have some options and I don't think we need to panic about not getting Manning. I know we want to win now, but I'm pretty sure we can turn it around pretty quickly but it will take maybe half of this season before we start to see real progress. There will be a new offensive and defensive scheme that will need to be learned before they start to gel.

GO Dolphins


Yes his contract offer must be structured in such a way that it rewards him if he plays well rather than providing a lot of money up front. Surely this is obvious to the dolphins?

However, its pretty hard a for QB to show what they can do without some good receivers to throw to. In that case the obvious thing to do is to get rid of our pro bowl receiver without really bothering to replace him.

we are gonna need a receivers too now that Marshall gone, 2 games doesn't make a Flynn a great player , but Philbin does have the inside scoop on Flynn.I would be torn on using the 8th pick on a wr or qb, when they got rid of Marshall that created another hole, and we still need a pass rusher big time

In response to Corners.

Matt Moore was not given a fair shake. He needed a few games to learn his players. He started winning and yes he had some fumbling issues, I'll give you that much. But he did beat the Jets and we were beating the Patriots unitl they came back at the end.

I still feel that there was real progress all around with the offense. I'm not saying that Moore is the "franchise quarterback" that we are looking for, but I feel that he should atleast be put in a position to compete for it. If he isn't he will lose that competition. Fair is fair.

One last note. When Bledsoe got injured and Brady took over, he didn't exactly blow anyone away. They won a lot of close games. It took a few years of him being the starter before he was terrorizing the league. I'm just saying give Moore a shot to compete. I think he has more than done enough to deserve that much.

Go Phins!

Manning wil be out of the picture when Ross or Ireland officially say so.

Not a Dolphin "source" or sportswriter/or/TV talking head.

Flynn's contract s/be with incentives only and make him compete. Don't hand him the keys like they did with Henne.

Seriously consider getting Vince Young before he's off the market. He's better than Flynn or Moore.

I agree with ESPN. Never underestimate the power of a wife's influence in decisions that affect the family.

Manning's wife will have more to do with where he signs. She's from Tennessee so that gives the Titans the advantage. Second home in Miami, maybe a factor.

ROSS's money won't be a factor if the wife just wants to be closer to family.

Philbin and Sherman were selected as our HC and OC. This was done for a reason. Their system is going to be our reality for the next 3-5 years, at least. The only mission should be build an offensive unit that will thrive in that system. Period, the end.

Look at GB the past 4 seasons and you see that their O-line has been inconsistent at best. But they advance with quick drops, precise route running, strong TE play and a QB who can scramble to extend plays.

Their QB (Rodgeres) is thriving but he didn't start right away. He learned the system and honed his skills. None of their receivers are Top 15 in the league. None of their running backs are Top 15 in the league. BUT the QB runs the SYSTEM and as a team they score a lot of points.

Their OC has been Philbin, that is why the Fins selected him. Let's give him, Sherman and Flynn a chance.

You can bet that Philbin has told Ireland to look for a QB with quick feet and accuracy in the Draft.

So, based upon my last post....IF we all get behind this new O System....

What are the options here for the offense?

1) We can stay with Moore but we still need to see if he can thrive in this system. We still need a solid back up. Who will that be?

2) We can wait for the draft and hope to get Tannehill. But it seems to me that Cleveland wants him and they have #4 pick. Pretty risky to wait on him. It would cost a ton for us to jump to number three. That wouldn't make sense.

3) We can wait for another QB in the draft, maybe Weeden. But this sounds more and more like Henne and others we tried to get as a 'bargain.'

4)Seems to me like Flynn is our best bet NOW. We should lock him up and let him come in. By the end of camp everyone will know if he or Moore should start.

This allows the team to focus itself on DE/OLB, WR (should be looking at adding 2), RT and TE. If we land Flynn now we can still look for value in FA and then turn to the draft.

Yeah, I remember Archie back in the days with the Saints. Never had a chance. That's where Peyton was born, btw.

QB's who didn't start right away but got the chance and eventually flopped:

Scott Mitchell
Kevin Kolb
AJ Feely
Chad Henne
just to name a few....

QB's who didn't start right away but got the chance and eventually thrived.

Steve Young
Aaron Rodgers
Brett Farve
Tom Brady
just to name a few....

The QB game is a guessing game. We have nothing to lose...everyone has to take the risk at QB. At least we have Philbin's knowledge of Flynn.

IF Philbin is behind Flynn....I'm "all in"

I don't mind if Philbin wants to bring in Flynn. I just don't want Manning (has-been) or Tannehill (never-will-be). You all can argue back and forth about Moore and how many wins, but he was the 12th-highest rated qb in the NFL last year. Higher than Dalton, higher than Cam Newton. And it wasn't because the rest of our team was so great, cause it sucked. Marshall dropped half the TDs thrown to him, and the o-line was bad.

So that is what Moore could do coming in during training camp, to a dysfunctional team with bad protection, and taking over as starter at 0-4. Maybe Moore can't get any better, or maybe he can. If we don't take a chance and find out, then we really do have stupid guys running the show. It seems like he could be top-10, with a better scheme and decent protection. Bring Flynn on board, if he isn't scared to compete, and let them fight for it.

Well the people that are saying that mia CRAPY recored is all on there QB are morons!! Sea has T JACK and he did less then henne and got a better recored. Its time to look at your whole team why do u think they where happy to see marshal go for some mid round draft picks. Come on man!!!

hopefully,this will be irelands last year and we can get our beloved dolphins back.

Open Letter to Mr. Stephen M. Ross:

My Dearest Mr. Ross,

As a longtime fan of the Miami Dolphins, I must admit, you had me scared there for a minute. At the start of free agency 2012, I felt as if I were in the Twilight Zone. I didn't know what the team was thinking. However, now that I've figured it out, I have to say, it's PURE GENIUS. I would like to commend you on your foresight sir.

In these stressful, busy times, what is everyone looking for? A getaway! Getaway from the hustle and bustle of everyday life (work, kids, traffic, etc.). People go far and wide looking for a peaceful destination (the Caribbean, Australia, Polynesia, etc.).

Who can afford those lush vacations? Not many people. Therefore, what if you made a quiet, tranquil paradise...RIGHT IN THE BACKYARD OF A LARGE AMERICAN CITY. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you...the NEW Dolphins Stadium. Yes, only a few miles from the busy streets of Miami, you can come and enjoy a sparse atmosphere (think Montana), where the quiet will rival a library. Where you can bring the whole family, and have room to spread out as far as the eyes can see. It will be rare to see another human face. And talk about wide open, unused spaces. I present...THE ENDZONE. Feel the grass, UNTOUCHED! Barely a footprint (which wouldn't be of a player, at least not a Dolphins player, might be the opposing team's footprint, or possibly just the field crew).

I'm all with it Mr. Ross. Your real estate genius is shining through. This isn't an enterprise to bring quality football to Miami, this is an attempt to turn Dolphins Stadium into Phucket, Indonesia. Where you can actually hear yourself think.

I want you to know Mr. Ross, there will be detractors. However, I will try to act as your emissary, at least here on this blog. I will try and persuade folks that this is the best we can hope for. If we can't have a professional football team, at least we can have a peaceful location to get away from it all, and relieve the stress of modern living.

Three cheers to you Sir. Now that I'm keen to your ultimate goal, I have to say, it's an EXCITING time to be a Miami Dolphins fan.

Yours Truly,
DC Dolfan

Manning was never coming here.

Manning is not coming because he won't have the talent around him (whether they traded BM or not) to win within his 2-3 yr window--period--Sign Flynn for a reasonable sum and include an out-clause after year 1 or 2--Moore will be here this year if Flynn falters.....and draft Tannehill in addition, to develop for a few years, and start him or trade him if Flynn is good--the way, uh, good teams actually do it.

If anybody knows Flynn's skill set it would be Philbin?....get his take and then make the move or not....

Manning is the Past, Flynn is the Present. Let's go on.

Aaaaw! Woook at widdle Fwynn! He's so cute and widddle.

Now the Flynn circus begins. What a team, mon dieu ! What a team ! Geez !
Philbin's arrival has not changed the pathetic face of this team, whether because he's also incompetent or because Ireland-Ross tandem pull the strings. No difference at the end. The second part of last season gave some hope, not anymore. Had the Dolphins finished 2-14, we would be talking of another level: Franchise QB ensured, focusing in WR's, OL, secondary, next season. But, nope, the Dolphins are plunged in a nightmarish labyrinth started by Ross stupidity of landing, first Fisher, then Mannig, now Flynn might be gone.
What a team, what a team. Morons never learn from their mistakes !
The signal send to Moore is clear: yes you maybe played well at the end of the season, but still you're garbage, you don't worth the starting roll. I can imagine how he feels. This team has no respect whatsoever, neither for the players, nor for the fans.
This team is not for weak stomachs, the perfect emetic.

DC:

1. not funny
2. ur still a tool
3. we'll score plenty of TDs; our coach is Philbin

I tell you, DC, I saw la maqueta(help me out here AmericoCubans), well, the designs of the future Science Museum in Miami, and it's gorgeous, futuristic, outtasite. And right smack in the middle of Downtown.

It will come down to who to the PLAYERS feel is the better leader.
I'm going to assume that Moore & Flynn have similar skill sets and the competition in camp will be very even.
In the end it always comes down to 'who has the locker room and the huddle'.

If the players don't react to Flynn's leadership style and stick with Moore...then we have a QB controversy of epic proportions.

The coaches want one QB...the players want the other.

...stand by folks, this could get ugly come Aug.

What none of you are saying is that everyone, in all jobs get better when they have 1) competition, and 2) someone behind them who is hungry for their job. I think bringing Flynn in will make both Flynn and Moore better because no matter who gets named the starter there will be competition. Neither will be so anchored that if their perfomance is not up to par they may get benched in favor of the other.You woulod not have this with Manning, he would have been the defacto starter ( rightfully so)and even if he struggled he would never be benched for more than a quarter or so if a game was going bad. Manning would have been band aid at best. The Dolphins need competititon at the Qb position. They also need a young draft pick to groom and evntually compete. Don't think for a minute that A. Rodgers didn't know Flynn was backing him up. Not saying that he would have been benched but he played through nicks and minor injuries. Remember Drew Bledose, he was the NE qb that got hurt and never got his job back because of a 6th round draft pick named Tom Brady.

Bro, is Miami growing or what!

JPAO, close, but guys like you don't get it re Henne. Look at Steve Young's stats after 3 years. It's too early to put Henne in the flop category. I keep telling you guys. You will see.

I feel sorry for Pricemaster (now known as Loadmaster) because he had to swallow all of your loads. Pricemaster *should* have been correct. The Fins *should* have kept Henne.

Well! ECH makes sense.

Henne might thrive, somewhere else. We don't want him here.

The focus for the Dolphins should be on getting Matt Moore some support. He is the provin commodity on a not so good team with a poor offensive line (30th in the NFL). Stephen Ross is a billionaire and when someone with his money speaks, writes the pay checks, everyone listens. Ross created this desperation. If the Dolphins had focused on supporting their current starter in free agency instead of chasing Peyton Manning they would be better off.

Henne may have had some good moments with Miami, but I did not trust him with the game on the line....period.

DC Dolfan,

I told you last October that Miami seems a vacation town with so many distractions...having been there numerous times for games and vacation with my family..I think it intrinsically is a town where there is so much fluff, etc etc that this is not becoming a football town anymore like it was in the 70's and 80's with good ol Don Shula..

On the good side, I like keeping Paul solai and some additions to the D so far, but we still need a QB, I mean Matt MOORE is??? We have improved our line, it appears, a little..but Eric Winston coming here may be a reach.

If we cant compete this year for a Wild CARD with a relatively easy sched..How much more crap do we have to endure??

Joe Philbin being an offensive mind has to add up to something..I just hope this is not a trial and error year for him..US FANS want playoffs any way we can get it..I think!

Growing impatient in MD/ FINS FAN

There are some Club/Bars now in the periphery of Downtown Miami that make you feel as if you are in a Brooklyn joint.

Moore is not the answer for this team. He is a good BACK UP at best. Henne would have beat him out last year and would have given this team more wins had he not got hurt. Flynn has potential. He has won a National Championship, and he was given the time to learn how to be an NFL QB without the fans bashing him at every bad throw. This is such a win now league and personally I think a lot of good QB's never make it because there is no time to develope. Systems also play a major role. As for Tannehill, being from Texas I watched a lot of him and RGIII, Tannehill toasted him when they played. RG is a better athlete, Tannehill is a beter QB. Last year head to head, Baylor 28, A&M 55...RGIII Stats 28-40-1, yd per comp 15.3, 3 TD passes....Tannehill 25-38-1, yd per comp 16.6, 6 TD passes.

I was a strong advocate of signing Manning, but the more I thought about it the more it didnt make any sense to sign him. He's old and might give you 2 years at best, he's not mobile in the pocket and he probably would of end up crushed and injured again.

Good riddance Manning, your best days are behind you!

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 20 21 »

The comments to this entry are closed.