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Getting Flynn at right price as important as getting him

The question today is apparently not whether the Dolphins will try to sign Matt Flynn. It seems if the team gets a chance to sign the Green Bay free agent backup quarterback, that is exactly what will happen.

No, the question I believe more important is not whether the Dolphins will try to sign Flynn but how they'll try to sign Flynn. It's a completely different issue and definitely as important an issue.

Flynn, according to a reliable source, will be in town sometime late tonight. He'll be here, assuming he doesn't get blown away by the Seattle Seahawks and simply jumps at the opportunity. But once he arrives, then what?

What to do with Flynn?

Do the Dolphins commit to Flynn as their starter or do they commit to him as, ahem, a quarterback who will come to camp and compete with Matt Moore for the starting job. In other words, do the Dolphins commit starting quarterback money or do they commit the kind of money a player who has a chance to start but isn't certain of that typically gets?

If the Dolphins are committing to Flynn as their starter, they may have to spend between $7-$9 million per season. The deal would probably extend past two years and there would be a chunky bag of guaranteed money included.

The lesser commitment is obviously cheaper -- probably $4-$5 million per year with incentive clauses that would hike the deal's worth if Flynn wins the starting job, thus deserving more money. This kind of deal protects the team if he fails.

Me?

Flynn is worth one but definitely not the other. He is a value if signing a deal that protects the team in case he's more A.J. Feeley than Drew Brees. He still gets paid if he becomes a star. But he has to earn his money rather than getting it the minute he walks in the locker room.

Makes sense, right?

The problem is Flynn wants to maximize his earning. He will want the biggest deal he can get, certainly his agent will want that. And because he's got two quarterback-hungry teams talking to him, he might be able to leverage one versus the other to get what he wants.

(Personally, I don't see the Seahawks letting themselves be held up. They paid Travaris Jackson a two-year deal worth $8 million last season. I assume if they offer Flynn, it'll be a similar deal and ask him to fight for the starting job. I say this because you must remember Flynn was not Seattle's top QB choice this offseason. They actually scheduled Chad Henne to come to town before Flynn. Henne never made it because he signed with Jacksonville.)

Well, the Dolphins can similarly make the case that Flynn is not their top choice. At least I hope they make that case. Everyone knows they wanted Peyton Manning. And I assume they aren't going to use the money on Flynn that they would have used on Manning.

At least I hope not because that's just dumb.

I guess what I'm asking is for the Dolphins to hold their desperation in check. Getting Flynn simply isn't like getting Manning. We don't even know if he's any good.

With Flynn it's not just about getting him to come. As a relatively unproven player, he has to come at the right price -- for the team.

Follow me on twitter please.

Comments

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..I'm done with you.

Posted by: Craig M | March 16, 2012 at 12:12 PM

Wishful thinking he'd say this to every blogger!

Ozkar, you're the luck one!

I'm out for lunch and to get some work done...

Phins78, we're going to leave up to you to fight with some of these characters....cheers!

Craig, don't give in. I will proudly continue to tell you that Henne has been judged too quickly. He's still younger than one of the college QBs some of you want to draft, yet he's thrown 40 NFL TDs already and had about 10 350 yard games and 1 440 yard game, in which is was 1/2 of the breaking of the all time record for yards in a game, along with Brady.

I don't promise it, but Henne is 27 and it is very possible he will go on to have a great career.

He's certainly been much, much better than Steve Yound and Eli Manning were their first 3 years. That can't be denied.

And he did this playing for Sparano in the Dolphins' garbage organization!!!!

Please try to pay attention. Read between the lines.

Phins78, wasn't in the debate but this is what I had to say and it's based on my 25 years experience in middle and upper management. You can take it or leave it.


Since I'm on the subject, I want to enlighten some of those folks who don't blame Ireland for 2008, 2009 and 2010 because they still think Parcells who made ALL OF THE DECISIONS.

Do you really think a senior manager (Parcells in this case) would hire another junior manager (Ireland)and do all the work for him? No, that's not how it works. You (Parcells) does most of the work in the beginning and as the employee learns the job, you give him more responsibility....you let him do his job. Add to the the fact that that is was a given that Parcells wasn't a permanent fixture in Miami and wanted Ireland to stand on his own two feet. So, unless Parcells was hopelessly insane, Ireland had more to do with personnel than some of you think.

Posted by: cocoajoe | March 15, 2012 at 07:20 PM

Captain,
Another one less person I need to worry about talking to today too. Written apology in the mail to you also.

Posted by: Craig M | March 16, 2012 at 12:14 PM

With your attitude and arrogance, I'm not surprised I'm not the only person to tell you what a schm*ck you come off as. Another one off the boards for you! LOL

Jerk, Smug, Pompus, Arrogant, not too mention the ever obvious DUMB. That's you!

Thanks for validating!

Dave... you are right i would take those Jay fiedler years as well, what I meant earlier was that comparing Fiedler to Flynn was an unfair knock on Fiedler.Flynn will never be a starting caliber QB.

Kinda funny.

Listening to Brandon Marshall about what he learned from coach Sparano...it's not about the destination, it's about the journey.

Sounds like Sparanos philosophy on the field.

It never was about that final destination, otherwise known as the endzone.

Chad Henne has played his entire career with Tony Sparano as his coach. We all agree that Sparano sucked.

But why can't most of you take it to the logical conclusion: it's impossible to judge Henne. He has played only for Sparano!!!

I'm NOT guaranteeing that he will be great. I'm saying he's 27 years old and we simply don't know. He has the tools. He's thrown for 350 yards 12 or 13 times, and 450 yards one time, all of this while Sparano was his coach.

Now, next year won't be fair to him either, as Jax has NO (none) WRs, at all, and they are even worse than us.

But you guys who think you know that Henne sucks, after about 2 full years, just don't know that.

He's 27.

I tell you again to look up Steve Young's stats and winn-loss record his first 3 years with the Bucs.

The issue isn't Henne or Roth or Langford or White or Turner or Crowder etc.

This issue is high draft picks leave this team and we get nothing in return, over and over and over.

The organice talent that we paid for and developed is gone and we end up starting 6 acorns last season; this one will be worse.

If this were a corporation it would mean all of the college grads brought on board with signing bonuses to take future manager roles have all left the company after a couple years. Company presidents get fired when that happens that is why is almost never happens.
In fact this is the only division in Ross's whole business empire where this happens.

Hypothetically,

If the draft plays out like Mel Kiper has it like this but I will make a change just for hypothetical purposes. This was Kiper's picks before FA started.

1. Indianapolis - Andrew Luck QB. Obvious!

2. Washington - Robert Griffin QB. Obvious!

3. Minnesota - Matt Kalil OT. Could be Blackmon but Kalil is viewed as Joe Thomas, Jake Long type.

4. Cleveland - Justin Blackmon WR. Cleveland could go Richardson but seriously doubt they target Tannehill.

5. Tampa Bay - Trent Richardson RB. Schiano loves to have balance but loves the run even more. Does he trust the limited LeGarret Blount or does he envision a stud like Richardson in the mold of Ray Rice he had at Rutgers, makes sense.

6. St. Louis - Morris Claiborne CB. This is where FA has changed this pick to me. Cortland Finnegan just got $50 M contract. Sure they could double up but the Rams have too many holes and need to get Bradford help both in receivers and blocking. So change the pick to Riley Reiff OT.

7. Jacksonville - Quentin Coples DE. The Jaguars may get Michael Floyd and I personally don't see it as a reach but how can you pass on Coples if you are them. They resigned Jeremy Micney but he alone won't solve their awful pass rush. So I agree with this pick as well.

8. Miami - Where would you go? At this point because the Rams Morris Claiborne has slipped to Miami and would be a steal at this point. Michael Floyd is still there and Miami has a hole(s) at WR. Melvin Ingram is still there as well? Or just say the Rams doubled up with Claiborne and it plays out as Kiper originally predicted and Reiff is there and who Miami takes. But what would you do in this scenario?

Moore will not get a fair competition against Flynn if they give Flynn bigger money and its Philbin bringing him in. Flynn will start even though he's worse.

Craig, I know nothing about college ball, NBA for that matter too. But I like doing a bracket just for kicks. I have Baylor beating North Carolina in the final.

I'm hanging in there in my own pool. Would have taken a haircut if Syracuse lost yesterday.

Baylor's PG is Jay Triano's nephew. GO CANADA!!!

Craig, I know nothing about college ball, NBA for that matter too. But I like doing a bracket just for kicks. I have Baylor beating North Carolina in the final.

I'm hanging in there in my own pool. Would have taken a haircut if Syracuse lost yesterday.

Baylor's PG is Jay Triano's nephew. GO CANADA!!!


Craig M ,
I didn't come to the blog to pick a fight.I came to catch up on news and read a little.I think Matt Flynn is the best option for Our current team.Really glad chad henne & brandon marshall are NO LONGER with Our franchise.
I dislike how you assert yourself about Flynn as if you had a crystal ball.Give him a shot.Henne was given three.

MM,

Henne is just terrible. If he didnt get hurt last year we would've gotten Andrew Luck.

Scott Mitchell....Jay Fiedler....Daunte Culpepper...Chad Henne...Matt Moore..Now Maybe Matt Flynn.........Yawn....Who is he going to throw too...Pro Bowler Brandon Marshall....Oops I forgot Little Jeffrey Ireland traded him for a peanut butter sandwich.....

Hey MM,
FedEx has left a message for you.Seems your henne jag jersey wasn't priority mail.I told you to overnight it.You should have listened.

Andy, we can trade #8 for many picks

RoboHenne made Matt Moore look like Joe Montana! LOL

Patience is a virtue, must be positive with the new staff

I need to take a sh*t. Where Henne's mouth

Boys, put your big boy pants on, just because someone doesn't share your opinion doesn't mean that they are wrong. Last I knew, none of us get paid for our opinions on this team. If you get Sirrius radio, listen to the NFL channel sometime. Most of the hosts same the same thing about this team, clueless ownership, no direction, and living on a loooonng past reputation. The number one problem is an owner more interested in profits and his perception than fielding a winning team.

DC,
We can have the best systems in the word but if you don't have the players to execute the systems you got nothing. We don't have the players right now.
Posted by: Craig M | March 16, 2012 at 11:53 AM

This coming from the guy who has claimed for 2 years Miami has most pieces in place. LOL Gotta love it!

Foot, meet mouth! What's wrong? Ireland doesn't taste good anymore?

Someone above said that if Philbin is for it...then "he is all in on Flynn." What if Philbin is just is wrong about Flynn...Just like the coaches were wrong about other "second-hand quaterbacks" in the past for this organization. His ceiling is so low that it's not worth it to spend the little bit of money left on such a limited potential. Suck it up with Moore for one more year, whose not much different from Flynn, and draft either Barkley, Jones, Bray, et. al. in next year's draft. Hopefully, the number of teams needing QBs is less than this year and Miami will have the pick of the litter.

Andy, interesting draft scenario and in that case, you have to go Clairborne. Not a GIGANTIC need but it's a top 5 talent. You can't let it slip - move Sean Smith to safety.

If not Claiborne and you haven't signed Matt Flynn than it should be tannehill unless you go Weeden in round 2.

If not Claiborne or Tannehill, then who? Hopefully Michael Floyd - I always liked this guy and he has the complete package and fills a huge need.

Andy -- If we sign Flynn this is how I would pick.

With Morris being there I am sure the phone will be ringing off the hook for Miami. I trade down but if I can't get a trade I like then I take BPA and he's an elite CB and we have to take him. It is hard to pass up an elite player.

I doubt very seriously it plays out that way. But we've seen stranger things on draft day.

I don't see Ingram like most folks. I see him as more a late first round pick. I like Mercilus more than Ingram.

And Floyd is a reach too but you're right, we did creat a huge hole when we traded Marshall.

Ross pay a lot of money for the Dolphins

Phil, interesting point, maybe Miami's strategy all along was to wait for everyone else to fill out their QB position so they can get their pick of the litter. Haha, brilliant!!!

Jaquar fans better hope Gabbert doesnt get injured!

Ross pay a lot of money for the Dolphins

Captain Obvious you stated that Washington found a way to sign 4 big contracts even though they were strapped against the cap right?

Your point was that Miami should be able to do the same right? Because if Wash can do it why can't our guys do it correct?

My point was that signing big name free agents doesn't guarantee a winner But I didn't read your original argument so misunderstood the content of the first post written by you that I happened to read.

Everything was just lost in translation (we were both making points the other didn't understand) because your original assessment of Washingtons cap problems and how they worked around it had more to do with Miami being able to do the same and bring in a guy like Winston as well as some others. I understand you didn't mean Miami should just go and sign a bunch of big free agent names because that's how Washington and Dallas do it. You were simply saying that it can be done.

And having not read the first part of your debate with the other poster (I started at page 4) I missed out on your original point thereby misconstruing your counter.

See how nice I made that? I understand where my mistake was but not because you were condescending but because I went back and looked at the whole conversation which is what I should have done in the first place. My bad. Thanks for your patience,,(pfffffffffftttt :)

Anyone on here saying Matt Flynn sucks is just using their own short sighted, stubborn, biased opinion to make those statements. There is nothing about him that you can say he sucks. Stop using the biased reasoning he played crap defenses and all that non-sense. Admit that when given the opportunity he has taken full advantage of his opportunities.

There is no proof that he sucks. 7th rounder? Nope not a good enough reason either. I can make an All Pro team out of late rounders and undrafted FAs

ScoutsInc rated all of this years FA QB's.
Henne was rated 4th with a score of 73.
Flynn was rated 9th with a score of 64 (below average).

If Philbin has indicated that Flynn is a legit QB, which I'm assuming he has because Flynn's coming for a visit, then they need to pay Flynn what it takes. Reason being is that Ross and Ireland have committed to Philbin and whoever the QB ends up being, if he doesn't pan out, Philbin will be out the door along with the QB.

So in the end this is just another 3 year experiment by the Fins to hopelessly find a coach/QB combo.

Phins78, we're going to leave up to you to fight with some of these characters....cheers!

Posted by: Craig M | March 16, 2012 at 12:16 PM

You guys on the same bowling team or something? Tag teaming other bloggers to surpress intellect & promote stupidity?

Speak for yourself big mouth! Most of us want nothing to do with you!

Phins78, we're going to leave up to you to fight with some of these characters....cheers!

Posted by: Craig M | March 16, 2012 at 12:16 PM

You guys on the same bowling team or something? Tag teaming other bloggers to surpress intellect & promote stupidity?

Speak for yourself big mouth! Most of us want nothing to do with you!

The WCO sucks, I want to see 50 yard bombs down the field, not dink and dunk 3 step drops. Whay are some of you so excited about the WCO?

The WCO sucks, I want to see 50 yard bombs down the field, not dink and dunk 3 step drops. Whay are some of you so excited about the WCO?

Here is what bothers me regarding the debate on Manning/Flynn/draft.

I believe Flynn was Philbin's "plan A".

I believe Manning was forced into the "plan A" position for the Phin's by Ross, making Flynn "plan B".

I think it will be shame, from a fan's perspective, if the only reason the new coach doesn't even get a visit with his choice is due to the fact the owner made the team wait on Manning.

Even if they were to bring in Flynn and decided he wanted too much money, at least the coach gets his shot at who he wants.

Henne will prove how good he is when now the job is not handed to him without earning it first, which he will not beat out gabbert anyway!

First of all, we probably dodged a bullet with Peyton Manning. I don't think Philbin was all in on Peyton, it was Ross with stars in his eyes.

We hired Philbin and Sherman to instill the "Green Bay Way" of doing business. LET THEM DO IT!

If Flynn will sign a reasonable contract to come in and compete with Moore, sign him. If not, screw him. Either way, draft Tannehill and give him a year to develop.

So year 1, we have Flynn as a starter with Moore as a good back up (or vise versa). If Flynn turns out to be a star, our QB issue is solved. If not, give Tannehill a chance to be a star in year 2.

This scenario gives us the best chance to FINALLY find our franchise QB. Just do it!

We got a case of the 2 times with recent posts lol

I think renew the team it is not necessary better up grade in some areas

If anyone thought the Miami "lack of brain trust" management were ever in serious contention on Manning, then please call your local clinic and get treatment ASAP....Ross & Ireland are the new version of Dumb and Dumber.....
Flynn is very high risk even less experience that Bills Fitzpatrick who proved to be a bust...Dolphins need to finally be smart, ummmmmm that may be difficult and just keep Matt Moore, try and get Tannerhill and let Philbin coach.....and oh yeah, Ross and Ireland should exit.

Andy,

That's about how I have the picks going as well. I have the Browns taking Richardson, the Bucs taking Claiborne and the Rams taking Blackmon. I have us trying to trading up to get Blackmon and naive, as I am, that's what I see Ireland trying to do. Nothing in his history suggests this to be the case but he's got a big hole with Marshall gone that he needs to fill. Failing that, I have them dropping down a bit and grabbing Floyd. Originally I had them taking Ingram but I think that's all off now with the Marshall trade. When I look at twhat they are trying to do in FA, it looks like they are trying to improve pass rush.

I think you could play Seattle and KC off of each other for Tannehill. I keep hearing the media hyping 'the Dolphins will want to trade up if they want Tannehill'. Not buying it. I think the Browns will stick with McCoy for now and try add help in the draft for him.

I have been reading all these negative opinions on Matt Flynn. They say he's going to suck arse! I love reading the ones that don't like him because they will come up with ANY negative reference they can to compare him to.

The truth to me is no one knows more than Philbin about this guy. Philbin has coached some very good QB's in his lifetime. I watch a lot of football. So much so my wife says one days she's going to have an intervention. BUT I have seen very little of Flynn. I have seen just as much as the rest of you.

We will know if Philbin likes him or not pretty soon.

Philbin and Ireland will be fired within 2 years. Only then will we have some hope.

Cocoajoe no one ever said, (at least I didn't say it) that Ireland didn't have anything to do with the draft.

My point, that I have made over and over, is that Jeff Ireland was a gm in training and Parcells overlooked all of his moves.

Now surely being in business as long as you have you would never let a first year employee make final decisions that were going to directly effect YOUR job right?

So my point, which I have been solid on throughout this thing, is that we can not blame Jeff Ireland alone for those three drafts. Parcells was the man who was in charge and he had final say. I would say 75% of the whole thing is his fault because he hired Jeff to begin with, and then was in charge of training him.

But other posters say things like "Ireland drafted Pat White, HUGE MISTAKE" when the facts are Parcells not only drafted Pat White but personally scouted him. There is a rumor that Ireland fought him on it but we will never know the truth. Point is Parcells drafted him, admitted he was the one who scouted him, admitted he was the one who made the mistake, yet people still want to blame Irleand.

That's all cocoa. I'm all for bashing people but the thing about me is I'm all about what is fair. Fair is fair, people can't blame Ireland for Parcells mistake or mistakes. At least give the two equal credit because Parcells was sitting at every draft whispering in Irelands ear right before he picked up the phone. I say 75% Parcells but people at least have to give him 50% of the blame.

Clue,

I think the WCO is dink and dunk and then bomb when the other team isn't ready.

I do think some bombs are supposed to get mixed in, I'm not positive on that though.

Phil,

I have been saying that all along. If Philbin is in on Flynn then so am I. You are right and Philbin could be wrong but in that case we will have a new coach in 2 to 3 years anyway. Philbin has 1 shot as a rookie HC at 50 years old to get this right. If he says Flynn isn't worth it then I am with that too. We will know Flynn'a worth soon enough.

I don't think Flynn is worth a big contract right away he doesn't have the body of work that says so. However, it's all Philbins call on this one. He can say yeah I like Flynn and he is ready to be a starter and be a very good or he can say I like Flynn and want to see if he continues to develop and let him compete with Moore. Either way at least it's giving Philbin options.

A few random thoughts:

- At least Manning had the professional curtesy to let us know that we were no longer in it. Thanks for that Peyton.

-If we appear like losers yet again by this latest snub, It was because Ross set us up for failure. Thank you for that Steven!

-I want Flynn, but I want a bargain deal worked out that protects the Dolphins. We need to convince him to come here for less money- but a greater chance for success than with Seattle.

-Finally, I think Chad Henne is the BEST QB in the league...

...for me to POOP on!

Is there anyone in here seriously who believes that if Tannehill is available at number 7 that Jax will not either draft him and offer 1 of thier QB's for trade or offer to trade the pick?
Oakland/Seattle are at least 2 teams still looking.

And by the way, if Flynn and Tannehill both turn out to be stars, THAT'S A GOOD PROBLEM to have!

Part of the Green Bay Way is you ALWAYS draft a QB, every year. You're always searching for talent at the premiere position.

Draft and develop QB talent continuously. Trade exta QBs for more draft picks. More picks = more talent = more CHAMPIONSHIPS!

Texas,

I'm not one to say he's going to 'suck' or anything like that because quite honestly I have no clue but I see it as 'we need to add a QB, so let's add Flynn'. I don't think it's anything more than that. I don't but the 'Philbin has signed off on this guy' or 'he's familiar with the system' etc....it's a case of supply and demand and the Dolphins didn't had a need to fill. I've read that there are some in the FO that are 'lukewarm' on this guy (not trying to suggest that means Philbin, by any means). I think he's a guy who COULD work out, nothing more than that. My only issue with the whole thing is if we suck this year and go 4-12 what do we do next year? That probably doesn't get us Barkley but I don't want us not drafting a QB because we commited to this guy for 4 years.

Philbin = Cam Cameron

Flynn = A.J. Feeley

Cocoajoe, to add on a bit, I hate Parcells and can't for the life of me figure out why Dolphins fans and the media give him a pass and blame Ireland as if he was lumbering over Parcells like some washed up know nothing relic from the past.

That was Parcells passing on Ryan and taking Long right? It was Irelands first year are we really to believe that upper management was letting a trainee make the call on a multi million dollar deal?

That was Parcells taking Henne because "the cost wasn't quite so high".

And that was Parcells using another high draft pick on Pat White, another QB bust. That makes two qb busts in three years, both directly Parcells decisions.

Anything Ireland has missed on in now way comes close to setting us back as those three wasted picks did. Those are on Parcells, he is the one I blame for floundering this franchise.

ANNNDDDDDD He stole our f***ing money!!!! Didn't fulfill his contract because it wasn't working out the way he planned and he skipped town WITH THE MONEY! How is this bloated pompous piece of garbage getting away with this?

TheSMF,

No way do I see Jacksonville drafting a QB at 7. Too many other needs. I would say they draft pass rush first (maybe Ingram, maybe Coples) but I could also see them trading down if a team like Seattle wanted to jump ahead of us and take Tannehill. I think they will commit to Gabbert and Henne for the next two years.

Don't worry about the two post thing Captain, happens to everyone. I knew that was you! :)

I'm confident Irescum can find us another Pat White.

Agreed with Phins78 regarding Parcells.

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