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Getting Flynn at right price as important as getting him

The question today is apparently not whether the Dolphins will try to sign Matt Flynn. It seems if the team gets a chance to sign the Green Bay free agent backup quarterback, that is exactly what will happen.

No, the question I believe more important is not whether the Dolphins will try to sign Flynn but how they'll try to sign Flynn. It's a completely different issue and definitely as important an issue.

Flynn, according to a reliable source, will be in town sometime late tonight. He'll be here, assuming he doesn't get blown away by the Seattle Seahawks and simply jumps at the opportunity. But once he arrives, then what?

What to do with Flynn?

Do the Dolphins commit to Flynn as their starter or do they commit to him as, ahem, a quarterback who will come to camp and compete with Matt Moore for the starting job. In other words, do the Dolphins commit starting quarterback money or do they commit the kind of money a player who has a chance to start but isn't certain of that typically gets?

If the Dolphins are committing to Flynn as their starter, they may have to spend between $7-$9 million per season. The deal would probably extend past two years and there would be a chunky bag of guaranteed money included.

The lesser commitment is obviously cheaper -- probably $4-$5 million per year with incentive clauses that would hike the deal's worth if Flynn wins the starting job, thus deserving more money. This kind of deal protects the team if he fails.

Me?

Flynn is worth one but definitely not the other. He is a value if signing a deal that protects the team in case he's more A.J. Feeley than Drew Brees. He still gets paid if he becomes a star. But he has to earn his money rather than getting it the minute he walks in the locker room.

Makes sense, right?

The problem is Flynn wants to maximize his earning. He will want the biggest deal he can get, certainly his agent will want that. And because he's got two quarterback-hungry teams talking to him, he might be able to leverage one versus the other to get what he wants.

(Personally, I don't see the Seahawks letting themselves be held up. They paid Travaris Jackson a two-year deal worth $8 million last season. I assume if they offer Flynn, it'll be a similar deal and ask him to fight for the starting job. I say this because you must remember Flynn was not Seattle's top QB choice this offseason. They actually scheduled Chad Henne to come to town before Flynn. Henne never made it because he signed with Jacksonville.)

Well, the Dolphins can similarly make the case that Flynn is not their top choice. At least I hope they make that case. Everyone knows they wanted Peyton Manning. And I assume they aren't going to use the money on Flynn that they would have used on Manning.

At least I hope not because that's just dumb.

I guess what I'm asking is for the Dolphins to hold their desperation in check. Getting Flynn simply isn't like getting Manning. We don't even know if he's any good.

With Flynn it's not just about getting him to come. As a relatively unproven player, he has to come at the right price -- for the team.

Follow me on twitter please.

Comments

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Craig,

The only reason I didn't change Kiper's Richardson to Tampa pick and put Claiborne is because they just signed Eric Wright to a pretty ridiculously bad contract and like the Rams they could double up but they have many more holes to fill. LeGarrete Blount isn't horrible but he is certainly not a discipline player by all accounts and Schiano is all about discipline so I see him being out of Tampa fairly quick.

Rest of the guys,

I agree if Claiborne is there you take him but outsie of that I guess I see it being a trade down scenario but none of Miami's holes can be filled at this point unless they don't get Flynn and go Tannehill. Ingram does fill a need but don't see Ireland going for him because he is from the Parcell's proto-type school of 6'4 250 for OLB and assuming it's a 4-3 a 6'4 255-265 guy and Ingram is 6'1 265 lbs. So Miami trades back and drafts a linemen like DeCastro, Jonathan Martin or Cordy Glenn in mid round 1.

The BIGGEST problem with the Dolphins is and will continue to be Stephen Ross. He needs to either find a buyer for the fins or disappear and let the "football people" run the show. I read today that Ross Was involved in the Manning negotiations. At least we know why Manning quickly chose not to come here.

Philbin=Shula
Flynn=Montana

F**k me I hate those posts!

Ross is desperate to sell seats and stop the financial bleeding. Thats the only reason he begged Manning to come here. But he's now staring at another season of empty stadium. Serves him right for running this team into the ground.

Guys,

Why am i the only who thinks Blackmon will be available to us at 8?

Colts - Luck
Redskins - RGIII
Vikings - Kalil
Browns - Richardson (I've heard Holmgren doesn't like taking Wideouts early)
Buccs - Claibourne
Rams - Reiff (Not sure the Rams would grab Blackmon if Steve Smith and Manningham signs)
Jags - Coples/Ingram
Dolphins - Blackmon?

I could see this situation playing out but would we pick Blackmon...?

Thanks Northwest! I would think everyone would ya know? Sheesh

I would not trade up for Tannehill. Someone ahead of us picks him then fine, we take Weeden in round 2 and take whichever player falls out of the top 7.

Personally, I don't take a qb at all if we sign matt Flynn. If you're going to sign him, then give him a proper shot. No other qbs added until next year.

mark knowing this front office they would pass on him

Craig, I agree, I have seen very little so have no opinion one way or another on Flynn.

Even if they are very high on Flynn they have to come across as "lukewarm" to not create attention to him and raise the price tag.

I am kind of wondering if they are being "lukewarm" about Tannehill as well so that a team doesn't trade up in front of us to get him.

Of the QB's coming out in the draft I know of I like Cousins and Tannehill.

If we dont get Manning, Ross needs to lower the ticket prices. This team is a terrible on the field product that no one is buying.

Dolphins passed on Moss
Passed on Bryant
They'll pass on Blackmon also...Dolphins are going to trade down for additional picks like recent history shows and blow this draft too

Mark,

That's not a bad mock at all, and I could see Reiff going to St. Louis. Only thing I'm not sure about is what the Jags would do if Blackmon is still there. I know they just signed Robinson but they had nobody last year catching the ball. Blackmon strikes me as a rare talent and I could see them grabbing him if he's there to help the young QBs.

Andy, your mock is good and I could see it being pretty accurate. I think we both agree that the Browns won't draft Tannehill and I think they'll either go Richardson or Blackmon. The rest will fall into place from there. You may also be right about Claiborne and the Bucs. I just know it was a big need for them last year.

Andy -- I have to say that I like Mercilus more than I like Ingram. And would take him ahead of Ingram. Yes I know the "one year wonder" argument but if you remember the same was said about Clay Mathews.

Another guy I like a lot is McLellan. Where do you see him going? I see early 2nd round.

Here's a list of all the current NFL starters (Luck and Griffin are included since they seemed guaranteed the job). My take on where Flynn would fit in. Feel free to publish your own opinion, this is just mine:

FLYNN ---
NOT better than...:

Cutler
Stafford
Rogers
Ryan
Newton
Brees
Romo
E.Manning
Vick
R.Griffin
Bradford
Flacco
Dalton
Roethlisberger
Shaub
Luck
Hasselbeck/Locker
Brady
*P.Manning
Rivers


SHOULD be Better than...


Kolb
A.Smith
T.Jackson
McCoy
Gabbert
Fitzpatrick
Moore


Possibly On the fence with...

Freeman
Ponder
Tebow
Cassel

How confident do you feel about our playoff chances with Flynn? Or would a rookie drafted QB suit us better in the long run?

Mark, if that situation played out and the Dolphins didn't take Blackmon - a full fledged riot would break out that would be 1,000 times greater than the Ted Ginn fiasco at the draft party.

That is unless they pick Tannehill without Matt Flynn signed.

"that there are some in the FO that are 'lukewarm' on this guy (not trying to suggest that means Philbin, by any means)."

Craig M,

Most, if not all, local media have reported Flynn was plan B, behind Ross' "ticket magnet" Manning.

As I stated earlier, in my opinion, Flynn was Philbin's plan A. One would think if Ross hired a coach because he liked the plan he laid out for the team's future, he would give that coach the chance to put that plan into motion.

It seems pretty obvious Ross made the team wait until his guy made official what most people already knew.

Is Flynn the answer? Who knows, but it is sad if Philbin loses a shot at his guy, only because the owner made him sit and wait.

Craig,

No way Blackmon makes it to Miami. The only hope is that Cleveland passes on him and in that case Miami trades up with Tampa to jump ahead of St. Louis and Jacksonville. Both teams have signed players but none on Blackmon's level.

Mark @1:16 pm,

Totally agree. For me it's a trade up for Blackmon, or too expensive a trade down for Floyd. Defence seems to be being addressed in FA and I hope they get Anderson. If we get Flynn then we pass on drafting a QB this year and look to WR,S,RT and TE, with WR being the priority for me. If there's no Flynn then I go Weeden end of the first on a trade up.

LLLOOOLLLL.. The saga continues.

I HOPE and PRAY that this freaking backfires on THE SCOUT.

It is reported that the Fins have made a LOW BALL OFFER to Flynn in hoping that Flynn wants so bad to be united with his OC Philbin that he will take it.

I hope that Flynn says FU Ireland and goes somewhere else and takes that team to the Super Bowl.

JEFF THE SCOUT Ireland is just as I said he is.. Nothing more then A SCOUT.

This team and it's owner Deputy Dog and THE SCOUT along with J Lo, Gloria Estefan and Fergie are the laughing stock of ALL Sports.

I can see what Parcells was thinking, drafting Long and Henne together. ( I can hear him now, "Look Jeffery and I'll show you how it's done!") It's genius if it works. Problem being- it didn't work. Then he drafted Pat White. (WildPat?!?) Then he took the money and ran.

So while I'm handing out thanks this morning...Thanks Bill!

Btw, I noticed there are a lot of Tebow advocates here, as am I, but...
sadly...
I agree with the pundits that he won't be coming, as Philbin's system is taking priority in the FO, and Tebow doesn't fit that system at all. Word is FIns simply are not interested, period.

I think he'll be a Jag if Manning goes Denver.
Might even be a 49er.

JS, First off nice list. 2nd, I really don't know where I see Flynn. He could make a whole new list either way. :)

Andy,

As someone stated, if the Rams sign a couple of WRs in FA, then I could see Blackmon not being the priority and them going after a tackle. Seems to be how Fisher likes to think. I just can't see Jacksonville passing on Blackmon if he's there. So maybe we trade with the Rams to get up ahead of Jags to get Blackmon. That would be nice to see.

Anyone on here saying Matt Flynn sucks is just using their own short sighted, stubborn, biased opinion to make those statements. There is nothing about him that you can say he sucks. Stop using the biased reasoning he played crap defenses and all that non-sense. Admit that when given the opportunity he has taken full advantage of his opportunities.

There is no proof that he sucks. 7th rounder? Nope not a good enough reason either.

Posted by: AndyNJ | March 16, 2012 at 12:45 PM

Andy, our own FO, with Philbin who knows him better than ANYBODY, is saying he sucks...because, its reported right now that fins made him a low ball offer.

If you see someone as a potential franchise QB, do you make a low ball offer? I don't think so.

Craig and Andy -- That would be my favorite draft scenario. Trading up to grab Blackmon. And then McLellan in the 2nd.

Trade up late 2nd for Weeden or Cousins if either are there. That last part is more a dream. :)

I read that too Albert and wondered how Ross f***ed it up. He is too stupid for his own good. I hope Peyton writes a book someday and mentions why the Dolphins deal didn't appeal to him because I'm very curious after reading about Ross' involvement.

He reminds of another owner, unfortunately I'm an Islander fan. Charles Wang is the owner and I would swear if he wasn't Chinese he must be Ross' sibling.

What the two of them don't understand and may never get is that they are clueless about the their perspective sports. Sure Ross may no a little about football and Wang about hockey but surely the people who have DEDICATED THEIR WHOLE LIVES TO THE GAME would be better at making decisions regarding coaches and players?!!!

Wang signed his back up goalie as a GM. Ross has a former scout as a GM. Basically the same thing, Snow was able to scout while goaltending, Ireland a scout in Dallas.

Why not hire an experienced GM?

Wang got involved in negotiations for Kovalchuk and killed the deal by being over zealous. Ross got involved in the Peyton and was most likely over zealous.

Why not let your football guys do the negotiating since they speak the same language?

So many comparisons but I'll tell you this, since Wang bought the Islanders they have been in the bottom 3rd of the league and now may have to move to Kansas City in two years.

How far will Ross bring down the Dolphins? Hopefully he will wake up, and IF Ireland craps out on players this year (because if he does good I'm fine with keeping him) you fire him and you hire someone with experience as a VP. Then you tell the VP you want an experienced GM if he can get one and if not you do an extensive search for the best candidate. Do not allow your new guy to bring in "his guy". That's what Parcells did. And then Ross should make himself invisible. I don't care if he signs the checks, this isn't about ego, it's about rebuilding a franchise.

Unfortunately this is the best we can hope for because the Dolphins are worth less than when he bought them and he is NOT selling the team only to lose money. That's not how he became rich. He will need to see that losing money every year on tickets will cost him more in the long run than selling the team. That is another way this can work out for us.

But my gut is that Ross isn't going any where for a long time. He wants to make his mark, has been a huge Dolphins fan his whole life, went to high school in Miami, and is super competitive and has done nothing but lost. He wants to win something and I don't think he's leaving for those reasons. Lets start hoping he "wakes up".

JS in LA,

I could see the Broncos talking to Tebow about a position change if Manning ends up there. Not sure if he'd be open to it or not. I've heard they will trade him if Manning signs there but to who? I owuld have said the Jags before but not now. They are set with Gabbert and Henne. I believe Tebow would sell tickets there but I just don't beieve you trade anything for this guy. Who knows....maybe there's a team that loves him and would give something up for him....Arizona maybe?

DC @ 11:45,
Totally agree with FINALLY having a system...hopefully sticking to it.
Posted by: The Signal | March 16, 2012 at 11:49 AM

_______________________________________________________

This is the key that will open the door to future success and has been a long time coming. I too hope they stick with it.

Texas,

I don't know McClellan. Tell me a bit about him. Thanks.

Ahhh, I see that there are some that are with me on top of the Blackmon wagon. It's about time that people are seeing that the Fins are down to the bottom of the barrel (almost) as far as who's left HIGH caliber wise in FA.

WR Justin Blackmon as I been posting on here for the past 5 months is going to be on the ESPN Sunday night 7:30pm EST highlights every Sunday during the season.

This kid IS the best WR to come out for an extremely long time.

He IS a beast of a kid who can make THAT catch. If the Fins don't move in and grab him look out because the Pats and Rex have him on their radar. If the REX or Pats get Blackmon we are doomed for ANOTHER 15 years.

whatever you say champ!

Another scenario would be that we sign Flynn and then the Seahawks work out a trade with the Rams to move up to 6 and grab Tannehill which would increase our chances of grabbing Blackmon.

I know they play in the same division but you never know. Also,the Rams have openly expressed interest in trading down with whoever would be interested.

Having said all that,WR has to be addressed very,very early in this years draft. If not Blackmon,then Floyd if possible...

No one has said one word about Flynn. The Dolphins are on "lock down" to the media.

We will see very soon tho how it plays out. I have read from Philbin's press conference before "lock down" that he prefers bringing up players from within. Meaning to me he likes building via the draft.

The talk is that the Dolphins are low-balling Flynn....Andy, what's going on? Tell these guys to get it together.

Texas,

I like Mercilus myself. Like you said 1 year wonder but he had a helluva 1 year! He led college football in sacks and forced fumbles. I like him too. I heard on one of the NFL Sirius shows not too long ago that he is being viewed as a mid 1st round to low 20's guy but so was Aldon Smith last year and look how well he played. Mercilus is 6'4 265 lbs and fits the proto-type mold too. I like that pick.

JS I would be most comfortable with Flynn and a drafted prospect. Time to double down on QB, we've done it at most other positions in the past 4 years of off seasons.

It's the Ron Wolf way and I agree with it 100%. QBS are a huge commodity. Look at how much Henne made to be a back up. If you have a few good ones on your team and someone gets desperate you can get some good return. There's always value in QBs. Time to double down! Draft is full of WR's. Sign Flynn and draft Osweiller or Tannehill if you can swing it.

Please people. STOP with the Tebow crap. DO YOU WANT TO WIN or do you want to have a Tebow of a time?

Tebow is NOT, I repeat NOT what the Dolphins need. Tebow WILL fill seats so with THAT people..

Ross doesn't give a rats butt if his team wins as long as he can fill the seats with fans as they watch us lose with Tebow.

The Dolphins are nothing more then a hobby to Ross. He cares more about who he can book to sing Babalou during the pre-game events vs going out and getting this team players who are winners.

As long as Ross and Ireland are here, no players will come.

NYG reported by who? Can you clue us in so we can read it too?

The problem I have is all you guys think that simply placing Flynn on the team turns Miami into Green Bay.

First, that's just not possible.

Second, too many acorns and not enough talent.

Third, it will be years before this team is ready assuming more is the guy. WHY? Because they need to build around him. Can't do that in one year. Plus, who is he to come in and start bosses players around. That takes a few years to get that kind of respect.

Von Schmidt,

I haven't heard that report at all that they made him a low ball offer. And again what's wrong with making him a low ball offer. He only has played that well for 2 games. I never signed off on Flynn as All World but think he can be good with Philbin if Philbin thinks he can win with him.

"It is reported that the Fins have made a LOW BALL OFFER to Flynn in hoping that Flynn wants so bad to be united with his OC Philbin that he will take it."

NYG

Hey seriously, that is some great information and I would love to read the article or blurb. Where did you find that?

Phins78,

PFT,

Report: Dolphins make low-ball offer to Matt Flynn

Posted by Evan Silva on March 16, 2012, 12:58 PM EDT

Reuters
Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports reports that the Miami Dolphins are “low-balling” free agent quarterback Matt Flynn in contract negotiations. The Dolphins’ thinking is apparently that Flynn wants so badly to play for head coach Joe Philbin, his offensive coordinator in Green Bay, that Flynn might be willing to settle for significantly less than market value.

Of course, market value for a quarterback with two career starts is ambiguous. Kevin Kolb signed a reported six-year, $65 million contract with the Cardinals last offseason after seven career starts. And that deal has already been considered for termination.

At the same time, the Dolphins don’t have much leverage. Top free agent target Peyton Manning resisted their overtures, and the quarterback market is otherwise devoid of franchise-caliber signal callers. Flynn is in a better spot, drawing interest from the Seattle Seahawks.

Could the Fins miss out on Peyton Manning, and Matt Flynn, too?

It certainly seems like they’re willing to take that risk.

Von Shmidt where did you read about the low ball offer? Did you see that in NYGs post or do you have an actual reference for us? I'm VERY interested in reading this.

Phins78,

That's what PFT is saying. No direct quotes or anything but that's the talk. I could believe that to be true.

I don't care what anyone says. If Flynn was that good he'd have more offers. At the very least, sign the guy to compete with some other starters in the league. There are a lot more second tier QB's on teams that need some competition. I find it incredible (if he's that good) that only two teams are interested in his services.

I would ride that cushy job out if I were him. Wait for Rogers to break his ankle. Then come in and throw 6 TD's a game every game. Drive my stock up. Get more that two teams interested next time around.

phins78,

Did you see it?

Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports reports that the Miami Dolphins are “low-balling” free agent quarterback Matt Flynn in contract negotiations. The Dolphins’ thinking is apparently that Flynn wants so badly to play for head coach Joe Philbin, his offensive coordinator in Green Bay, that Flynn might be willing to settle for significantly less than market value.

One nice game doesnt mean Flynn is any good.

I told everybody from the begining Matt Flynn wasn't or isn't going to get what everybody thinks he will. Just because teams have a need at Q/B .. doesnt mean they are going to throw everything they got to get a Q/B that only has 2 starts under his belt and was a seventh round pick. And it shows when teams like Jax are willing to give henne 6 million a season who has more starts under his belt and is a more proven player. Matt flynn will be lucky to get 4 million a season .. MARK MY WORDS!

Ross ia a friggin cheapskate. He needs to sell the team before we get out of the cellar.

PFT,

Is always bullcrap to me. They have the stories no one else has. Don't get me wrong ESPN and SI.com and even the NFL network drum up stories too but stories are always leaked for a reason. Maybe Flynn's agent leaked that to get Seattle to drive the price up so Miami has to match. Unless Mort, Schefter, Glazer or Clayton report it then all bets are off.

Matt Moore will be the Dolphins starting QB next year. The Dolphins front office is completely incompetent. How do the Dolphins not have enough cap space to sign a franchise QB? There are zero superstars on the team. Ross said getting Manning was the top offseason priority. He failed again. He failed at getting Harbough and Fisher too. Flynn will sign with Seattle too. As long as Ross owns the team and Ireland is in charge this team will continue to wallow in mediocrity.

5 year $45 mil offer with $18 mil guaranteed over the 1st 3 years, make the last 2 years options. If that's not good enough, walk away.

Moore came to Miami last year on a 2 yr $5 mil contract as a back up. Henne's proven to not be starter material and worth $3.375 mil as a back up . That's a 25% increase over 1 year.

Flynn, as a potential franchise qb in this system, should get about double that. $6 mil per yr. max.

It's a realistic offer. Take it or leave it. You told the world you need a qb, don't low ball. It's embarassing!

I remember scoring 30 points in one game. 3 on offense and 2 on defense. Not one recruiter called me. I guess one game doesn't meant I'm a superstar.

I'm sure everyone has similar days long gone by.

Okay thanks guys. Very interesting. Hope it's not true but in reality maybe we should hope it is.

If they low ball him NYG is right and they don't believe as much in his talent. Therefore we won't get stuck with a large contract.

Of course this is an obvious negotiating ploy, it's textbook. One side says "we want 100 million for 10 years!". The other side says "we only want to pay 2 million a year for 3 years"!. Then they meet in the middle.

If you guys think about it Cole didn't really point anything out that everyone doesn't already know. There is no market set for Flynn, you would be stupid not to low ball him. It has less to do with what they believe he can accomplish and more to do with saving money to possibly sign another free agent like Winston or the FS from Cinci. imo

What is it with these beards and QBs? Flynn reminds me too much of Fitzpatrick with that beard.

Meant to say they don't believe in him OR it's a negotiating ploy. I think it's a negotiating ploy. If they didn't believe in him why would they be trying to sign him. Doesn't make sense.

Look at it this way. If Flynn really wanted to play for Philbin and start right away, he would accept Miami's offer. That tells me the ties that bind are not that strong between Philbin and Flynn.

CHEAP FISH=TROLL

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