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Getting Flynn at right price as important as getting him

The question today is apparently not whether the Dolphins will try to sign Matt Flynn. It seems if the team gets a chance to sign the Green Bay free agent backup quarterback, that is exactly what will happen.

No, the question I believe more important is not whether the Dolphins will try to sign Flynn but how they'll try to sign Flynn. It's a completely different issue and definitely as important an issue.

Flynn, according to a reliable source, will be in town sometime late tonight. He'll be here, assuming he doesn't get blown away by the Seattle Seahawks and simply jumps at the opportunity. But once he arrives, then what?

What to do with Flynn?

Do the Dolphins commit to Flynn as their starter or do they commit to him as, ahem, a quarterback who will come to camp and compete with Matt Moore for the starting job. In other words, do the Dolphins commit starting quarterback money or do they commit the kind of money a player who has a chance to start but isn't certain of that typically gets?

If the Dolphins are committing to Flynn as their starter, they may have to spend between $7-$9 million per season. The deal would probably extend past two years and there would be a chunky bag of guaranteed money included.

The lesser commitment is obviously cheaper -- probably $4-$5 million per year with incentive clauses that would hike the deal's worth if Flynn wins the starting job, thus deserving more money. This kind of deal protects the team if he fails.

Me?

Flynn is worth one but definitely not the other. He is a value if signing a deal that protects the team in case he's more A.J. Feeley than Drew Brees. He still gets paid if he becomes a star. But he has to earn his money rather than getting it the minute he walks in the locker room.

Makes sense, right?

The problem is Flynn wants to maximize his earning. He will want the biggest deal he can get, certainly his agent will want that. And because he's got two quarterback-hungry teams talking to him, he might be able to leverage one versus the other to get what he wants.

(Personally, I don't see the Seahawks letting themselves be held up. They paid Travaris Jackson a two-year deal worth $8 million last season. I assume if they offer Flynn, it'll be a similar deal and ask him to fight for the starting job. I say this because you must remember Flynn was not Seattle's top QB choice this offseason. They actually scheduled Chad Henne to come to town before Flynn. Henne never made it because he signed with Jacksonville.)

Well, the Dolphins can similarly make the case that Flynn is not their top choice. At least I hope they make that case. Everyone knows they wanted Peyton Manning. And I assume they aren't going to use the money on Flynn that they would have used on Manning.

At least I hope not because that's just dumb.

I guess what I'm asking is for the Dolphins to hold their desperation in check. Getting Flynn simply isn't like getting Manning. We don't even know if he's any good.

With Flynn it's not just about getting him to come. As a relatively unproven player, he has to come at the right price -- for the team.

Follow me on twitter please.

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Back from meeting with accountant, I surely was not lowballed with her fees. LOL.

I look at it like this. Philbin et al have a value on Moore, they have a value on Flynn. If they did low ball Flynn ( I would love to know what it was) they have placed an x value on him and are offering 20-30% less most likely. If he counters, then they will lock him up, if he is insulted, then goodbye. Philbin does not feel he is worth of the 8-10 million. Ireland is doing the right thing. He is learning from our past mistakes. I think Ireland is not the best GM, but I think he has bot some business savvy.

Does anyone in Mia Recall the first time we heard the name Matt Flynn, that would be the '05 Peach Bowl against a #9 Hurricane squad. When I heard Jamarcus Russell would be out for the game and the backup making his first start would be playing I was livid the higher ranked cane will Destroy them. That game turned out to be the worst thrashing by a good UM team ever with matt flynn named MVP. He next went on to win the national championship. He is a very cerebral QB who is mobile with quick feet. He has worked with our new head coach for the last 4 Yrs. Philbin knows what he is capable of and we have seen him perform a couple of times and he is pretty damn impressive, not so much his record setting game in his second start but when he played NE a game which they would have won if the defense showed up. Miami has a better defense than green bay and with add of a safety a much better def.
Flynn can put up some serious numbers and points on the board, we resigned Solei with # 3 run stop D. We improve our Pass D, we trade up above the Rams and get Blackmon in the draft and most importantly sign MATT FLYNN. Life in Dolphinland could be paradise again. I was one of the crazy teenagers in the end zone during the glory years when the orange bowl was so loud we set the record for delay of game penalties because of crowd noise (old school rules). We finally have a chance to do something meaningful after decades of wasted opportunities. Also one other thing (Bring back Flipper)

YG,

Makes no sense to me either to sign FLynn AND draft a second round QB, that's why I prefer the idea of drafting a guy like Weeden and having him fight it out with Moore. It's one or the other. If you commit to Flynn for 3-4 years, then forget drafting a QB this year. Focus on WR, TE, RT and S.

Boy did Ross screw up not landing Harbaugh. All he had to do is fire Sparano/Ireland and he would have had his "young Shula"! LOL

does anyone have the stats on weeden?...I know he's 28 but staubach was 29 when the cowboys got him...thanks

The starting QB of the Miami Dolphins next year is Matt Moore. I told you as much 6 weeks ago.

I just can't see them winning a championship with "Alex Smith. Yes they were good last year but Smith is still the problem on that team. They'd be gold with a healthy Manning."

Craig I could be wrong in my interpretation but aren't you the one condoning staying with Moore? Was that you I was talking too about that? If so aren't Moore and Smith basically the same type of player?

I would think if San Fran can't win it all with a qb that helped take his team to the NFC championship then how do we have any chance with a qb who had a .500 record? Ya know what I'm saying?

Why is Alex Smith worse than Moore as a QB in your estimation? Seriously, I know nothing about Smith except for his record last season and that he looked awesome in the playoffs.

Stephen: Matt Moore is 27 and a proven winner in the NFL who throws more TDs than INTs and can only get better.

Manning also underwent a physical this week for the Niners. How were they able to keep this quiet from every media outlet out there this week? Amazing!

Posted by: Darryl Dunphy | March 16, 2012 at 02:20 PM

That post makes too much sense for the simpletons here

Craig M,
You are probably right. Then we just need sound judgment in the draft. If Weeden remains in the second round, I say take him. If Moore fails to progress during the season, we then can see how Weeden performs.
There is still next years draft also. I was not expecting a play off run this season anyway, or SB. For me this season was pretty much going to be a wash..New HC, new OC, complete new staff. Normally that takes longer than 1 season.

jenny craig I'm aware of moore its weeden i was asking about ....any stats anyone seen him play?

Seriously not one laugh, three funny jokes wasted on you people? Can't even get a laugh for my "Irish Cuisine" joke? " Screw Peyton, he's got some nerve" nothing? Crickets. You people are all dead inside!!!! :)

One problem is that many -- but not all, thank God -- Fins fans are local UM Canes fans. In other words: uneducated (football ignorant) thug trash.

Miami and the ACC are not football places. Just aren't.

Does anyone recall (as some above have noted) what Flynn did to your precious UM Cane losers when they played?

UM is not in the same ballpark as any SEC team.

I love how the 49ers didnt jump into the Manning meley right away. They waited right until the end when everyone else had made thier pitch, and pretenders had been eliminated. Then made thier thunderous and skocking entrance right at the end.

Boy do I wish Harbaugh was in Miami!

Manning to SF made the most sense since day one. Is this what he's been waiting for all along, a team like SF or Houston to show interest? How'd you like to be a Titan fan right now? Owner offers a 'lifetime contract' to Manning and he says no. Played his College ball there, Dad knows the head coach well.....God he's going to be hated in Tennessee now...LOL. Or a Cardinals fan? Have to pay Kevon Kolb his $7 milion bonus tomorrow, after getting your hopes up that Manning was coming....wow!

Posted by: Craig M | March 16, 2012 at 02:23 PM

I'm wondering how many posts 1 person can make saying the same thing over and over. Thats now 2 almost identical posts from you about the same darn thing.

Will you stop at nothing to be heard?

"Appearing on Sports Center Friday, ESPN's Adam Schefter reported the Dolphins have "emerged as the favorites" to sign free agent QB Matt Flynn.
"I think the Dolphins are the team to beat," added Schefter. The Dolphins are expected to be the highest bidder, though Yahoo's Jason Cole reports the team is currently "low-balling" Flynn, believing he'll give in just to reunite with coach Joe Philbin. It's hardly a shocking report considering the shenanigans of the Dolphins front office the past couple of years."

Mando please!!! Just stop it!!! If Ross & Ireland screw this up they should face suspensions from Goodell for alienating their fan base due to gross incompetence.

We need to sign flynnn and that's the bottom lline, two games against 2 good teams andg his numbers are great, FACT.....WHO ELSE IS BETTER OH LET ME GUESS TANNehill before real dolpfans, dude sucks or he be a 1st or 2nd pick....we don't need a alright qb from collage we need a qb the proved himself atleast a lil in the nfl...and with philbin he will proove himself alot more you'll see, if we get a good rt we will have a great line and get 2 decent wide receivers, one from f.a. and one from collage, and the rest of the draft we can get our d.e. safty corner w/e....but we will be fine ....if worst comes to worst don't let weadon's age fool anybody he wayyyyyyy better than tannehill

YG, well I wish I had a 100,000,000 million but I dont so forget about Harbaugh. The Dolphins will win many champoionships with Ross and Ireland at the healms.

..NY"G"...We do the corned beef from scratch at the restaraunt..Not enough time to brine the Brisket so my recipe won't work...I would say braise it in Beer, chicken stock, onions, celery carrot, for about 6 hours at 325...Strain the liquid and use it to cook the carrots, potatoes, and cabbage.. We make Bubble and Squeek instead of boiled potatoes, we aslo just sautee Napa cabbage to order...Delicious.

I will try to avoid drinking to many Car-Bombs tommorow, or talken into going to Butte for the vomit fest...

Phins78,

I'm not onside with Moore or Flynn. Mark convinced me we need a first round QB. I'm drinking that Kool Aid now. What I've argued is that adding Flynn, delays getting that first round QB. I don't see us winning a Super Bowl any time soon, Phins78, for the sake of not tying up unnecessary money and forgoing drafting a young QB, I wouldn't sign Flynn. Niners are in a different situation. They are a team that could win a championship. Great defence and some good talent on offence. I don't believe Smith can get them past the Packers, Saints, Giants, Falcons....whoever it is you think will be the team to beat. Maybe throw the Lions and Eagles in there too. It's a different team with a healthy Manning.

The Dolphins will win many champoionships with Ross and Ireland at the healms.

Posted by: Clue | March 16, 2012 at 02:36 PM

I'll sell you my name for 10 cents. It seems to fit!

So, I just read an EYE-OPENING article on the SS about Philbin and what he looks for in a WR. Basically, David Hyde thinks we'll draft at least 2, and both in the 2nd-rd or later (he said forget Blackmon).

He said: The two names that stand out as real possibilities are Chris Givens of Wake Forest and Marvin Jones of Cal. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if either ended up being the Dolphins second round pick. Givens is 5’11, 203 and Jones is 6’1, 199.

Basically, he looks for Team Captains, precise route-runners, no Alpha, not too tall, no blazing speed.

Also, interestingly, Hyde said if Weeden were 22, he'd go after Luck.

I've heard that about Weeden in other circles too. Frankly, I hope we don't get Flynn, then MUST draft a QB. Then, I hope Cleveland takes Tannehill, and if Ireland wants to show he's worth ANYTHING, he'd just bite the bullet and draft Weeden. The guy SHOULD take over day 1 (I see him beating Moore), and we should have a nice QB to develop with the team.

That's my new hope!

Phins78,

So to answer your question better, yes, I see Smith and Moore as similar players.

I would really have liked to been able to hear what Marino whispered into Peytons ears.
It probably went something like this Marino says > you don't want anything to do with this jackazz owner and GM. lol
And Peyton whispered back > I didn't want to play in the house that you built Dan, I respect you and you are my childhood hero and I don't want to break anymore of your records as a Dolphin. I love you man!!!!

This is close to dead on balls accurate. Except he wouldn't mention breaking his records.

As I explained yesterday. Denver has Elway. Miami has Marino.

Tennessee has Manning. Manning will sign with Tennessee.

Clueless, you dont believe right now but they will :)

Manning in SF with that O line packed with number one picks, a franchise rb, Moss, Lloyd, and Crabtree as your receivers, and VD as your tight end???

That legit defense on top of it all.

Turn out the lights, the party's over, SF wins easy in 2012.

I always liked henne, with a good line and good coach he will be a great qb in the nfl.....he will be a starter next yr I would be 1000000 $ that he starts

"If the Dolphins are committing to Flynn as their starter, they may have to spend between $7-$9 million per season. The deal would probably extend past two years and there would be a chunky bag of guaranteed money included."

No messing around here. I can totally see Ross & Ireland trying to be cute & screw this up. I say if Philbin thought enough to pursue him & Ross is committed building a winning team then that's how much we have to spend. However there has to be an out if he bombs this season--like the Cardinals have with Kolb--so if need be we can cut our losses after one year & not owe him an extra $7-9 Million for 2013.

I know it's old news... but it won't surprise me to find out a year from now that Henne was the best FA QB for us.. and Sporano was the best HC for us. Of course, they'll both prove that with OTHER teams... as is the Fin's Way!

Nice post DC @2:40

The band-aid is Moore and whatever FA they sign to compete for a starting job THIS YEAR (Flynn).

For the long term health of the team, they MUST follow the GREEN BAY WAY and draft a QB high this year (Tannehill) and keep drafting and developing QB talent EVERY YEAR.

As it turns out Manning worked out for the 49ers behinds everyone's back. And Ross had to beg Marino who in turn had to beg Manning for what we -and the world- now knows was a courtesy interview, one that Manning wanted without the presence of Ross or Ireland.

I understand the argument some of you made about this being an incredible astute move on the part of Ireland to drive Flynn's price down but I'm sorry I do not buy that theory for one second. Had they indeed planned it that way they would have pulled out earlier of the Manning sweepstakes and signed Flynn at the bottom price. Maybe Ross needs to hire a Wall Street trader to do Jeff's job.

As it turns out, Ross has no problems in running the reputation and name of this franchise to the toilet. You can see it all over ESPN, nfl.com, and others how we were the ones -again- who could not get a date to the prom. Embarrassing! For those of you to continuing defending this owner please open your eyes.

I will always be a Phins fan and root for them but this level of incompetency and self-respect for this once proud franchise should not be given a pass and must not be rewarded. Ireland in fact may not be the bad guy here -I can't even believe I said that- but he for sure is the fall guy for a really crappy owner in Ross.

Clueless, you dont believe right now but they will :)

Posted by: Clue | March 16, 2012 at 02:41 PM

YEA LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

If the past is a good indicator of the future, and it normally is, I can't wait to see the look on your face in 2-3 years!

Guys seriously, even if you hate my posts go read this article. Great read and analysis of everything going on in Dolphins country right now. You WILL learn some things you didn't know, I know I did.

http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports/columnists/hyde/blog/2012/03/draft_winds_what_the_dolphins.html

DC,

Now you're coming around to my way of thinking (be afraid, be very afraid....LOL). Weeden would be getting a lot more attention if he were younger. This is my hope too but I wouldn't wait on the guy. Team tried to do that last year and missed on Dalton.

Mark, totally agree with you on SF. Look out....we have a new leader in the clubhouse.

WOW ! Only 5 or 6 Million under the cap....

.....so basically we are tapped out if we sign Flynn.......that's great ....what a joke this FO has become.

Mark, hysterical much?

Im not sure Weeden would beat out Moore. Not saying your wrong, i just dont know enough about he guy. Yes I did some reading, and saw some clips. But everytime I think of him, I think of another QB (older) that came out of Florida and did a nose dive..Not saying Weeden will. But, that being said, I agree if Weeden is still available in the second, I say we take him..So I kind of agree and disagree..

Clueless, your about as smart as a rock

DC Dolfan, I agree weeden is the acorn of qb's this year...ireland pun intended...lol

WOW ! Only 5 or 6 Million under the cap....
.....so basically we are tapped out if we sign Flynn.......that's great ....what a joke this FO has become.
Posted by: Buster | March 16, 2012 at 02:47 PM

We made sure we grabbed Artis Hicks though! Jerry & Murtha aren't mediocre enough, we needed a slighlty older version of those 2!

Priorities!

Captaain Dikhead, Ireland knows what he's doing. We got Odrick, Davis, and Sean Smoth

Craig M does a marvelous job of cutting and pasting stories from si.com and other standard sheep news sources.

Craig good points. And I'm almost drinking some of that koolaid myself. (Can't believe I said that because I hate that tired saying!)

After reading the article that Hyde put out "draft winds" I'm seeing Weeden as someone we should take a STRONG look at. Was already on the fence about the kid but people are saying a younger Weeden would be going at #2 or #3 this year. The only reason he's dropped is because of age. And we were about to sign a 36 year old. Weeden is 7 years away from that and can start immediately.

Trains leaving, I'm on board. Weeden is my fall back option if Flynn doesn't work out. I don't think we have a shot at Tannehill and would never pay to move up and draft a qb at #5 who wasn't projected to go until the second round before the desperation set in.

Clueless, your about as smart as a rock

Posted by: Clue | March 16, 2012 at 02:48 PM

It's you're, fyi. And, if I'm as smart as a rock, I'm still smarter than you. Which would make you as smart as, a pebble? LOL Go back to sleep!

Craig, I posted my last one and then scrolled down and saw your Weeden post. Too funny.

DC, I agree that we eventually have to get a first round grade QB and my preferences at the end of the year were as follows:

Luck
RG3
Peyton
Tannehill
Weeden

I didn't want anyone else. I think these should've been the targets all along. And frankly they had a shot at RG3 but didn't want to pay the necessary price.

Peyton and Luck, no shot as it turns out. And I don't blame Peyton at all. Only a fool would select Miami over SF.

So that leaves us with Tannehill and Weedon. Either fit the bill with Moore holding down the fort and ensuring we get another decent draft pick next year. And you're right, Weedon may even prove to be a day one starter and with our o line, it's not a bad option.

Clueless, you backstabber you are like Brutus im Caesar

Not anymore to say on this topic except for finding a new way to say the same thing over and over.......and over again.

Im out....have a day guys. LOL

PS, I only say no drafting a QB this year if you sign Flynn. if you sign him, then youhave to give him the chance. or else, save your money. I'm with Craig there.

This isn't Gruden's Bucs, we should not have 38 QBs in camp.

Phins78,

Welcome aboard...lots of room.

There are people out there on the Internet clamouring that the Dolphins should go hard no after Alex Smith. Will the madness never end?

Craig (lol) maybe they're right and we are the same person? We seem to think a like. I'm seeing a fight club kind of thing going on. hahaha One of us is Tyler Durden.

Europe, Tannehill DEFINITELY wouldn't beat Moore out (year 1, I don't think). So Weeden just being a possibility puts him in the lead (as to who to get). Unless people believe Cousins, Foles or any of those other guys are any better, these 2 are our choices. And me, personally, from what I've read and heard (and seen with my own eyes), I'd go for Weeden.

But, frankly, I'd be ok with either of those guys. I just don't like the fact that we'd have Flynn, Moore AND Devlin on our roster. There's no long-term answer in any of those 3 (IMO).

Clue, calling you clueless might be an insult to Clueless. You sensitive about Ireland or something? It's kind of hard to tell. (sarcasm)

If the truth hurts you that much, you shouldn't be here. Then again, you can also ignore posts you don't like.

Either 1 you chose will work fine for me. Good day!

No to Flynn. CHad henna is way better than Flynn

Craig, I actually AM getting pretty afraid. We've been agreeing a lot in the last couple of days. Need to re-analyze my thinking, lol.

Seriously though, I think this is the only way to go.

Also, the article Phins linked to is the one I was reading. He's right. It kind of put me at ease. At least there MIGHT be a plan. Hopefully Ireland understands what Philbin needs. Then hopefully Philbin/Sherman can execute. If they do, they will overtake Shula as royalty in Miami.

If Miami the one organization that best knows Flynn beside GB refuses to give him “Franchise Money” no other team will.

Phins78,

That's funny. Read a few of your comments from above. It's funny, I just watched Fight Club again yesterday....good movie!

I agree with the consensus, I think Weeden COULD start from day one, I'm just not sure why you would want him to. Give him time to adjust to the NFL a little and learn and if Moore struggles, then he plays. Kid has a lot of skill!

As my daughter would say, REALLY? A two start NFL QB without an array of targets like GB? REALLY???
As far as Manning, let him laugh his way to the bank with someone else's money.
Mando, agree we not rip the Dolphins as a team of players but a greedy owner without pride in winning and with an inept GM are different stories.
Ross made his money in real estate, a trade that has made tons of money by polishing terds and selling those shiny stinkers to us dummies. Any doubt? Hey South Florida, how's that equity working for you?
To Ross and Co, the pre-game gala and half time pomp and circumstance have turned into boring re-runs. Put a consistet winner on the field for 60 minutes a game, build back that money spending fan base, and you will need to hire an extra accountant to count all your money.
Although I never liked the Raiders, Al Davis (RIP) kept and grew his fan base, as well as made big money on "JUST WIN BABY". And, as a bonus, he could always manipulate the NFL to his benefit because they couldn't ignore a winning franchise that made them money . . . BRILLIANT!!!
Here's the problem for us, real estate people make money by qick flips they call investments. True investments in sports are made with acquiring and developing personel then molding them into a team or a brand. It takes intelligence and time. The time period is shorter when the intel is greater. Ireland has had his time and used it with poor intelligence and decisions. If Ross wants to stay in this biz, he needs to either replace him or give that power to a head coach who is willing to spend 24/7 building back this once great team.

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