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The difference between Colts, Dolphins

The Dolphins and Colts are similar in many respects in that both are rebuilding this year after a difficult 2011. The Dolphins have a new coach. The Colts have a new coach. The Dolphins are going with a rookie first-round quarterback. The Colts are going with a rookie first-round quarterback.

But the manner in which they are approaching this year is obviously different and that difference showed clearly in the trade that yesterday sent cornerback Vontae Davis from Miami to Indianapolis.

The truth is the Colts until Sunday had a major hole at one of their cornerback spots. It was as big as the hole the Dolphins have at, say, wide receiver.

But unlike the Dolphins who have this offseason addressed the wide receiver need on the cheap with low-round draftees and signing a has-been and troubled veteran in Chad Johnson, the Colts went more aggressive.

The Colts began shopping for ways to address their need. Early last week the team began searching for a way to plug that leaky hole in the defense. And knowing that Vontae Davis had lost his starting job in Miami, the Colts called asking to acquire him.

The Colts' first offer was a sixth-round pick.

Miami general manager Jeff Ireland, who had not been shopping Davis, told the Colts he was not interested.

By Thursday, the offer was improved to a fifth-round pick. Ireland still had no interest in that price for a player he views as troubled but still worthy of keeping  given his age, ability, relatively cheap cost and the first-round investment he had in Davis.

So the Colts let that sit for a while.

And Saturday the Colts came back again -- this time offering a third-round pick for Davis. I have to give Indianapolis GM Ryan Grigson credit for persistence. He latched on to the idea of getting Davis like a pitbull locks down on a steak and didn't let go. And, of course, while he was showing little interest in the offers, Miami GM Jeff Ireland was not saying, "Stop calling me!"

Ireland was open to the idea of trading Davis, but at a price he wanted. That goes back to the Bill Parcells school of thought that "Everybody is on the trade block all the time." (For the right price).

The third-round offer got Ireland's attention in that serious, serious negotiations began to take place between the teams. The Colts were finally in the ballpark but Ireland wanted more. And the fact they were in the ballpark encouraged the Colts they might be able to solve their gaping defensive problem. It also encouraged Ireland that he could get a premium draft pick in this deal.

It was sometime late Saturday or early Sunday when Grigson came back with the second-round offer. The offer put Ireland on the hook but to reel him in, Grigson had to add the conditional sixth-rounder that he ultimately included in the deal.

Although he will never say it, Ireland obviously believes the Colts to be rebuilding and is banking on them having a high pick in next year's draft so, in his mind, he's not just getting a No. 2 but potentially a high No. 2. Grigson, meanwhile, sees that his draft picks will be a lot lower now that he's got a set of corners he's happy about to play games in this pass-happy league. He believes Colts coach Chuck Pagano can get major production out of Davis that obviously Joe Philbin and his staff didn't think they could get. And he believes he can compete and win a lot of games this year, particularly with the Davis addition.

One more thing: It doesn't bother Grigson that Davis has been dogged by "character" issues that include drinking. He believes the 24-year-old can be molded and will mature.

The Dolphins?

Publicly, they're saying all the right things about not giving up and not being diminished by this trade even though it is not arguable that they are not as good right now, today, as they were before they traded Davis on Sunday.

A lockdown cornerback is simply hard to find in today's NFL.

But the Dolphins have added valuable "ammunition," as Ireland called it and that can be used to address other issues in the future. Yes, I said the future. The truth is that while many fans have the expectation that the Dolphins are going to turn around and use their shiny, new second-round pick on a wide receiver (Miami's biggest hole now) in time for this season, I have serious doubts about that.

I think it's more likely the Dolphins have set themselves up for using that pick or packaging that pick in next year's draft to fill whatever needs this season proves the Dolphins have.

If it plays out that way, count that as a significant difference between the Dolphins and Colts. The Colts gambled and tried to get better on the fly by making a trade now -- even if it means chasing down a trade partner and giving up a second-rounder. The Dolphins would be taking a more careful approach, waiting until next April to use the pick they just acquired.

Comments

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The team sucks and needs to move to LA.

Clue,
Davis was the 21st pick the year he was drafted. We traded him probably for something like the 37th pick AND a conditional sixth. In two years he'd walk for nothing. If he started the year on the bench you wouldn't get a second for him. Good move by Ireland to move him now. By the time this team is good Davis would be playing somewhere else. Who cares that he's 24. Why does he continually show up out of shape and hungover and late for meetings? That's a professional football player? That's a guy who takes his craft seriously? No thanks. Looking forward to seeing guys like Blackmon and Andre Johnson continually beat him team and realzie he's someone else's problem.

They should wait Armando....

why rush.....even to me (mr. 11-5) its gettin hard to deny we are rebuilding....

Craig M, you have yet to answer my last question which is what good is a second round pick if Ireland CANT DRAFT? Also besides Long which was prob a Parcells pick who is the bst player Ireland drafted? please answer that ?. This team is void of talent and who does that fall on Craig. Dispite Vontae having maturity issues didnt he lead the team in picks, yea ship him away for a draft pick...

Also do you really think a rookie 2nd round pick will be better than Vontae going into hios 4th year s a pro? Some of you guys are just nutz!

We'll see how much the Indy fans are in love with Davis when he continually gives up big plays to the likes of Blackmon and Andre Johnson. The guy has tons of talent but a 5 cent brain. Let's see how commited he becomes to his game. He'll take your breath away and break your heart all in the same game. Big gambler who'll get you killed right when you need a big stop. Good luck in Indy Vontae....

Vontae was the 25th pick so the value we got back was even better. Guy has had 4 training camps to lock it down. Always slow to get going. He is good but he wasnt a fit for Philbin. He wants hard workers more than just talent.

Colts are trading away their picks next year, how will they get better then ? Selling out the future for today might sit well with idiot fans but next year they won't remember that happy feeling unless they win the Super Bowl. Miami is building a foundation to win not today but the many tomorrows to come. If Miami wins say 5 games this year and the colts win 7, is that better for their fans ? If Miami wins 4 games and the colts win 8 games but miss the playoffs, is there a difference ? Miami will be sitting on two exra high picks while they'll have several missing since they've already made other trades. I'll take Miami's future.

Hard workers like Roberto Wallace and Leggo Nannee who cant even hold onto the ball. SMH some of you are delusional. You invest a first rounder in someone, basically your starting all over from scratch, aving a bunch of rookies and first year players dont get you W's in the NFL.

Colts arent cheap like the Dolphins. Colts want to win.

2 EXTRA PICKS WITH IRELAND FREAKING MAKING THE PICKS. HE DRAFTS ACORNS SO WHAT GOOD IS HAVING 10 DRAFT PICKS! JESUS CHRIST!

Besides Long (Parcells pick) who has Ireland drafted that even remotely close to being a star player heck even a playmaker, heck even a player team gameplan around? I'll wait...

Clue,

Davis has hurt this team as much as he's helped. Are you really telling me this is one of the best players on the team? All the coaches say he's got great talent but where is the commitment to get better? Where is the hard work being done in the offseason to get better? Guy continually shows up out of shape, late for meetings, gets beat badly and takes plays off. It's been a country club for him for three years under Sparano. No more under Philbin. Not sorry to see him go. By the time this team is good he'd be somewhere else or have worn out his welcome here. I trust Philbin on this one.

Vontae does NOT "continually" show up out of shape or drunk.

He was drunk once.

He was out of shape the first week or so of this camp and is now in shape.

I understand some commentors want to lick Ireland's fingers and agree with all his failed moves, but don't do it at the expense of telling lies about a player that you supposedly rooted for two days ago.

Amando,
One of the more well thought out blogs I've seen in a while. Plan and simple. The fact is, Vontae Davis for all his talent is not a lock-down corner. The fact is, Vontae Davis has yet to mature. In Indianapolis, they are going to expect him to be the leader of the secondary. He did not prove to be here and is likely not going to be a leader there either. I have no problems with the trade because I do not think Vontae will be any different with the Colts then he would have been with the Dolphins. Simply average...with potential. Vontae needs to go to a team with strong leaders already in the secondary to mature....Indianapolis is not that place.

The Colts became great because they drafted a very, very strong core of players (Manning, Harrison, Wayne, Clark, et. al.) The Packers became great in very much the same way. The Dolphins went opted to go with the high priced free agents/trade for veterans coupled with drafts and they suffered miserably.

Now the Colts are taking a page from the Dolphins personnel play book of old while the Dolphins shelve that play book for the one previously used by the Colts. Time will tell who is more successful but I'm betting on the Dolphins.

Use the shiny 2nd for Mike Wallace or Dwayne Bowe.

Lets Go Fins. Wake Up.

Craig, great to hear that you had some sort of personal issue with Davis, try answering the questions I asked you in my previous posts then we can get somewhere

All I know is that the Colts hit the jackpot by drafting Luck who was correctly considered a can't miss prospect & we're going to have to take a wait & see approach on Tannehill. With the lack of weapons he has it's going to be VERY difficult to evaluate him this season. I just hope we can establish the run & the O-line can keep him protected.

Clue,

How about Pouncey, Martin and Smith for starters? Then let's add Odrick to the mix. Jones in the 6th? Pretty good add. Hartline's been good when healthy as a 4th round pick. And the jury is still out on guys like Tannehill, Martin, Miller, Thomas and Egnew. We'll know soon enough on these guys.

Mando, a perfect poll for you to publish is asking fans this question:

Which ones of you believe the Colts will be better than Miami this year and years to come?

Which ones believe the Dolphins will be better this year and years to come?

I know where I would vote. Indy all the way.

Trading young established players for draft picks is suicidal when you have an Ireland for a GM.

I'll take the fins approach. If Miami goes 4-12 and Colts 5-11 or 6-10, then I'd want as many picks as possible. One underachieving, immature corner does not make u a Super Bowl contender.

Russel Wilson beat out the 25 million dollar man.....

Congrats....

He could have came there with the mindset of being a back-up....but he didn't you got to love that attitude from the "short" QB....

The Miami know-it-all sports media may be the worst in the country. The Dolphins just traded their THIRD string cornerback for a (likely) high second round pick (33-40) and a six rounder! Imagine how Armando and Co. would have reacted if the Dolphins had traded a 2nd and 6th round pick for some team's third best WR-- especially if the negotiations had been similar to those recited in this column. Ireland would've been derided as a fool to trade away valuable draft picks to get marginally better in a rebuilding year. I'm from Illinois and have always had a soft spot for Vontae, but this is a great deal for the Dolphins.

The offseason from hell. Will this nightmare ever end?

The Dolphins blew the Phillip Merling pick when he was the first pick of the second round.

They blew the Chad Henne and Pat White picks when they had multiple second round picks.

So explain to me again why Jeff Ireland is happy he got a high second-round pick to go with his own second round pick?

All he does is turn around and waste them.

Let's look at the holes on this team after the season, as you mention Armando, & let's see if there will be enough picks.

This team needs 3 legit WR's
It needs at LEAST 1 TE
It needs at LEAST 1 RG
They either need a very good LT or resign Long to huge money
They will probably want to resign Reggie Bush
They need 2 legit CB's, 3 if they don't or can't resign Smith
They need at LEAST 1 Safety
They will likely need a new MLB (Dansby on the outs)
They will likely be looking for a better OLB(Misi)

Now, let's factor in Ireland's below average track record in the draft. There aren't enough picks in the world for Ireland to fill these holes. This isn't a 1 year rebuild. Even 2. This is a 3-4 year project AGAIN.

And worse yet, this team has almost no cap space so yet again, they really won't be able to afford any legit players to fill those needs in FA.

You think this year is bad? Wait until next year! It'll be MUCh worse. This team is going nowhere with Ireland at the helm.

I don't know why fans can't see Ireland is the problem. They think they are smart but, they are actually not.

Ross, just fold the team now. Why drag it out?

scourt,

Try going back and watching the Pats game the first year of the season and tell me Davis wasn't out of shape then. He is CONSTANTLY beat deep on big plays which tells you he can't keep up. It's not the first time we've heard this. It's not the first time he's missed or been late for meetings. There were games he didn't start and games he was suspended for. Bottom line, this is not a vet that is leadig the way on how to do things.....see ya later! He probably assumed he had a starting spot won by default and thought he would coast into the season...bad mistake.

Quote from Jeff Ireland, 'We know lots about our players that others don't know or hear about'. That tells me they knew all the had to know about Vontae.

Craig. Pouncey sure I'll give you that but I doubt he'll ever be better than his brother. And having a good C doesnt mean much. Martin is a turnstile so far, not sure what you see there. SS is a decent player, I doubt he'll ever make a pro bowl and when going against elite WR he gets smoked, remember what Nicks did to him? Hartline a number 3 WR at best, you think he's good? LOL. SMH Egnew is scared shizless out there Ray Charles could see this. And the rest TBD. So far your case hasnt been made

Vontae does NOT "continually" show up out of shape or drunk.

He was drunk once.

He was out of shape the first week or so of this camp and is now in shape.

I understand some commentors want to lick Ireland's fingers and agree with all his failed moves, but don't do it at the expense of telling lies about a player that you supposedly rooted for two days ago.


Scourt,

I believe there MUST have been a number of other things that went on with Vontae that we don't know about & if you recall correctly he was not in game shape at the beginning of last season either when he was continuing to cramp.

Bottom line--As a player he was inconsistent. Yes he's a great athlete & showed flashes of greatness but not nearly enough to be considered worthy of being a 1st round pick &/or a top CB. With that said--up until the end of last year--Smith has been a disappointment as well.

Cual (from last blog), THAT'S what the effe I'm talking about. Ireland dealt this troubled guy for something almost equal to his current worth. Mando says Colts want a "shutdown" corner. Guess they'll still be looking for that next year because Vontae AIN'T that. He's an adequate corner, PERIOD. Sean Smith is just about as good (which says a lot about Vontae).

I'm not saying Ireland is the best in the World, I'm saying this was a player that was ultimately NOT going to be on this team. And therefore they got something for him.

Now can they turn that pick into a star next Draft, that's still a question mark. But this is the way all the elite teams get better (through the Draft) and not picking up someone else's trash.

Has anyone ever witnessed a worse sports franchise? LOL

Feeding the negative storyline, the problem with your post is that you have no grasp of reality. Vontae Davis is not a third-string anything. He was second-string at worst and probably still going to start when the season-opener rolled around because Richard Marshall sucked in the last preseason game. So please get that right.

Then, you say what would the media say if Miami traded for a third-string WR. Name me a WR drafted in the first round that is third-string on his team?

You can't.

Ba-Zinnnng!!!!

Clue,

I didn't say Hartline is good. I'm saying it's about the best you can expect from a 4th round pick. Same with the 6th round pick Jones.

Egnew has had three PRESEASON games. Bit early to be writing off don't you think? Same goes for Martin. No comments on Smith and Odrick?

"Russel Wilson beat out the 25 million dollar man.....

Congrats....

He could have came there with the mindset of being a back-up....but he didn't you got to love that attitude from the "short" QB...."

Which is ridiculous b/c he's only an inch shorter than Brees. So much for the draft experts & their measurables. LOL!!!

Wilson is the REAL deal & you could clearly see that by watching him play for Wisconsin last year. Smart athlete & he learned their offense in two weeks.

Craig M....

I'm not really in the conversation....but I gotta tell you....

I hate that quote from Ireland....sounds personal and petty....even if he does "know" thing about players that we don't....he should keep that between him and his staff....

Posted by: Larry | August 27, 2012 at 11:19 AM

If the Colts win 8 games the Dolphins no longer have their "high pick".

Clue,
How about Pouncey, Martin and Smith for starters? Then let's add Odrick to the mix. Jones in the 6th? Pretty good add. Hartline's been good when healthy as a 4th round pick. And the jury is still out on guys like Tannehill, Martin, Miller, Thomas and Egnew. We'll know soon enough on these guys.

Posted by: Craig M | August 27, 2012 at 11:27 AM

Martin starts? YIPPIE! What other option do they have?

R. Jones? He's a body who is simply better than the other bums behind him.

Hartline is an AEVERAGE WR.

Odrick has been adequate. Considering he's a former 1st rounder, that's not saying a whole lot.

Pouncey is the only guy you named who has truly been a good find.

JUST BECAUSE A GUY IS STARTING ON ONE OF THE MOST TALENT DEVOID TEAMS IN THE NFL DOES NOT MAKE HIM A GOOD PLAYER.

It just makes him the best option available. Stop drinking Ireland's kool aid.

Two years of Vontae Davis is almost worth a second round pick in and of itself. He IS talented enough to cover the big boys, there are very few corners like Vontae Davis in the league.

I'm not saying he's a shut down corner but what he brought to the table in a hit and miss way was more valuable than whatever player Ireland wastes the second rounder on.

Even if they weren't going to resign him in two years.

I also expect Ireland to "know" things about his playerts....I just don't expect him to hold what he "knows" about the players over their heads....

trade the man...and move on...

"no comment"...would have sufficed....

DC,

You're dead right, Vontae is NOT a shutdown corner. A shutdown corner doesn't give up as many big plays as Davis does. The Colts can think what they want. To date he hasn't been a shutdown corner. Guys like Revis and Asomugha don't give up nearly as many big plays as Davis does. You are correct, for all his shortcomings Smith is more of a shutdown corner than Davis. Just doesn't know how it hang onto the ball.

Kris, I think the comment by Ireland was said out of frustration with Davis. You're right, not the most professional thing to share with the media. My guess is he had a weal moment. I think it's clear though that there's more on Davis than most of us know.

Grigson is a new GM trying to prove his aggressive. In reality, he's not one player away from contending and VD is not that player if they were. Miami hasn't played a Super Bowl in forever and they've always thought they were a player or 2 away from it. I WELCOME REBUILDING

Here's my problem, that article in the SunSentinel by Hyde talking about how "tough" Joe Philbin is.

Not from where I'm standing. To me it is a WEAK coach who can't control ultra talented but difficult players, and that's Philbin.

calling davis a lock down corner is a laugh. We got what we paid for him. Good riddance.

I agree Craig M...

for that comment to find its way into an episode of Hard Knocks...well thats one thing....but for him to be doing an "official" interview....well...thats tally different....

Dolphins headed for more losing with "The Prude" Philbin. He is no Vince Lombardi -- sorry Green Bay wannabees..Discipline and good manners are all good to demand from your players but you also need to inspire. Philbin does not have the personality of an inspiring coach so his ridiculous personal demands on grown men are just gonna be met with yawns and scowls and, eventually, scorn..He has ripped out the heart of the Dolphins...

My only question is: will this be the worst Dolphins team ever? How many games will they lose??

Armando, I think that Philbin had more to do with this than you let on. Davis is a habitual problem. That's why he lasted as long as he did in the draft. He was also a problem in Illinois. Philbin showed with Chad Johnson and now with Davis that he is not interested in being a baby sitter. Are the Dolphins worse today than yesterday? Yes. But Vonte Davis is not a game changer and his loss will not, in the long run, affect the won/loss record of Miami. I do believe the Dolphins will have an awful year. It may cost Ireland his Job and in the long run (New GM equals New Coach) Philbin his job.

Clue,

Considered most people feel you can't really rate a draft for three years, I'm not really sure what your point is. Are you sure the type of player Thomas is after his injury plagued rookie season? If that was the case then Arian Foster never would have seen the field after his first season in the league.

My point is, Ireland has had three years now to run the draft. I think at this point it's too erly to say which of his players are going to work out and which aren't. So how about we give it some time.

Most of you guys actually believe you could do better. Some of you guys actually think Davis is or is going to be a blue chip db! What if we would've got the same deal for Carroll?? All you guys would've gotten on your hands and knees and thanked the football gods! True, we drafted him in the first round so what! He didn't work out NEXT! Also what difference does it make were going to win less than 7 wins this year!

Shouldn't Philbin also be given a chance to show if he's got it or not as a head coach. Seems too many people have their minds made up on this guy after three preseason games. Bit early, don't you think?

The truth is the fins don't need as much.

In order of priority

1 legit Wr
OLB
Safety
RG(If Jerry doesn't workout)
MLB
1 TE
1 Nickel CB(Smart decision signing Marshall)

That's the truth. Don't exaggerate the needs

Also, Dashi believes the fins will go after d.bowe if he becomes a FA next year

Armando:

Good information in this article, but your message (i.e. the POINT of the article is a big SO WHAT??). So the Colts "pulled the trigger". This means they may win 4 games versus the 2 they would have won without Davis (a BIG if....). In neither case are they a playoff team. The Dolphins, with all of the parallels you presented, may now win only 5 games instead of 6! Does that really change anything? If you were to come out and say "IRELAND SUCKS - I disagree with every move that he makes", that would spark the readers interest. Otherwise, you are nit-picking. In fact, I would argue that this is a good deal for the Dolphins if Davis was truly not better than Marshall at this point.

Dashi,

Bowe doesn't fit what Philbin wants in a player and Ireland would never shell out that kind of money for a WR. Much more likely that they'll draft a WR in the first three round next year. Maybe even two.

Dashi, I think your delusional & childish.

Firstly, Speaking in the 3rd person? Grow up.

we only need 1 WR? LMAO
Resigning Bush, Long, Smith aren't priorities? LMAO
When you have NE in your division, we don't need at least 2 LEGIT corners, 3 if you include Smith leaving? LMAO


Those aren't exaggerated. Those are legit. Only an Ireland Kool-aid drinker would deny it. With your mentiality, you prolly think the last 3 years have been allright!

Referring to Vonte as a lockdown corner is quite a stretch. We have seen a million guys with all the physical talent in the world (Jamar Fletcher, Jason Allen) who couldnt get the hang of the mental aspect of the game. Vonte is no different than the rest of him, a ton of potential that will never be realized.

However, the amount of 1st rounders besides Jake Long (who has absolutely lost a step btw) who haven't worked out for this team is absolutely staggering. Can a fanbase be more hopeless?? Im getting tired of all these homers saying "stick it out, it will get better." We've been "sticking it out" for the better part of two decades, and its not getting better anytime soon. Will it ever? It makes my stomach turn when I think of "things will get better under Saban; now we have Cam Cam, an offensive coach from the Chargers, one of the NFL's best offenses; Bill Parcells will turn the ship around; and FINALLY and offensive coach from the Packers, one of the NFL's best offenses!"

I used to look forward to NFL football every year, there is literally nothing to watch or hope for this season. 5 wins or less, and several of those due to the other team messing up?? Its getting old, you guys.

Dashi can name 50 Wr's that were drafted in the 1st rd that are bust not just starter.

Highest Pct% of bust in the 1st rd come from Wr's. Look it up

Wow!

Smith started 3 pre season games. Reported to camp IN shape and outplayed Vontae.

Marshall played 3 pre season games. Two of which he CLEARLY outplayed Vontae. Actually, for THE ONE GAME that Marshal had that wasn't as good, he STILL OUTPLAYED Vontae.

Yet someone wants to argue that Vontae wasn't the third corner? Huh? What?

He WAS playing the nickle. Well, he WAS until he was replaced by Nolan Carroll of all people, for getting burnt deep, being undisciplined and drawing a 15 yard penalty.


jeff ireland is a douche...

Yes, WAY TOO EARLY to give up on Philbin. We should all feel sorry for this guy. He had to come into THIS? He's doing his best, got his QB, now needs to get the rest of his team together, needs to teach new systems (that WILL work with the right personnel), needs to change a culture that's been lingering for years and years. And changing HCs every year (or 2 or 4) will NEVER fix anything. Continuity will fix things (as long as the HC has the right philosophy and strategy). And Philbin does, so I'm backing him for the near-future, even if we go 1-15 this year.

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