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The difference between Colts, Dolphins

The Dolphins and Colts are similar in many respects in that both are rebuilding this year after a difficult 2011. The Dolphins have a new coach. The Colts have a new coach. The Dolphins are going with a rookie first-round quarterback. The Colts are going with a rookie first-round quarterback.

But the manner in which they are approaching this year is obviously different and that difference showed clearly in the trade that yesterday sent cornerback Vontae Davis from Miami to Indianapolis.

The truth is the Colts until Sunday had a major hole at one of their cornerback spots. It was as big as the hole the Dolphins have at, say, wide receiver.

But unlike the Dolphins who have this offseason addressed the wide receiver need on the cheap with low-round draftees and signing a has-been and troubled veteran in Chad Johnson, the Colts went more aggressive.

The Colts began shopping for ways to address their need. Early last week the team began searching for a way to plug that leaky hole in the defense. And knowing that Vontae Davis had lost his starting job in Miami, the Colts called asking to acquire him.

The Colts' first offer was a sixth-round pick.

Miami general manager Jeff Ireland, who had not been shopping Davis, told the Colts he was not interested.

By Thursday, the offer was improved to a fifth-round pick. Ireland still had no interest in that price for a player he views as troubled but still worthy of keeping  given his age, ability, relatively cheap cost and the first-round investment he had in Davis.

So the Colts let that sit for a while.

And Saturday the Colts came back again -- this time offering a third-round pick for Davis. I have to give Indianapolis GM Ryan Grigson credit for persistence. He latched on to the idea of getting Davis like a pitbull locks down on a steak and didn't let go. And, of course, while he was showing little interest in the offers, Miami GM Jeff Ireland was not saying, "Stop calling me!"

Ireland was open to the idea of trading Davis, but at a price he wanted. That goes back to the Bill Parcells school of thought that "Everybody is on the trade block all the time." (For the right price).

The third-round offer got Ireland's attention in that serious, serious negotiations began to take place between the teams. The Colts were finally in the ballpark but Ireland wanted more. And the fact they were in the ballpark encouraged the Colts they might be able to solve their gaping defensive problem. It also encouraged Ireland that he could get a premium draft pick in this deal.

It was sometime late Saturday or early Sunday when Grigson came back with the second-round offer. The offer put Ireland on the hook but to reel him in, Grigson had to add the conditional sixth-rounder that he ultimately included in the deal.

Although he will never say it, Ireland obviously believes the Colts to be rebuilding and is banking on them having a high pick in next year's draft so, in his mind, he's not just getting a No. 2 but potentially a high No. 2. Grigson, meanwhile, sees that his draft picks will be a lot lower now that he's got a set of corners he's happy about to play games in this pass-happy league. He believes Colts coach Chuck Pagano can get major production out of Davis that obviously Joe Philbin and his staff didn't think they could get. And he believes he can compete and win a lot of games this year, particularly with the Davis addition.

One more thing: It doesn't bother Grigson that Davis has been dogged by "character" issues that include drinking. He believes the 24-year-old can be molded and will mature.

The Dolphins?

Publicly, they're saying all the right things about not giving up and not being diminished by this trade even though it is not arguable that they are not as good right now, today, as they were before they traded Davis on Sunday.

A lockdown cornerback is simply hard to find in today's NFL.

But the Dolphins have added valuable "ammunition," as Ireland called it and that can be used to address other issues in the future. Yes, I said the future. The truth is that while many fans have the expectation that the Dolphins are going to turn around and use their shiny, new second-round pick on a wide receiver (Miami's biggest hole now) in time for this season, I have serious doubts about that.

I think it's more likely the Dolphins have set themselves up for using that pick or packaging that pick in next year's draft to fill whatever needs this season proves the Dolphins have.

If it plays out that way, count that as a significant difference between the Dolphins and Colts. The Colts gambled and tried to get better on the fly by making a trade now -- even if it means chasing down a trade partner and giving up a second-rounder. The Dolphins would be taking a more careful approach, waiting until next April to use the pick they just acquired.

Comments

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Fool who are u saying good bye too? Every other post, over and over and over again

Intellectual Midget? Ha, Dashi still stands 3 ft taller than u in that category. Ur intellect is nonexistent

DD agreed with some of ur points, not all of them. Grow up

U inferior Cumrag (We both can play that silly game)

My other name is Clue-Less, duhhhhhhhhh

'07 was just a mess, we needed to get better, bring in the dream team

'08 draft
one player left from that draft (long)
'09 draft
two players left (s. smith, c. clemons)

'10 has still got to play out, but it didnt get a whole lot better,

we need players

LMAO

Dashi - you have proven to be intellectually defecient in almost every respect. This is your own doing, not mine. Stop being bitter.

Win the discussion? HAHAHA I wasn't trying to win anything. I was trying to get you to explain your assinine comments. YOU REFUSED.

But, I guess I did win the convo. When you can't back up what you claim = Case closed.

Bloags are about making a statement & backing it up. Not just making idiots statements like you do all day long.

Just fyi, I called you an idiot because you are an idiot. I think you'll find I'm not the only person to think so. I'm just not afraid to tell you so.

Jake Long is next... why do you think they drafted J.Martin

Philbin is building his team, and like I said on a previous blog: if this leads to us becoming the GB Packers of the AFC in 3 years then every fan trying to jump ship will be back and singing Philbin's praises (no, not Ireland's -- though he has set us up for success....albeit, in the future)

No matter how good of a HC Philbin becomes Ireland is no Ted Thompson. You can't win unless you know how to draft, sign the right FA's, & manage the cap. Sure coaching matters but we're in the same division as the Patriots who is one of the best coaches in NFL history (5 SB appearances & 3 SB's). And why is that??? B/c they found a great QB & continue to surround him with talent.

A Defence of Jeff Ireland

The Matt Flynn news out of Seattle confirms something I’ve been noodling around – sometimes the best moves are the ones you DON’T make.

First and foremost – Peyton Manning was never coming here. Period. He used the Dolphins for leverage.

Jeff Fisher – ditto. I was a big Fisher booster, but given he would have likely brought the Gregg Williams carnival to town with him, I consider this a bullet dodged.

Matt Flynn – not starter material apparently. Seattle is now overpaying him. Miami isn’t.

A 2nd round pick plus a late rounder for Vontae? Take it and run with it. The Dolphins will enjoy Chicago’s 3rd next year courtesy of Mr. Brandon Marshall. You have to let go of sunk costs and move on.

(remember the good old days when Dolphins receivers were not assaulting their wives, but instead being stabbed by them…good times).

So you know – I’m okay with how the offseason went in this regard.

With that said, the Dolphins are going to be terrible this year and Ireland should be fired

Mando,

Its everything and not just one or two things.

Take Wake for instance. Why was Ireland monkeying around with resigning him?

IMO, a rebuild revolves around the FIRST BEST QB in the draft. Followed by the 2nd best.

Not the 3rd. Arguably the 4th or 5th.


This Shadow Gov't stuff must NEVER be used again in Miami...

it was Parcell's...NO..it was Ireland....

The result...they BOTH pulled the wool over our eyes while they rob Mr. Ross blind...and point the finger @ each other....

kinda reminds me of the DEMS and REPUBS....

Go FINS...

back to football....

Mitt Romney is a mormon, he's never been arrested for drinking.

But the larger point is fair, unless you have a weak coach who can't handle players it shouldn't matter what players do off the field.

I love the fact that we have another high round pick to get a potential star that can help our team.
I hate the fact that we have the wrong GM to draft him, and will probably end up reaching for a project that will provide depth and frustration instead of stardom and wins.

Hard to know how to feel about this.

Help me out guys. I never can figure out this cap stuff. We are about 2 or 3 million under cap unless we cut Gerrard???

Now if Long and Dansby are shown the door next year then you free up 27million plus the 14 million in dead money. Is that somewhere close to real if it were to happen??

If my math is correct then that gives you 41 to 46 minus Gerrard and current money to use. Plus you could probably add a few other cuts.

In my cap darkened world that would give you a ton of draft picks and probably 40 to 45 Million to shop for groceries with.

I think with the right plan you should be able to do something with that. But I thought drafting Blackmon and a DB would make us competitive this year.

Posted by: We Have RB's | August 27, 2012 at 12:46 PM

What???

How is Philbin going to turn the Dolphins into the Packers, we don't have the Packers quarterback or the coach who designed and called their offense.

Colts are a playoff team this year. Thats the difference.

Truth, if you look at Belechicks recent draft history (since Brady) they've been duds. Almost as horrible as Miami's draft picks since that time. I think after this season we ditch Ireland, get a more capable GM to draft and sign FAs and turn this thing around. We have the cap space and draft picks to do it and we do have to look at Ireland and how he managed that and give him a pat on the back...as he walks out the door. He may be a good acorn scout but that's about it. I agree he isn't the GM for us. But our 2013-2014 season looks pretty promising.

If we can get over the fact that this year is a lost year then we should actually feel pretty good about our team going forward.

Gary Stevens...

You can alos add Dez Bryant to your list when defending Ireland....a tasteless question for sure....but do we have the time or resources to give to him like the Cowboys...I don't know...but I also don't want to find out...

Last thought...

Jeff is asking us to trust him yet again. Even I would be willing to do that if I saw some fruit starting to bloom.

There is no blooming fruit as far as I can see.

SO WHY TRUST HIM NOW?!?!? Year after year, all you guys talk about is how good Ireland's picks are. Okay, where is the fruit of that labor? We've been regressing, regressing and regressing for years now.

Tuna made Ireland. Tuna is gone and now its just Ireland. You guys blame Tuna all the time. Ireland is a Tuna disciple. They are one in the same.

Yet, even Tuna was a coach and knows how to connect to players. It got him more respect from the players than this "manager of a sport" Ireland.

This team is dead to me now.

Curious...
Since Vince Young was canned again, makes me wonder...

Where are all the fans that insisted we had to get Young?
And we had to get Mallett?
And we absolutely needed Flynn - I mean come on, he did play one really great game once, right?
And Henne didn't get enough of a chance, and we need to trust him with our future?
And Orton was the guy to lead us out fo obcsurity?

Those folks still around?

Julius Pruitt has been released. I thought he was going to make the team, as he was pretty good on special teams at least.

Dave Hydes column at the SS

DOES PHILBIN KNOW WHAT HE'S DOING?

LMAO!!

@ Cual? ... are you saying Mitt didn't or doesn't have a drink from time to time please ... We all know Moroms drink ... i've seen them do it ..LOL

Thank goodness for DC Dolfan and few other people here who have common sense and patience. Most of you others are lunatic cry babies. RELAX!

Nobody is declaring Ireland brilliant. But lets face it he has had to deal with very different opinions/preferences/systems of Tuna, Sparano, and Philbin. He has been asked to rebuild the same team three different times based on three different mentalities and two different owners.

Now he is trying to build for a 4-3 Defense and a West Coast Offense. That isn't going to happen overnight.

Jack,

I think the Redskins were crazy to give up the amount of picks they gave up for RG3 & it will come back to hurt them. People don't realize that although RG3 is extremely skilled he is not a BIG guy in terms of NFL size. Yes he's an excellent athlete & has a quick release but look at how the hits have started to take a toll on Michael Vick who is also a great athlete but not a BIG QB.

However for Luck--who was probably the best NFL prospect in the last 20 years--I'd have bet the ranch. I love everything about this kid--brilliant (the kid had a 3.5 GPA at Stanford), poised, mature, good size, & is a better athlete than people realize.

How is Philbin going to turn the Dolphins into the Packers, we don't have the Packers quarterback or the coach who designed and called their offense.
Posted by: Cual? | August 27, 2012 at 12:50 PM

Who's to think Tannehill won't step up to be that guy? Rodger had 3 years to sit on the bench and learn the NFL game so to expect Tannehill to throw up Rodgers-esque numbers this year or next is a little absurd. Philbin is building this team to be a class-act and a real football team. That's why we're getting picks for players that dont fit this mold. Of course there is a chance it fails, but from what I've seen I like where this is headed (again, obviously not this year but in the future I do)

Blog poll question of the day:

Who is the worst Miami Herald Blogger:

A. DC Dolfan
B. Odin
C. Craig M
D. Dashi
E. Yesterday's Gone

JS...

I'M here...in the MALLETT CAMP...

and whats wrong with him....is he suppose to UNSEAT Brady or something....

Belicheat took him....because he was SMART enough to keep US from getting him....

Seth...
Share that link please?
If true, i can't F-ing believe it.
STUPID.

Dashi9 promises Philbin will not be the HC next season.

And the point is Philbin isn't trying to turn the dolphins into the packers ... dolphins will forge their own path. and make a new way of becoming great ... watch and see :)

Donte Stallworth has been cut by the Pats, you think Miami would give him a tryout Coach Philbin??
Uh no, we have what we need to compete today. Now can we talk about trading Jake Long?? He said a bad word today and came into camp two pounds overweight.

Romney is not a Mormon hes a Moron.

Nevermind Seth.
Omar tweeting. Missed it.
STUPID!
Did he punch Ireland's momma?

Curious...
Since Vince Young was canned again, makes me wonder...

Where are all the fans that insisted we had to get Young?
And we had to get Mallett?
And we absolutely needed Flynn - I mean come on, he did play one really great game once, right?
And Henne didn't get enough of a chance, and we need to trust him with our future?
And Orton was the guy to lead us out fo obcsurity?

Those folks still around?

Posted by: JS_in_LA

because the fans on this blog dont know what they are talking about, and would make Jeff Ireland look like a genius if they were running the team .... relax people and let it play out.

I can answer that, it still would have been the right move to draft Andy Dalton or Colin Kaepernick or Mallett, to sign Flynn and even Vince Young.

Even though all of those players might have failed, the Dolphins franchise can't be fixed until they find a long term franchise quarterback, it's an undeniable fact.

And Ireland passed on all those quarterbacks in 2011 thinking he had "enough" in Chad Henne. Ireland was forced to reach for Tannehill and hopefully he works out.

But Jeff Ireland is his mentor's protege and has an outdated philosophy that doesn't put enough of a premium on the quarterback position. If Tannehill doesn't work out and Ireland isn't fired the Dolphins are in for another half decade of pain.

What???

How is Philbin going to turn the Dolphins into the Packers, we don't have the Packers quarterback or the coach who designed and called their offense.

Cual,

That was MiamiD20's post about us becoming the Packers of the AFC. I was just adding that we don't have Ted Thompson as our GM.

We draft Matt Barkley next year.

JS...

Curious to hear your beef with Mallett...

Vontae Davis = another Ireland bust

Sorry, Kris, but I've been watching Mallett. My opinion, but I haven't seen anything noteworthy, and neither have any of the broadcasters.
Besides the fact that he has a big arm (so did Jeff George, and JaMarcusRussell), what does he bring to the table to be a franchise QB?

I'm not even a Tannehill fan (skills wise) and I wouldn't start him over Tannehill. Tanny is smarter, and can at least outrun a nose tackle.

But, I give you credit for stepping up.

Posted by: Jeffrow | August 27, 2012 at 12:55 PM

No, I'm saying what I said, Mitt Romney was never arrested for drinking. He's a mormon for pete's sake...

Posted by: We Have RB's | August 27, 2012 at 01:00 PM

My bad, I'm an idiot.

So, now the team is trying to build through the draft. Just like Green Bay and New England has done. I say give it time.

As I said earlier we have some good building blocks with potential tha that we need to see prove out this year: THill, Devlin, Long, Incognito, Pouncey, Jerry, Martin, Clay, Thomas, Miller, Bush, Fasano, Bess, Lane, Solai, Starks, Odrick, Vernon, Wake, Smith, and Carroll.

We have YOUNG receivers who should be given a chance to play: Fuller, Mathews, Wallace, Pruitt, Moore and 7/11. I say let Nanee and Hartline go.

We need to see more from our LB's - Dansby, Burnett, Misi, and Guyton all need to step up. If they don't in a 4-3 scheme we need to get them replaced in the draft or Free agency.

I'd be fine sending Dansby off for a 1st or 2nd round pick. I'd love to enter the draft next year with a 1, 2,2,2,3,&3. I'd have no trouble getting starting level WR, CB, ILB, OLB, TE and WR.

Kris you are right about Dez Bryant.

Just maybe Jeff Ireland's (still tasteless) question was triggered by a the 'troublemaker' vibe that Bryant was giving off.

We have so much fun making fun of Ireland's boneheaded decisions that we don't give him credit for the even more boneheaded decisions that he has avoided -- decisions that were nonetheless taken by 'football geniuses' such as Pete Carroll and Jerry Jones.

Do we have any NFL players left?

JS...

he was a 3rd rd pick....Mallett isn't going to see the feild for his ENTIRE contract....

don't be surprised if I AM pounding the drum for MALLETT in 2 years.....

..JS...I was a Flynn guy. It is hillarious that Phin fans are rejoicing that Ireland "got over" on the rest of the league becuase we knew something the Seahawks did not..We probably did.. Everyone on the planet that was for Flynn coming here was because of his familiarity with the system..We can speculate all we want..Throw a Jeff Ireland parade because he passed on him..But nobody knows how Flyyn would have faired here, or any other team he may have signed with for that matter. I wanted Flynn because I thought he was a natural stop gap until we found our guy..This was with the idea we weren't going to draft Tannehill...A guy that I did not support before the draft(I believe you were anti Tanny pre draft too)..

Truth, if you look at Belechicks recent draft history (since Brady) they've been duds. Almost as horrible as Miami's draft picks since that time. I think after this season we ditch Ireland, get a more capable GM to draft and sign FAs and turn this thing around. We have the cap space and draft picks to do it and we do have to look at Ireland and how he managed that and give him a pat on the back...as he walks out the door. He may be a good acorn scout but that's about it. I agree he isn't the GM for us. But our 2013-2014 season looks pretty promising.

If we can get over the fact that this year is a lost year then we should actually feel pretty good about our team going forward.

Posted by: MiamiD20 | August 27, 2012 at 12:51 PM

Firstly, compared to the other clown I was trying to have this convo with, I appreciate the clarity & thought you put into your post. That was refreshing!

Now, the cap issue however is more cloudy. Yes, the expiring contracts will save huge amounts of money. However, the team is going to pay that money right back out.

Long - will eat up alot of space
Dansby will too, whether still here or released
Smith - will be looking for at least 3-4 times his present salary than what just expired.

10 rookie draft picks including, as of right now, a high 1 & 2 high 2's.

FA shopping to fill the massive amount of holes

They will pursue a trade or sign a big time FA wr after the season.

There isn't going to be much cap space after trying to resign Long & Smith & have to pay a WR & Dansby.

More bargain shopping like we've seen.

Ireland's bad drafts & signings will haunt this team for years. Next year is not going to be better than this year. I am almost certain of that.

Vontae Davis = another Ireland bust

Posted by: Dashi

you talk in circles Dansi... if vontae is a bust why then was it bad to trade him for a 2 and a 6 ?

Fool Dashi always explains himself and his view.

Now if u want to post more than just blind hate without explanation like u do. Then keep going.

And yes u are the only 1. U and ur personage

Ur just mad Dashi hasn't exposed a weakness in any of my arguments and if Dashi is wrong he is willing to concede he is wrong. Maybe that's what really bothering u about the Dashi?

"But Jeff Ireland is his mentor's protege and has an outdated philosophy that doesn't put enough of a premium on the quarterback position. If Tannehill doesn't work out and Ireland isn't fired the Dolphins are in for another half decade of pain."

If Tannehill doesn't work out & Ross continues to be the owner that might be the last straw with this team. I've been a Dolphins fan for over 30 years but other than Sparano's first season with Pennington as QB the last decade as been absolute torture.

Wayne Huzienga was the worst thing that ever happened to this team & unfortunately Ross has done nothing to give the fans confidence that he can do any better. This is a broken franchise that only a legitimate QB & a competent GM & owner can fix.

Is there any question the Dolphins would be a better team with Dez Bryant and not Jared Odrick?

Another thing JS....

I posted my thoughts on this blog...and Ohio's yesterday....i know you had see it on Ohio's....

so far...nothing special....maybe it gets better....

do you have any gripes with what I said....or do you agree....

Jared Odrick is ready to have a breakout season Cual... and Dez will still be nothing more than a B. Hartline ... so yeah you are wrong

If the players don't like Philbin, how is he going to motivate them to win games?

Philbin wants a team of choirboys, thats not NFL football thats pee-wee thinking.

No way out of this mess...The next players to go? Dansby, Bush, and Long -- players with talent, of course, that have personality.

Kris, my beef is simple. I am a rabid SEC watcher, and saw many of Mallett's college games. I never saw anything special in him besides a laser cannon arm. He was constantly beaten by pressure, and rash decisions. The game he was hurt, and Wilson took over, they played better.
Mallett is a street baller who used his arm gift to overcome his fallacies. Can't do that in the NFL.

Now, that said, he did look more poised and smarter his first few possessions a week or so ago. It's obvious good teaching from Belly and Brady have rubbed off. But when the chips are down, and he gets pressured, he goes back to his standard of forcing his will and gets him picked off, or sacked.

Should we have drafted him, there was not a person on staff with the skill or cred to even get mallett that far along. He would've been a king-szed bust instead of a project back-up with a lot to learn.

My opinion.
I'd take many QBs over Tanny, but I'd take Tanny easily over Mallett. Not even a contest.

...The truth is..I don't know this as fact..I may be totaly wrong. But aren't the incoming rookie salaries already accounted for when teams do their cap evaluations? I thought this was part of the CBA? I thought the new CBA said that rookie contracts could only be a flatline amount..So even if you had 20 picks(for affect) you had to pay those picks within the cap space set aside for rookies? Can anyone clarify? Am I totaly off base here?

Mando,
What's the condition on the conditional pick?

Thoughts in regards to Tannehill...

Dansby, Bush aren't going no where but i could see jake Long on the trading blocks

Cam Philbin one and done. The new GM will pick a new HC.

Sure, Kris. I'll comment on your comment about Tannehill. Give me a few minutes to write it, and I'll post it over on DolphinTalk.

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