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BOTH sides responsible for referee labor strife

I think everyone agrees the replacement officials the NFL is using while it negotiates (or sometimes doesn't negotiate) with the Nationall Football League Referees Union are not doing a very good job. Everyone talks about how the integrity of the game is being compromised.

Agreed.

And on that point 560-WQAM afternoon host and friend Jorge Sedano and I also agreed Tuesday during a segment of his show.

But that's where the agreement kind of ended.

You see, I'm of the opinion that in a negotiation it is up to both sides to concede points. It is up to both parties to give and move toward the other. That's why it's called a negotiation. And since I truly have no dog in this hunt, I think both the NFL and the NFLRA are responsible for hurting the integrity of the game by not reaching a deal.

Other media I hear discuss the topic always attack the issue from a standpoint of the NFL has a lot of money. Roger Goodell is Satan. And the league's owners should basically give the officials whatever they want or need to make them happy and end the labor strife.

ESPN's Rick Reilly makes exactly that case following Monday night's disaster in Seattle in which what was surely a Green Bay victory got turned upside down and ended with a victory for Seattle. Reilly opines that the result should move the NFL commissioner to do whatever he has to do to solve the impasse. It is the typical "the union is always right and the businessmen are actually the boogeymen" view from today's media.

Never do I hear that both sides -- I said BOTH sides -- are responsible for solving this and the officials are being as intransigent as the NFL.

Look, I think unions are good to a point. But I also believe in free enterprise. I believe free men have a right to conduct their business as they seem fit as long as they follow the law and appropriate regulations. And so I do not believe in telling the NFL owners they must cave because I don't believe in telling people what to do with their money.

I notice neither Reilly nor the players telling the NFL to settle are volunteering to chip in any of their personal funds to help settle the issue. 

Sedano didn't really disagree with me on this point, but he didn't exactly second my opinion. He and Reilly are probably hiding in the bushes outside my house to jump me when I come out this morning.

He made the point that officials should be full-time. Well, the union doesn't want to do this because that means most officials would have to give up their regular jobs and most don't want to do that.

I also made the point to him that full-time umpires in baseball get it wrong all the time -- ask Armando Galarraga who had a perfect game stolen from him or the St. Louis Cardinals who had the World Series stolen from them if full-time umpires are any better than the guys that called the touchdownception Monday night.

Sedano believes the NFL should pay the officials more. Well, the NFL has offered the officials a 2.5 percent pay increase. Not enough, the NFLRA says. Tell me, when was the last time any of you turned down a pay increase? Also, when was the last time any of you made an average of $150,000 --what the officials currently make on average -- in your part-time job?

There is also disagreement over pensions. The NFLRA wants its part-time employees to get full pensions. The NFL wants to offer a 401K type plan instead and says many of its full-time employees get this type of plan so why would part-timers get the full scholarship?

It is a very emotional topic. It is affecting the integrity of the game. But both sides -- repeating, both  sides -- have to work toward a solution.

Here's the weekly segment between Jorge Sedano and me. We also disagreed on Ryan Tannehill's game Sunday, by the way. I love that guy. Listen to his radio show every weekday 3-7 p.m.

Armando Salguero Interview - 9-25-12 (1)

Comments

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LC....

I didn't know that....

did the regular refs strike when the players went on strike last time....

I don't think they did....

I think these are two seperate unions...and thus...two seperate issues...

but I'll look around google for a bit....

I also think the NFL refs should be full time. But of course they don't want to give up their "other" jobs because most are lawyers and successful businessmen making six figures.

But not to defend the NFL. How arrogent do they think they are saying they agree that was a Seattle touchdown catch. That's called ****ing on me and saying it's raining. And I'm neither a fan of the Packers or Seattle and didn't have any bet on the game.

You know it's bad when any boarderline fan sitting at home on their couch can make these "disputed" calls in 20 seconds and it's taking the refs 3 minutes.

Ross is a cheap greedy SOB.

RE Coalitions comments at 5:24

I dont suppose you saw the superbowl a few years back between the steelers and Seahawks did you, when the seahawks got the ultimate jobbing by the "Professional Refs" if i remember right i saw some revelry on the part of the steelers and their fans...

How about the game the Jets beat the Seahawks when Vinny T didnt score the TD but the "Professional Refs" saw otherwise (just happened to knock the Seahawks out of the playoffs)... Again revelry was had by all the jets and their fans

Here's something a lil closer to home for ya how about the Saints beating the Fins in that game a couple years back the "Professional Refs" handed the Saints.

Maybe you prefer this one perhaps, when Big Ben fumbles into the end zone and refs call it a TD when it clearly isnt. You remember that dont you?

How about the catch Fasano "makes" to set up the 2nd touchdown Miami scored in Sundays game... All us fin fans enjoyed that didnt we?

My point is bad calls happen all the time and those people the bad calls help REVEL in it... That is called human nature take what your given and be happy...

In closing get off your soapbox and try not to be quite so hypocritical.

fasanos axx hit the ground 1st. catch over btw.

Armando, great article. You are right that both sides need to compromise. A fair agreement happens when neither side is totally happy.

Kris, I said BOTH sides have to move closer to each other and that is exactly what I meant.

On the money, the NFL has offered a 2.5 percent pay raise. And the officials turned it down because they want a 7-8 percent raise. I think 4 percent is fair. I assume you think that's me siding with the NFL.

As to the full-time nature of the refs, I could care less if they are full or part-time. All of them make mistakes. All of them. I don't see that as siding with anyone, and actually, more with the refs than the owners because the owners definitely want fulltimers.

So please, dude, don't prop up a straw man where none exists. It should be beneath you.

Lincoln, there are no actual pickets to cross. So that is No. 1.

No. 2: Players talk a good game about supporting the union, but when push comes to shove, they're about collecting their money and looking out for No. 1. Period.

Everything else is just noise.

Kris et al,
Unions do not cross each other's pickets.
That is what makes them effective.
If UAW is striking and the owners bring in replacements then it the refusal of the Teamsters truck drivers to cross the picket that shuts down the whole plant.
Without that provision management could always replace whoever struck them and the Unions would have no power.
Unions do have power because they refuse to cross each other's picket lines.
The Players (Union) is crossing the picket every game which means it is violating everything the Jimmy Hoffa died for.

There goes Jason filtering Obama's morning dump in his mouth looking for acorns and a kernel of corn or two.

Where's Kris? I want to hear his take on Mando's ridiculous post? "I don't believe in telling people what to do with their money." Yeah, too bad when people say that, they only mean RICH people shouldn't be told what to do with their money. Poor people, they just got to sit there and accept it. That's elitist thinking at it's worst.
Everyone and their momma knows this is just the rich, greedy Owners who want to dictate what everyone else does. As if they can produce a product all by themselves (without players, refs, fans). Owners are only ONE piece of the pie, therefore, guess what Mando, THEY NEED TO CONCEDE! I understand that compromise is a dirty word to a Republican such as yourself, but I haven't heard the referee union not wanting to compromise. I have heard the Owners say basically it's our way or the highway. Pretty easy for me to tell who's right and who's wrong. Maybe you're just blind Mando.

Posted by: DC Dolfan | September 26, 2012 at 09:07 AM

And you're plain plain DUMB!

What is clearly evident is that you are a jealous, bitter, anti-capitalist, left wing nutjob who thinks rich people are the devil & the government is your daddy.

How many poor people have ever given you a job? You're a pahtetic, useless, liberal baby. Oh those rich people are too rich wah wah wah.

You are a class A JERK

Listen Up Ford Pinto!

Dashi's STANCE ON THIS IS SIMPLE!!!

THE REF'S OVERVALUE THEMSELVE'S!

SPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE ON THE FIELD! REAL REF'S FEEL THEY ARE BIGGER THAN THE GAME!!

DASHI'S POINT IS TRAINING!!! MAKE THESE GUYS FULL-TIME! GIVE THEM CONTINUOUS TRAINING EVERYDAY!! MAKE IT THEIR JOB!

(To the Clown Comparing Players to Ref's. U have Never Played "A Sport" or Understand the Athletic Talent or Physical Skill to Play Said Game. U know the One were Said Athlete's go to work 7 Days a Week for 9 Month's out the Year.)

If The Ref's become full time Employee's is their a Need for a Union?

The League Doesn't want to Own the Ref's Because it Creates a Conflict of Interest. The Players Could Sue.

Now Should a Ref be paid More than a Player? Any Player? No! Hell No!

Specially when said REF'S have no Liability in their Performance. The REF'S Are not responsible for their Actions! Figure If I type it Twice in 2 different Ways, Maybe U will understand.

The REF'S SHOULD BE FULL TIME!!! AND ONLY THE BEST FOOTBALL REF'S IN THE WORLD SHOULD BE IN THE NFL! A Couple College Ref's are better than the old NFL Ref's.

ALSO A AGE LIMIT

Let's be Serious! We are not the Same at 60 as at 40 or at 20! At least A Full Physical and And Conditioning TEST. Check the Eye's!! Give them a Reaction Test! Make sure they Can Run and Whistle.

All kidding aside. The Ref's were bad then they are bad Now.

Didn't the Ref's blow a Call on Calvin Johnson Last Year?

U know when he scored a TD to END A GAME. And the OLD REF's looked at the Replay and called it Incomplete!

The Blog, from a blowhard like you, I take that as a compliment. But what you and Armando and everyone else needs to understand is, if it wasn't for unions, you'd be working in sweatshop conditions, with no voice to be able to do anything about it, working for $1/day like they do in China, no safety rules and regulations, and if you died on the job you'd be carted off and replaced SAME DAY!

Since you're probably living on your parents couch and eating them out of house and home, that's probably not important to you.

But to the MILLIONS (majority) of Americans who are NOT job creators, but work hard for a living, yeah, that's important.

And by the way, I've gotten PLENTY of jobs from poor people. The dirty little fallacy is only rich people own businesses. But since most people are employed by SMALL BUSINESSES, and those Owners a lot of times are just getting by, or middle class (maybe upper-middle), then that means the 1% really DON'T make the world go 'round.

I may be a jerk, but you're RETARDED, so what'dya think about that, scumbag?

Kris, that's why I wanted your opinion (thought you'd take that position). Well done.

As far as what Mando's saying, they should compromise at 4% (that seems fair to me). And actually I'd all for accountability (they want to be able to fire bad refs, I'm all for that).

I just don't hear compromise. I hear the Owners saying "we ain't budging." And I haven't heard anything from the refs.

But now that the ENTIRE COUNTRY is talking about this, we'll see what they do in the next few days.

Also, when was the last time any of you made an average of $150,000 --what the officials currently make on average -- in your part-time job?

Well, this is the NFL, not the regular world. For the revenues the NFL generates, that $150,000 salary is like probably $30,000 in our world. And pensions have always been paid to referees, why change now, if it's not broken?

Unions are what make this country great for the labor masses, what strengthens the middle class. Do you know that salaries became stagnant when Reagan came to power, and have remained the same but productivity has increased? Since then, with deregulation and other right wing shenanigans, now we have a 1% that controls like 80% of the wealth. Do you also know that tax deductions on unemployment checks and taxes paid on Social Security pensions started also with Reagan?

So, yes, we want a free enterprise country, but we need a government with the eyes really open so we, the working stiffs, don't get the shaft.

kris, look what u did,
u went and pixxed off armando.
lol

Well said Art. Also, in a minute or two, we'll start getting the "isn't this supposed to be a football blog" posts. Just so we're clear, we didn't start this. Keep the topic on football, and we'll do the same. Veer off, and that's when you've opened a can of whoop *ss!!!

What the LEague has to do Is Show a Plan for Full Replacement It would calm the Fans Down. And that the REF's ARE BEING TRAINED VIGOROUSLY!

On the Contract with the Pro Ref's

Now let's say the League gives them a 4% Increase. They also Give them a Retirement Plan. AT what another 4%? or 3%? A Year! Remember Most NFL REF'S Officiate for over 30 years!! That's a Pretty good Chunk! And They want to stay Part Time?

Dashi Thought Only FULL-TIME JOBS CAN HAVE UNIONS?

They can Work during the Week. A couple days studying film. Then The Ref's can Practice During the Week at any of the 32 Teams Practicing that Week. It would help both the Team and The Ref! It would Also help the Product on the Field!

Guys Easy the Debates next Week

LOL Dashi! Ok, I'm done.

As far as this weekend, I'm worried about Patrick Peterson. Not sure Tannehill knows what's in store for him, hope he's ready.

Also, I'd like to see Bush AND Miller on the field at the same time. Maybe with Bush in the slot, Miller in the backfield. Let's get some formations that will get the defense off-balance.

And if we don't start sacking QBs, it's going to be an even LONGER year than it already is.

DC and art you sound like two idiots. The labor union and the players are looking out for number 1, they don't care about the outcome of games or unions or whatever else ruins your day. They are laughing at the Seattle game and laughing at you for dealing with these refs. The NFL makes a ton of money and should give them what they want so everyone shuts up. Refs should also shut up sine they don't know a thing and just wear stripes and should be grateful. They get paid to put up with yelling and bullshyt LOL

Mel, oh right, the refs aren't being paid because Ross alone doesn't want to pay them, right, are you stupid or what.

thanx ab, u answered my q 4 armando.
bush on bike.
lol

If Bush ends up sitting out, this could be Lamar Miller's chance to solidify the back up running back role, and eventually causing Daniel Thomas to be put on the trading block. Check out why below at phins news.
http://phinsnews.com/lamar-millers-chance-to-shine/

isn't that art.turf out in az.?
bush, that stuff don't give.
lm X's...

Art, first it's not $150,000.00 it $150,000 X 7 x 30 which equals about 31,000,000.00 annually. That doesn't include pension contributions form the league. The league wants to convert their Defined Benefit Plan (pension) to a Defined Contributory Plan (401K). I really don't see anything wrong with that. Only 18% of large businesses offer traditional pension plans nowadays. Most pension plans offered by companies a 401k's, so why should the refs be any different.

YG, if it was only so easy. You need to follow the posts to see what Art and myself were responding to. But in the end, you're right, it shouldn't be that hard. If the union wanted an 8% raise, and the Owners wanted to give them 2%, then meet in the middle.

But compromise doesn't work that easily nowadays. People are too greedy, people think they're too powerful. What's the reason for the ref union to cave now? They see it's a mess, they're now even more willing to hold out for what they wanted. Same as the CBA last year, Owners talked tough, all the way until they realized they had to give a little, and then the deal was done in like a day.

If the Owners REALLY want to be tough, why don't they terminate all the old ref contracts, then start a new pool or refs from the ones they have now. This Season would be lost, but offseason they could train them up and get them ready for next year. If they were truly the gangsters they thought they were, that's what they'd do. Instead, they'll hem and haw and whine and demand, all the way until they realize they're losing, not winning, and then a deal will be done.

We'll see how many games are affected by then.

Still need a QB.

From what I've heard on NFL network the real sticking point isn't the hard dollar salary issue, it the pension issue. The NFL doesn't want to be stuck paying an implied interest rate 20 years in the future when the pension plan hasn't earned enough to pay the implied rate.

I'm so glad we took care of the receiver issue threw the draft. After three games our receivers have caught how many tds? Can u guys count them?
This is not shocking. Bess and hartline have horrid td number throughout their young careers. The rest aren't really receivers just playing so on tv.

Why would anyone trade for Daniel Thomas? We only drafted him because of the Kansas st connection, he wouldn't have went till the 5th round otherwise, and no one wants him. Try trading our 1 and 2 pick that year, odrick and misi. Won't get jack for them either.

D Thomas = worthless

Why would anyone trade for Daniel Thomas, well I will tell you why they would. He gained over 570 yards last season more than only 2 rookie runners. He gained more than Mark Ingram, Mikel Leshore, who were drafted in the 1st. More than Ryan Williams. And he's a good pass catcher.

D Thomas will be cut but they're delaying it so Irescum doesnt appear as stupid as he is.

Really Jason, haven't you heard he's starting next game. And you get your information from where.

When Irescum traded 3 picks for D Thomas the draft room broke out in hysterical laughter.

He traded 2 picks a 7th and a 5.

Zonk and you were in the draft room. Really.

Oh and he gained 200 yards in his 1st 2 games before an hammy hampered him the rest of the season.

mike, starting one game for the lowly Dolphins is not a ringing endorsement. Go see Chad Henne who started for 3 years! LOL

3 picks mike

2 picks they the 3rd was switched for a 2nd. They gave up 2 picks. period.

After all was said and done they had 2 picks less than what they originally had.

Screw the dumb union zebra's. Quit crying and take your $150K. THe days of bloated pensions are gone. The guys are part of the biggest game in America, quit crying. You know how many people would kill for your jobs???? Art and DC Dolphin fan are complete idiots. Quit crying that the mean mean rich people are why you are still in your moms basement.. Be a Jets fan, it suits you better. I am sure you clowns are Obama supporters. God help us all!!

Clearly, Ryan Tannehill is a complete bust.

I don't care that he had limited college experience or is a 22-year-old NFL rookie playing on a rebuilding team with the worst set of starting receivers in the league. I say CUT HIM NOW!

The Dolphins (and all other teams) should listen to me because I am an EXPERT based on my YEARS of experience sitting on my fat butt watching football on TELEVISION in a delusional, drunken blur.

D. Thomas is a bust, he runs to upright and has the fumblerooskies

For Dumbo mike,

FROM FINSNATION......Ireland made the call and traded the Dolphins #79 pick (3rd round), #146 (5th round), and #217 (7th round) to the Redskins for the #62 overall. The Dolphins trade 3 picks for Thomas.

1) 79th pick(3rd rd)

2) 146th pick(5th rd)

3) 217th pick (7th rd)

Free enterprise means the laws of supply and demand apply, so the REAL refs are setting their price higher because they know that their work is better, thus it is more valuable to the NFL. The GREED from the NFL is the same greed of corporations killing jobs here and shipping them overseas, they are not willing to pay the going rate and look for cheaper alternatives. Be my guest...

Clearly, Tannehill has been very dissapointing. You dont expect the 8th player in the entire draft to be dead last in QB rating. YIKES!

CA Dolfan, the only Republican left in California. ROTFLMAO.

The rest aren't really receivers just playing so on tv.
Posted by: inimounts | September 26, 2012 at 12:12 PM .
lol

thomas = bust.

keep thomas on the sidelines and the phins should win @ the cards.

So mike, tell us which one of these 3 picks didnt we give up? LMAO!

1) 79th pick(3rd rd)

2) 146th pick(5th rd)

3) 217th pick (7th rd)

cheap ross lets that penis with glaxxes ruin this team.
lol

wersh my friendsh ODISHEYEZ?? or COALISHUN or wha ((buuurp)) what ((buurp)) whaever he's caalin hisheff today?? Me 'an him pashed out lash night in his trai ((buurp)) trailer an I puked up my vo ((buuurp)) vo ((buuurp)) vomit all over hish carpet before we kished a little ((buuuuuurrrrp)) bit.

DC DING-A-LING,

You are clueless! Since your from DC, this isn't a surprise.

Most small business in this country are NOT middle class or poor people. Talk to financial people or accountants!

Most of them make too much & by gov't standards are considered top income earners! As the spouse of an accountant dealing everyday with small businesses, she would know. Hardly ANY of them, struggle.

POOR PEOPLE DON'T CREAT JOBS!

Yea unions are great! They provide shelter for employees with tenure with no regard to how they perform their jobs!

They have helped GM become the sham & financial mess that they are today.

Here's a funny story. My friend, shamed to say, works for unionized Verizon as an Installation tech. He's been out of work since Oct of last year sitting on his fat a*s eating waffle fries & playing Xbox because he's had dizzy spells. Dr's find NOTHING wrong with him but the union keeps him home, sucking money from the system without putting anything in.

Do you still wonder why states are a financial mess?

Now faced with having to return to work, he's filing a complaint to keep staying home with guess who? THE UNION!

You sound like a jaded, jealous, fat, lazy government worker on the take.

Ask yourself why Unions have the power to force a recall election in Wisconsin. Are they a political party? All unions have become are Mercenaries for the Dumbocrat Party!

Then ask yourself why Walker won by a wider margin after taking on Unions. Ask yourself when employees were given the option to stay or leave the union, why 60% left!

People didn't use to come to this country for their fair share. They came for an opportunity! You have the same opportunity to make something of yourself & create wealth. Because you are fat, lazy & stupid doesn't mean you are entitled to what everyone else, including myself, has earned.

This is what's wrong in America. People like you!

Since when is it American to demonize wealth & success? Since whiny Liberals decided they are entitled to a piece of the pie just cause they live here.

Wanna know why there are a lack of jobs in this country? because business of all shapes & sizes are over taxed & are going over seas. Most of my wifes clients have money but because of the DOPE in the WH, they are sitting on money instead of investing or creating jobs.

STAGNATION!

America, in 2008, was #1 in global competitiveness.
2009 - 2nd place
2010 - 3rd place
2011 - 4th place

Do you get the hint yet? Do us a favor, re-elect the incompetent moron representing this country & unions again & let's talk again in 4 years.

Until then enoy your Unionized America!

CA Dolfan, the only Republican left in California. ROTFLMAO.
Posted by: DC Dolfan | September 26, 2012 at 01:01 PM

DC Dolfan, 1 of many dumb liberals in DC.

FAH-Q

Zonk The number 2 pick was switched for our number 3. We didn't trade our 3, we switched positions. We gave up our 5th and 7th to make the switch.

Uh, dude this is a lock-out not a strike. The refs aren't refusing to work, the owners are trying to union bust. At the end if the day they are arguing to what amounts to four thousand dollars a game or 2 million in 8-9 billion dollar /year industry. So these douches are willing to degrade the game & put players physical safety at risk for 4k/ game. I guess they need the $ to buy extra ivory back scratchers. How on earth do unions interfere with free enterprise? Or are employees not free to contract? Or I guess in the free market only owners have the right to dictate the terms.

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