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Cardinals beat Dolphins 24-21 in OT

GLENDALE, Ariz. -- Yes, it was disappointing because games are not played to come close or be entertaining.

And the Dolphins did lose this one, 24-21, on a 46-yard field goal by former Dolphin Jay Feely.

But ...

Entertaining?

Yes.

Uplifting?

Check.

Promising if you think that better things can happen down the road?

No doubt.

Yes, the Dolphins lose today. But the fans that saw this fine game won. And the future won because this team showed something today -- at times, anyway.

Comments

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Didnt Smith say that he and Vontae could be the best tandem in the league?

Ireland needs to grow a pair, admit his mistake, and cut Naane. I don't care how good he is on S/T, he's a liability. That was like his 2nd catch of the year and he fumbles it. Carpenter is toast too. Once kickers start missing kicks multiple games in a row, they typically become head cases and never recover. If he makes his kicks Miami is 3-1. Finally, add any of the CB's worked out last week because they would be an upgrade over Nolan Carrol.

Having said all that, nothing will change because Ireland is clueless. Sigh

How could of we "Ripped off" Indy when we didn't even use the picks yet? LOL!!

Indy is 1-2 right now, with a bye this week. Should they continue to lose, the Vontae deal could be a pretty high 2nd rd pick.

I don't even know what point you're trying to make, Montreal.

Did I ever say fans don't have a right to be upset? When and where did I say that?

They have EVERY right to feel however they want to. You think I'm happy with the franchise the past decade?? Are you kidding?

I think you need to hit the reset button and take a deep breath. I'm not arguing that point AT ALL. I'm merely pointing out that the fans don't know crap about how to fix things. C'mon, why is that so hard for us to admit?

When is Carpenter going to make a clutch kick? When are our corners going to turn around when the ball is in the air? Often times they have good coverage but just don't play the ball enough if ever and it costs them. Does no one teach this to them? This happens with Marshall and Carroll CONSTANTLY.
They played a good game today. Sure they made some mistakes but there are encouraging signs. They need to avoid the costly turnovers which are too commonplace though.
Tannehill sure looks like he has "it". Bush is running well. Add a couple of pieces to the offense, namely a playmaker at TE and a bona fide # 1 WR and the "O" would be in good shape.

Thing is, as soon as we let Naanee go, the Jets or Pats will pick him up to debrief him on our offense. The they'll cut him too.

Andrew Says:
Why did we need a TE? Fasano is fine. Egnew can't even make the active roster. He'll be gone like Clyde Gates after a year. Why did we need Lamar Miller? We already had Bush and Thomas and Slaton.
=====================================================

Ireland can not indentify skill players. The same problem that his mentor Parcells had. I do not trust the acorn GM to find the right talent even with so many picks and money to spend on FA in 2013.

My hope is that we stick with these coaches and players and don't allow the fairweather fans to dictate who stays and how goes. We had to much turnover that last decade and need to stay the course.

The future look bright!

Bad Karma around Ireland.....

Dump Naanee and Armstrong, bring in Plaxico!!

Football Knowledge, this is a football blog...It's ALL ABOUT fans talking about what they think is right and wrong...What did you expect???

YG,
They don't need naynay to find out about our offense.
all they have to do is watch the games and they'll know our every formation and play.

Fat Hank, did you read my suggestion re Ireland earlier?

Thimble,

He's getting that info right out of the Vontae Davis Fan Club. Promotes all things Vontae.

Listen, I was high on Vontae Davis coming out of College. We had needs on this team and he was EXACTLy what we needed. Only thing is he didn't deliver. So let's keep talking about 'potential' with this guy. At some point, he'll be a 30 year old washed up cornerback who everyone will say 'he could have been something'. Whatever. Some guys get it, some guys don't. I know which one I feel Vontae is.

Thimble,

football outsiders (who also ranks Sean Smith very highly----I agree he is the better of the two.) But you need AT LEAST two good corners these days. You won't find any posts on here where I rate Davis over Sean Smith----Smith is our only good second round pick in a decade it feels like.

Craig, going years between high picks on corners is ignoring the position. Trying to plug the safety gap with low picks and castoffs is ignoring the secondary. Why do you think we struggle to stop passing teams year after year?

Yes, I think Pouncey was a bad pick. He's a fine player. But spending a mid first round pick on ANY interior offensive lineman is flawed thinking. The first round is for guys who put the ball in the end zone or can cover the elite skill guys of other teams. I think Odrick was a bad pick. I think Misi was a bad pick. I think John Jerry and John Martin were bad picks. Other teams find lineman gems deep in the draft and use the high picks on guys who MAKE PLAYS. I think Ireland's entire philosophy on how to build a team is inherently flawed.

Just the idea that he would trade away our best WR (even if B-Marsh was flawed and dropped balls at bad times) and not address the position until THE SIXTH ROUND should make alarm bells ring.

redsky, no what time was the post?

If you placed Vontae's brain inside of a hollowed out B-B, it would rattle and shake all night long.

Armstrong + NayNay + Clay = 1 reception

promichael,

'Ireland can't identify skill players'? Would that include Bush, Tannehill and Miller?

Just checking. Wasn't sure what you meant with that comment.

Here are Davis' advanced stats:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/player/22172/vontae-davis

Notice the insanely good yards per play stats in 2009 and 2010.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2011/worst-cornerback-charting-stats-2010

Now, here's an article stating Richard Marshall was one of the ten worst CBs in the NFL in 2010.

Yeah, Montreal, I'm fairly well versed that this is a football blog where fans give their opinions.

Isn't that exactly what I'm doing?

Fat Hank here it is just for you sir....At times like these, when the Dolphins seem to be cursed, we must ask ourselves, "What would the Mayans do?" Well, they'd make a human sacrifice....I nominate Ireland for that honor!!

All these people whinning about wins and losses this year are the REAL "Closet Homers".

It's because they really, deep down, expect all the wins. They're just too pussified and wussified to admit it. So they spend their days polluting this blog, totally afraid to post what they REALLY think.

It must suck to be a Closet Homer-ROTFLMAO!

This is a re-build year. We took a GIANT chance on Tannehill, investing all this time and the High Pick. In his fourth game he LIT one of the best defenses in league up! Our investment looks like a Baller. It looks like we're FINALLY set at QB for the next decade.

But you Closet Homers knock yourselves out-LOL. Go Ahead, get own down with what ya'll do BEST:

Whaaaaaaaaaaa-WHINE-Whimper-LOL!

I mean, I can't possibly be the first Dolphins fan who has brought up the fact that we use our high picks on the wrong positions.....can I?

Yesterday's Gone--(lol) wouldn't Vontae need an actual brain for that to happen?

Andrew--AGREED you need two quality corners. No dispute on that at all.

I'm just saying Vontae really wasn't EVER that good and judging by his play in Indy is quickly heading to oblivion.

I have no problem with them dumping him for draft ammunition. To me, he was a waste of time.

Andrew,

We'll disagree about this idea that you don't use high picks on interior linemen. Not sure where that's written but whatever. I'll trust guys like Parcells and Ireland over you, seeing that they've actually trained to do the job and you haven't.

Part of the reason that Bush is able to run for 180 yards and Tannehill is able to throw for 400 yards is because of the solidificatin of the line. If you want to foo-foo that because it's a centre, then go ahead but that's not an accurate statement.

And you're giving this organization heck because they haven't drafted any corners high the last few years? Didn't you just give them heck for 'drafting a TE in the third round when we didn't one' and 'drafting a running back in the 4th when we already had Bush and Thomas'. Isn't this the same thing?

And I asked the question who should they NOT have drafted so that they could have draft another CB high? You still haven't answered that one.

Well, considering that every QB who plays us lights us up (even Kolb and Sanchez), I do have a problem dumping him for ammunition that will most likely be wasted on past precedent.

I notice there is a lot of people here defending trading Vontae but not a peep about Ireland's second round track record. What good is a draft pick that will be probably be wasted?

No, Vontae was not a star. But he was very, very competent in his time in Miami and Marshall and Carroll are incompetent.

Just keep that in mind as teams light up our secondary week after week. If Ireland can find a quality CB in the draft next year, then great I'll come admit I was wrong. But if Vegas was setting a line on his draft record, they'd be agreeing with me.

D Thomas had 4 yds on 4 carries. Most homeless persons could do that.

I gave you a list of overdrafted people Craig. It's not written, it's common sense because interior lineman are available later always.

It's not the same thing. Most teams play three and four WR sets a lot these days. So you need lots and lots and lots of quality corners (especially since it's the NFL and injuries WILL happen). I would have rather seen a CB over Egnew or Lamar Miller or Misi or Odrick. But, to be honest, I'd rather have seen a safety there more than a corner. We did have two above average corners....Miami hasn't had an adequate safety in coverage since Louis Oliver.

My ignoring the secondary comment is far more based on the complete lack of attention paid to the safety position than the fact that Miami didn't do enough to develop more depth at CB. Look at our current third and 4th corners---Carroll and Wilson. Both AWFUL.

Andrew,

'But he was very, very competent in his time in Miami and Marshall and Carroll are incompetent'.

Seriously bud, you can't really have blinders on like that can you? If Davis was competent why would they go out and add Marshall in FA? Do you think this team has a personal vendetta against Davis? Do you think they wanted him to fail? Or do you think that they got tired of his lack of effort, missed assignments, late for meetings, slacking it in practice attitude? I think these guys know a LOT more about Vontae Davis than you and I. You and I see what he does on Sunday. They track what he does day in and day out. Good enough for me. Again, I'll trust their judgment over yours.

If he has been paying attention to the secondary, why are we the only team in the league that makes Mark Sanchez look good?

Either he has waited too long to provide depth at CB and completely ignored safety----or he sucks at evaluating those positions.

good one redsky

Ireland's draft record is mediocre at best. Fully aware of that.

But I must also say this. The generak fan consensus would be that the Patriots draft superbly year after year, would it not? How many would disagree with that given their tremendous success?

Yet if you look closer you find that they miss on picks a LOT---just as often as anyone else.

Know what the difference is? Sheer VOLUME. They know damn well they are going to miss on plenty but tilt the odds in their favor by having MORE picks year after year by shrewd trading.

They have been doing it for years.

Am I suggesting Ireland could do the same? No. I have no crystal ball, nor do you or anyone else here. But I CAN say that stockpiling picks is a PROVEN way of building a consistent winner.

If they can get that going, it's something that can sustain itself with or without Ireland doing the picking.

Good conversation, guys.

I gotta run---really wasn;t picking on anybody.

We all want the same thing.

Actually, Craig, I think that's exactly what happened. I think they don't like Vontae---Philbin clearly cares more about swearing and untied shoelaces than most. I think they placed too much emphasis on his flaws while ignoring what he did on the field.

Your argument is also circular. If Marshall was so great, why did Arizona let him walk? If Marshall was a good replacement, why did football outsiders rank him as one of the 10 worst CBs in the league?

What on Earth have the Dolphins accomplished in the last 15 years that makes you think that their judgement is better than a random fan on the internet?

D Thomas = worthless

Andrew,

Every single team around the NFL has horrible corners. It's a passing league. Bills gave up 52 points at home today and they're supposed to have good corners. High scoring game between NO and GB. That's what good QBs do. They light up secondaries. Me? I'd rather focus on pass rush and getting to the QB. We have a limited number of picks and dollars to spend in FA. My priorities in no particular order would be pass rush, WR, TE, safety and THEN CB. WE can mask some of the problems we have in the secondary with the right players added.

Vontae?

Didn't he have 2 int's in three years of service?

Didn't he play on teams that went 7-9, 7-9 and 6-10?

I know it wasn't all Davis' fault, but he never did much of anything while here. No game changing plays, no nothing really. Barely avg.

We're not satisfied with avg anymore. we're rebuilding and I'm glad to see Davis gone.

This season Marshall already **ALMOST** has as many int's as Davis had all 3 years here.

At first I was a little nervous about trading Davis. But thats not a move I'm going to whine and cry about. I'm happy with the TWO picks we got for him.

I mean I guess that's what this boils down to----you guys trust the Dolphins management against the weight of all the available evidence. I hope your faith is rewarded but I prefer to deal in track records and statistics and trends.

Have a good night.

Andrew,

Your comment at 11:10 is the dumbest thing you've said all night. Philbin is here to win games. It's what allows him to keep his job and get a new contract. If he thought keeping Davis around helps him get those wins then he'd keep him around. Obviously they felt, as was shown in Hard Knocks, that they don't think he's that guy and they'd be better getting a 2nd a 6th for him. I happen to love the move.

Dashi thinks Philbin is another Cameron.

He is losing the locker room.

Another TE, Craig? Seriously?

Last post, but I can't fathom having ANYTHING above WR, CB and safety. We are good against the run and can run the ball. We only throw it well sporadically and we can't stop the pass at all and it's a lot more about coverage breakdowns than it is the d-line (who do a good job).

Everyone judging this season on wins is missing the fact that this season is/was always about Tannehill is growing as a QB. We all knew this the second he was named the starter (and arguably before that if Moore didn't suck in the preseason and blow the starting QB gig). Everyone shouted 0-16, 1-15 blah blah blah and now you're shouting that it's all about wins. No, it's not....yes we want to win but we're presently playing for the future

Posted by: MiamiD20 | September 30, 2012 at 10:05 PM

'------------------------
Miamid, I have to think that if a 2nd rounder (probably where Tanny would've gone) like Dalton can take his team to the playoffs, some fans may have hoped the same for our Fins.
Wishful thinking, SURE. but stranger things have happened, and this is the strangest year in the NFL I can remember, since the replacement players.

Craig,

Dammit I swear last post. If Philbin's job is to win games, then his philosophy of coming in and trading away his best WR and his 2nd best CB (even though IT's A PASSING LEAGUE!!!!!!) is pretty dumb.

I'm sure Philbin thinks that high character guys will equal wins. That seems to be his M.O. I don't disagree with that philosophy. And since or secondary keeps getting torched by the DREGS of the NFL QB position, I feel ok about my leanings.

Andrew,

You don't even know Philbin? What track record? If he doesn't want guys here because he doesn't think he can win with them then great. It's his neck. Why would I not trust him? They didn't win with DAvis or Marshall here, so why keep them? He obviously felt that they wouldn't buy into what he wanted, so why are we even debating this? Again, he knows a lot more about this stuff than you and I.

Thing is, as soon as we let Naanee go, the Jets or Pats will pick him up to debrief him on our offense. The they'll cut him too.

Posted by: Yesterday's Gone | September 30, 2012 at 10:45 PM

-------------
YG, I swear to the Almighty I was going to post the above.
That IS a Bellicheat thing, and they need wins like anyone else.
Weird thing is, a 9-7 record might get you a wildcard in the AFC, usually unheard of.

Andrew,

I want a pass-catching TE to start over Fasano. He's never been anything more than average. To me this would be a great way to help Tannehill out. If we can add a guy like Finley in FA, at a reasonable price, I'd be OK with that too.

I LOVE the fact that we had 8 sacks and TONS of pressure(Even Shelby was getting good pressure).

And coincidentally enough, Sean Smith gets two picks.

A loss is a loss and there is no way around it. But the front 4 played like MEN today and made the secondary look alot sharper.

It sucks having to rebuild, but I'm CONVINCED they got this thing going in the right direction.

I'm surprised more people arent talking about Tannehill. I have TONS of crow to eat on this one. The most important position. The most difficult to fill. And this Kid looks like the Real Deal.

From Game 1 to game 4 it's like night and day. Like a Duck to water. He was looking off receivers, going further through his reads, showing touch and accuracy.

This loss hurst, sucks, were cursed, etc, etc. But just witnessing Tannehill's progress takes away the pain.

Think about it. We tried Beck, Lemon, Culpepper, Green, Henne. Just to name a few. Tannehill already looks better than all those guys put together.

I think this team is improving although our kicker has lost both games for this team!!! I know we are rebuilding and I think we are doing well and I've been very critical of these guys. But really I think it's getting better. Yes we are making mistakes and our young QB is throwing some picks but I'm feeling not so bad!!!! Our secondary on defense is giving away some big plays and that needs to be better but hartline is shaping up and I'm thinking it will get better!! Another free agency and draft and I think we will get better. Lets watch this team this year. There are all new coaches and players but I feel good about where we are going!! I still don't like Ireland but lets see. Don't expect so much so fast and you won't be disappointed. Lets see and give them some credit they are doing some good things and not everything is bad. Just my opinion.

Andrew we are not drafting O-line or D-line high for the next 3 years Unless he's a Top 5 DE!!

Ireland Will draft Skill position High for the Next 3 years!!!

WR, CB, LB, S, TE

Craig,

First off from Armando himself:

COACHING

Three minutes to play. You lead, 21-14. You have a second-and-8 at the Arizona 41. They have been blitzing all day and getting the QB. Why are you passing? Why? Why? Why? Run the football. Run clock. Gain field position. Play the percentages. Instead the Dolphins passed, Tannehill got sacked, stripped and Arizona took over at their 49 yard line.

Sure, Miami didn't win with Davis or Marshall but that hardly means they didn't win because of Davis or Brandon Marshall. That's not logical.

You trust Philbin and Ireland more than me. Great. I don't, particularly Ireland who has a long history of terrible picks and mis-valuing positions.

I'd trust Philbin a lot more if he had traded Vontae and then gone out and traded or signed someone else to play CB. Nolan Carroll HAS NO BUSINESS ON A NFL FIELD. If you are going to trade Vontae, you at least need to find someone else to make sure that Carroll doesn't have to play 50 snaps a game.

You seem like a fan....do you watch the games? Do you notice that teams throw at Nolan every time he steps on the field? I trust the scouts of other NFL teams more than I trust you and those scouts are clearly saying: Throw at Nolan Carroll at will because he sucks big time.

So, fine, you don't like Vontae, you think he isn't worth the trouble, ok. I disagree, but ok. How can you be fine with them not going out to get someone else? You can't go to war with one great CB (Smith), one below average CB (Marshall), and two guys who probably should be in the CFL (Carroll and J. Wilson).

If he wanted to win games this year, he has a funny of way going about it.

Dashi, why would Ireland change his philosophy now? Everyone was SURE he would pick a WR after jettisoning Brandon Marshall and yet he didn't.

Assuming he will do logical things is illogical based on prior experience. Safety has been a giant gaping hole for YEARS and we are still taking OLs, DLs and RBs in the high rounds.

And if the Dolphins are rebuilding, it would be nice if ANYONE in their front office would have the guts to admit it. You trust the front office so much Craig, they themselves are ADAMANT that this is not a rebuilding year.

Guess you just trust them sometimes.

Dammit I swear last post. If Philbin's job is to win games, then his philosophy of coming in and trading away his best WR and his 2nd best CB (even though IT's A PASSING LEAGUE!!!!!!) is pretty dumb.
I'm sure Philbin thinks that high character guys will equal wins. That seems to be his M.O. I don't disagree with that philosophy. And since or secondary keeps getting torched by the DREGS of the NFL QB position, I feel ok about my leanings.

Posted by: Andrew | September 30, 2012 at 11:18 PM

Andrew,

I fully get what your saying. Getting rid of good players because they don't fit your mold is tough to swallow. Especially good players(Marshall, Johnson, davis.....).

But, just like Parcells had his archaic prototypical requirements, so too do this new Group of Coaches.

It's definitely a controvesial philosophy in my opinion. But, were going to live or die by it regardless.

The one thing I will say in Philbin's favor. If you're going to make cuts like this......DO IT NOW........and get it over with. Move on and look forward to rebuilding this team. And thats what I think he's done. I'm glad he didn't drag it out.

promichael, next year EVERY TEAM is getting a fairly substantial windfall as regards Cap space. we won't be the only team with the figure you quote, which I believe is inflated, as we will have some hits based on cuts we may make in the off season.

We all agree (I believe) that game changers are needed at CB/Safety, TE, WR,, and perhaps PK. A shame there.

That said, I'm focusing on THIS year. When has our team played so aggressively on BOTH sides of the ball?
Just have to cut down the TO's\. and maybe dial down Sherman's adrenalin a bit. LOL

Thing is, as soon as we let Naanee go, the Jets or Pats will pick him up to debrief him on our offense. The they'll cut him too.
Posted by: Yesterday's Gone | September 30, 2012 at 10:45 PM

ImaWriter,

I'm not worried about this happening.

Naanee can't run, catch or hold onto the ball.

I seriously doubt he knows much of the offense-lol ;)

Andrew,

First of all Armando works in the media. He doesn't know how to put teams together or game strategy. Now if you want to put your stock in what he thinks then fine. I'll put my stock in guys who's built teams before and who coach.

You keep ignoring the fact they went out and added Marshall from Arizona at $5 million a year. Not sure why you are ignoring this but you are. To be honest, there's very little between Marshall and Davis IMO. The team saw it that way too. For all the good you get with Davis you have a whole lot of bad to deal with too.

THEY DID SOME GOOD THINGS !!!! Give them some time!!! I'm optimistic and I don't care what anyone says I'm looking forward to see this team progress!! And I've been very CRITICAL!!!!

Craig,

I'm not ignoring it, I'm pointing out that he was rated as one of the 10 worst corners in the league in 2010 and Arizona couldn't wait to unload him. I think Davis over his career has been FAR better than Marshall. And Marshall has been completely terrible since he's been here. That doesn't even touch the worst part; they didn't get anyone else to help replace Davis which meant relying on Nolan Carroll. I don't see many people taking issue with that part of my argument for good reason. He doesn't have any business in the NFL.

Again, you want to put your stock in a GM with a track record that's terrible and a coach who is continuing the Dolphins new tradition of losing every close game always. That's your perogative. The part about the play call was the only part from Armando by the way. The rest was me. I hope we can all agree that throwing the football there given the overall situation is stupid.

Coalition, you're right that Philbin is principled. I hope that works out for him. So far, his biggest controversial move as head coach was letting Davis go and rolling the dice on Nolan Carroll at nickel back. That's worked out TERRIBLY by any reasonable measure.

He did decide to start Tannehill which seemed obvious to me (but I saw a lot of people disagreeing with it for some reason) so I guess you can give him that one.

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