« GM Salguero's outline offseason plan | Main | What I want to hear from Stephen Ross »

Failing on in-season extensions sometimes a win, sometimes a loss

The Dolphins are on the clock between now and mid March when free agency kicks off because they have between 15-17 players that are unrestricted free agents that they can sign before the free agency market opens.

And I'm told the club hopes to get some deals done before the deadline, which is wise.

Of course, the club tried to get some deals done during the season and didn't exactly succeed there. As you read here last week, the only in-season contract the Dolphins signed in 2012 was locking up special teams and backup Jason Trusnik to a two-year extension.

I was told by one club official that in-season extensions are overrated. I was told the club is convinced players do not become more expensive.

Well sometimes that is true. And sometimes that is false.

Before the 2010 season, Paul Soliai asked his agent if he (the agent) thought he could get Soliai a $2 million-a-year contract. The agent, David Canter, said he'd try. Canter and the Dolphins danced around all season on a contract extension even as Soliai worked himself into the starting unit and then started playing well.

Miami's contract offers were consistently behind the curve of how their player was performing. And that hurt the team in the wallet because after the season the Dolphins ended up putting the franchise tag on Soliai to keep him from going into free agency. That cost Miami a $12 million cap hit.

And before the 2011 season Soliai ended up signing a deal that pays him $6 million per season. So, yes, a $2 million-a-year deal would have saved the team a ton of money and cap space over a three-season span -- $6 million over which Soliai would have initially been happy to get, compared to the $24 million he's actually costing. 

This season the results of Miami doing only one extension are mixed.

The club offered in-season extensions to Matt Moore, to Jake Long and to Brian Hartline. All were what agents would consider "low-ball" offers.

On Matt Moore, the team tried to lock him into a backup quarterback deal. Although no numbers were exchanged because the Dolphins were coy about that, the Moore camp decided it would be better off waiting until after the season because Moore is hoping to compete for a starting job somewhere.

So no deal resulted in this: Moore will hit free agency with the hope someone gives him a chance to compete for a starting job. The Dolphins could not offer that.

But Moore might have been convinced to sign a Miami extension if he'd gotten assuranes (incentives) that if he somehow took over the starting job -- through injury or other circumstance -- he'd be paid like a starting QB.

Didn't happen. So no deal.

I call the failure to do an extension here a push. It neither helped nor hurt the team.

The team also offered Long an extension well before he broke down (again) and finished the season on injured reserve. The offer, I'm told, was a handsome deal for most left tackles but for Long, who has been used to being the highest-paid offensive lineman in the NFL, it looked like a step backward.

He didn't take it.

Well, Long didn't play all that well in 2012 when he was healthy. The guy is diminished, no doubt about it. He used to do conditioning drills to start the season with linebackers. He can't do that anymore. He doesn't move like that anymore.

And, of course, Long eventually ended up on injured reserve for the second consecutive year.

So now the Dolphins have a better body of evidence of what their player is, rather than what he was. Early in the year, the team could convince itself that Long was irreplaceable and valuable and that his recent injury history was happenstance.

But Long added another injury to that history, making it seem more like a trend, and when he went out, the Dolphins replaced him with relatively no problem. Rookie Jonathan Martin did not play at a Pro Bowl level taking over at left tackle. But neither did the offensive line fall apart without Long.

(By the way, Long wasn't playing at a Pro Bowl level before he got hurt).

And going forward, the club has a solid idea that Martin can get much better through offseason weight-training and conditioning, experience, and a full training camp at LT. So Long, who still wants to be paid like an elite left tackle is a luxury.

I call the failure to do an in-season extension with Long a blessing. He's not as good as he believes he is anymore. He's not worth the kind of contract he was holding out for, given that I don't see him getting better and more healthy as the injuries stack up. This one was a win that offers the team wiggle room to either retain Long at its price (unlikely) or let him walk to a team that needs a left tackle and is willing to pay handsomely for Long's reputation (more likely).

The team offered Hartline an extension early in the season. The receiver, through his agent Drew Rosenhaus, has been trying to get an extension since 2011. The Dolphins rebuffed those overtures and I understand why: Hartline was a complementary player and could seemingly be replaced cheaply in the draft.

But this year, given a greater opportunity, Hartline posted a breakout year. He was probably the most consistent and best weapon for the Miami offense. (Yes, Reggie Bush started well and finished strong but he was absent the middle part of the season).

Last year when Hartline wanted an extension, he could have cost the Dolphins between $2 million a year. Earlier this year, he could have been signed for $3 million a year.

The price is much higher than that now.

Hartline performed despite missing all of the offseason camps and training camp. He had a breakout year with a new offense and rookie quarterback. He's 26 years old and entering his prime. He's likely going to get better but certainly isn't going to decline.

The Dolphins cannot replace him easily in the draft anymore. Frankly, no rookie receiver is going to walk in and be able to play all three WR positions, show good hands, go for 1,000 yards and have a 14.6 yard per catch average. Just doesn't happen unless the rookie's a freak.

In this case, the failure to do an extension with Hartline will cost the team more money and cap space assuming Miami opts to re-sign him.

So three players. Three in-season contract extension offers. The Dolphins won big on not signing Long, lost big on not signing Hartline and pushed on Moore.

 

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

And all of you that want to crown martin, go back and even watch the games against Jax and Buff and even when they weren't sacks, watch how many plays he was being pushed back and destroying the pocket. I would be shocked if that number was less than a dozen between the two games. And that indicator was brought to full BRIGHT LIGHTS against a competent front seven like the pats. You can hide one mediocre tackle, but you can't hide two. And it's poppycock that Tannehill was holding the ball too long. There was no assemblance of a pocket all day while his royal highness Tom Brady, could have decided to play in his shorts and no helmet if he wanted to.

After the Long issue is resolved I am of the opinion that we will once again see that the NFL is a business and the average career dosent last long so the player will usually play for the highest bidder.

"....The line as it stands is a joke without him."

Mark,

The O-line was a joke with him too. Please name ONE game where the O-line played well with Jake.

Pro Football talk reported last week that Percy Harvin will probably leave Minnesota. Anyone think this a playmaker that would interest Miami?

Long's breakdown also "recreated" another long since problem. Now were suddenly back to a wrecked rightside of the oline. It was like a godsend Martin's been able to take over lt, but we're back to square one of the drawing board on the right side.

I thnk John Jerry has reached his ceiling as a player, regardless of what position he plays. His current ceiling is still not quite good enough. Garner? Completely destroyed in the last games against the Pats no matter who they had pass rush on his side.

IMO, we're right back to square 1 on the entire right side of the oline once again.

WHDPS,

One of you best posts ever on here @12:28pm.....not kidding!! A lot of very good points in there.

Maybe we're not as far apart on our thinking as you might think.....LOL....scary thought!...LOL.

Craig,

Let's put it this way, if there's a hole ANYWHERE on this team in 2013, I'm PRAYING it's on the oline. Because that will mean we have receivers, TE's, RB's, for Tannehill to throw to and hopefully he won't need as much time to get them the ball. That would mean we have pass rushers and CB's so hopefully Tannehill won't need to score every possession.

Bears had an issue on their line, AND THEY WENT 10-6. I'd burst with semen if this team could go 10-6 for once. The line can be fixed LATER IMO. There's linemen in EVERY Draft. But for the Miami Dolphins, it seems they can't just snap their fingers and get WRs or TEs. That's been plaguing this team as long as the QB position has. We finally last year did something to try and fix the QB position. Now it's time to turn our attention to the other skill positions. If the oline has to wait a year, SO BE IT! I won't shed a tear.

HAVENT I BEEN TELLING YOU GUYS THIS? NOW ARMANDO, BACKED UPPED BY EXPERT OPINION TELLS YOU THE EXACT SAME:

Mark, when I look at a defense -- better yet, when NFL people look at a defense -- the ultimate factor to judge is points allowed. Not yards allowed.
Games are won and lost on points score/allowed not yards gained/allowed.

And at the time the the Dolphins played SF, they were giving up the fewest points of anyone in the NFL. They were the No. 1 defense in the NFL because they were giving up the fewest points. Ultimately, they finished No. 2 to Seattle.

Posted by: Armando Salguero | January 04, 2013 at 12:28 PM

ENUFF SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2013/01/failing-on-in-season-extensions-sometimes-a-win-sometimes-a-loss/comments/page/2/#comments#storylink=cpy

RE: Talent increase/decrease without Jake:

Forget the last season. It's passed.

For this coming season, the Dolphins can be MORE talented without Long. I say this because if they choose to re-sign him, it will peel off around $6 million off their cap space, assuming he gets the kind of deal most high-caliber LTs get as free agents. He'll be making approximately $8-$9 per year. Maybe $10M.

And what do you have? A declining guy that has been injured the past two years (late in the year) when good teams are heading to the playoffs. He's a non-contributor for the playoffs or a playoff run.

I say the Dolphins would be MORE talented using that money and cap space on a playmaker who actually scores POINTS (very important). Jake Long neither scores points nor gives them up. But Jonathan Martin neither scored points nor gave them up this year.

OTs are complimentary players. But the Dolphins have been paying their LT like a playmaker. That's whack!

The Cleveland Browns did the same with their LT. How's that working out?

It's bad management.

Grunts should not be at the top of your salary cap board. QBs, WRs, CBs, Pass rushers, maybe RBs should be at the top of the cap board.

So, yes, the Dolphins can use the cap space you'd use on Long or his replacement and use it on a guy that scores points and has a greater influence on wins and losses. And thereby they have added talented by getting rid of Long.

To further Mark's point at 12:31pm,

Don't think that getting rid of Long, moving Martin to LT and adding someone new to RT isn't going to change your line. It is. Line contuity in the NFL is very important. Ever wonder why our OL sucked under Sparano? It wasn't just because we didn't have the players, it was also because we kept tinkering with it and moving guys around. The line was good earlier this year, and I'm not buying the argument that it wasn't. Long had a couple of bad games but so has Martin but for the most part the line was pretty good this year. Guys want to say Long was bad because Long gave up 6 sacks but what he was typical of what you see in the NFL with other teams.

I'm just saying, you guys want to start playing musical chairs again with the OL, don't expect it to be a cohesive unit from day one. It doesn't work that way. Everybody knows that. Expect Incognito's play to drop off at times and Pouncey and Jerry. I'm calling it right now.

"Great post....

This is the type of move successful teams seem to make quite often. They know when the time is right to let a player walk....

Even a player like Jake Long."

Signal,

Yep. Like the Texans did with Mario Williams. It doesn't mean that Mario was a bad pick, it just meant that the Texans didn't think he was worth the money he was asking for after they broke the bank for him by taking him Number 1.

The old draft was out of control before the new CBA & totally inflated a player's (let alone a rookie player's) true value. There's NO WAY you can justify the Saints Reggie Bush paying $9-10 Million dollars a year or us paying however much we spent on Ronnie Brown...The system was broken & I'm glad there's a rookie pay scale.

CalvertonStation,

Percy Harvin has always been an injury waiting to happen. The Vikes are probably happy to let him walk. He seems to be more st's than starting wr anyway.

No thanks to bringing in Harvin to be a primary wr.

Excellent point YG4E.

DC,

The Line Isn't the Problem But It Will be if We Let Jake Walk!! And The Line Would Only Need To Fix The Guards!! If Jake Stays!

Jake Was A Zone Blocking LT Coming Out of College!! Michigan ran a Zone blocking WCO, Under Lloyd Carr!! Mike Hart Scored 27TD's His Last 2 Years Just Running Behind Jake!!

So can we Please Stop With the Asinine Comments about Jake Doesn't Fit the Scheme!! Cause it is entirely Not True!! Jake Didn't Fit Spo's Scheme!

Now You Guys Want Screens and Sweeps! And all Those Outside run Plays!! WE NEED ATHLETIC GUARDS!! The 2 Fat boys We Have at OG's!! Suck!!

Why Can't T-Hill Step Up In The Pocket?

Because Only Pounce is Manning The Middle!!

WHDP,

I actually agree with your post about not overpaying for guys at the end (or breaking down). However, I disagree now and forever that you pick an OL instead of a QB with the #1 pick in the Draft in today's NFL. Maybe that would make sense in the 80's. Maybe for a team that hadn't tried 17 (or whatever) other players at that position and couldn't find a keeper. But Miami had ONE right choice that year, and it was Matt Ryan. Sorry for anyone who doesn't see that. It would have been the right choice EVEN IF he turned out to be a bust (which I doubt he would have). Because without a QB, you have ZERO chance to win in today's NFL. Every year, evidence keeps supporting that fact, though many here wish not to acknowledge it.

Dashi,

See Mando's post @ 12:37pm. It might be the best post ANYONE ever wrote on a football blog EVER! And it tells the whole story.

Either your best player is a LT and you're the laughingstock of the league, or your best players are skill position players and you're in the Playoffs.

Now which would you prefer?

Yesterday & Armando

Harvin had only missed three games prior to his injury this season. He is 24 and had almost 1000 yards last year (2011). He is a great returner. Not sure why the negativity.

Armando,

The Dolphins paid Jake Long what they paid him because that's what the old CBA DICTATED they should pay him. That's what happens when you have the first pick under the CBA. It's not 'whacked'....they had no choice...that's the rules.

Now going forward, I don't believe any one on here is saying he's a $10-12 mil a year player. Again, you and I will disagree that Long is 'declining' and Hartline 'will get better'. There's no way of knowing those things. They're not 'etched in stone'. They're based on health and at this point time and circumstances.

I admit Long is not the player he once was but I'm not prepared to say he cant play better than he played this year. None of actually know what his issues are and what he's gone/going through. All I know is at one point in time he was one of the best, if not the best LT in the game. Anybody feel that's going to be Martin?

To EVERYONE here who's #1 priority is re-signing Jake Long, please give me an example of another team in the NFL, in the LAST FIVE YEARS, who's best player was their LT and they were consistently in the Playoffs.

I'll wait as long as you need.

"I actually agree with your post about not overpaying for guys at the end (or breaking down). However, I disagree now and forever that you pick an OL instead of a QB with the #1 pick in the Draft in today's NFL. Maybe that would make sense in the 80's. Maybe for a team that hadn't tried 17 (or whatever) other players at that position and couldn't find a keeper. But Miami had ONE right choice that year, and it was Matt Ryan. Sorry for anyone who doesn't see that. It would have been the right choice EVEN IF he turned out to be a bust (which I doubt he would have). Because without a QB, you have ZERO chance to win in today's NFL. Every year, evidence keeps supporting that fact, though many here wish not to acknowledge it."

DC,

There will be AT LEAST three OT's & three DT's taken before a QB in this draft.

You don't take a QB just to take a QB when the QB prospects aren't very good. That's how you wind up with Brady Quinn. I believe we FINALLY had a chance to take the right QB last year at Number 8 & I'm glad we pulled the trigger. Was he reach at 8 b/c of his lack of experience??? Yes but he's a very good athlete, he's a tough kid, & he's very smart.



DC, good point as I cannot name any. I agree line cohesiveness is important but build around Pouncy and Martin not Long.

I know I'm being lumped in the we can't live without Jake Long group but that is not truth. I'm firmly in the Johnathan Martin is a big flabby puss of a left tackle group. It's not so much that I live and die with jake Long - it's that I think (and my comments go back to camp with this guy) is that Martin just isn't man enough to play left tackle right now. True left tackles may get finnessed or pushed back on occassion but none get bull rushed by cornerbacks. None are used as lawn darts. None are pushed back into their QB on each and every single play. They win battles, not just merely hope to tie their opponents at best.

I've gone on record here MANY times as saying jake Long wasn't the right pick from the start. However, I also saw him make 4 pro bowls. And unlike some people I'm not ready to completely write him off after one mediocre season because I am in no way qualified to make that decision as opposed to many doctors we have on this blog who have personally inspected the man.

I also don't beleive in paying him astronomical money because I think very few players are worth north of $10M that are not QBs. I also realize that losing Jake also creates a hole in the roster. Unlike losing Starks or even Bush - we do not have a ready made replacement available at left tackle let alone right tackle. If Martin gets injected beyond belief this offseason and becomes even an average left tackle (which he currently is not) then you still have an issue at RT. Now where are you going to find a starter there? Either in the first two rounds of the draft or free agency. In the draft means forgoing a pass rusher, WR, TE, CB or S that you could count on to give you good mileage next year. It doesn't make the team better. At best you hope for the team to at least tread water at the o line position. Your team is not improving if that's the case people. To me the most palatable replacement would be to sign someone to the tune of $5-6M in free agency to man a tackle spot. So either way, you're going to have to pay.

And unlike a lot of people here, I am not going to overlook a 7 sack performance in week 17. As opposed to being an anomoly, I think it's a harbinger of things to come if we don't address the current o line without Jake. We will become the Chicago Bears there, mark my words, if we don't invest a pick in the first two rounds or a significant free agent.

Sorry for the long winded post, but I'm being described as person who can't face facts and somehow attached to Jake Long when that isn't the truth at all. I'm merely describing what I see.

Armando,

When I checked nfl.com I saw the Dolphins defense finished 5th best in points allowed, unless my eyes decieved me. Even at 5th best that doesnt suggest the defense needs to be addressed very early, espectally not at #12 like some here suggest.

There are even those suggesting address defense with 2 of our 1st 3 picks with thier mocks.

The primary problem is we're 5th best in points allowed and 27th worse in scoring points. Had our defense been as terrible in this area. We easily finish 0-16 with 1st overall pick in 2013.

Sorry DC, I think you're big time underestimating the importance of an OL. This isn't Arena league football. Are you honestly telling me that Brady would be able to do all the things he does with that offence with a mediocre OL in front of him? Not a chance! You have to keep your QB upright and give him time for the plays to develop. He's a great player but he has all day in the pocket. Must be a coincidence, right?

Calvertonstation,

In addition to the normal football injuries, you never know when Harvin's migraine issue may pop up.

Tannehill will get killed without Jake Long.

One other point, DC, I've yet to see ANYONE on here who's said 'resigning Long is the number one priority'.

Can you tell who is saying that?

WHDP,

I agree to not sign Long. He's still a good LT but he needs to go to a power blocking team. You give Long 2 guys to knock down he'll go knock them down. But if you ask to pick guys to block on the go he's just ok.

You mention several sacks in the NE game and the QB holding the ball too long. I say lets get some people in here that can get open and he won't need to hold the ball too long. This will also cure a lot of the OLine issues.

It is plain and simple folks, we need WR's that can get open and ones that demand double coverage.

We also need a TE that can strecth the field a bit.

DC is a moron. He wanted to draft sophomore Klowney!! LOL

And Mando, if you consider points allowed as a defense as the baromter, then you are also saying we have a top defense in the league and I certainly take issue with that. We had an average defense at best.

CalvertonStation,

Harvin will always have "DURABILITY ISSUES" in the nfl. He's like a buck 85 soak and wet(185lbs). Sooner or later a db will lay him out.

Ty Hilton looks like a find for the Colts. He's smaller than than Harvin. However, because he's so small, I dont believe he's going to be a "longterm" find for them.

These smallish type wr's just dont seem to be nfl longterm answers over the l;ongterms. Eventually thier bodie give in to the high demands of such a physical game. Heck, its tough enough on the bodies of much larger players.

Gents,

Harltine is the perfect example of what you want out a drated player (4th rd). He has steadily improved each year and finally had a breakout year this past season.

He is money player if not one with big play potential. He is a consumate pro who has the trust of the QB and he is just now entering his prime.

You add another veteran #1 type guy opposite Harline (Jennings or Wallace) along with a seam threat TE (Ertiz from Standford) and Hartline is only going to be better and more productive.

Let's put it this way.....if you sign Jennings or Wallace and let Hartline go....who do you replace him with? Who has the capability of playing all 3 WR positions assuming Bess will always be best coming out of the slot? Who else has the rapport with the QB that Harltine currently has?

Armando,

If you're still around. I just want to make sure I have you on record on Jonathan Martin. You're happy with him as our LT? I don't have his stats in front of me but he gave up how many sacks at LTs in the games he played? 3? 4? So that translates to 12-16 a year, right? Would you say that's good enough play from your LT? Keep in mind, as Mark has alluded to, that's only sacks. That doesn't take into account hurries and knockdowns. So for a guy, who many on here have told us, is a 'natural LT', that doesn't worry you a bit?

Our D was excellent and kept us in most games. Tannehill led the league in 3 n outs putting undue pressure on the D unit. So the stats dont accurately reflect how great the D was.

Yesterday

Wes Welker weighs 185 and is 2 inches shorter than Harvin...just saying...

Posted by: Armando Salguero | January 04, 2013 at 12:37 PM

if I hadn't been saying the same things for over a month I'd say, couldn't have said it better.

2ndly, whoever used the LOL name to call DC a moron, shame on you!

And re: Points vs yards allowed, the top 5 defenses in the NFL in yards allowed were:

Pittsburgh
Denver
SF
Seattle
Chicago

In points per game it was

Seattle
SF
Chicago
Denver
Atlanta

Considering Pitt was 6th in points allowed, it's basically the same usual suspects. Are we really going to have this argument?

It stands to reason that if you don't give up yards, you don't give up points.

Mark,

We do have an average defence at best. I also take exception to this notion that SF is the second best defence in the NFL. I watched them get lit up like Christmas trees when they played NE, Seattle and NO. On top of that, they played two games against powerhouse offences like St. Louis and Arizona, offences that don't scare anybody. They also had the Jets and Bills on the schedule and I don't have the rest of their games in front of me.

So yeah, one of the better defences in the NFL, but I don't believe the best.

Drafting Jake Long was a mistake...We had a shot at a franchise QB but our MANAGEMENT, including our current GM, failed to see that...They preferred Chad Henne and Pat White instead...With their BS wildcat...But having said that, one of them is going to be a HOF (Parcells) and the other one still has a job (Ireland)...While people like Reid, Smith and company lose their jobs...LOL!!!

Craig, I'm not underestimating the importance of the OL. I just don't think it matters until you have something to protect. And right now, we don't (and haven't for a long, long time). We have a rookie QB, young and big and strong who right now is mobile, so he doesn't need a line to give him all day to sit back there like a statue (like Brady does). Not saying we can do him like Houston did Carr, but he didn't get killed from 37 sacks. My point is he'd be FAR BETTER OFF with more weapons to pass to than blockers right now. Fix that FIRST. Then go back and tinker with the line.

As far as who's saying line is #1 priority, many would assume lots of folks here feel that way because that's been the main topic of discussion for the last few weeks (since Long got hurt). If folks have higher priorities, it sure is strange they aren't vocalizing them louder than they are the Long issue.

WHDP, considering we were in the thick of things up until the Indy games playoff wise and were a very good rushing team in the first half of the year - I would hardly consider that line a joke. But anyways, some of you think Johnathan Martin is an NFL left tackle. Good luck with that.

Craig, when you say Long is not the same as he was before, by definition, you are admitting he is declining. Believe your eyes, bro.

What I wrote -- he used to do conditioning drills with LBs, can hardly move now -- is no joke. It is a snapshot of what's happening to the guy. Torn arm muscles are no joke. They often haunt and happen again.

As for him being the best LT in the NFL, my point that everyone seems to be missing is this:

You do not need the best LT in the NFL to get to the playoffs or even the Super Bowl. Please, somebody tell me who played LT for New England last year? Who was New York's LT last year? Were they the best in the NFL?

Do the Colts have a great LT? WAshington? Cincy? Minnesota? Green Bay?

Stop thinking like it is 1990, people.

Solid left tackle and premier playmakers is tons better situation than HOF LT and solid playmakers.

It's 2013. Time to think like it, Dolphins fans.

Like Ive been saying, draft a wr with a 1st or 2nd rd pick. Same with TE. I would love to have any of the top 3 TE's in this draft. At least one of the top 3 wr's.

Also to replace Hartline(is he overvalues himself), draft Bailey/Swoop, which ever's still available. This is also why I favor trading down 1st rd and picking up an extra 2nd rd pick. It would give a total of 3 of those.

My 2013 recievings corps looks like this:

WR's:

Jennings, one of the top 3 2013 draft wr's, Bailey/Swoop

TE's:

One of the 3 top 3 2013 draft TE's, Fasano

Mark, you're saying sign a LT for $5-$6 million. Be better than that. Name names.

Who?


Armando

It was the 1990 thinking by Parcells which got Long drafted number 1 in the first place...


Armando,

If you're still around. I just want to make sure I have you on record on Jonathan Martin. You're happy with him as our LT? I don't have his stats in front of me but he gave up how many sacks at LTs in the games he played? 3? 4? So that translates to 12-16 a year, right? Would you say that's good enough play from your LT? Keep in mind, as Mark has alluded to, that's only sacks. That doesn't take into account hurries and knockdowns. So for a guy, who many on here have told us, is a 'natural LT', that doesn't worry you a bit?

Posted by: Craig M | January 04, 2013 at 12:57 PM

Man, you are THICK!!!!!!!!!!

All offseason Martin trained to play as a RT & 75% of the season he played as a RT.

Considering he is a rookie, who ALL agreed wasn't ready to be a LT, and was able to slide over & admirably do the job without any offseason training, relearning footwork & technique, you REALLY are gonna get on him for bad play?

Jesus man! Did you think he'd work miracles? He was a rookie playing a position he didn't train or prepare for until an emergency! Cut the guy some slack!

Why did you need to see instant gratification? How long have you waited for other guys to develop & learn the positions?

DId you do that with Marlon Moore? You asked to see more of him! Why? Because he hadn't played alot? WELL SAME WITH MARTIN AT LT!

BE FAIR & OBJECIVE AS HARD AS THAT MAY BE FOR SOMEONE LIKE YOU!

Armando: this is a fair assessment on how Ireland dealt with Long and Hartline. I'm no Ireland defender, but I think he got it right with both given the information at the moment. He was right to low-ball Long (just to stall) because Long had already shown signs of wear-and-tear last year. As for Hartline, he was absent all of the offseason and preseason. You have to go by the info you have at that time. So Ireland was right to hold him off. If anything, it probably gave Hartline an incentive to have the break out season. So, yeah, he deserves bigger pay for it.

Thank goodness Ireland didn't pull the same bone-headed mistake like the Bills did with Fitzpatrick.

Soliai did nothing to earn a raise at that time so that example is poor. Not even his own mother could have forseen him developing that way

Armando, AMEN...You should tell that to Mr.Ross...Maybe that would be enough to convince him to fire Ireland...We'd get a break from all the Longs, Merlings, Lanfords, Pounceys, Jerrys, Murphys, Odricks, Martins and all the rest of them...Good God...

Fin77, Tannehill played the final four games of the season without Jake Long.

He lived.

And the Dolphins were 2-2 in that span. They were 5-7 with Jake Long.

Wow, I had no idea that KC fans also hung a "Fire Pioli" banner on the back of a plane flying over the stadium too.

DC,

If its salary cap space You Guys Are Looking For!!

CUT THAT HUGE HOLE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DEFENSE!!

Yes, Jake Might Have Been Hurt The Last 2-3 Years! But Who's Fault is That Really?

Spo!

Now, Jake Hasn't Had 1 Offseason To Train And Practice!! And Yes! That Might Not Sound Important To Some!! BUT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT!!

This Year! Jake Got Hurt!! And Philbin put Him On IR!! Jake Will Be The Healthiest! And Best Conditioned He Has Been Since His Rookie Season!! Thanks To That!! Jake Will Have The Whole Offseason To Get His Strength Back!! For Once!! Just Look at R. Marshall!! He Came To The Fins Hurt! Now that Philbin Took Care Of Him!! R.Marshall will Play To His Full Potential Next Year!!

Players Get Hurt! And Play Thru It! But If You Really Want To Get Injured (Sometimes Permanently)!! Play Thru The Hurt!! A Sprain Will Become A Tear!! A Tear will become Career Threatening!!

Philbin Knows This!!

Spo Didn't!! That is Why D.Wade ...

My Bad Wrong Spo! Same Sh''!!

Jake Will Be Worth His Money!!

Now, Not Saying Ireland Shouldn't work His Magic and Low Ball Him! Try to get Jake at The Right Price!! With a 5yr Deal!! That The Fins Can Cut Short After 2-3 Years! If Jake Keeps Declining!!

Jake is not T.Bosselli!! Bosselli had Degenerating Shoulders!! For Playing Thru The Injuries!! Injuries Never Got A Chance To Heal!!

Jake Would've ended Up The Same Way If Spo was still Coach!!

CalvertonStation,

Last post on Harvin. Harvin's listed: 5'11 184lbs. Welker's listed 5'9 185lbs.

You tell me which has the more stockier compact build?

Seems Harvins taller, leaner. Welker's shorter, bulkier.

DC....

I agree on Armando's rant.....how can it possibly be said any better...imo...it can't....

I have said many times to Craig M and others....

16 TEAMS have made the playoffs EVERY year for the past four years..

4 of those TEAMS have won the SB....

ZERO (0) of those TEAMS have had ALL-WORLD Jake Long playing LT for them....

Mando, it's kind of nuts. People see it EVERY year. Last year, Giants vs. Pats, 2 worst defenses in the league, 2 passing teams. Year before, Green Bay. Saints. All these examples of how teams win in today's NFL (dominating offensive air attack). Yet it's hard for these fans to understand they need skill position players above all else. Are they watching what we're watching? Or are they watching old film of the Parcells-led Giants? I dunno.

By the way, I can vouch for Mark, he gets it (about the need for skill position players). He was clamoring for a QB with me all those years where others wanted anything BUT!

Armando,

I got your last point. Where we differ is this notion that because a player plays badly in a season, he can never recover and get better again. Not saying a torn arm muscle isn't a serious injury but would you agree that the injury Pederson had last year was serious as well? The guy just came back and ran for over 2,000 yards and will very likely win the MVP. If I'd told you that will happen this time last year, you would have called me crazy. But it happened. Does it mean, the same thing is going to happen with Long, of course not. But there's not one of on here that are doctors, who've actually seen the medical records and KNOW what will happen with Long in the future. We're all guessing....and it's OK to admit that.

I here this argument all the time about who was the LT of this Super Bowl winner etc, etc.....and sorry it's bunk! What you're saying is, it's not important to have a good OL and to protect your QB. It's not important to give your QB the time to play. So why the Hell would care about drafting a DE/OLB first round then?

This may be 2013, but it's still about having a QB that will be given the time to get things done and on defence GETTING to the other QB. The game hasn't changed THAT much, otherwise there wouldn't be people in the game that have been in it 25+ years still.

Craig, excellent point regarding the Pats at the OL. yeah, they have weapons but have also invested heavily in that o line. Both their tackles were first and second round picks.

Mando, for Dashi's sake, PLEASE let us know if the team has ANY plans trading/replacing Dansby. If he's on the team next Season I don't know WHAT Dashi will do.

I know Dansby isn't Philbin's favorite guy. Is that enough to axe him?


This Year! Jake Got Hurt!! And Philbin put Him On IR!! Jake Will Be The Healthiest! And Best Conditioned He Has Been Since His Rookie Season!!

Posted by: Dashi | January 04, 2013 at 01:10 PM

Don't be so darn naive! Everybody, including Jake himself, said that coming into this year!

Did you forget he ended last year on IR & supposedly came into this year in the best shape? How did that trun out this year? BACK ON IR?

Did you forget he should have finished the previous season on IR too but, played with a seperated shoulder?

Jake is a BROKEN DOWN man! THat is not a knock, it happens to all of us! I hope the idiot Ireland has more common sense than some of you here!

If you all had your way, we'd be paying millions to a guy who isn't that great anymore, doesn't score & would probably not play an entire season anyway.

IT's moves like that why this team has sucked for so long!

Long's contract should be divied up to address the enormous holes everywhere else on the roster. The dolphins will be a more complete & better team as a result!

"You mention several sacks in the NE game and the QB holding the ball too long. I say lets get some people in here that can get open and he won't need to hold the ball too long. This will also cure a lot of the OLine issues."

Texas,

Actually...I didn't say that. The game was pretty much over in the first half. I think it's a miracle that Tannehill made it through the entire season. The running game was very inconsistent & he had two WR'S & a blocking TE to throw the football too.

My guess is that if he was holding on to the ball too long it's b/c no one was open. With Bess not playing the last three games & Hartline banged up he had even less people to throw to. I think Matthews has potential & is probably the 3rd best WR on the roster but it's not like he was a part of the offense for very long. Hard for Tannehill to have chemistry with a player that didn't have an NFL catch until the middle of November...

« 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 »

The comments to this entry are closed.