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Fine TEs important 20 years ago and today

At the dawn of NFL free agency, the Dolphins saw Keith Jackson dangling there, available and talented, and decided to be aggressive and chase him as their first unrestricted free agent addition.

Why, people wondered, would the Dolphins want to add a tight end -- especially an expensive one?

The Dolphins had Ferrell Edmunds on the roster and he was solid. And Mark Clayton and Mark Duper were still on the team and both were coming off 1,000-yard seasons in 1991.

So why bunch talent at TE? Why take catches away from twin 1,000-yard receivers? (The last question was also asked by Clayton, but that's another story).

"Adding talent whenever you can ianywhere you can on the roster is something we're going to do," Don Shula said. "If there's someone out there that can help us and fits, we'll try to get them. And adding a tight end helps the passing game, helps the running game, helps the receivers get more one-on-one matchups and helps our quarterback. Those are things we like to do."

And so the Dolphins landed Keith Jackson and four days after arriving in Miami he caught a TD pass against the Bills in a 37-10 whipping of the defending AFC Champions.

Fast forward to today. I'm at the Super Bowl. I covered the AFC Championship game last week.

You know what I see?

Teams with pass-catching, seam-threatening tight ends.

The four conference finalists had good if not great tight end play this season.

The Falcons had Tony Gonzalez, who caught 93 passes for 930 yards and eight touchdowns.

The Patriots had both Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez, who combined for 106 receptions, over 1,200 yards and a whopping 16 touchdowns.

The Super Bowl teams also have excellent pass-catching tight ends.

Vernon Davis is a tight end that runs like some wide receivers. He runs a 4.4 in the 40 and can get deep. This year was a down season for him as the quarterback change from Alex Smith to Colin Kaepernick resulted in more passes going to Michael Crabtree.

But Davis still had 41 receptions for 548 yards. He averaged 13.4 yards per catch, which is a wide receiver-type average, and scored five touchdowns.

The Ravens, meanwhile, offer Dennis Pitta, who is really starting to emerge in his third year with the team. This year Pitta caught 61 passes for 669 yads and seven TDs. The Ravens have always recognized the need for outstanding tight end play as they drafted Todd Heap in the first round a decade ago and went to the Super Bowl with Shannon Sharpe.

The point?

Successful teams recognize the need for excellent tight end play and they find a way to add that to the roster. The Dolphins of yesterday tried free agency when it was in its infancy, the Falcons traded for Gonzalez, the Patriots drafted not one, but two outstanding tight ends and Gronkowski came with the 41st overall selection. The Ravens have a history of finding fine tight ends as their general manager Ozzie Newsome was a great tight end.

Today's Dolphins, meanwhile, have been chugging along with mediocre tight end play.

Oh, the club's coaches will speak about Anthony Fasano in glowing terms. He's a fine blocker. He doesn't make mistakes. He's got great hands (sometimes). He's like a coach on the field.

But the thing they can never say is that he's a seam threat that worries the defense and is a matchup nightmare. They don't say that because it is not true.

The Dolphins have used resources to improve their tight end corps. Charles Clay came in the draft in 2011. Michael Egnew came in the draft in 2012.

Neither has really contributed to any significant degree. Indeed, if the Dolphins handle this offseason as it should be handled, both should be very nervous about their job status in 2013.

If the Dolphins do what should be done -- namely address the tight end position with significant resources -- Clay and Egnew should come to camp worried. They should come to camp thinking that their scholarships have been revoked and they'll get cut unless they make plays and do it consistently in training camp and during the preseason.

Last season, neither Clay nor Egnew did anything worthy of making the team in camp. They just basically made the team because they were young and there was simply no one else around. In other words, they made the team on promise rather than production.

And Fasano?

He's not starting because he's great. He's starting because he's the best of a bad lot. He's the best Miami's got but he's typically a C-plus player.

And as I look around, teams with merely C-plus tight ends didn't get deep into the playoffs this year.

Comments

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We need Playmakers seems more like We Need the same Status Quo of average players if you believe that hartline is that much of a difference maker...just sayin!!!

There is little doubt in my mind that Matt Moore would've had us in the playoffs this past season. I guess the Dolphins thinking is that longer term Tannehill may have more upside then Moore so thats why they started him. But from everything we've seen it looks like they may be very wrong.

Mando, On The Wr's,,

I'm Wondering About Boldin!!

For The Right Price! The Guy Fits!!

Heck, Boldin Right Now!! Is Still Better Than Hartline!!

Plus, Boldin Is A Great Mentor!! Hartline Isn't A Team Guy! Bess Is A Good Mentor, Also!! (And Before You Clowns Say Something Dumb!! It Is Well Publicized Bess Always Helps The Young Wr's!! One Of The Many Reasons Philbin And Sherman Love Him! While Sherm and Phil, Didn't Like Hartline's Antics! in The Offseason Last Year!!)

Boldin And Bess!! With 2 Rookie Wr's!! That Fit The Prototype!! 6'3" 205+ 4.4-40!!

Screw A TE!!

Don't Resign Flatline!!

And yet the man had 3 TDS and 666 receptions and was targeted just as much as hartline was before injury this year.....But your right, since hartline didnt get injured and played 4 yrs with 6 TDS in his Career, he's worth more *lmao*

You're talking out of your a@@. Amendola has played 4 NFL season & has caught 7 TD's. Wow!!! He caught one more TD than Hartline & can't stay healthy!!! Awesome...Break the bank for him!!!

Shula73,

Matt Moore couldnt get us into the playoffs in 2011 with the exact same offensive cast, minus Columbo and Brandon Marshall. There were still inconsistencies on the oline and he would no longer have his favorite target Marshall.

No one in their right mind would say Matt Moore couldnt have won any games. But based on last season alone, its a HUGE STRETCH to suggest Matt Moore could have led us to playoffs when he couldnt do it last season even with Brandon Marshall.

We need Playmakers...I was talking about this year but yea lets break the bank on hartline so we can have even less Redzone production as a playmaker from him in the years to come..
Im starting to believe that playmakers is not what you want more of....Its more about consistantly living average players is what you like to rest your hopes on....

When are you guys gonna wake up & realize Ireland is the problem!

Ireland helped build a slow plodding offense when the rest of the NFL was going to smaller, quicker players.

Ireland was late in realizing Te`s were the hot commodity & the direction the top teams were utilizing the year or 2 before when the Ravens got Dixon & Pitta. When the Pats got Hernandez & Gronk.

Ireland does NOT have the vision of qualified compotent GM's who can forecast which way the NFL is heading & plan accordingly.

He's behind the times & not cut out to be an NFL GM. He should be a scout for a GM who knows how to build a franchise.

We need Playmakers seems more like We Need the same Status Quo of average players if you believe that hartline is that much of a difference maker...just sayin!!!

Seriously...Did you even watch the games this season??? I'm not saying Hartline is a Number 1 WR but to give up the one player that stepped up his game this year on offense & had a great chemistry with Tannehill is dumb. Do we need a big time playmaker like Mike Wallace??? Absolutely. But you can't just go out & pay one guy big money & expect the offense to be improved w/o having other WR's that can make plays & extend drives.

The Bears just did that with Marshall & Cutler had no one else to throw the football to. Same with the Lions & Calvin Johnson.

Matt Moore might have had better stats but the result wouldve been the same...he does not rise above the occasion when facing better teams....see 2011 if you need proof!!!

Guys We Are Almost a Month Away!! From Getting Real Answers!!

Those First 3 Days!! In March!!

Make Or Break!! Ireland!!

The War Of Words! Begins The First Day Of Free Agency!!

Bring Your Best Hate Ireland Material!!

---------------------------------------------

And Clown!! Stop Acting So Crazy!!

Armando's Obsessive Stalker!! Is Getting Out Of Hand!! The Clown Never Stops!!

dash/odinseye,

Anquan Boldin is going into his 11th season. So what type of contract do you sign him to? Vet minimum at best. Should the Ravens win Sunday, it's probably more likely he rides off into the sunset, capping a very good pro career.

Dont be dumb all of your life odindashi. LOL...

I think Moore "could" have led Miami to the post season. His experience & knack for big plays would have helped this team. I don't think that is unrealisatic or crazy to say.

He played quite well in his only game action against a pretty tough Defense.

Having said that, that doesn't mean I would have wanted Moore to play all season. In my opinion, the experience Tanny got under his belt is more important that the 2 or 3 wins & potential playoff spot Moore could have led us to.

Tanny is the future, like it or not & the experience he gained this year was immeasurable. It will only help him to get better for the long term.

Everyone knows Moore is not the future. So to have a Cinderalla 2008 like season would have been meaningless.

On bad basketball teams, someone has to score points, get rebounds. My theory with Hartline is the same principle applies. His lack of TD's, his lack of anything in the form of YAC, is all the reason not to give him $5-6 mil a year.

If it were me, Bess and Matthews would be the only holdovers. Sign a vet FA, draft 2 WR's. Add explosion, athleticism, and YAC ability to the offense.

odindashi's here, lets talk "HOTTIES"! LOL....

To me the lack of addressing the TE position while Ireland had been here is his biggest shortcoming to date. Forget the QB talk. Parcells made the decision to take Long over Ryan. That's on him. Then you chose to go with Henne and you have to give him time to show where he has it or not. Didn't work out and it's Tannehill's chance.

But to watch all these times around the NFl adding top notch talent at the position and to stick with guys like Fasano (very average), Mastrud and try and plug holes with 6th round pick Clay and third round pick Egnew is INEXCUSABLE. No more! Go get not one but TWO TE's who can catch when it's needed most. When you listen to Manning this year he says the guy he's most thankful for is Tamme and before that it was Dallas Clark. Who's Tannehill got? Fasano!! Big f8cking deal!! I can run faster than the guy and I'm 45 years old....

DD, I like the guy you're talking about from Stanford. Big target!! But he's RAW!! Are we really going to count on another PROJECT to fill the position. I say NO THANKS. I like Ertz because he has good hands, can catch in the redzone and is athletic. Is he going to be all Pro? I have no idea. But similarly to Rudolph in Minnesota, you need to invest higher picks in guys like this. I'm SICK of the projects that never pan out.

Btw, go and sign Cook from the Titans too. No rules against having TWO TEs that can catch the ball. Every other f8cking team in the NFL is doing it. Why can't we?

So what WNP???


Tannehill developed the same kind of consistancy with bess in a few games last year, and its hard not do considering what kind of talent we had on this team offensively with him to work with....

Hartline can walk and tannehill would have all of training camp to develope chemistry with a younger reciever in the draft and a real #1 threat in FA...Hartline is not irrapleacable and tannehill will only be in his second year so i dont understand how you OVERVALUE hartline as an asset to this team moving foward???!!!

We need Playmakers...I was talking about this year but yea lets break the bank on hartline so we can have even less Redzone production as a playmaker from him in the years to come..
Im starting to believe that playmakers is not what you want more of....Its more about consistantly living average players is what you like to rest your hopes on....

Superphin,

I think you're missing my point. We DEFINITELY need a big-time, Number 1 WR like Wallace who score TD's but we still need guys like Hartline & Bess who consistently find ways to get open & extend plays.

Would I rather we had starting WR's like Julio Jones & Roddy White instead??? Obviously but that's not happening as long as Ireland is here.

Btw, go and sign Cook from the Titans too. No rules against having TWO TEs that can catch the ball. Every other f8cking team in the NFL is doing it. Why can't we?

Craig,

B/c our GM is incompetent.


Posted by: bootang25 | January 29, 2013 at 01:31 PM

I agree, except if we signed Wallace there would be need to only draft 1 wr. If we forego signing any fa wr, then draft 2 wr's with the first 3 picks and still let Hartline walk.

The more I think about it, the more Im willing to allow Hartline to walk and see Mattews develop in a rotation behind our drafted wr's or a drafted and fa wr. ^tds in 4yrs with Hartline, I think that Ive seen enough.

Posted by: Shula 73 | January 29, 2013 at 01:14 PM

BPOTD!!!

And thats why they need to draft Matt Barkley, an Andrew Luck clone!!!

YG/Stalker Troll

Is The Reason The Sun Sentinel Had To Change Its Blog!!

So That Actually Makes YG!! A CyberBully / CyberTerrorist!!

Today, Just Has 1 Question.

YG, When Are You Going To Kill Yourself For The Greater Good!!

No Better Time Than NOW!!

Yesterday's Gone!! 4ever!!

Today Is Here!! B'tch!!

And Tomorrow Will Never Come For A Clown Like You!!

Craig M = VILLAGE IDIOT

Shula 73 says:

There is little doubt in my mind that Matt Moore would've had us in the playoffs this past season. I guess the Dolphins thinking is that longer term Tannehill may have more upside then Moore so thats why they started him. But from everything we've seen it looks like they may be very wrong.
======================================================
That's a strong possibility. When you look at the right side of the line where all teams decided to attack due to Colombo @ RT. Moreover Brandon Marshall wanted the ball and made numerous drops on plays that would have helped the Dolphins win more. The Dolphins had both the Patriots and the Giants down going into the final minute of play. Moore throws a very accurate deep ball and with speed receivers placed around him would have had a better record. Moore was the 12th rated passer in the NFL. I know long term the Dolphins felt better about Tannehill. However no one is certain about Tannehill, so why not resign Moore and give him a shot to win the job. He was learning an offense that Tannehill already knew.

WNP...


Signing wallace is fine, but Baylor WR Terrence Williams, Tennesee Patterson, Cal WR Keenen Allen, WV Tavon Austin can all replace Hartline as a #2 if miami decides to go that way....

Posted by: We Need Playmakers | January 29, 2013 at 01:34 PM

Hartline had a career high 3 tds recieving, Bess had 1 td recieving, with Marshall as the #1 wr. Youre nuts if you think we need to see more.

I would keep Bess over Hartline simply because he's cheaper and far more reliable catching balls in the middle of the field. Im telling you guy, Hartline has far more incompleteted pass catch attempts in the middle of the field than on the outside(fear).

This isnt even mentioning Hartline slips to the ground on nearly every comeback route thrown to the outside. Some resulting in picks and others in incompletions.

superPHIN,

Wasn't it you who wanted Titus Young to be signed by this team before? Still want to sing that song?

And now you're on about Amendola? Come on man!! How is Amendola any better than Hartline? The guy can't even stay healthy.

Who else you got?

I don't get all the hate for Hartline. Guy just goes out there every week and busts his a**. Doesn't take plays off like a certain number 19 who played here for two years.

The problem with Hartline is that he's nevr a number one and shouldn't have been put in that position. For a 4th round pick, Hartline doesn't deserve NEAR the criticim he gets here.

Yes Craig


I said Titus Young has been more productive in his career Redzone wise and Amendola Redzone wise compared to hartline.....However it would be cheaper to LET hartline walk and draft a younger reciever when it comes to putting more talent on the offense side of the ball.....But im sure Hartline probably in your eyes is better than every WR out there in the draft I bet???lol

Its insanity to sign Mike Wallace(a #2 wr) and resign Hartline. This would make Hartline again the #1 wr.

A true #1 wr can catch a ball anywhere on the field. Hartline grows more inconsistent the closer he gets to the middle of the field. Hartline can never be a true #1 wr. Mike wallace isnt a true #1 wr either.

Hartline and Wallace as our starting wr's, I see disastrous results happening. Wallace doubled and Hartline still cant produce td's singled. He hasnt been able to do it yet in his career.

Let's Play Expose YG!!

Bootang25! YG!

WNP's! YG!

Steve In Ottawa! YG!

LOL! YG!!

And That Is Only On This Page!!

YG, Why Do You Care If People Are Other People?

Could It Be You're A Paranoid Sociopath!! Who Thinks Everyone Is Like You!!

--------------------------------------------------------------

And Your Need To Keep Calling For Odin!! Is Disturbing!

Give It A Break Fool!! Odin Doesn't Want To Talk To You!

And Dashi Is Just About Done!!

You Are Going On My Ignorant Idiots List!! Funny Thing Is, You Are The Ignorant Idiot!!

"Tannehill developed the same kind of consistancy with bess in a few games last year, and its hard not do considering what kind of talent we had on this team offensively with him to work with....

Hartline can walk and tannehill would have all of training camp to develope chemistry with a younger reciever in the draft and a real #1 threat in FA...Hartline is not irrapleacable and tannehill will only be in his second year so i dont understand how you OVERVALUE hartline as an asset to this team moving foward???!!!"

Superphin,

Bear in mind there's no guarantee we're going to sign a big time WR in FA. We're not the only team with cap space. There's only three that I can think of--Wallace, Bowe, & Jennings. We could easily get outbid &/or they may not want to play for a losing team. Even if we get one of these guys let's say he blows out a knee in training camp??? Then what??? Addressing the lack of depth at the WR position is as much an issue as the need to address the lack of playmaking ability.

And then there's the draft which is a crap shoot for every team, however, the GOOD teams (not us) are just consistently better at evaluating talent than others. Personally I don't think Ireland & his scouts could find a top notch WR with 20 draft picks spread out over seven rounds.

We lose Hartline & we could be looking at Bess & Matthews as our starters next year.

superPHIN,

Actually we're not that far off in our thinking. I'd add a vet in FA but I like the guys you've mentioned in the draft. I'd bring Hartline back ONLY as long as the price and term don't get stupid. He'd be a number three on this team....IN MY EYES.

Ive told you before craig, I dont hate Hartline for what he was when he was drafted, However, he in my opinion doesnt help this offense in the area they have sorely SUCKED for a better word over the last few years and that is scoring points..

For anyone who says anyone could get 1,000 yards receiving because there was nobody else to throw to ... think this was also true during the Wannstedt years and pre Marshall here and still hartline is the only guy to do it.

Bess would've come close too if he didn't get hurt.

I want to say that I don't pretend to know anything about Michael Egnew. I want to simply say that we should ALL be very careful to declare him a failure...taht includes you too Armando.

Armando points out that Pitta is coming on strong for the Ravens during his 3rd year. I remember watching him the past two weeks and he played well in the playoffs. But I knew nothing about him either.

So, I looked up his stats:

Season # of games # REC # YDS # TDS
2010 11 1 5 0
2011 16 40 405 3
2012 16 61 669 7

So, basically he and Egnew had the same rookie year. Both did nothing. It appears they both came onto teams that have veteran TE's and they didn't get to play much. Yes, Pitta was active for 11 games but he had one catch...for 5 yards.

Again, I am not saying Egnew is a playmaker or will become Pro Bowl material. But I just don't think anyone can really say he is a failure.

Armando, if you are going to take time to recognize Pitta as "really starting to emerge" and as playing on the Ravens who know about great TE's then I think we should also recognize Pitta and Egnew started off their rookie seasons the same way.

I say keep Clay..move him to FB. Resign Fasano. Get Egnew on the field next year and actually pass to him. Let the others go and sign a solid TE in Free Agency (Keller) or pick one in the draft (Rounds 2-5).

I don't get this NEED to label guys NUMBER ONE receivers all the time. What does this mean? Do they get bonus points for being number one receivers or something?

Who's the number one in GB? Who was it the year before? How about the year before that? NY Giants? New Orleans?

What I think you want are a bunch of guys that can do different things. I think Wallace or Jennings would bring different things than we have here right now and I think a young guy in the draft would bring other things.

This NEED to state who's number one all the time. Don't get it.

KRIS........

YESTERDAY ,YOU WERE VERY RUDE TO ME PERSONLY .I DO BELIEVE ,YOU OWE ME AN APOLOGY FOR THE FILTHY LANGUAGE YOU USED ..............

I don't get all the hate for Hartline. Guy just goes out there every week and busts his a**. Doesn't take plays off like a certain number 19 who played here for two years.

Craig,

You know how I feel. If we had more guys like Hartline on our roster we'd win more games than we lost. He may not be spectacular but good teams are built w/ solid & mistake free players.

CraigM,

You always percieve when others disagree about a fins player, its "HATE". It isnt hate, we trust what our eyes see and the most important stat, "TOUCHDOWNS". You dont "WIN GAMES" when youre not scoring.

Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

Like someone here noted with a basketball analogy. A very good team plays a terrible team and someone on that terrible team may have a guy score 25pts. That doesnt mean that guy is a great player, it only means he was the best player on an awful team.

Hartline is the best wr, except for over the middle(Bess), on an awful recieving corp. It isnt Hartline Hate, it called not being blinded by the true facts.

ARMANDO...

YOU OWE ME AND THE BLOG AN APOLOGY FOR SOME OF THE FILTH YOU ALLOWS ON THIS BLOG ..............

YOU GOT TO SAY SOME THING TO THESE DONKEYS ......

CRAIG M....


PLEASE KEEP YOUR WRITING CLEAN ,NOT LIKE THE FILTHY BLOGGERS;;;
DASHI
ODIN
KRIS
PHONY 78

Craig,

The one thing I agree with Superphin on is that we need our WR's to score more TD's.

Its insanity to sign Mike Wallace(a #2 wr) and resign Hartline. This would make Hartline again the #1 wr.
=====================================================
Make some sense. Forget this number 1 or 2 receiver. Getting Wallace then drafting another speed receiver (sub 4.5)will allow the Dolphins to have speed they have not had. Teams need multiple receivers due to injury and to keep one speed guy from being taken out with a double team etc....speed at the WR position will open up the running game and screens that we did not see run much because of the defense most teams used against the Dolphins.

IT'S THE QB STUPID.

"For a 4th round pick, Hartline doesn't deserve NEAR the criticim he gets here."

Posted by: Craig M | January 29, 2013 at 01:47 PM

That's obvious but, WHO CARES!?

Speaking of obvious, you don't pay receivers $5-7 million per year who don't score TD's.

That's what this is about. Not respect, or what's fair or not fair. It's about performance.

Please try to differntiate the 2. Bloggers are discussing the VALUE of a player for what he produces on the field.

Not for the respect he should get or we should not be critical because you have a boner for him cause he gives great effort.

Bottom Line: Hartline is mediocre & he tries hard. That doesn't mean he should get paid.

All we heard from you was losing Marshall was no big deal cause he never got us to the playoffs. What makes Hartline any different? Or Bess? or anyone else on this team?

Based on that thinking, the entire roster could use an overhaul.


Posted by: Today Is Here B'tch | January 29, 2013 at 01:49 PM

Hmmm....... OdinsDashi, now Phony78?

Phony78 also Odinsdashi? Phony78 claims to leave and Odinsdahi shows up. Ineteresting, but who really gives a f u c k, no one really cares about you no matter your aliases dumbo. LOL....

..Craig..Toiolo is a 3 year player. He isn't raw, it is the injury issue(which is 2 years ago) Ertz ate up all the stats, no doubt. I'm sure he will go higher in the draft. I just think Toiolo is a guy that we could get later in the draft who has a higher ceiling, and can do more.

Promicheal..You said the tight ends mentioned did not have the speed NFL teams are looking for. I said speed is a myth at the position. You countered with a group of 3 to support your point. 1 Clark ran almost a 4.7 40 time. The other TG. Was fast 15 years ago..Freakishly. But he isn't close to that speed the last 5 years. I'll give you Hernandez, and I will even trhow in Davis, even S. Sharpe just so you have something. There maybe more. The point is. It isn't neccesary to be a burner at tight end. It isn't the end all be all. And I think you are wrong by saying these players don't have the speed teams are looking for today.

Think about this. I will be liberal and say the average 40 time for an NFL Linebacker is around 4.6. Of course there are faster, more that are slower. But the benchmark for them is around that number. Fair? So tight ends don't have to have 4-4 speed to beat these guys. in fact given the advantage of the offensive player, a guy that runs a 4.7, 4.8 is a pretty good matchup against most of the league. Now think about the teams that can line up their tight ends wide against cornerbacks. They aren't beating the corners with speed..Right? What is the advantage that NFL teams use in these 1-1 matchups??? If it was only about speed, would teams ever do this?

In Case You Didnt Know:

Odindashi also = Phony78

IT TRUE! LOL....

We Need Playmakers,

I feel EXACTLY the same way and I've said that on here before. If we had more guys like Hartline going out every week and busting their a88es every week we wouldn't be a sub 500 team. Doesn't mean he's the mostly physically gifted guy on the team but he does what he's asked to do and more. Personally, if he doesn't get greedy I'd like to see him back. There's certainly room for him on this team and I think, from what I've read, that Philbin likes him too.

AFTER READING THE FILTHY BLOGGERS FOR FEW DAYS ,I CONCLUDE THAT THEY R ;;;;;


DASHI,IS...........PLUMBER

KRIS IS............. FRY COOK @ 99


PHONY 78 IS............. ROFFER'S HELPER....

ODIN........IS,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, DONKEY ......

DD,

Toiolio's only rap is terrible blocker. Go to Walter Camp and read it yourself.

Walter Camp suggested he returns to school one more season to work on this. We already have a TE not playing because his blocking needed lots of work. Remember that guy Egnew?

In the nfl it's critical thatg a TE can block. If he cant block he cant play. No matter how good his other skills are. Lets keep an eye on how high or low Toilio goes if he's entered this draft.

Because of what Walter Camp says, I dont see him going in the first two rds. Someone may gamble 3rd rd, this may not be out of the question. 1st-2nd rd definitely is.

Signing wallace is fine, but Baylor WR Terrence Williams, Tennesee Patterson, Cal WR Keenen Allen, WV Tavon Austin can all replace Hartline as a #2 if miami decides to go that way....

Superphin,

None of those WR's have proven that they can play at the NFL level & I don't see any 'can't miss' prospects in this draft @ WR like Calvin Johnson or AJ Green. Hartline is a proven commodity.

Do you think any one of those guys can run routes like Hartline or find the holes in an NFL defense like Hartline or know how to position their body like Hartline??? Playing WR is a craft at the NFL level & maybe some of those kids will develop into good or even great WR's but the chances of them doing it right away is very slim. Blackmon was considered an ELITE prospect last year & he struggled for over half a season.

THE BEST BLOGGER BY FAR............IS

DD........

NEVER BEEN IN A FIGHT WITH ANY ONE ...IF EVERY ONE FOLLOWS HIS LEAD ,WE WOULD BE IN GRAT SHAPE......

HE'S VERY HUMBLE AND AGREE AND DISAGREE WITH RESPECT AND NEVER ARROGANT ,NEVER...........

LOL,

Let me make it simple for you, so that we don't waste a lot of time on each other....GO F*CK YOURSELF!!

I'm not interested in what you have to say, and I'm not the least bit interested in having you cut up my responses on here. That OK with you. Hope we're done for the day.

Now GO F*CK YOURSELF!!

Yg....Walter Camp said he is a horrible blocker????? That is Toiolos strength. I'll read it. Ertz is the shwagie blocker. Toiolo is a rock. The games I watched. Toiolo did all the blocking Ertz did all the catching the ball until it came time to get it down field. Again I'll read it.

Darryl Dunphy says
Promicheal..You said the tight ends mentioned did not have the speed NFL teams are looking for. I said speed is a myth at the position. You countered with a group of 3 to support your point. 1 Clark ran almost a 4.7 40 time. The other TG. Was fast 15 years ago..Freakishly. But he isn't close to that speed the last 5 years. I'll give you Hernandez, and I will even trhow in Davis, even S. Sharpe just so you have something. There maybe more. The point is. It isn't neccesary to be a burner at tight end. It isn't the end all be all. And I think you are wrong by saying these players don't have the speed teams are looking for today.
=====================================================
Receiver speed for separation is not best tested using the "40". I mentioned quickness which means acceleration coming out of one's break as a WR or TE, that should be the main bench mark. Quickness in tennis is applicable and being able to steal a base in baseball. It's necessary to be able to accelerate quickly to perform skills in the aforementioned two sports.

When you start your resposnses to me with 'WHO CARES', you get back a 'GO F*CK YOURSELF'....

I hope that's plain enough English for you and you NEVER address me again. Somehow I fear that won't happen.

I AM HAPPY CRAIG M DIDN'T GET MAD @ ME ....


LOL...I THINK CRAIG HAS A POINT....

As if your lil childish rant is going to stop me from cutting up your daily BS? NO CHANCE!

LOL

You overestimate yourself Mr. Ego Maniac if you think that's what it'll take to get me off your back!

When you say dumb things, I will call you on it! Also, YG called you out for the EXACT same thing I did. You don't understand what people are trying to say and go off on your lil stupid tirades.

If you're going to say dumb things because you can't understand 2nd grade level english, be prepared for the onslaught!

Man up for pete sakes, you're a disgrace!

DD,

From Walter Camp: 7th rated TE

Levine Toilolo*, TE, Stanford
Height: 6-8. Weight: 265.
Projected 40 Time: 4.62.
Projected Round (2013): 2-4.
1/12/13:

Toilolo backed up Ertz in 2012, but still caught 24 passes for 393 yards and four touchdowns. Toilolo needs to improve his blocking and route-running. He probably would have been better off returning for his senior season to improve before going pro, but he declared for the 2013 NFL Draft.

Anywhere from 2nd to 4th rd. I take 2nd rd to mean an "extremely desperate team". Ideally 3rd to 4th rd. He still needs to develop for the "pro" game.

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