« Will stadium vote cause the Dolphins to have more urgency this offseason to impress fans, voters? | Main | Sean Smith worth $10.7 million guaranteed for one year? »

Fans and media sometimes react faster than FOs

The most asked questions I'm getting on twitter lately are 1. When will the Dolphins new logo be announced and 2. Will the Dolphins be interested in trading for Percy Harvin?

Well, we know the answer to one of those questions.

The Dolphins have said they will unveil their new logo in April.

As to the second? I don't know. And the Dolphins probably don't know. And that is the point of this post.

The truth is that my years of covering the Dolphins and NFL have taught me that fans and media often move a whole lot faster on things than many NFL teams. And some NFL teams move even slower than others to the pace of, well, a snail.

So let's just say the Dolphins don't move super fast.

Only recently I shared with you the fact that while one side of the organization had already approved letting the stadium modernization plan go to a county referendum, there had been no discussion internally with the football side about what it might do to help matters by being more aggressive in free agency or trades. I don't know if that conversation has since happened. I don't know if it will happen. But I know that an organization that reacts quickly to things would have had the talk as part of the decision to take the issue to voters.

Let me share something else.

Last year, as Mike Wallace was holding out in Pittsburgh and the discussion here, on fan boards, on talk radio and on twitter was about whether the Steelers would possibly trade Wallace, I asked one Dolphins personnel official about the possibility.

"I don't know that he's even available," he told me.

It wasn't ignorance. It was just that this person expects to find out something from the source before not only acting but even thinking about the topic. Fans have the luxury of speculating, of dreaming out loud even.

Many personnel guys don't afford themselves that luxury. They act on facts. Thus they wait for those facts to become reality before considering them.

Another example?

Last year the Dolphins were among the first teams to work out Braylon Edwards. The team liked him. The team considered signing him. But as that consideration was happening, the Seattle Seahawks brought the guy in and signed him.

Now, the thoughtful approach ultimately worked for the Dolphins. Edwards was not a big factor for anyone in 2012. But the point I'm making is the Dolphins didn't really move fast on the issue.

They are systematic, it seems to me.

I was told (true or not) that I actually wrote about the Vontae Davis trade possibility to Indianapolis before the Dolphins started giving it strong consideration and the thing heated up. That's one reason, I was told, the possibility of such a deal was initially denied by the team. Apparently the media and fans were speculating on the idea before it became a serious negotiation.

It's not just the Dolphins and it's not just this organizational set of people. Dave Wannstedt's organization was slow. Don Shula's was extremely fast and aggressive.

So there are different reaction times for different front offices.

And that brings me to Harvin. I don't know this for a fact, but I would not be surprised if he hasn't been discussed yet by the Dolphins based on their recent history. If and when he actually is put on the trade market, I suppose the club will consider its options.

But with the combine, their own player signings and unrestricted free agency looming, I'm not betting that Miami personnel people are sitting around mulling Percy Harvin trade scenarios these days. That's not a bad thing. Indeed, if that's what the front office is doing, then something is amiss.

No, unless I miss my guess, there will be a systematic, calculated, slow approach to the idea of a Percy Harvin trade. And that scrutiny will come only if the player in truth is made available, which would be weeks or even months after the first mention of the possibility by fans and media.

So slow down.

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Armando....

I am neither surprised or dissapointed with what you just revealed....

Its is pretty much how I imagined buisness being conducted under Ireland.....

Not going after Percy Harvin for (what looks to be) not-so-high compensation would be a monumental mistake. You simply cannot find a guaranteed playmaking talent like he is - top-tier in the league. 2nd & 4th and a contract - do it. Less? Even better.

Kris (from the last blog),

So what you are saying is you are happy that the Marshall trade happened?

Not me, I'd rather we had kept the two second round picks and used them on some of the top talent that was available in the second round the last couple of years. That's just me. the whole experiment was a complete was of time as far as I'm concerned.

And whether it's Marshall's fault or not, he's NEVER been to the playoffs. That remains on his record.

The Moose (there's a new name.....anyone?),

Totally disagree. It's not about Harvin as a talent. it's about why would we give up picks for a guy when there are FAs avaiable we can sign who won't cost us picks. Harvin's a FA next year, with talk that he's going to holdout without a re-negotiated contract this year. Why the Hell would we want to take a headache like that on and then have to pay him $8-10 mil a year? Far better to go the FA route.

Shula moved fast alright. He signed Keith JAckson the moment free agency was invented. The second Mark Clayton declined, he got rid of him and traded for Irving Fryar.

Fast!!!

Craig M....

I'm saying that the BIGGEST problem with the Marshall trade was this....Ireland or Parcells thought that the Marshall trade was IT....much like Dansby....

Like it or not...it would seem that Parcells/Ireland was a fan of ONE MAN can change the fortune of your team...and why shoudn't Parcells think like that....He had Lawrence Taylor for 2 SB....changing the way the game is played....

and then he had Phill Sims (Chad Henne)....making enough plays to win 17 to 14 scre games.....

Marshall NEEDED help.....Ireland didn't provide it....that's why it didn't work out...once again...bit in the @ss by the Parcells donosaur philosophy....

Like you said, with the combine, own player signings, and free agency looming, its probably not a bad thing that their not mulling on a player that may not even become available.
Here's hoping that their instead using the time wisely looking at ways to get AVAILABLE playmakers here!!!

Craig M....

how would you feel about Harvin if they just did his contract this year BEFORE trading for him...

does that make it any more palatable.....

Early bird gets the worm . Get to work Ireland, your job depends on it.

I think our cheap, methodical decision makers are going to wind up not sighning anyone, and we'll have a bunch of cast offs on our team next year. Mr. Ross better start kicking some hiney.

No trading of 1st or 2nd picks unless it's for a QB!!

Kris,

Mark had a list of good offensive players taken in the second round the last couple of years. I'd rather have had any two of those guys, making not much money and keeping their mouths shut than a $50 million distraction. I get why the team did it and I wanted it too. I'm just saying, just as others have criticized the trading up of Thomas for three picks and the second rounder for Culpepper, this is a move I'd rather have back.

As for Harvin, I just don't see why we're trading picks for a WR who's going to command $8-10 mil a year. He's a good player but I think we can get that guy in FA. If we can't then maybe I warm up to this idea but right now I'd prefer to go the FA and draft route.

Craig M....

another ONE MAN FORTUNE changer....Chad Pennington....

So whats the word on the trade value of Harvin? If that were to happen does that make the likelyhood of them signing Jennings over Wallace? I ask bc of the age issue with Jennings/his health issues, paired with how comfortable they felt with having a younger talent in Harvin. Would they be more comfortable to persue Jennings? Or am I just talking out of me arss?

Harvin is great as long as he doesn't get a headache and decides he can't play for a month.

Armando,

I see your assertation this fo moves slowly as both true and false. Here why:

Look at the Groves, Smiley, Ernest Wilford, Wilson, et al decision. They all happened very fast. When it comes to a player they have set themselves to go after, it's like Star Trek warp 7, to hell with the Klingons. Injury concerns and all.

On the otherhand, when it comes to players that may have red stripes, no I dont mean the beer, in areas that dont neccessarily meet their comfort zone. Then it seems to be a slow and deliberate proccess, no matter the talent. It shocked everyone they actually signed B Marshall.

Now, if this fo could find a way to temper itself between the two, then they may really be onto something. If youre blowing caution to the wind on players injury history(Smiley/Grove) or your perceived upside you see in a player(Gibril Wilson). Then be a little more optomistic about players with borderline character issues.

Heck, your Smiley/Groves and Wilson/Wilfords are bombing out at the same rate as the borderline character issue guys. If youre going to be systematic in your process. Do it to eliminate any and all players that may have quirks(injury character) that may impede this team's ability to be the best ut can be.

I think it's more interesting to note that Shula moved fast and was successful, Wannstedt moved slow and was abysmal. The current regime seems slow as well and the results are mixed at best. Perhaps that should tell you that the Dolphins, as an organization, need to get faster.

Craig @12:19, yep hypothetically speaking, if Miami doesn't make that trade, they could've had Gronkowski and Torrey Smith and then neither TE or WR are the black hole they are now. Hold those top picks.

There's no underestimating how much damage was done in that trade. It was an sbsolute franchise killer.

Actually we ended up with B-Marsh because Ireland considered Dex Bryant the greater character gamble.

Lets see, Dez's momma's a ho. B-Marsh contributed to getting his friend killed, I think it was. ??????????

By the way, harvin is a fine player but he's not the stretch the field WR. he's more of a gadget player that rushes a bunch of times and catches short passes and turns out the YAC. Pretty much a younger Reggie Bush if Bush was used properly. Better to give Bush $6M, keep your draft pick and move on. he can do the exact same thing ...

If all this is true, it means everything they've said about being acted and having enough money to do something in FA is nonsense, as it isn't a priority.

I'm telling you, nothing is going to change until ownership changes. We are years out.

Speaking of Gronkowski, he has to be the most talented idiot on earth. You guys see the lastest espn video of Gronk puttting a wwf move on his buddy on the dance floor?

Bellichik ages 5yrs everytime he sees a newly leaked video of Gronk doing something even more stupid than the time before.

Gronk's a great talent but the guys is one of the greatest young idiots in the entire nfl. Im sure Bellichick worries everytime he sees this idiot leaves the team's practice facilities.

oops make that...

"it means everything they've said about being ACTIVE"

Why don't they have an EDIT button up here?

Anyone concerned about Harvin's health issues?

YG,

There were other options other than Bryant. For example, the guy I REALLY wanted was D. Thomas who ended up going to Denver at the end of the first and would have been the perfect guy for this team. That was an option that was taken away with the Marshall trade. So it wasn't an either/or type scenario. We 'went for it', as guys want Ireland to do this year and it ended up being the wrong move.

Percy Harvin(2008) was the Vikings 22nd pick of the 1st rd. We dumped Vonte Davis for a 2nd rd. He was our 22nd pick of the 1st rd(2010).

If a team wants to dump a former 1st rd pick for a 3rd, 4th, or even worse, 5th rd pick.

BUYER BEWARE!

Mando,

This is one of the reason I can't stand Ireland. He's had four straight losing seasons so you'd think he'd operate with a sense of urgency but no, he acts like he's the smartest guy in the room. A perfect example was Phillip Wheeler. We had a chance to get him, Wheeler wanted to play here, Ireland low-balled him, & then the Raiders came in & wound up getting a guy who had a heck of a season. And we wound up with Jamaal Westerman...It's just another example of the way Ireland negotiates & winds up getting the sh#ttier players in FA that no one else wants like Legadu Naanee & Artis Hicks.

New Dolphins blog needs volunteers
rocipo@gmx.com
Subject: Blog

Mark @ 12:35....

That HAS to be the worst revionist history that I have seen on this blog in a long time....

NOTHING in Irelands draft history even remotley suggest he would have targeted the guys you speak of....

Now if you had said we could have packaged picks to get a concussion prone RB....or draft a gimmick QB who would e out of the league in less than 2 years....then I might be on board...

But Gronk and Smith.....sorry....not in our cards.....

YG,

They're dumping him because he wants a new contract. He's a FA NEXT year and wants to re-negotiate NOW! The talk is if he doesn't get his new contract before the season he will sit out the first ten games of the year, as VJax did in SD. The Vikings know this and obviously don't want to pay him what he's asking. What I don't get, is why everyone ALWAYS decides that WE'RE the team to pay these guys. Why do we have to be the 'white knights' all the time. This time drafted him and don't feel he's worth it, so why is it right for us? I never get that.

CraigM,

I realize this. The fo didnt wamt to draft a wr 1st rd. We traded for Marshall, then traded down from #12 with the Chargers and took Odrick 28th in 2010. 28th makes Odrick little more than a glorified 2nd rd pick.

We didnt have a 2nd rd pick because of the B-Marsh trade. With the 2nd rd pick(#40) from the Chargers we took the greatest and most popular defensive player in the draft, Koa Misi. LOL....

"I think it's more interesting to note that Shula moved fast and was successful, Wannstedt moved slow and was abysmal. The current regime seems slow as well and the results are mixed at best. Perhaps that should tell you that the Dolphins, as an organization, need to get faster."

Mike,

Mixed??? The results have been bad overall not mixed. Occasionally we've hit on some players but Ireland has missed more than 75% of the time in the draft. Ireland says he's hit half the time...We should only be so lucky.;

Moving slowly is a sign that they're not sure what they're doing & the results don't lie.

Mando,
SI just reported that the Dolphins intend to run the zone read option offense that the Niners (and the Redskins) use with Tannehill. Maybe we need to re-think some of these FA players everyone is tossing around.

Just a thought...

CraigM,

Again, Harvin is a former 1st rd pick, why dont they want to give him his money? Something in the milk isnt clean here.

BUYER BEWARE.

"They're dumping him because he wants a new contract. He's a FA NEXT year and wants to re-negotiate NOW! The talk is if he doesn't get his new contract before the season he will sit out the first ten games of the year, as VJax did in SD. The Vikings know this and obviously don't want to pay him what he's asking. What I don't get, is why everyone ALWAYS decides that WE'RE the team to pay these guys. Why do we have to be the 'white knights' all the time. This time drafted him and don't feel he's worth it, so why is it right for us? I never get that."

Craig,

B/c the media & the fans are so desperate to have playmakers. Our two best WR's under contract are Bess & Matthews. That's why!!!

Harvin is probably going to take less money to play for the Pats or Niners .. That's what I'm guessing because that's how the Cowboys, Niners,Bills and other teams stay in SB contentions ! As a player why would you play for a team knowing that there will be no playoffs in sight .

YG,

I think that's it EXACTLY. I've said a number of times on here I don't believe you win in the NFl by paying WRs HUGE money. The Packers are letting Jennings go, the Steelers are letting Wallace go and sounds like the Vikings don't want Harvin long term, at big money. Now these teams have OTHER options at WR. We don't. So I GET why we need to do this. But isn't it interesting that The Pats are letting Welker go and possibly Lyoyd? Why? Because they can find cheaper alternatives in the draft and FA. That's the cross we'll have to bear if this doesn't work out.

Kris, I remember Torrey Smith being in our cross hairs that year and actually Omar Kelly spoke a tonne about him with Dolphins brass. However, OK fine what I did was take the best TE and the best WR drafted in those two rounds (which is why I spoke hypothetically or theorhetically). However, there were others that would've helped us. kyle Rudolph, Golden Tate for example. Not like any of these four were hidden gems. Everyone knew who these guys were going into the draft. They were right there and if we were looking receiver, we could've got one of these four yu'd think or if not then we don't have the right GM because even I knew these guys had talent. Nothing revisionist about that.

We've got work to do in the secondary, it's likely that Sean Smith walks. Then your starting corners will be Marshall, Patterson and Carroll. Does that scare anyone besides me?

Tracy474.....

I think Tanne is compeable to Kap in size....maybe a bit slower in speed....but still comparable....

I think its a good idea to have the threat of th Pistol in our offense...I am really surprised and dissapointed that we didn't get more of this in our offense last year....

Give the D something else to plan for....

Tracy, they were laready running it in the last month of last year.

This will be Harvin's 2nd pro contract. Imsure his asking proce with the Vikes is at least $8-$9 million.

So I guess we bail the Vukes out pay Harving and give up draft pick(s)?

We can sign one of the top 3 fa wr's for about the same amount and keep our draft pick(s). You guys are geniuses. LOL...

Smith's (sean) stone hands scare me....

Craig @12:19, yep hypothetically speaking, if Miami doesn't make that trade, they could've had Gronkowski and Torrey Smith and then neither TE or WR are the black hole they are now. Hold those top picks.

There's no underestimating how much damage was done in that trade. It was an sbsolute franchise killer.

Mark,

Give me a break...That was a franchise killer??? You can go back to EVERY draft in the last 5 years & do the same thing. The picks don't matter if you can't identify guys that can produce in the NFL. Gronk &/or Smith might not have been on Ireland's board to begin with.

You seem to forget that we drafted Vontae Davis while Clay Matthews was still on the board or how about last year when we took Egnew with T.Y. Hilton still not drafted. Every year it's the same thing. The teams that know how to draft find players & the teams that don't continue to struggle.

Harvin isn't getting the money from Minny I think for a few reasons

one - he still has a contract and it sets bad precedent to let players hold you over a barrel

two - he's a gadget player - he isn't a traditional WR. he caught 87 balls a few years back but didn't even crack 1,000 yards - odd for a guy with his talent, i mean he isn't danny amendola. i don't know any other gadget players making that kind of coin other than devin hester and that's been a failure since he got paid.

I think that's it EXACTLY. I've said a number of times on here I don't believe you win in the NFl by paying WRs HUGE money. The Packers are letting Jennings go, the Steelers are letting Wallace go and sounds like the Vikings don't want Harvin long term, at big money. Now these teams have OTHER options at WR. We don't. So I GET why we need to do this. But isn't it interesting that The Pats are letting Welker go and possibly Lyoyd? Why? Because they can find cheaper alternatives in the draft and FA. That's the cross we'll have to bear if this doesn't work out.

Craig,

If we could find our own WR's the draft we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with. And btw--not re-signing the only decent WR that was drafted in the last 5 years is just f#cking stupid.

How about Marshall's hunch back, does that scare you?

Fans and the media have the luxury of being arm chair quarterbacks and can afford to make knee jerk reactions. They have nothing at stake except being wrong and being picked on a blog. However you or any fan do not know what its like to actually have a whole team at your hands and try to make the right decisions. If you or fans ran the team and succumbed to every knee jerk reaction this team as bad as they are would be he a heck of a lot worse and in complete disarray.

WNP, give you a break?? We tied up $30M and two top picks and got bubkus in return. Team didn't improve one iota. This is a Jamarcus Russel type move. If you can't see that - then I don't know what more to say.

For some reason everyone loves this guy - I can't figure it out. We gave him the keys to the castle and he crapped on the living room couch.

Kris,

The Ravens drew the blueprint to defensing the pistol. Hit the qb whether he has the ball or not. Even the teams running this may want to revisit this idea with extreme caution.

QB's running the pistol will begin getting huge hits in 2013, even when handing off the ball. By nfl rule, these qb's fall under the category of rb when running the pistol. 2013 will be open season to begin teeing off on these pistol option QB/RB's.

Once one of these qb's get knocked out for the year running this offense, it will mark the end of the "pistol option."

Harvin isn't getting the money from Minny I think for a few reasons

one - he still has a contract and it sets bad precedent to let players hold you over a barrel

two - he's a gadget player - he isn't a traditional WR. he caught 87 balls a few years back but didn't even crack 1,000 yards - odd for a guy with his talent, i mean he isn't danny amendola. i don't know any other gadget players making that kind of coin other than devin hester and that's been a failure since he got paid.

Mark,

He's a great talent when he's healthy but that's been an issue. Secondly he has an attitude problem. He had issues with both Childress & Leslie Frazier. Not a Philbin guy.

Kris to your point about the pistol offense, Kapernick and Tannehill have very little in common. Kap is much faster, feels the pocket better and is a better passer. The dolphins trying to run the same offense would not work. While Tannehill had a few good runs, he doesnt scare anyone. This guy is not fast. And before everyone jumps on the pistol offense lets see how it pans out next year as all the defenses catch up to that style.

WNP, give you a break?? We tied up $30M and two top picks and got bubkus in return. Team didn't improve one iota. This is a Jamarcus Russel type move. If you can't see that - then I don't know what more to say.

For some reason everyone loves this guy - I can't figure it out. We gave him the keys to the castle and he crapped on the living room couch.

Mark,

I can't stand him either & I'm glad he's gone but it was more than just that ONE move. How about trading up for Thomas??? The list never ends....

Mark,

I don't get the Marshall argument either. I get guys like Kris love what this guy COULD have been here. He wasn't. If people think that trading two second picks and giving up $50 million is the way to build a team, then I hope to God we're the team that starts receiving the picks back in return.

Guys want to sqwak all add about giving up three f8cking minor picks to draft thomas but this trade was OK? This trade was MILLION times worse. Correct that, it was FIFTY million times worse.

WNPs @1:03pm,

Sorry that's not how you build a team. Let's just keep giving up draft picks for other people's problems and then reward them for what they've done.

It was wrong with Marshall and Culpepper and Feeley and Gordon and others. But let's just keep doing it. Cause when we have next to knows draft picks we'd better damn well make certain on every single one. At that point there's no room for error.

You guys need to put a shish on the Torrey Smith Gronkowski garbage.

We traded for Marshall that year. Torrey Smith didnt have a great season at Maryland, he only had like 4o-something catches, just had great speed.

Not even to mention the Ravens had already selected him 26rh, we traded down and took Odrick at 28th. You guys can count right?

Couldnt have taken Gronk, remember, we had the big need at olb backe then and used the 2nd rd pick from the Chargers to take Misi?

You guys are totally escaping reality to qualify your shoulda coulda's. Nobody saw Gronk having the impact he's having. Not even New England. If anyone saw Gronk coming he would have been at least a top 10 pick that year for sure.

YG...

agree....the Raven's defened the Pistol to perfection...as did the Rams against RG3 and the Redskins...even to the point were yoing Rookie RG3 thought he had bit hit to much...and whined after the game to the press....

However...in order to defeat the Pistol...you have to have an EXTREMELY aggressive and dare I say RUTHLESS defense....I don't believe 32 teams can feild those types of personnel...or run that type of scheme for 60 min....

And I keep hearing this argument that 'we should have picked Clay Matthews'. Why did 25 other GMs get this one wrong too? We had no f8cking players to play CB and we're going to KEEP ignoring the position. In theory, the idea of picking Davis and Smith was ABSOLUTELY right. Now if we want to put blame that these guys didn't become better players, how about pointing the finger at Parcells, after all he was the guy who brought Sparano in to be the HC. How come these two guys didn't get better coaching from the coaches that Sparano hired? I mean at what point do people STOP blaming Ireland for everything that's gone wrong with this franchise since we last won a Super Bowl?

WNP, I got to agree with Craig here. I will concede that it wasn't the only mistake that has lead the team to this point but if I were to rank mistakes made by this franchise under this regime, it would rank #1 - followed by the Long over Ryan fiasco.

The D Thomas trade like Craig side is minor - it involved burning up a 3,5,6 th pick or whatever they were - big deal. you recover from that.

With marshall not only did we burn money, we burned high picks, and we burned the opportunity to draft other young wrs that would maybe be part of this team now. It hit on so many levels - basically tied our hands for two years.

YG @1:25pm,

Sorry man, I've gotta call BS on this post. bobby12 and I (and I think Mark and others) wanted Gronk MORE than anyone in that draft. Others here might remind you of that. I couldn't have cared less about the injury, he was a guy I wanted in a tradeback (first round). He was EXACTLY what I felt this team needed. Would he be doing here what he's doing in NE. Of course not but he would have upgraded the offence, BIG TIME.

1 2 3 4 5 6 »

The comments to this entry are closed.