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Former Eagles owner versus the Dolphins: Bitter fight is on

Jobsfirst2
Jobsfirst1
Braman CRA

You see the three images above? They represent the evidence the Dolphins say they have that Norman Braman is a "hypocrite," as Mike Dee said Wednesday.

The first two images are evidence that Braman Motors, which Braman obviously owns, received $58,000 in state tax credits for job creation. The third image shows Braman Motors applied for, and was awarded, $150,358.60 in Community Redevelopment Agency funds from the city of Miami.

What's the point?

It's all about the fight to get public dollars for the Sun Life Stadium upgrades.

Braman, the former Philadelphia Eagles owner, and Dolphins owner Stephen Ross are fighting tooth and nail over this issue. And it is getting personal.

Braman has called Dolphins CEO Mike Dee "an a--hole." Ross has said Braman is "full of sh--."

Anyway, Braman explained the purpose of these funds to me in my column. It is a valid explanation and the funds went to a good cause. And the Dolphins say they accept the explanation. But they believe that if Braman is able accept public funds for his private business, he cannot say they shouldn't do the same even though he's getting hundreds of thousands of dollars and they would get hundreds of millions for the stadium.

"We have no problem with the fact that he applied for and received government aid to create jobs – that is the whole point of those programs and we applaud him for putting people to work," Dee told me in an e-mail. "We take exception, however, when he publicly chastises us for doing the same thing. That is the hypocrisy that he is at a loss to explain."

Well, as I write here this is about to get uglier.

Remember the term "smear campaign." You'll be hearing it in the very near future.

 

Comments

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Phins 78, they have no argument. They will spout nonsense about teachers and police officers when the FACT is the tourist tax is not allowed to be used for such things. They just make a bunch of noise, just ignore them. It's the same insignificant moron who means nothing to the human race.

let me explain how it works to all those saying no to the interest free loan. It's a win-win for SoFla on so many levels.

1) Creates jobs which increases corporate tax and payroll tax revenues (no state taxes in Florida or there would be a third revenue stream for the govt)

2) Does not come out of any current tax pie so no current service or budget allotment would be affected by this transaction.

3) The monies would be repaid so the govt would be left with increased revenues from the hotel tax from visitors

4) After the monies have been alloted to the Dolphins, the state does not need to and won't eliminate this tax so it will be left with a legacy revenue stream at no cost to local citizens that can be spent on various social programs or most likely as usual - used to increase civil servant salaries.

There is no downside here other than ignorant short sighted public perception.

Wow, you're right Kris. I actually thought I was helping to maybe change some minds. I appreciate the heads up.

I tried to use miami herald.com as the url to see if it would redirect me there when I clicked the blue. It didn't even allow me to use the site for url but yahoo and most other sites do. So I believe you are correct.

I just wasted a monumental amount of time trying to change the minds of people who never cared to begin with. I'm out until something real happens. Thank you

If he's got union picketers at his place of business and at his home, he's got way bigger problems than worrying about the Dolphins upgrading their stadium. And, if he spends money to prevent it, he's the bigger smuck!

Sell the god-am land. Get that Stadium closer to Miami.

* These 'Renovations' will not be considered modern in 12 to 15 years. *

So by then.... some a new Owner will threaten to move the team
if 'Poor' people don't cough up more money.


Oh and by the way....
No matter what they do...(due to soccer.)
the viewing DISTANCE, from the AVERAGE SEAT, is one of the WORST in the NFL !!!!!!!!!!!
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Sounds like martin is a healthier mcdaniels. Gotta have depth and signing him before the draft ensures miami doesnt have to reach for depth later in the draft.

Thanks Bobby. Mark great post, I'm starting to believe Kris though. Those people don't really care or they would debate. It does seem like they know it will fire us up so a well placed nay could generate an entire page of posts and more hits. Obviously you are dead on in what you're saying, unfortunately it seems none of those people truly care. Talk to you guys when something interesting football wise comes along.

Cooz make sure you remember to punch out before you leave today. Payroll says you forgot yesterday. Buh bye

Vaughn Martin is not interesting??? Ok, maybe only to me ...

Maybe if it was Ricky "Wild Thing" Vaughn from Major League...

Phins78,

Sfla Fans Are Acting Like Sacramento Fans!!

Ask Sacramento How Saying No To A New Stadium Feels?

Now The Kings Are Moving To Seattle!!

Notice How After The Sonics Left, Seattle Started Saying Yes To The Stadium Referendums. The Mariners And Seahawks Both Got New Stadiums!! And I Bet They Build The New Basketball Team An Arena With Public Funding!!

Ask LA? Who Is Publicly Funding A Stadium Without A Team!!

Phins78, You Hit It Right On The Head. Some People Hate Just Because They Are Jealous Ross Has Money!! Forget The Importance Of The Major Events That Can Be Hosted in The Stadium. The Amount Of Money It Can Bring In For The Community!!

The Last Time The Superbowl was In Miami the City Generated $400+Mil from The 2 Weeks Of Superbowl Stuff!! (Enough To Pay For The Upgrades)

They Don't See The Irony!!

Sfla Allows The Hotel Tax For Stadium Upgrades!! The New Look Stadium Gets A Superbowl!! Hotels Get Full Because Of The Superbowl!! Sfla Residents Spend ZERO Out Of Pocket!!

Please Explain How This Is Bad For Sfla.

But I Bet If They Say They Are Moving The Stadium To Hialeah!! Even Though Nobody Is Going To Go!! "The Sfla Media" and The Whining Coalition Will Be All For It!!

fix the stadium. ive been to over 15 different stadiums and its a dump compared to most. would never have a chance in hell at a sb if not for the weather

Phins 78, there we go. Moron blogger doesn't even know a part of the renovation is moving the seats closer to the field.

Oscar@1:01.

Thanks For Proving My Point. (Acting Like The Stereotype)

When You Guys Start Filling Out Marlins Stadium Which Is Basically In You Guys Backyard.

Then You Can Start Contemplating Moving Dolphin Stadium.

First Off Where The Stadium Is At. Is The Best Place In Miami To Have A Stadium!! Every Major Highway Is Close.

And The Miami Dolphins Are Sfla's Team!! I Know Of More Dolphin Fans In WPB than in Kendall.

They Play More Football In The Northern Part Of Dade And Broward!! Than They Do From Flagler On Down!!

Reason Fans Were Happy When The U Left The Orange Bowl!! Closer To Home For Most Sfla Fans!! And Family Of The Players!!

It is a dump ... almost as bad as the Ralph in Buffalo.

metLife in NJ is awful nice tho

Mark,

Can The Marlins Sign Rick Vaughn?

Or Most Of The Dominican Team From The WBC.

I Love M.Redmond As A Coach!! But Boy Did They Stack His Deck. If The Marlins Win 80 Games Redmond Should Be Up For Manager Of The Year.

The Blue jays Look Like The Favorites This Year, To Win The AL East.

BRANDON GIBSON, LORD OF THE CANADIANS

Braman is a hero cause he employs people. What does Ross do? Hire undocumented workers & pays them under the table?

DC & his anti republican rant is pathetic & devoid of any logic. Like Most dumbocrats.

Revamping the stadium will put people to work, potentially bring another superbowl which would be a boom for the economy & make the game experience better for the fans.

This has nothing to do with the rich getting richer, etc...PS...Bramer also took money out while the Eagles owner to finance stadium revamps. He is a total hypocrit & anyone bringing republicans into this is a total schmucker without brain power.

Anyone who comes to a football blog & impersonates Rachel Maddow on MSNBC has no cerdibility.

OK enough about the stadium crap. Lets divert the conversation to the 2 latest players added Martin & Lewis (No Pun Intended). RUN RICKY RUN!!!!

martin deal doesnt excite me but the louis one does

DC, way to come across as an ignorant, partisan hack.

Try putting logic & common sense before political party affiliation. For god sakes!

I am from Chicago, and when health Lance Louis is a good player. Still want to see Eric Winston get signed.

Dusty,

Agreed.

If The Stadium Needs One Thing Real Bad!! It Is New Seats!! Those Are The Worst Stadium Seats I Have Ever Been In!! Small, Uncomfortable, No Leg Room, No Arm Room. And Did I Say Uncomfortable!!

I Don't Mind The Rain. Even Though If I Am Going To Spend Over $100, I Would Like To Stay Dry. But The New Bubble Keeps Fans Dry During Rain Games. And If You Are Sitting In The 200's You Won't Get As Wet Because The Top Tier Acts As A Roof.

Dashi, you can't sign the Dominican team because they play for Toronto ...

Reyes, bautista, Encarnacion, Cabrera, etc... I think we have 7 of them.

The Marlins will be ok ... this seems to be their way .. they got a boatload of young players back and some will turn to all stars.

AL East won't be Toronto's that easy. Ricky Romero has turned into Luke Laluche (Bull Durham) and can't find the plate ... he's not breaking north with the team. Going to stay with the A ball team. maybe they should make him wear women's lingerie under his uniform too like Luke.

Lance Louis will be a startign guard for this team ...

If Vaughn has been signed, I like it. He'll probably cost less than McDaniel & we needed to replace him with someone younger & healtheir.

Just like Ireland did with the LB'ers. Lose one & replace him with younger & cheaper. Curious to see terms of the deal. Hopefully it's for 2-3 years instead of a 1 year deal.

I can understand why Louis & Clemmons got a 1 year deal though, they gotta prove themselves.

ill agree 100 percent mark if he gets back to least 75 pct of what he was

Mark in Toronto, Marlins are a disaster. The fans have been stabbed in the back so many times with this team you can't imagine the anger down here. They have less then 5000 season ticket holders and a poll they took actually had Hitler more popular then Loria. He barely beat out Fidel Castro. Till Loria sells this team, the Marlins will be the scourge of SFla.

Mark,

Agreed. Toronto Does Have A lot Of Dominicans Starting. Bautista Is Puerto Rican. Still A Great Ball Player And Leader Of The Team.

The Way I See It The Jays Are Stacked. They Have At Least 4 Legit MLB Starters!! 3 Of Them Have Been A Teams #1 Before. And They Can Hit With The Best Of Them. Plus, Isn't Their Manager Some Teams Ex-Pitching Coach. Plus, The Only Threat In The AL East Is Baltimore This Year.

On The Marlins. The Plus Side Is Stanton Is Still On The Team. And They Are Building The Team The Marlin Way. With Rookies That Develop. And Great Coaching!! But This Is Going To Take Some Time To See It Show Up On The Field Consistently!!

What has Ross done to deserve handouts?

Nobodys had the guts to ask Ross if he would do the renovation if the aid were voted down....


What has Ross done to deserve handouts?

Posted by: Monte | March 28, 2013 at 01:50 PM

What have you done to merit being born?

Dashi, Jose Bautista is indeed a Dominican that went to school in the USA.

Maybe you are confusing himm with Carlos Delgado who holds several team records and also played good ball for the Marlins?

The top 4 for Toronto is very, very good. And Romero at his best would've been the best 5th starter in the MLB. And four of the pitchers were a team's #1 as Morrow outpitched Romero here last year and was the best pitcher we had and faced other team's #1s. However, we are fortunate enough to have JA Happ as insurance and he's pretty good. Certainly better than the majority of 5th starters out there.

Bobby, I can understand the venom towards Loria. he also owned the Montreal Expos at one time here and also bent over that fanbase a bunch too. By the end the Olympic Stadium in Montreal was empty too. he's a dikk.

Sun Life Stadium upgrades are going to create more jobs than Braman's automotive crumbs can do in a 40 year period. I hate hypocrites.

32 Teams In The NFL!! All Except 1 Has Received Public Funding!!

What Makes The Dolphins So Special!! That They Can't Receive Public Funding!! Which The Locals Aren't Going To Pay For Out Of Their Own Pockets!!

But Like Oscar Said, Move It To Hialeah!! Bet The "ALocals" Will Approve Then!!

In a country where people get upset about Obama the socialist and think we are bring overrun with socialism, you would expect them to lose their minds over the socialist values behind corporate welfare. Only in the dumbest of countries would people think that a billionaire should have his private product be paid for by public funds. Only the dumbest of people would say let me pay taxes to build your facility so that I can then pay more taxes to provide the police, security, and roads you need for customers to get to your facility, so that I can then pay thousands of dollars to pay for your players salaries, so that you can then make millions selling me a product I paid for in the first place. We aren't willing to pay teachers a fair wage, we aren't willing to pay for everyone to have healthcare, but we are more than willing to pay taxes and use corporate welfare so that a half-wit who couldn't succeed as the fry guy at McDonalds can earn millions to occasionally block somebody or catch 1 out of 5 passes.

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NO WELFARE FOR THE 4.4 BILLION DOLLAR MAN!!!!!

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Ross is a devout republican. He is against higher income taxes to help the needy but wants the needy in Dade County to help him? ....while the Dade schools, police, and fire departments suffer?

Vaughn was signed to a 2 year deal. According to the Herald, they believe he is an upgrade over McDaniel. The Herald also said management believes that Louis will beat John Jerry out of the guard spot. They believe he is better then Jerry.

I bet this braman guy is paying VOTING NO to bring his unwanted bull**** here and try to steal our Dolphins for a different city.

Vaughn Martin chose the Dolphins over the Patriots and Seahawks. Put that in your pipe and smoke it haters!

Phins78 (@ 1:10 PM)


For starters...
I'm pretty sure that most T&E Systems will 'punch' a Worker out if they should forget.

Yeah...I'm doing a little 'Class Warfare' here...and that's OBVIOUS.

The truth is that I have a problem with this expectation that each NFL city must cough up money or risk losing Football. It's almost like people must pay for the 'privilege' to buy something as well as the product itself.


Here's the bottom line...
Whether the Stadium is funded or not...is irrelevant

The Owner will conclude that they can actually make money within a certain market or he'll leave. He'll adapt his Model to where he is or he'll move to a more favorable environment.

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The MARKET determines how an individual chooses to conduct his affairs...not Stadium funding
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Simply put..
These guys don't open their Books.
Therefore, I consider 'Stadium Fees' to probably be a bit of price gauging. If Superbowl revenue is significant enough for Stephan Ross then he'll find a different way to upgrade his Stadium.


Getting large groups of ordinary people to help is just another game to him.
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Mark in Toronto, from last blog. Jason LaCanfora tweeted last night that he believed Grimes and the Fins would announce a deal in the next few days.

Bobbyd12, I dont know if I'd consider Grimes to the Dolphins a done deal. I remember LaCanfora saying something similar about Long going back to the Dolphins.


Ross is a devout republican. He is against higher income taxes to help the needy but wants the needy in Dade County to help him? ....while the Dade schools, police, and fire departments suffer?

Posted by: TGH | March 28, 2013 at 02:07 PM

And you are a devout fool.

What a pathetic entitlement driven society we live in where people think it's ok to take more $$ from 1 guy to give it to someone else. Surely, that's a better alternative than giving those needy people the tools to help themselves.

LIKE HELPING THEM GET A JOB! 0.4% economic gowth in a country where economists say you need 4-5%. Keep taking more taxes from those greedy rich people who provide jobs, goods n services & see how many more needy people will be around when he moves his business out of town.

That's exactly what you "me me me" losers deserve.

Mark,

You Are Right. I Was Always Told Bautista Was From PR. Chalk Another Great Player To The Baseball Republic. Toronto Is Stacked With Latin Players.

Delgado Was A Good Player. He Was The Hitting Coach for The PR Team At The WBC. And Agreed Was A Good Pro.

My Team Growing Up Was The Blue Jays. And The Mets. The Blue Jays Because They Had A Squad!! T.Fernandez, R.Alomar, J.Carter. And The Mets, Doc Gooden and In NY If You Are Not A Yankee Fan You Are A Mets Fan. I Didn't Become A Marlins Fan Until After High School. And They Won Their Second Title. I Was Never A Fan How They Won The First Title.

The republicans need to stop their assault on the middle class.

Shifting the focus to Braman's hypocrisy doesn't absolve Ross' hypocrisy. Ross has a $4.4B net worth according to Forbes. He publicly supported and helped to finance Romney in the election - the candidate against public handouts, medical care and welfare for needy citizens.

Two months after the election, he's seeking public money to enhance the value of his private stadium property and increase his $4.4 billion dollar net worth via corporate welfare for the rich and un-needy. That my friends, is some ballsy hypocrisy. Why turn to private sector financing or your billion dollar bank accounts when you get it from the gullible public, right?

We have a shameful public transportation system, bridges that get stuck, a rotting water and sewer system, an outdated port which is losing traffic and jobs to other ports and a bunch of other public concerns but by golly, let's give the billionaire guy hundreds of millions of dollars so that he can upgrade his private stadium and bring us a Superbowl once every 5 years! Where is Rick Scott when you need him?

Ross and Braman should battle at Wrestlemania. The winner takes all.
Seriously, this is a perfect example of two wrongs dont make a right. The City should of never approved funds for Marlin's Park. That was wrong. Now everyone is sensitive to the Dolphins plan because of it. That is also wrong. In the end, the Marlins are going to screw us again!


The republicans need to stop their assault on the middle class.

Posted by: TGH | March 28, 2013 at 02:17 PM

You need to stop your jealous "I deserve a handout" morality because some guys make more than me.

Instead of sitting on a blog whining about republicans, why not better yourself to make more money instead of expexcting it to be given to you?

LOSER!

cant say it enough on how big it would be to get grimes

Truth Hurts is obviously a moron. He objects to taking more money from people to give it to 'someone else' but applauds taking more money from people to give it to Ross to build a stadium.

Lets get real for the stupid people. Rich people don't create jobs. Period. People buying products creates jobs. When those people have no money in their pockets they can't buy products and rich people don't hire people for charity; they hire them because they need more people to meet the demand for their products. Ross wants us to pay to create the product and then wants us to pay him for selling the product. Whats Ross creating? Nothing. He is taking money from one group of people and giving it to another group of people and then charging us to do it.

Rich people had their taxes cut under Bush - how many jobs did they create? Rich people had their taxes cut under Obama - how many jobs did they create? Only an abject idiot believes this nonsense about rich people creating jobs while at the same time chanting government doesn't create jobs. Amazingly, the idiots most frequently claiming government doesn't create jobs are always trying to get a government job.

antimatter and tgh are willing to sacrifice our Dolphins in order to fight their own political battles. They don't really give a sh** about the team. They just want to turn DolFANS into braman's personal army.

I bet many naive fans listened to such people in Cleveland just before the real Brownies became the Baltimore Ravens.

Well, if the Dolphins don't get their referendum passed and receive Public funding via the hotel tax, then don't get pissed off when the franchise moves out of South Florida! Ross wants to slowly transfer over ownership of the stadium to the city and thereby insure that the Dolphins stay where they are. Miami is the only city that doesn't use Public funding for their NFL team. This Norman guy is against it because he thinks it will drive the price of owning the team up because he wants to be an NFL owner again...fat chance, Norm!

Ya get what ya pay for...even if it's with other people's money!

Unrealitycehck doesn't have a clue as to what he's talking about. WHAT AN IDIOT!

He just said low income to middle class people provide jobs. However, what he just described is their need for products. They create demand, not JOBS!

Rich people employ the thousands & thousands & thousands of people to meet that demand! They provide those thousands of people with the ability to support their families. Help pay their health insurance, etc...

They pay astronomical taxes to do what they do. The team & the stadium at the end of the day are for the people. Think about the jobs the upgrade could bring. THink about the taxes those employees pay going back in the pool. Think about the additional events that place would attract with upgrades. That's more foot traffic for businesses, hotels, transportation etc...

EVERYONE WINS EXCEPT YOU WHINY JEALOUS LIBBYS.

If Rich people continue to get taxed out the wazoo what is their incentive to employee people & proovide goods n services? THEY DON'T HAVE ONE!

THEY WILL RELOCATE somewhere more profitable & CREATE MORE POVERTY when they leave! That's what you detractors deserve. No team, less employement, more poverty. IE...MORE EXCUSES TO COMPLAIN ABOUT RICH PEOPLE & HOW YOU NEED MORE ASSISTANCE!

The goal of business is to be PROFITABLE! Not to support fat, ignorant, governemt dependant slobs like you w/free handouts cause your jealous others made something with their hard work.

STOP BLAMING OTHER PEOPLE FOR YOUR INABILITIES!

First, there is a significant difference between $58K and $167M. Either sum is unacceptable for individuals with the ability to pay their own way. However, how can there be any comparison on such a basis.

Second, although Stephen Ross now intends to repay the taxpayers for the $167M being "loaned," it is not all that black and white. Essentially, the taxpayers are providing the Dolphins with an interest-free loan over the scope of a period of 30 years. So, I took the current statutory interest rate (4.75% per year), and calculated the amount of interest that would accrue between 2013-2043. How much in interest dollars is the public losing to Mr. Ross and the Dolphins (assuming no repayment prior to 2043)?

$504,950,714.85 -- that is right, even if Ross and the Dolphins repay the $167M loan, the taxpayers will still -- by my calculation -- be losing over half a billion dollars in interest that it otherwise would have earned (and/or could be spent on things more important than renovations to a sport stadium -- like public education, health care, greening the economy, public roads and bridges, etc.).

With so many public needs in an era of shortage and increasing need, how do we justify adopting this referendum?


I love when Rich People Fight.

They sound so douchy counting their pennies.

Just build us a new Stadium with Air Conditioning already.

Tell Ross to put a winning team on the field and the profits from ticket sales will pay for the renovations. The seats have been empty and all A---hole Ross is worried about is getting the Super Bowl in Miami. The idiot needs to worry about getting the Fins to a Super Bowl. By the way the new logo is sh.....t.

Final say from finality.

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